DCS

[DD_fruitbat]

One advantage of CCIP bombing with dumb bombs, is the ability to drop multiple bombs on different targets in one attack run if they are in a line. You can still stay reasonable high CCIP bombing, although the higher you drop the less accurate it will be,

 

 

 

If I'd dropped lower the bombs would of been closer to the pickle point, but they were close enough.

 

 

l

16 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I was doing CCRP the way Chuck's Guide shows it (p. 280-285), without the TPod, in a shallow dive. Probably bound to be less accurate, so I'll give your way a go. ?

 

Without a Tpod, you'll never get the aim point anywhere near as accurate, so the bombing will never be as accurate. You can still use CCRP in a dive by the way.

Edited January 23, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[AndyJWest]

Yeah, I really need to learn how to use the TPod properly. And how to do proper dive bombing like that too. At the moment, I'm more likely to be dropping (in CCIP) from 2,000 ft than 12,000, in a much shallower dive, which does little for survivability.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by AndyJWest

[Bremspropeller]

The best way of getting ahed in DCS - at least that's what I think - is going on a server with a couple of guys on Teamspeak or Discord and haave them talk you through the procedure.

Things like Chuck's guide are great for reading about it AFTER you've done it, but you can skip a lot of steps and still have things work great. You'd have a much easier time, not dpoing it the pedantic ways like Chuck's guide would have you do it.

[DD_fruitbat]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Yeah, I really need to learn how to use the TPod properly. 

 

The TPod is an incredibly powerful tool for ground attack, whether in a Hornet, Viper, A10 etc.. Used in conjunction with mark points (something I'm really looking forward to getting in the Viper in the future) in the Hornet, it means you can find targets from 20 miles plus and then use them on an attack run with Mavericks, something which is great fun, and particularly useful on targets that will fire back.

 

In this vid, I use the TPod to find 2 targets, mark them, and then quickly slave them to 2 Mav F's at max range at 2 SAM sites, so avoiding getting to close to them.

 

 

 

I really enjoy using the TPod, and if its available, always take it if I'm doing any type of ground attack. As an aside, I also really enjoy using the HMCS to look at a target on the ground and press a couple of buttons and have the TPod slaved there in the Hornet and A10, very cool stuff!

 

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

The best way of getting ahed in DCS - at least that's what I think - is going on a server with a couple of guys on Teamspeak or Discord and haave them talk you through the procedure.

Things like Chuck's guide are great for reading about it AFTER you've done it, but you can skip a lot of steps and still have things work great. You'd have a much easier time, not dpoing it the pedantic ways like Chuck's guide would have you do it.

 

I've never read Chucks guides, so there defiantly not required reading!!!!

 

I prefer to watch videos for things I don't know, along with obviously talking and sharing information with other DD's.

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[AndyJWest]

I find videos ok for learning simple stuff, but but it seems easier to be able to look up the specifics for anything complex in a written guide - pausing the game if necessary. Part of the issue is the way every control has multiple functions, depending on context. This is clearly necessary for HOTAS, but must make learning it all harder.

[DD_fruitbat]

I tend to make my own notes whilst watching the videos, but being able to see the process helps me. Everyone learns in different ways though, so whatever works best for an individual is best....

[dburne]

8 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

 

I'm afraid your probably doing something wrong then, CCRP bombing is pretty damn accurate considering they're dumb bombs.

 

Engage barometric altitude hold, turn on the ATC (automatic throttle control), move the Tpod to the target, TDC depress to mark the target and then follow the symbology cues, and from 10000ft you can hit a truck, wind notwithstanding. 

 

 

 

 

Also, I would very much recommend ditching the TDC on an axis, and use a hat switch instead, its way easier imo, at least that's what I've found, I ditched it on an axis ages ago.

 

Yeah even on my new Virpil CM3 throttle I had set up the TDC axis on the button that has a push and two axis.

In trying to learn to launch the Walleyes both with and without the data link pod it was difficult to control the slew.

Think I will have to assign to a four way hat + push. Which I still have couple of spare ones on this new throttle.

 

Not much luck with the Walleyes though, it seems simple enough but I am struggling with it. Did pretty good earlier with the MK 83 and Mk 84 bombs.

