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dburne
7 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

If it gives you any emotional security, even I managed to hit a ship with a Walleye. Mind you, now the pressure is on, eh? :P

 

As for SOI, I have a switch on my HOTAS, left panel/right panel/HUD, somethin like that. Can't remember the key strokes it represents though.

 

 

 

 

Thanks will give it a try.

Was not fully awake earlier, yeah I know I select that with my sensor select switch LOL.

Coffee is a good thing.

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DD_fruitbat
2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks I will have another go with Walleyes again later today.

Can you clarify on how to make TPod or Walleye SOI?

 

'Sensor control switch', left and right.

 

Edit, I see coffee helped you remember!

 

Edit 2, @busdriver, challenge accepted 🤣

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DD_fruitbat
13 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

IRL, you'd just drop on a single DMPI and not try pickling individually. Even in a high altitude dive (say rolling in from 20K and pickling above 10K), CCIP is much more accurate than CCRP. It was in the F-16A without DBS (doppler beam sharpening) or the snazzy kit the kids get to fly with these days. Cue the old man yelling at clouds or screaming at kids to get off his lawn.

 

Traveling tip for you kids at home...look at your airspeed...don't get slow up there in the low teens.

 

Next challenge @DD_fruitbat, load up whatever CBU and CCRP loft them on a runway...500' AGL 540 KIAS run-in and at about 4 NM smoothly pull up into a 30 degree climb. When the weapons come off roll up (knife edge) and watch them fly formation with you for a while. 

 

OK, defiantly not an exact elegant replication, but pretty close I hope! I was going a bit quicker by the time I got to the target area, and by 20 degrees the drop cue happened. Probably should of started pulling up further away in retrospect (or been slower). Not gonna lie, it took me a couple of attempts to get to a spacing for the CBU's for what I wanted, and I may have face planted into the ground once on approach, but 100' run in is more fun, when its only a virtual life on the line!!!!!

 

Did I mention before that I think CBU's are cool!!!!

 

By tomorrow the vid will be in 4K and with the better codec, but takes YouTube ages to process to that stage,

 

 

 

Question, showing my ignorance, what does DMPI stand for? From the context you wrote it, I'm assuming whatever it stands for you meant a single drop profile for all the bombs?

 

What's the next challenge  :dance:

 

 

Edited by DD_fruitbat
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Hoots
13 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Yeah, I was aware that bimbling around at 260 KIAS at 14,000 ft probably wasn't optimal. It gave me a bit more time to figure everything out though. 😃


I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more accurate signature Andy, considering he was leaving the thread he sure is intent on stalking you. 

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dburne

Woohoo I am please to report I am finally dropping Walleyes using Data Link Pod and blowing stuff up!

Then following up with guns in CCIP. Great fun.

I think the "flow" of things is finally starting to sink in a little.

Still much more to learn though.

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AndyJWest

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

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DD_fruitbat
1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

 

You can trim it out mostly, but it needs lots, certainly enough for the autopilot.

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busdriver
11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Question, showing my ignorance, what does DMPI stand for? From the context you wrote it, I'm assuming whatever it stands for you meant a single drop profile for all the bombs?

 

Pronounced "dimpy" it stands for Designated Munition Point of Impact (or Desired Munition Point of Impact...I heard "target arms" AKA Weapons School grads use both). In your mission briefing, everybody gets a specific part of the target to hit. So if the target is an airfield, the first four-ship might drop CBU or Rockeye on specific SAM/AAA positions. The next four-ship might drop MK84s (with nose plugs & tail fuses rather than nose/tail fuses) on taxiway intersections and the runways. The next four-ship might drop MK82s or 84s on parking ramps, revetments or HAS. But in each four-ship pilots have specific assignments where to put their weapons, your specific target is your DMPI. Standard practice would be to drop all your bombs in one pass with a predetermined spacing to destroy your DMPI.

 

On the other hand in very "permissive environments", like in the first Gulf War, when the coalition started picking off Sadam's forces in the desert. Conditions allowed Allied forces the flexibility of orbiting overhead and dropping one bomb at a time, "plinking" (taking out) one tank at a time. A former squadron mate flying F-15E Mudhens described doing this at night with lights on so airplanes wouldn't run into each other, and using their radar's mapping mode to assign targets in succession. 

