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Tactical Air War

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@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

Edited by SCG_X-Man
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1 hour ago, SCG_X-Man said:

@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

 

Suuure, lets just swap them F-4's to F-2's. 

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2 hours ago, SCG_X-Man said:

@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

Well, it happens the other way too. Map #2 and #7 the Germans have one more fighter (max) than the Russians.  Only in map #6 do the Russians have one more fighter (max) than the Germans.  If anything, there should be one more map where the Russians have an extra fighter if you want to make it even! :)

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Fighter comparison is a red herring anyhow. Russians have inferior equipment right up on the time they get La-5FN, where they can start to claim superiority in some aspects of the performance metrics that, you know, matters. 

 

And yet none of that really matters in a big picture. I would argue that if Russians got nothing but LaGG-3 without 23mm and Mig-3 across all 8 maps, the outcomes of the campaigns would not really be effected in any tangible way. 

 

What matters is the power of the tanks, multiplied by the integrity of the Depots and subtracted by the effectiveness of the enemy defenses multiplied by the enemy depot integrity. 

This all is for the simple reason that 2/3 of the server run time, the available player counts are nowhere near big enough to chop down defenses or incoming tanks that has been seen from one side of the team this TAW to make any dent in the outcome dictated by the TAW script. At best, one must run as fast as he can just to stay still. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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Is it me or have the Red's been uncoordinated this entire campaign, maybe that is why they are having a hard time? Even with total air superiority they seem to be foundering... Yes I know a lot more people decided to go blue this campaign but still...

Screenshot (37).png

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55 minutes ago, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

Is it me or have the Red's been uncoordinated this entire campaign, maybe that is why they are having a hard time? Even with total air superiority they seem to be foundering... Yes I know a lot more people decided to go blue this campaign but still...

 

 

 

facepalm.jpg

 

edit.

Just for contexts, that screenshot was taken about 10 minutes before map end (that the screenshot conveniently omit) where blue team quit after well, nuking all they needed to nuke. 

 

The GMT 06:00 +-2hours is the only timezone bracket where reds have more people than blues, but that is the usual 5:10 ratio. 

In contrast, when blue timezone spikes, some 12 hours later, the numbers look more like 50:30 or worse. 

 

Please spare us the fallacious number arguments of "how VVS cant undo all the stuff in 6 hours with 10 men  flight persons that was done to them rest of the 18 hours".

 

For additional contexts, actual numbers 40 minutes later

numbers.jpg

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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4 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

facepalm.jpg

 

edit.

Just for contexts, that screenshot was taken about 10 minutes before map end (that the screenshot conveniently omit) where blue team quit after well, nuking all they needed to nuke. 

 

The GMT 06:00 +-2hours is the only timezone bracket where reds have more people than blues, but that is the usual 5:10 ratio. 

In contrast, when blue timezone spikes, some 12 hours later, the numbers look more like 50:30 or worse. 

 

Please spare us the fallacious number arguments of "how VVS cant undo all the stuff in 6 hours with 10 men  flight persons that was done to them rest of the 18 hours".

 

For additional contexts, actual numbers 40 minutes later

numbers.jpg

Sorry, I thought I would add a little humour to the VSS vs Lufty debate. I normally fly VSS but chose to test my newly purchased G6. Having not scored a single air kill in the last three campaigns I thought I would go the automatic route. Sadly so far no kills which indicates  I am just a sloppy pilot lacking SA and I should just stick to attackers and bombing :)

 

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23 minutes ago, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

Sorry, I thought I would add a little humour to the VSS vs Lufty debate. I normally fly VSS but chose to test my newly purchased G6. Having not scored a single air kill in the last three campaigns I thought I would go the automatic route. Sadly so far no kills which indicates  I am just a sloppy pilot lacking SA and I should just stick to attackers and bombing :)

 

Bombing and attacking is arguably 10X more useful than being a fighter jockey. Dont sell yourself short :biggrin:

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Some highlights from the latest TAW campaign. I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong...

 

Warning: Terrible gunnery and real swastikas.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Darbzy said:

I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong

Hi Darbzy; this is Edition is TAW XIV (14). On previous page i wrote edition numbers with end dates; also if you check the Manual on main page admins added the changelog with links to the start of each edition. S!

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15 hours ago, SCG_X-Man said:

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

You could always get a M.C.202 to match the LaGG.

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:01 PM, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

 

So you lose the campaign. For me it is not about who wins, but a simulated war where losses matter. So we fight to the bitter end :)

 

 

 

I have the ACG historical campaign for that. I'm here because I'm too old for contact team sports.

 

This game is over. Waiting for the reset. Going Blue next one.

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15 hours ago, Darbzy said:

Some highlights from the latest TAW campaign. I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong...

 

Warning: Terrible gunnery and real swastikas.

 

 

 

Great vid! Loved the addition of a little Megadeth in the end as well!

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nice video.  

 

Will be nice see some Flack 88 shotings your bombers.... only for take the idea you are bombing something defended. But i imagine if flack88 hit some Bomber we have to replace this guns... then is ok. 

 

I hate view Ju-52 capturing bases.... the most unnfair situation of this competition.... no doubt.... 51% of damage, drop zone far of AAA , and majority of caputures made whit good favorable quorums...  but this is the especial TAW " blues must win " , i hope on next edition , things take more sense. 

 

thx for share !

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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

nice video.  

 

Will be nice see some Flack 88 shotings your bombers.... only for take the idea you are bombing something defended. But i imagine if flack88 hit some Bomber we have to replace this guns... then is ok. 

 

I hate view Ju-52 capturing bases.... the most unnfair situation of this competition.... no doubt.... 51% of damage, drop zone far of AAA , and majority of caputures made whit good favorable quorums...  but this is the especial TAW " blues must win " , i hope on next edition , things take more sense. 