Maybe I should just pass on the Walleyes and go for other bombs.

[DD_fruitbat]

Walleye is pretty simple with the TPod, I haven't ever used it without though. Don't really like them as they are huge, and cause loads of asymmetric drag after you've dropped one and still have one left, doesn't help they can only go on the outside pylons.

 

Turn the Walleye on, then make TPod SOI, move your TPod to the target, TDC depress (this will then make the Walleye slave to this point and look for a target there once you uncage it). Then make the Walleye SOI,  press uncage, it may take a little while for the Walleye camera to find the target where its been pointed to by the TPod, but once the cross has disappeared in front of the WE in the hud, it has (or at least something!) and you're ready to fire.

 

GBU's and JDAM's are my favourite bombs. Oh, CBU's are a bundle of fun to, but the F-16 has the best CBU.

Edited January 24, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[AndyJWest]

CCRP level bombing with the TPod, Fruitbat's way. It took me four attempts - dropping two MK83s in each - but I managed to sink a stationary tanker from 14,000 ft. Set up for the third drop.

 

Close, but no cigar. ☹️

 

Fourth drop, kaboom! ?Though I'm not sure it was the bomb that actually hit that did the job on its own, or whether cumulative damage from previous near misses helped.

 

 

 

[DD_fruitbat]

Of course in the real world it wouldn't work, or in DCS if there was any wind in the mission, because I don't believe CCRP can account for wind drift.

 

However, you would take a GBU, only need to drop one, and its almost exactly the same what you have to do, as what you have just done (in fact you can be much less precise on your approach), apart from flicking the laser switch to on, shortly before bomb release.

 

This also means if the ship was moving you could still hit it, by placing it in a point track with the TPod.

Edited January 23, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[AndyJWest]

Yeah, I'd got wind set up in the mission, which probably doesn't help. Though I suspect that in DCS it is at least allowing for the difference between the aircraft heading and track. What it can't do (or shouldn't be able to) is allow for variations in wind direction and velocity during the drop, though they probably don't have a lot of effect.

 

And yes, laser guidance should make things easier. Which is more expensive though, one GBU, or eight MK83s? Got to think of the taxpayers.  ?

 

Edit: Tried it again with no wind. Sunk 3 ships with 4 drops. ?

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by AndyJWest

[Bremspropeller]

Jester and I had spent a nice week out at the Batumi BOQ and O-Club, taking out "Fast Eagle 107" on a little foreign relations goodwill-tour to the georgian coastal town.

On the way back to the boat, he was still smelling like a West Virginian moonshine runner, but taking half a tank's worth of oxygen helped his headache. After levelling off at 20.000ft for the way out, he made some remarks about the peacefulness of the picturesque 8/8ths Stratus overcast below.

I wasn't so amused by the sight - I knew the boat was going to be lurking und the murky white abyss down there.

An indefinate ceiling with an estimated breakout at 900ft and just about a mile of visibility is reported by the boat, but there are tankers overhead.

 

 

On the first pass I actually make an effort to fly what might loosely resemble a Case III approach. Only the Marshal Stack is on the opposite side of where I was expecting it, so my approach after initiating the descent (I actaully got reasonably close to my Push Time) goes down the drink, while fiddling with the ALCS controls at the same time.

The first attempt at Auto-approaching fails, because of clumsy switchology and I bolter and nearly go into the drink because I had somewhat mistrimmed on approach. Down to less than 9000lbs of gas, I decide to go tank - just to be safe. The tankers are clowning around at 170KIAS and all efforts in several configurations (wings AUTO, AUTO with maneuver flaps, AUTO with landing flaps, wings in BOMB) are mootless (that's a combination of moot and fruitless).

I need to get gas on the deck.

 

The second approach works a little better - I'm generally ignoring all the Case III stuff (I'm the only guy around) and I intercept the BRC/ ACLS needles about 25NM out.

Flying the approach in the turbulent weather today isn't all that easy, as hefty gusts are taking me way up or way below my desired altitude. I guess Jester was clinging to his ejection-handle. His joyful cheerfulness all gone and generally awfully quiet there in the back-seat.

 

This time around, the ACLS manages to engage alright, even though there was quite a deviation developing when I was heads down to check on the switches. Press that pinky-button for control-transfer, and you're going for a ride!