 

[edit: delete quote]

Quoi? I was just making an observation.

Edited by busdriver
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AndyJWest

@busdriver

 

I think you've misunderstood. Hoots wasn't referring to you, but to the tedious troll my new signature is directed at. I think Hoots just linked that post of mine since that is where he saw the sig.

 

 

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busdriver
11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

OK, defiantly not an exact elegant replication, but pretty close I hope! I was going a bit quicker by the time I got to the target area, and by 20 degrees the drop cue happened.

 

I had to go back and watch this again, a couple of times. The HUD symbology is a bit different, and I don't have the DCS F-16 so I have a question for you?

 

Does the DCS F-16 give you the option of programming a Pull-Up range (in feet) under the CCRP option? I ask because CCRP Loft was the way we lofted BDU-33s to simulate how we would actually deliver a B-61.  For the uninitiated, the B-61 was euphemistically called a "shape" or  "blivet" or "bucket of sunshine" or "Warsaw Pact Central Heating."

 

Anyway, for all CCRP Loft deliveries we programmed a Pull-Up range (22100' for CBU in your case). As you approach the programmed range you would press and hold the pickle button down. At that programmed range the pull up cue (horizontal line) would move up the steering cue. So you're centering the vertical line/steering cue and smoothly pulling your FPM (Flight Path Marker) toward the pull up cue. When your FPM horizontal "wings" touched the pull up cue, the cue flashes and the plane's computer releases the weapon. The entire time you've been holding the pickle button down, essentially giving your consent to let the airplane decide when to release the weapon. IOW you don't wait for the FPM to touch the pull up cue to press the pickle button.

 

 

 

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dburne
10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Just tried the Walleye, without Datalink to keep things simple. Hit 2 out of 2 stationary ships, from 25,000 ft or so. As Fruitbat commented earlier, the asymmetry in weight and drag after dropping the first one is a real issue though, and it seems to be too much for the autopilot to handle. This makes trying to line up for the second one a real pain. Is there some trick to this? Or is it possible to aim both Walleyes in one run, drop the first, switch to the second and drop that? This obviously wouldn't work using the Datalink, but if you are using the built-in seekers only. I suppose it might.

 

Yeah I feed in a lot of trim after dropping the first one. 

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DD_fruitbat
19 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

I had to go back and watch this again, a couple of times. The HUD symbology is a bit different, and I don't have the DCS F-16 so I have a question for you?

 

Does the DCS F-16 give you the option of programming a Pull-Up range (in feet) under the CCRP option? I ask because CCRP Loft was the way we lofted BDU-33s to simulate how we would actually deliver a B-61.  For the uninitiated, the B-61 was euphemistically called a "shape" or  "blivet" or "bucket of sunshine" or "Warsaw Pact Central Heating."

 

Anyway, for all CCRP Loft deliveries we programmed a Pull-Up range (22100' for CBU in your case). As you approach the programmed range you would press and hold the pickle button down. At that programmed range the pull up cue (horizontal line) would move up the steering cue. So you're centering the vertical line/steering cue and smoothly pulling your FPM (Flight Path Marker) toward the pull up cue. When your FPM horizontal "wings" touched the pull up cue, the cue flashes and the plane's computer releases the weapon. The entire time you've been holding the pickle button down, essentially giving your consent to let the airplane decide when to release the weapon. IOW you don't wait for the FPM to touch the pull up cue to press the pickle button.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure we don't have the option of setting a pull up range under CCRP in the DCS F-16. I think its all done dynamically. I had pressed and held down the pickle button as I started the pull up, as I knew the drop  would be within 10 secs or so. There is a horizontal line across the steering cue, that starts to drop, and when that crosses the FPM, drop's the bombs. Don't know if that's a feature of the Block 50, or whether it should be the same as in the one's you flew??? I might ask over on the DCS forums.

 

Its a bit easier to see the CCRP symbology in this vid, as there's less clutter on the HUD, as its a straight and level CCRP GBU drop from 10'000',

 

 

Since I'm showing F-16 vids again, here's what happens when you shoot down two MiG's and you have no missiles left, and their mate is pretty peeved about the whole affair,

 

 

 

 

 

@dburne , @AndyJWest

 

Try laser guided bombing in the Hornet, its pretty simple, especially if you can bomb in CCRP mode, there's not a  lot of extra things you have to do, especially with the GBU 10' & 12's as by default there set to auto lase,

 

 

 

Top tip, don't bother trying to get a point track on a moving vehicle with the TV camera, make sure you change to white hot or black hot.

Edited by DD_fruitbat
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Hi folks.
 

Was wondering if in its current state DCS has made significant strides in the WW2 arena? Or if there is anything coming soon for DCS that is more in depth WW2?
 

My main interest is a game that is primarily a WW2 combat/flight Sim and to me IL2 BOX is the hands down leader IMHO.
 

I was also curious to know if folks think the graphics are the same in IL2 BOX VS DCS or if one is better?

 

If this is covered somewhere else in this thread and I missed it please let me know.

 

Thanks. jg1234

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AndyJWest

@jg1234

 

I'd say that DCS is making progress as regards WW2, but slowly, and in a rather unfocussed way. As for graphics (and other things) opinions may differ. Two different developers with very different approaches to sims though, and much comes down to personal preference. And I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. 1C-777 are fairly easy going as to what gets discussed on their forums, but debates about whether their competitors produce better products might be stretching things a bit far.

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Bremspropeller
11 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

There is a horizontal line across the steering cue, that starts to drop, and when that crosses the FPM, drop's the bombs. Don't know if that's a feature of the Block 50, or whether it should be the same as in the one's you flew??? I might ask over on the DCS forums.

 

That should have been there right from the start in the early Blocks. CCRP was a thing in A-7s already (Cs, Ds and Es, the latter of which will eventually find it's way into the game).

The pickle-button is just a "launch/ drop consent" loop-closer under those circumstances.

 

Fun Fact:

Mover once told that switches were handled differently in the bombing-pattern between the Air Force and Navy.

In the Air Force (meaning in the Viper, the MudHen might handle things differently), they'd fly around in ARM and switch from CCIP over to CCRP so they wouldn't accidentally drop a bomb, while the Navy in the Hornet always had you go SAFE when not in hot.

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CanadaOne
8 hours ago, jg1234 said:

Hi folks.
 

Was wondering if in its current state DCS has made significant strides in the WW2 arena? Or if there is anything coming soon for DCS that is more in depth WW2?
 

My main interest is a game that is primarily a WW2 combat/flight Sim and to me IL2 BOX is the hands down leader IMHO.
 

I was also curious to know if folks think the graphics are the same in IL2 BOX VS DCS or if one is better?

 

If this is covered somewhere else in this thread and I missed it please let me know.

 

Thanks. jg1234

 

Mr. West was right; Slowly and rather unfocused. (And more expensive.) On the other hand, all the pieces are there for some serious cross Channel action. A good selection of fighters, AI medium bombers and B-17s(!), good shipping, and of course the Channel Map, the best WWII map there is. Not to mention the Mosquito will be out in within a month, more or less. That's going to be awesome. And the you have to remember the DCS fighters are more detailed than the IL2 fighters. The P-47 cockpit is light years fancier than any IL2 cockpit. And more expensive.

 

The graphics are a funny one. In the air, IL2 wins by a mile. It's a smooth and gorgeous experience without equal. When ground pounding, DCS takes it because the maps are better, and the far superior in-game DCS Mission Editor lets you build more detailed ground scenarios much, much faster and easier than the out-of-game IL2 mission editor.

 

If you want a package deal, it's IL2. If you want a sandbox where you just pick the pieces and do what you want, it's DCS. In the end, you should own both.

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10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

@jg1234

 

I'd say that DCS is making progress as regards WW2, but slowly, and in a rather unfocussed way. As for graphics (and other things) opinions may differ. Two different developers with very different approaches to sims though, and much comes down to personal preference. And I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. 1C-777 are fairly easy going as to what gets discussed on their forums, but debates about whether their competitors produce better products might be stretching things a bit far.