The final approach was generally a little low and I recieved a cut-pass grade for #2 wire. Not great, but also not really terrible for the first time around.

 

I decide for getting some gas on the deck and going for a second try - this time in manual mode on those needles alone...

 

The shooter signalling for two pints of ale...

 

The cat takes me back out into the murk.

 

I climb up to 8000ft - above the clouds - and I decide to get away from the boat to set up my approach.

At 30NM slant range, I'm turning around to intercept the BRC and needles. Configuring the airplane is quite a challenge in these conditions and I finally manage to intercept the glideslope from below fairly close to the boat. The groove works out better and I manage to get an (OK) pass for #4 wire.

 

Jester and I decide that's plenty of adrenaline for today and as we were hearing the tankers going RTB during our final approach, there's no use in trying to land without any airbourne fuel available. So after trapping, we signal the marshallers for a parking spot and shut 107 down in 'The Street'. Her plane-captain is more than happy so see her back in one piece.

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Bremspropeller

[busdriver]

9 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

One advantage of CCIP bombing with dumb bombs, is the ability to drop multiple bombs on different targets in one attack run if they are in a line. You can still stay reasonable high CCIP bombing, although the higher you drop the less accurate it will be,

 

IRL, you'd just drop on a single DMPI and not try pickling individually. Even in a high altitude dive (say rolling in from 20K and pickling above 10K), CCIP is much more accurate than CCRP. It was in the F-16A without DBS (doppler beam sharpening) or the snazzy kit the kids get to fly with these days. Cue the old man yelling at clouds or screaming at kids to get off his lawn.

 

Traveling tip for you kids at home...look at your airspeed...don't get slow up there in the low teens.

 

Next challenge @DD_fruitbat, load up whatever CBU and CCRP loft them on a runway...500' AGL 540 KIAS run-in and at about 4 NM smoothly pull up into a 30 degree climb. When the weapons come off roll up (knife edge) and watch them fly formation with you for a while. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by busdriver
checked my weapons guide and it's a 30 release angle

[AndyJWest]

19 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Traveling tip for you kids at home...look at your airspeed...don't get slow up there in the low teens.

 

Yeah, I was aware that bimbling around at 260 KIAS at 14,000 ft probably wasn't optimal. It gave me a bit more time to figure everything out though. ?

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

Next challenge @DD_fruitbat, load up whatever CBU and CCRP loft them on a runway...500' AGL 540 KIAS run-in and at about 4 NM smoothly pull up into a 30 degree climb. When the weapons come off roll up (knife edge) and watch them fly formation with you for a while. 

 

One time in the old sim I lofted a bomb from an F-4U (just by feel, instinct/eyeballing) at an airbase from some godawful distance...a minute later or more I got a notification for a truck kill lol

 

I remember an A-10 guy on the old SimHQ forum talking about looking for a bomb he'd pickled, couldn't find it, then realized he was flying formation with it, and nearly batted it with his wingtip.

 

 

[dburne]

14 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Walleye is pretty simple with the TPod, I haven't ever used it without though. Don't really like them as they are huge, and cause loads of asymmetric drag after you've dropped one and still have one left, doesn't help they can only go on the outside pylons.

 

Turn the Walleye on, then make TPod SOI, move your TPod to the target, TDC depress (this will then make the Walleye slave to this point and look for a target there once you uncage it). Then make the Walleye SOI,  press uncage, it may take a little while for the Walleye camera to find the target where its been pointed to by the TPod, but once the cross has disappeared in front of the WE in the hud, it has (or at least something!) and you're ready to fire.

 

GBU's and JDAM's are my favourite bombs. Oh, CBU's are a bundle of fun to, but the F-16 has the best CBU.

 

Thanks I will have another go with Walleyes again later today.

Can you clarify on how to make TPod or Walleye SOI?

[CanadaOne]

41 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks I will have another go with Walleyes again later today.

Can you clarify on how to make TPod or Walleye SOI?

 

If it gives you any emotional security, even I managed to hit a ship with a Walleye. Mind you, now the pressure is on, eh? 

 

As for SOI, I have a switch on my HOTAS, left panel/right panel/HUD, somethin like that. Can't remember the key strokes it represents though.