Mr West. I totally agree and see your point. I apologize to all members if my intention was misunderstood. I actually don't own DCS at the moment and am currently just getting more into IL2 BOX having purchased a new PC recently. I was trying to get some more insight on both games. I am a big supporter of the developers and team behind IL2 BOX

 

CanadaOne - I also appreciate your insight. Thanks again everyone for the information. - jg1234

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unlikely_spider
52 minutes ago, jg1234 said:

Mr West. I totally agree and see your point. I apologize to all members if my intention was misunderstood. I actually don't own DCS at the moment and am currently just getting more into IL2 BOX having purchased a new PC recently. I was trying to get some more insight on both games. I am a big supporter of the developers and team behind IL2 BOX

 

CanadaOne - I also appreciate your insight. Thanks again everyone for the information. - jg1234

You can at least download the trainer P-51 and one map for free in DCS to see if it's right for you. That P-51 model is excellent, and is representative of the quality of most DCS modules.

 

And I certainly appreciate the IL-2 mods letting us talk about other sims here, while the other sims' forums do not allow that. Like many simmers, I go back and forth between a few sims depending on what catches my fancy at any given time. But even when I'm not in an IL-2 mood, I still come to these forums because of that, and while I'm here I see that they have added an update to GB or new campaign, and then that gets me back into IL-2. So to me, it is to their benefit.

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AndyJWest
29 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

You can at least download the trainer P-51 and one map for free in DCS to see if it's right for you. That P-51 model is excellent, and is representative of the quality of most DCS modules.

 

Yeah, this. 

 

Truth is, you can try the DCS P-51 for free, and the older IL-2 GB modules for the price of a pizza if you don't mind waiting for a sale. And then decide that the best option is 'both'. When it comes to competition, it's time rather than money that decides what I fly. There are only so many hours in the day. Fancy some WW2 (or WW1) mayhem? IL-2 GB for me. Want to demonstrate yet again that I'll never really master the complexities of modern weaponry, but have fun trying anyway? DCS time. Fancy just bimbling around the world, admiring the scenery? Fire up MSFS.

 

Choice is good. 

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dburne

Well I am making great progress - finally - in my learning of the Hornet. I decided it was a do or die deal this time, either I was going to learn it or I was going to hang it up.

Been having a blast learning the weapons, have been dropping bombs and blowing stuff up the last few days.

Still have more to learn but it is finally starting to flow together for me. Launching Maverick 65E's using Jtac to lase the target is a blast.

 

I took a bit of a break from other games to get this done, swore I was going to learn the Hornet and get to where I could actually participate in a single player campaign.

Then I would get back to my other games. Seems it is finally starting to pay off for me. More to go but seeing light at the end of the tunnel finally.

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Chuck_Owl
On 1/23/2021 at 12:43 PM, Bremspropeller said:

You'd have a much easier time, not dpoing it the pedantic ways like Chuck's guide would have you do it.

 

Depends how you learn. Not sure what you mean by pedantic (I typically stick to the strict minimum and list the optional checks as, well, optional)... but you're entitled to your opinion. I do disagree with you though. 

 

Some video tutorials are great, but there are tons of them that are just terrible for someone that hasn't already sunk 300 hours in DCS,. The bad ones have people do an air start and have the cockpit almost already set up, missing a bunch of steps that a cold & dark start require. The very bad ones go through steps too quickly and mention buttons by acronym but don't show them nor explain what the acronyms mean (i.e. "Set the SPI to your TGP by making the right MFD SOI by pressing DMS DOWN"). And the terribad ones take 20 minutes to explain a procedure that can be listed on a single page. 

 

For a guy like me, video tutorials are hell since they more often than not drag longer than needed. I love the ones by Redkite because they're concise and structured, but most content creators don't bother putting that much effort in their work. I don't think there is a single best way to teach someone, but I've seen and experienced all of these approaches first hand. Some prefer videos, others checklists, others diagrams, flight manuals, others 1 on 1 sessions... but the fact is that all of these approaches have advantages and drawbacks. Videos show a procedure in real time, but you keep having to go back and forth to see something. Checklists are concise but often overlook things that new players might not be familiar with (or altogether skip important details). Diagrams are good for visual learners but lacks the flows of videos. Flight manuals are chock full of information but tend to be really dry reading. 1 on 1 sessions are good for people who like a personal approach, but are inadequate for people who haven't done any reading prior on the aircraft they're trying to learn.

 

My 2 cents. 

Edited by Chuck_Owl
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AndyJWest

I think that part of the issue is that it is possible to make a bad YouTube tutorial in twenty minutes - and get people to watch it. Producing any sort of remotely-useful written guide takes longer, and can't be monetised. The value of a teaching resource is at least roughly proportional to the effort put in to making it, in my opinion.

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dburne
23 minutes ago, Chuck_Owl said:

 

Depends how you learn. Not sure what you mean by pedantic (I typically stick to the strict minimum and list the optional checks as, well, optional)... but you're entitled to your opinion. I do disagree with you though. 

 

Some video tutorials are great, but there are tons of them that are just terrible for someone that hasn't already sunk 300 hours in DCS,. The bad ones have people do an air start and have the cockpit almost already set up, missing a bunch of steps that a cold & dark start require. The very bad ones go through steps too quickly and mention buttons by acronym but don't show them nor explain what the acronyms mean (i.e. "Set the SPI to your TGP by making the right MFD SOI by pressing DMS DOWN"). And the terribad ones take 20 minutes to explain a procedure that can be listed on a single page. 

 

For a guy like me, video tutorials are hell since they more often than not drag longer than needed. I love the ones by Redkite because they're concise and structured, but most content creators don't bother putting that much effort in their work. I don't think there is a single best way to teach someone, but I've seen and experienced all of these approaches first hand. Some prefer videos, others checklists, others diagrams, flight manuals, others 1 on 1 sessions... but the fact is that all of these approaches have advantages and drawbacks. Videos show a procedure in real time, but you keep having to go back and forth to see something. Checklists are concise but often overlook things that new players might not be familiar with (or altogether skip important details). Diagrams are good for visual learners but lacks the flows of videos. Flight manuals are chock full of information but tend to be really dry reading. 1 on 1 sessions are good for people who like a personal approach, but are inadequate for people who haven't done any reading prior on the aircraft they're trying to learn.

 

My 2 cents. 

 

 

I find your guides invaluable and very much appreciate all the work you put into them, as well as keeping them updated!

I am currently using your Hornet guide extensively whilst I am learning the Hornet. I use a custom kneeboard I created with Kneeboard Builder so I could display the pertinent section of the guide I was working on, in my VR Headset so I never have to remove it whilst I am learning and referencing your guide.

 

 

 

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Bremspropeller
30 minutes ago, Chuck_Owl said:

 

Depends how you learn. Most video tutorials I see are of poor quality, apart for a few exceptions. Not sure what you mean by pedantic (I typically stick to the strict minimum and list the optional checks as, well, optional)... but you're entitled to your opinion. Some video tutorials are great, but there are tons of them that are just terrible for someone that hasn't already sunk 300 hours in DCS,. The bad ones have people do an air start and have the cockpit almost already set up, missing a bunch of steps that a cold & dark start require. The very bad ones go through steps too quickly and mention buttons by acronym but don't show them nor explain what the acronyms mean (i.e. "Set the SPI to your TGP by making the right MFD SOI by pressing DMS DOWN"). And the terribad ones take 20 minutes to explain a procedure that can be listed on a single page. 

 

This wasn't intended as a criticism of your work, Chuck. Not in any way, shape or form.

 

It's just as you said, people learn differently. And many are just intimidated by a pdf that's 500 pages long, when you tell them "read this, it's the best source". So intimidated they won't even bother taking a look or won't even get the airplane in the first place, because they feel it's a drag learning about stuff in their spare time.

Others are different and they learn better by reading first and trying then.

 

I have found for myself (and this certainly includes others) that being on voicecomms and having somebody talk me through a procedure a few times and reading your guide afterwards yields the best results for me.

 

I agree that many youtube tutorials are bad, but there are also a few ones that are okay to good. In the end, everyone has to find the right mix for oneself.

 

 

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ZachariasX
43 minutes ago, Chuck_Owl said:

For a guy like me, video tutorials are hell since they more often than not drag longer than needed.

I just want to tell you how much it helps me having your guides. Although I do like various youtube tutorials, for me they are just a starter to get the flow of sequences, a first orientation. Once I have that, I kind if know what to expect when looking up the pdf guides. Having one that doesn‘t get lost in details and is focused in the purpose, namely getting you to know what you are supposed to be doing, is just perfect.