 

 

 

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

If it gives you any emotional security, even I managed to hit a ship with a Walleye. Mind you, now the pressure is on, eh? 

 

As for SOI, I have a switch on my HOTAS, left panel/right panel/HUD, somethin like that. Can't remember the key strokes it represents though.

 

 

 

 

Thanks will give it a try.

Was not fully awake earlier, yeah I know I select that with my sensor select switch LOL.

Coffee is a good thing.

[DD_fruitbat]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks I will have another go with Walleyes again later today.

Can you clarify on how to make TPod or Walleye SOI?

 

'Sensor control switch', left and right.

 

Edit, I see coffee helped you remember!

 

Edit 2, @busdriver, challenge accepted ?

Edited January 24, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[DD_fruitbat]

13 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

IRL, you'd just drop on a single DMPI and not try pickling individually. Even in a high altitude dive (say rolling in from 20K and pickling above 10K), CCIP is much more accurate than CCRP. It was in the F-16A without DBS (doppler beam sharpening) or the snazzy kit the kids get to fly with these days. Cue the old man yelling at clouds or screaming at kids to get off his lawn.

 

Traveling tip for you kids at home...look at your airspeed...don't get slow up there in the low teens.

 

Next challenge @DD_fruitbat, load up whatever CBU and CCRP loft them on a runway...500' AGL 540 KIAS run-in and at about 4 NM smoothly pull up into a 30 degree climb. When the weapons come off roll up (knife edge) and watch them fly formation with you for a while. 

 

OK, defiantly not an exact elegant replication, but pretty close I hope! I was going a bit quicker by the time I got to the target area, and by 20 degrees the drop cue happened. Probably should of started pulling up further away in retrospect (or been slower). Not gonna lie, it took me a couple of attempts to get to a spacing for the CBU's for what I wanted, and I may have face planted into the ground once on approach, but 100' run in is more fun, when its only a virtual life on the line!!!!!

 

Did I mention before that I think CBU's are cool!!!!

 

By tomorrow the vid will be in 4K and with the better codec, but takes YouTube ages to process to that stage,

 

 

 

Question, showing my ignorance, what does DMPI stand for? From the context you wrote it, I'm assuming whatever it stands for you meant a single drop profile for all the bombs?

 

What's the next challenge  

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[Hoots]

13 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Yeah, I was aware that bimbling around at 260 KIAS at 14,000 ft probably wasn't optimal. It gave me a bit more time to figure everything out though. ?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more accurate signature Andy, considering he was leaving the thread he sure is intent on stalking you. 

[dburne]

Woohoo I am please to report I am finally dropping Walleyes using Data Link Pod and blowing stuff up!

Then following up with guns in CCIP. Great fun.

I think the "flow" of things is finally starting to sink in a little.

Still much more to learn though.

[AndyJWest]

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

[DD_fruitbat]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

 

You can trim it out mostly, but it needs lots, certainly enough for the autopilot.

Edited January 25, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[busdriver]

11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Question, showing my ignorance, what does DMPI stand for? From the context you wrote it, I'm assuming whatever it stands for you meant a single drop profile for all the bombs?

 

Pronounced "dimpy" it stands for Designated Munition Point of Impact (or Desired Munition Point of Impact...I heard "target arms" AKA Weapons School grads use both). In your mission briefing, everybody gets a specific part of the target to hit. So if the target is an airfield, the first four-ship might drop CBU or Rockeye on specific SAM/AAA positions. The next four-ship might drop MK84s (with nose plugs & tail fuses rather than nose/tail fuses) on taxiway intersections and the runways. The next four-ship might drop MK82s or 84s on parking ramps, revetments or HAS. But in each four-ship pilots have specific assignments where to put their weapons, your specific target is your DMPI. Standard practice would be to drop all your bombs in one pass with a predetermined spacing to destroy your DMPI.

 

On the other hand in very "permissive environments", like in the first Gulf War, when the coalition started picking off Sadam's forces in the desert. Conditions allowed Allied forces the flexibility of orbiting overhead and dropping one bomb at a time, "plinking" (taking out) one tank at a time. A former squadron mate flying F-15E Mudhens described doing this at night with lights on so airplanes wouldn't run into each other, and using their radar's mapping mode to assign targets in succession. 