 

Thank you for this!!

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Gambit21

So aside from Chucks PDF  guide, who makes the best videos? If I needed to learn the Hornet from scratch (and I do) where’s the best place to go? I assume the ED vids are in there somewhere.

 

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dburne
28 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

So aside from Chucks PDF  guide, who makes the best videos? If I needed to learn the Hornet from scratch (and I do) where’s the best place to go? I assume the ED vids are in there somewhere.

 

 

Wags has some good videos of the Hornet that I found helpful.

I usually go there first, then to Chuck's Guide, then check out some videos from RedKite I believe it is.

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DD_fruitbat
1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

So aside from Chucks PDF  guide, who makes the best videos? If I needed to learn the Hornet from scratch (and I do) where’s the best place to go? I assume the ED vids are in there somewhere.

 

 

For the Hornet in particular I would recommend RedKites vids as very good guides. ED's and Wags (often the same) are obviously pretty good too.

 

10 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That should have been there right from the start in the early Blocks. CCRP was a thing in A-7s already (Cs, Ds and Es, the latter of which will eventually find it's way into the game).

The pickle-button is just a "launch/ drop consent" loop-closer under those circumstances.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about CCRP in general, more specifically whether in the later blocks, it dynamically works out the drop point on CCRP loft bombing as it seems to do in DCS block 50, rather than needing to enter a pull up range as was in the earlier models as, @busdriver alluded too.

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CanadaOne
59 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

So aside from Chucks PDF  guide, who makes the best videos? If I needed to learn the Hornet from scratch (and I do) where’s the best place to go? I assume the ED vids are in there somewhere.

 

 

Ralfidude made some excellent! tutorials for the A-10C II, not sure if he did anything for the F-18.

 

I'm one of those weirdo types who like the Grim Reapers videos, but I know some people really don't.

2 hours ago, Chuck_Owl said:

 

Depends how you learn. Not sure what you mean by pedantic (I typically stick to the strict minimum and list the optional checks as, well, optional)... but you're entitled to your opinion. I do disagree with you though. 

 

Some video tutorials are great, but there are tons of them that are just terrible for someone that hasn't already sunk 300 hours in DCS,. The bad ones have people do an air start and have the cockpit almost already set up, missing a bunch of steps that a cold & dark start require. The very bad ones go through steps too quickly and mention buttons by acronym but don't show them nor explain what the acronyms mean (i.e. "Set the SPI to your TGP by making the right MFD SOI by pressing DMS DOWN"). And the terribad ones take 20 minutes to explain a procedure that can be listed on a single page. 

 

For a guy like me, video tutorials are hell since they more often than not drag longer than needed. I love the ones by Redkite because they're concise and structured, but most content creators don't bother putting that much effort in their work. I don't think there is a single best way to teach someone, but I've seen and experienced all of these approaches first hand. Some prefer videos, others checklists, others diagrams, flight manuals, others 1 on 1 sessions... but the fact is that all of these approaches have advantages and drawbacks. Videos show a procedure in real time, but you keep having to go back and forth to see something. Checklists are concise but often overlook things that new players might not be familiar with (or altogether skip important details). Diagrams are good for visual learners but lacks the flows of videos. Flight manuals are chock full of information but tend to be really dry reading. 1 on 1 sessions are good for people who like a personal approach, but are inadequate for people who haven't done any reading prior on the aircraft they're trying to learn.

 

My 2 cents. 

 

Montreal! :drinks:

 

I grew up in NDG. Ever eat at Cosmos?

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Chuck_Owl

The one on Sherbrooke? Never had the chance.

 

I think my all-time favorite spot in town was Che Churros. Those churros are amazing.

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busdriver
33 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

I wasn't talking about CCRP in general, more specifically whether in the later blocks, it dynamically works out the drop point on CCRP loft bombing as it seems to do in DCS bock 50, rather than needing to enter a pull up range as was in the earlier models as, @busdriver alluded too.

 

A not so minor point of order. Pull-Up range is what provides the steering cue in order to loft a bomb correctly, so you meet the "manual delivery" parameters in case the green stuff goes away. Essential for special weapons, not necessary for conventional weapons where you could use Backup Dive Toss with the red reticle. If you are making a laydown delivery or a medium altitude standoff delivery, there is no Pull-Up range to program. You demonstrated that it is entirely possible to loft once you are inside the dynamic range of the weapon based on your speed and altitude. That's why your bombs came off at 20 degrees of climb rather than 30 degrees. Otherwise you could safely drive straight and level over the target, as long as you meet fuse arm and safe escape parameters. I suspect this is what you intuit, but wanted to clarify. 

 

So why doesn't DCS include a Pull-Up range parameter? If I had to speculate, it might be that IRL the only guys that used a Pull-Up range were those tasked with nuclear weapons delivery. Lofting CBU was an option in our weapon's guide, but there was no training for that. Meaning there was no range event to simulate CBU loft deliveries, or qualification to maintain. Sometime in the last ~20 years, F-16 pilots were freed from the nuclear mission. Perhaps IRL the fire control software does not include programming options specifically for loft deliveries. Or perhaps it's just something DCS omitted. 

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Gambit21

I haven’t messed with it, but I do know that the various modes etc are not yet finished. So maybe it’s coming?

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CanadaOne
1 hour ago, Chuck_Owl said:

The one on Sherbrooke? Never had the chance.

 

I think my all-time favorite spot in town was Che Churros. Those churros are amazing.

 

Yeah, right by Royal. Too late, I'd afraid, they closed. But it was historic. Best greasy breakfast on Earth.

 

Don't know Churos, but I've been out of Montreal for many years.

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DD_fruitbat
1 hour ago, busdriver said:

 

A not so minor point of order. Pull-Up range is what provides the steering cue in order to loft a bomb correctly, so you meet the "manual delivery" parameters in case the green stuff goes away. Essential for special weapons, not necessary for conventional weapons where you could use Backup Dive Toss with the red reticle. If you are making a laydown delivery or a medium altitude standoff delivery, there is no Pull-Up range to program. You demonstrated that it is entirely possible to loft once you are inside the dynamic range of the weapon based on your speed and altitude. That's why your bombs came off at 20 degrees of climb rather than 30 degrees. Otherwise you could safely drive straight and level over the target, as long as you meet fuse arm and safe escape parameters. I suspect this is what you intuit, but wanted to clarify. 

 

Understood, and makes sense.

 

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

So why doesn't DCS include a Pull-Up range parameter? If I had to speculate, it might be that IRL the only guys that used a Pull-Up range were those tasked with nuclear weapons delivery. Lofting CBU was an option in our weapon's guide, but there was no training for that. Meaning there was no range event to simulate CBU loft deliveries, or qualification to maintain. Sometime in the last ~20 years, F-16 pilots were freed from the nuclear mission. Perhaps IRL the fire control software does not include programming options specifically for loft deliveries. Or perhaps it's just something DCS omitted. 

 

Well, ED have long stated there will be no nuclear weapons in DCS, which I get (that would be 'fun' in multiplayer!), so maybe that's the reason its omitted, or that it may just be the later blocks don't have it anymore as they aren't flying that mission profile anymore, I honestly have no idea.

 

The DCS F-16 is much further behind in terms of development (being much newer) than the FA/18 which is now not far from full release out of beta, when that does happen, some of that development is going to shift to the F-16, there's still lots of toys to come to it, and for me to look forward to, so who knows what's down the line, it may come anyway.

 

This is a skinny list of the proposed systems and loadouts for the DCS F-16,

 

Spoiler

SUBJECT TO CHANGE

 

Our Viper will be an F-16C with the Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP) upgrade. We feel this to be the most versatile version of the F-16 with capabilities for SEAD, precision attack, close air support, and of course air-to-air. We will be taking great care though to develop a very accurate simulation of the F-16C Block 50 operated by the United States Air Force and Air National Guard circa 2007.

 

For this project, we are striving to create a very authentic simulation of this particular aircraft at a specific point in time. We have no desire to create a Frankenstein's Monster that combines multiple F-16C versions from different time periods.