 

[edit: delete quote]

Quoi? I was just making an observation.

Edited January 25, 2021 by busdriver

[AndyJWest]

@busdriver

 

I think you've misunderstood. Hoots wasn't referring to you, but to the tedious troll my new signature is directed at. I think Hoots just linked that post of mine since that is where he saw the sig.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by AndyJWest

[busdriver]

11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

OK, defiantly not an exact elegant replication, but pretty close I hope! I was going a bit quicker by the time I got to the target area, and by 20 degrees the drop cue happened.

 

I had to go back and watch this again, a couple of times. The HUD symbology is a bit different, and I don't have the DCS F-16 so I have a question for you?

 

Does the DCS F-16 give you the option of programming a Pull-Up range (in feet) under the CCRP option? I ask because CCRP Loft was the way we lofted BDU-33s to simulate how we would actually deliver a B-61.  For the uninitiated, the B-61 was euphemistically called a "shape" or  "blivet" or "bucket of sunshine" or "Warsaw Pact Central Heating."

 

Anyway, for all CCRP Loft deliveries we programmed a Pull-Up range (22100' for CBU in your case). As you approach the programmed range you would press and hold the pickle button down. At that programmed range the pull up cue (horizontal line) would move up the steering cue. So you're centering the vertical line/steering cue and smoothly pulling your FPM (Flight Path Marker) toward the pull up cue. When your FPM horizontal "wings" touched the pull up cue, the cue flashes and the plane's computer releases the weapon. The entire time you've been holding the pickle button down, essentially giving your consent to let the airplane decide when to release the weapon. IOW you don't wait for the FPM to touch the pull up cue to press the pickle button.

 

 

 

[dburne]

10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

 

Yeah I feed in a lot of trim after dropping the first one. 

[DD_fruitbat]

19 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

I had to go back and watch this again, a couple of times. The HUD symbology is a bit different, and I don't have the DCS F-16 so I have a question for you?

 

Does the DCS F-16 give you the option of programming a Pull-Up range (in feet) under the CCRP option? I ask because CCRP Loft was the way we lofted BDU-33s to simulate how we would actually deliver a B-61.  For the uninitiated, the B-61 was euphemistically called a "shape" or  "blivet" or "bucket of sunshine" or "Warsaw Pact Central Heating."

 

Anyway, for all CCRP Loft deliveries we programmed a Pull-Up range (22100' for CBU in your case). As you approach the programmed range you would press and hold the pickle button down. At that programmed range the pull up cue (horizontal line) would move up the steering cue. So you're centering the vertical line/steering cue and smoothly pulling your FPM (Flight Path Marker) toward the pull up cue. When your FPM horizontal "wings" touched the pull up cue, the cue flashes and the plane's computer releases the weapon. The entire time you've been holding the pickle button down, essentially giving your consent to let the airplane decide when to release the weapon. IOW you don't wait for the FPM to touch the pull up cue to press the pickle button.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure we don't have the option of setting a pull up range under CCRP in the DCS F-16. I think its all done dynamically. I had pressed and held down the pickle button as I started the pull up, as I knew the drop  would be within 10 secs or so. There is a horizontal line across the steering cue, that starts to drop, and when that crosses the FPM, drop's the bombs. Don't know if that's a feature of the Block 50, or whether it should be the same as in the one's you flew??? I might ask over on the DCS forums.

 

Its a bit easier to see the CCRP symbology in this vid, as there's less clutter on the HUD, as its a straight and level CCRP GBU drop from 10'000',

 

 

Since I'm showing F-16 vids again, here's what happens when you shoot down two MiG's and you have no missiles left, and their mate is pretty peeved about the whole affair,

 

 

 

 

 

@dburne , @AndyJWest

 

Try laser guided bombing in the Hornet, its pretty simple, especially if you can bomb in CCRP mode, there's not a  lot of extra things you have to do, especially with the GBU 10' & 12's as by default there set to auto lase,

 

 

 

Top tip, don't bother trying to get a point track on a moving vehicle with the TV camera, make sure you change to white hot or black hot.

Edited January 25, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[dburne]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[jg123410]

Hi folks.
 