 

Core systems of our F-16C include:

 

 

  • F-110-GE-129 turbofan engine
  • AN/APG-68(V)5 multi-mode radar
  • AN/ALR-56M Radar Warning Receiver
  • AN/ALQ-131/184 ECM pods
  • CCIP (Common Configuration Implementation Program) update
  • ALE-47 countermeasure system

 

 

This will be a massive project, so we will separate it into two phases: Phase 1 Early Access release and then Phase 2 Product Sustainment.

 

Phase 1 Early Access:

 

 

  • Color Multifunction Display (CMFD) symbology, Horizontal Situation Display (HSD) format, and Head-up Display (HUD) symbology
  • Digitally TACAN and Electronic Horizontal Situation Indicator (EHSI)
  • RWS, SAM, and ACM A/A radar modes
  • BDU-33, BDU-50LD/HD, Mk-82LDGP, Mk-82AIR, Mk-84LDGP, CBU-87 CEM, and CBU-97 SFW unguided bombs
  • 2.75” rockets LAU-68 and LAU-131
  • Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS)
  • AIM-9L/M/P/X Sidewinder
  • AIM-120B/C AMRAAM
  • M61A1 20mm cannon

 

 

First skin will be the 55th FS at Shaw AFB.

 

Phase 2 Product Sustainment:

 

 

  • TWS A/A radar mode
  • Multifunctional Information Distribution System (MIDS)
  • Link 16 Data Link
  • A/G radar modes
  • AGM-65D/G/H/K Maverick
  • AGM-88C HARM
  • AN/ASQ-213 HARM Targeting System (HTS)
  • AN/AAQ-28(V) LITENING targeting pod
  • GBU-10, GBU-12, GBU-24A/B laser-guided bombs
  • BRU-57/A Smart Rack
  • CBU-103 CEM and CBU-105 SFW Inertially Aided Munitions (IAM)
  • GBU-31/A and GBU-38/B JDAM
  • AGM-154A and AGM-154C JSOW
  • Integration of the JHMCS with the HARM Targeting System (HTS), Link 16, and AIFF
  • Night Vision Goggles (NVG)
     
  • ALE-50 towed decoy

 

 

EDIT, quickly searching the DCS forums, and loft cues aren't implemented yet, so sounds like we will be getting them at some point.

Edited by DD_fruitbat
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CanadaOne

Got the skinny over at Stormbirds that the update today includes APKWS laser rockets for the Harrier.

 

Me I like dat! :biggrin:

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Tektolnes
17 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

So aside from Chucks PDF  guide, who makes the best videos? If I needed to learn the Hornet from scratch (and I do) where’s the best place to go? I assume the ED vids are in there somewhere.

 

RedKite, Spudknocker and Overkill. I like the Overkill ones the most even though they maybe don't have as many views as the other two guys - goes from scratch all the way up over 38 tutorials.

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kendo

I've also been making a more determined effort to learn the F-18 after getting it in the lock-down sale last year.

 

Belatedly discovered Chuck's Guide a few months back, and have found it to be absolutely the best resource for understanding all those systems. The clarity, depth, and quality of the images has helped me get a better grip on all that complexity. Still at a comparatively early stage, and feels like I could keep at this for the next year and still not master everything...but i'm making progress. 

 

Totally different experience with these complex modern aircraft in DCS compared to Great Battles/Flying Circus - need to slow things right down and take it one step at a time, but rewarding too. Progress right now is measured by learning another sub-system, rather than flying a successful mission or completing a career.

   

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unlikely_spider
21 minutes ago, kendo said:

I've also been making a more determined effort to learn the F-18 after getting it in the lock-down sale last year.

 

Belatedly discovered Chuck's Guide a few months back, and have found it to be absolutely the best resource for understanding all those systems. The clarity, depth, and quality of the images has helped me get a better grip on all that complexity. Still at a comparatively early stage, and feels like I could keep at this for the next year and still not master everything...but i'm making progress. 

 

Totally different experience with these complex modern aircraft in DCS compared to Great Battles/Flying Circus - need to slow things right down and take it one step at a time, but rewarding too. Progress right now is measured by learning another sub-system, rather than flying a successful mission or completing a career.

   

That's why the Harrier trainings that come with the module are so great. Broken down by section, then even most of those have a "long" and a "short" version. How are the training missions that come with the Hornet?

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