Was wondering if in its current state DCS has made significant strides in the WW2 arena? Or if there is anything coming soon for DCS that is more in depth WW2?
 

My main interest is a game that is primarily a WW2 combat/flight Sim and to me IL2 BOX is the hands down leader IMHO.
 

I was also curious to know if folks think the graphics are the same in IL2 BOX VS DCS or if one is better?

 

If this is covered somewhere else in this thread and I missed it please let me know.

 

Thanks. jg1234

Edited January 26, 2021 by jg1234

[AndyJWest]

@jg1234

 

I'd say that DCS is making progress as regards WW2, but slowly, and in a rather unfocussed way. As for graphics (and other things) opinions may differ. Two different developers with very different approaches to sims though, and much comes down to personal preference. And I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. 1C-777 are fairly easy going as to what gets discussed on their forums, but debates about whether their competitors produce better products might be stretching things a bit far.

[Bremspropeller]

11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

There is a horizontal line across the steering cue, that starts to drop, and when that crosses the FPM, drop's the bombs. Don't know if that's a feature of the Block 50, or whether it should be the same as in the one's you flew??? I might ask over on the DCS forums.

 

That should have been there right from the start in the early Blocks. CCRP was a thing in A-7s already (Cs, Ds and Es, the latter of which will eventually find it's way into the game).

The pickle-button is just a "launch/ drop consent" loop-closer under those circumstances.

 

Fun Fact:

Mover once told that switches were handled differently in the bombing-pattern between the Air Force and Navy.

In the Air Force (meaning in the Viper, the MudHen might handle things differently), they'd fly around in ARM and switch from CCIP over to CCRP so they wouldn't accidentally drop a bomb, while the Navy in the Hornet always had you go SAFE when not in hot.

[CanadaOne]

8 hours ago, jg1234 said:

Hi folks.
 

Was wondering if in its current state DCS has made significant strides in the WW2 arena? Or if there is anything coming soon for DCS that is more in depth WW2?
 

My main interest is a game that is primarily a WW2 combat/flight Sim and to me IL2 BOX is the hands down leader IMHO.
 

I was also curious to know if folks think the graphics are the same in IL2 BOX VS DCS or if one is better?

 

If this is covered somewhere else in this thread and I missed it please let me know.

 

Thanks. jg1234

 

Mr. West was right; Slowly and rather unfocused. (And more expensive.) On the other hand, all the pieces are there for some serious cross Channel action. A good selection of fighters, AI medium bombers and B-17s(!), good shipping, and of course the Channel Map, the best WWII map there is. Not to mention the Mosquito will be out in within a month, more or less. That's going to be awesome. And the you have to remember the DCS fighters are more detailed than the IL2 fighters. The P-47 cockpit is light years fancier than any IL2 cockpit. And more expensive.

 

The graphics are a funny one. In the air, IL2 wins by a mile. It's a smooth and gorgeous experience without equal. When ground pounding, DCS takes it because the maps are better, and the far superior in-game DCS Mission Editor lets you build more detailed ground scenarios much, much faster and easier than the out-of-game IL2 mission editor.

 

If you want a package deal, it's IL2. If you want a sandbox where you just pick the pieces and do what you want, it's DCS. In the end, you should own both.

[jg123410]

10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

@jg1234

 

I'd say that DCS is making progress as regards WW2, but slowly, and in a rather unfocussed way. As for graphics (and other things) opinions may differ. Two different developers with very different approaches to sims though, and much comes down to personal preference. And I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. 1C-777 are fairly easy going as to what gets discussed on their forums, but debates about whether their competitors produce better products might be stretching things a bit far.

Mr West. I totally agree and see your point. I apologize to all members if my intention was misunderstood. I actually don't own DCS at the moment and am currently just getting more into IL2 BOX having purchased a new PC recently. I was trying to get some more insight on both games. I am a big supporter of the developers and team behind IL2 BOX

 

CanadaOne - I also appreciate your insight. Thanks again everyone for the information. - jg1234

Edited January 26, 2021 by jg1234

[unlikely_spider]

52 minutes ago, jg1234 said:

Mr West. I totally agree and see your point. I apologize to all members if my intention was misunderstood. I actually don't own DCS at the moment and am currently just getting more into IL2 BOX having purchased a new PC recently. I was trying to get some more insight on both games. I am a big supporter of the developers and team behind IL2 BOX

 

CanadaOne - I also appreciate your insight. Thanks again everyone for the information. - jg1234

You can at least download the trainer P-51 and one map for free in DCS to see if it's right for you. That P-51 model is excellent, and is representative of the quality of most DCS modules.

 

And I certainly appreciate the IL-2 mods letting us talk about other sims here, while the other sims' forums do not allow that. Like many simmers, I go back and forth between a few sims depending on what catches my fancy at any given time. But even when I'm not in an IL-2 mood, I still come to these forums because of that, and while I'm here I see that they have added an update to GB or new campaign, and then that gets me back into IL-2. So to me, it is to their benefit.

Edited January 26, 2021 by unlikely_spider

[AndyJWest]

29 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

You can at least download the trainer P-51 and one map for free in DCS to see if it's right for you. That P-51 model is excellent, and is representative of the quality of most DCS modules.

 

Yeah, this. 

 

Truth is, you can try the DCS P-51 for free, and the older IL-2 GB modules for the price of a pizza if you don't mind waiting for a sale. And then decide that the best option is 'both'. When it comes to competition, it's time rather than money that decides what I fly. There are only so many hours in the day. Fancy some WW2 (or WW1) mayhem? IL-2 GB for me. Want to demonstrate yet again that I'll never really master the complexities of modern weaponry, but have fun trying anyway? DCS time. Fancy just bimbling around the world, admiring the scenery? Fire up MSFS.

 

Choice is good. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by AndyJWest

[dburne]

Well I am making great progress - finally - in my learning of the Hornet. I decided it was a do or die deal this time, either I was going to learn it or I was going to hang it up.

Been having a blast learning the weapons, have been dropping bombs and blowing stuff up the last few days.

Still have more to learn but it is finally starting to flow together for me. Launching Maverick 65E's using Jtac to lase the target is a blast.

 

I took a bit of a break from other games to get this done, swore I was going to learn the Hornet and get to where I could actually participate in a single player campaign.

Then I would get back to my other games. Seems it is finally starting to pay off for me. More to go but seeing light at the end of the tunnel finally.

[Chuck_Owl]

On 1/23/2021 at 12:43 PM, Bremspropeller said:

You'd have a much easier time, not dpoing it the pedantic ways like Chuck's guide would have you do it.

 

Depends how you learn. Not sure what you mean by pedantic (I typically stick to the strict minimum and list the optional checks as, well, optional)... but you're entitled to your opinion. I do disagree with you though. 

 

Some video tutorials are great, but there are tons of them that are just terrible for someone that hasn't already sunk 300 hours in DCS,. The bad ones have people do an air start and have the cockpit almost already set up, missing a bunch of steps that a cold & dark start require. The very bad ones go through steps too quickly and mention buttons by acronym but don't show them nor explain what the acronyms mean (i.e. "Set the SPI to your TGP by making the right MFD SOI by pressing DMS DOWN"). And the terribad ones take 20 minutes to explain a procedure that can be listed on a single page. 

 

For a guy like me, video tutorials are hell since they more often than not drag longer than needed. I love the ones by Redkite because they're concise and structured, but most content creators don't bother putting that much effort in their work. I don't think there is a single best way to teach someone, but I've seen and experienced all of these approaches first hand. Some prefer videos, others checklists, others diagrams, flight manuals, others 1 on 1 sessions... but the fact is that all of these approaches have advantages and drawbacks. Videos show a procedure in real time, but you keep having to go back and forth to see something. Checklists are concise but often overlook things that new players might not be familiar with (or altogether skip important details). Diagrams are good for visual learners but lacks the flows of videos. Flight manuals are chock full of information but tend to be really dry reading. 1 on 1 sessions are good for people who like a personal approach, but are inadequate for people who haven't done any reading prior on the aircraft they're trying to learn.

 

My 2 cents. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Chuck_Owl

[AndyJWest]

I think that part of the issue is that it is possible to make a bad YouTube tutorial in twenty minutes - and get people to watch it. Producing any sort of remotely-useful written guide takes longer, and can't be monetised. The value of a teaching resource is at least roughly proportional to the effort put in to making it, in my opinion.