 

thx for share !


Next campaign Hydra (also known as the "9k Sky Knights") will fly blue again. So red gets a chance and can attack with impunity again.

btw a 88 hit my A-20 at 6k the other day. I flew back 100km to the airfield. Good Wright radials.

Edited by DerSheriff

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:)

I prefer have hydra pilots on my side, I know about your Low patrols, and are a true treath for my Il2.

 

Nice to know sometimes flack 88 hit something because i have the sensation , this flack at high level,  are only for take a little inmersion.... and i think on the video will be nice see around 88 explosions.

 

Im not sure... but maybe is a internet connexion problem?? i have a very poor connexion... i think is possible i miss a lot of flack explosions... sometimes teamsquad alert my about Flack 88 around and i dont see nothing... the other options is due my age i have to visit the oculist.



 

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This was the first campaign I flew the Ju52 and I must admit, it can have a devastating effect on the map. I don't have any screen shots of the map before and after, but when you capture an airfield with 60 paratroopers you not only capture the airfield but wipe out the nearby defensive positions and any enemy tanks as the whole area becomes blue when the map flips. It's way smarter for the Blues to use these aircraft to capture airfields rather than waste blood and treasure hitting tank columns and defensive positions.

Also, can the Reds see the drop zones? I can't recall if they can or not. Catching Ju52s dropping paras would be a fighter pilots wet dream, but if the Reds can't see the drop zones on the map then CAPing them would require a lot of guess work and be pretty ineffective.

As for the lack of AAA, I had to plan the flights very carefully to avoid it all. Some of the sorties were quite challenging with defensive positions all around the drop zone.

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22 hours ago, Darbzy said:

Some highlights from the latest TAW campaign

Awesome vid as always Darbzy. 

 

I really need to raise my multi-engine game. I feel like it really is the way to impact on map results.

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1 minute ago, DerSheriff said:


You cant. You have to guess where they are.

 

I thought so. I understand that in real life the enemy wouldn't know which area you are using as a DZ, but perhaps to make it fairer the Reds should see a few 'potential DZs' - with one being the actual one - so they can try and patrol them. I'm sure if there was a para threat in real life any commander worth half his salt would find potential DZs and defend and/or patrol them.

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Currently when the reds concentrated on depots and shut them within few hours and they are winning current map.

 

Yea, so all the whining that conditions are biased, the players blance is so bad (although it was much better currently than many other campaigns I remeber and didnt changed for worse (except the last campaign which in that respect was significantly different to all others) - so no significant change here)…

 

Form what i noticed some plyers are whining no matter the side they play, and for them its always the machine and conditions and not the man and play style (concetration of efforts on objectives instead of pursuing the streaks…) 

 

 

Edited by Carl_infar

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It's thanks to an insane 8-hour effort by a ragtag group of a handful of players that it was managed, and in part just through luck. If anything it does show how madly overpowered supply depot destruction is though, and how impossible they are to defend even though several 109s and 190s were engaging the bombers.

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But seeing now the reds in a map where they are on the "offense"...we might want to take a look on that mechanic.
It might be too pronounced especially in conjunction with the depots. If then player numbers are favoring a team its  a piece of cake to roflstomp the remaining tanks.

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6 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Currently when the reds concentrated on depots and shut them within few hours and they are winning current map.

 

Yea, so all the whining that conditions are biased, the players blance is so bad (although it was much better currently than many other campaigns I remeber and didnt changed for worse (except the last campaign which in that respect was significantly different to all others) - so no significant change here)…

 

Form what i noticed some plyers are whining no matter the side they play, and for them its always the machine and conditions and not the man and play style (concetration of efforts on objectives instead of pursuing the streaks…) 

 

 

 

The only thing that this map shows is that red/blue only needs to destroy depots when they are on an offensive map. And like i said previously already, it is impossible to defend depots. 

 

I think the TAW changes (defensive, counter offensive etc.) did more harm than good to the game. It would probably be easier to revert this change instead of trying to fine tune it.

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1 hour ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

 And like i said previously already, it is impossible to defend depots. 

 

 

And why is it a bad thing?

 

should be the columns be possible to defend, or the defence positions or airfields?

 

all in all those are the targets which one side must destroy and the other defend so it all comes down to resources assigned to each task and decisions made by each team of what to defend and attack.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

Currently when the reds concentrated on depots and shut them within few hours and they are winning current map.

 

Yea, so all the whining that conditions are biased, the players blance is so bad

Sure, and constant team balance 2:1 or more in favour of RED team with organized groups for the first time in the campaign has nothing to do with it. Very strange, we can concentrate in something thanks to numbers, due to this we are wining for the first time, but you say numbers have nothing to do with it. :crazy:

 

 

Edited by ECV56_Chimango
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4 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

And why is it a bad thing?

 

should be the columns be possible to defend, or the defence positions or airfields?

 

all in all those are the targets which one side must destroy and the other defend so it all comes down to resources assigned to each task and decisions made by each team of what to defend and attack.

 

 

 

Disproportional resources though. You might need 10 fighters around a depot to stop 2-3 bombers without escort, and considering the impact destruction of depots has on the game it's simply not sensible.

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1 hour ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

Sure, and constant team balance 2:1 or more in favour of RED team with organized groups for the first time in the campaign has nothing to do with it. Very strange, we can concentrate in something thanks to numbers, due to this we are wining for the first time, but you say numbers have nothing to do with it. :crazy:

 

 

Could also be that the numbers imbalance is due to blue player not being so eager to fly when they only have three airfields left. Atleast that´s what held me off from flying many time this TAW.

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Hi! I am very noob but I am thinking about jumping into this server. It looks quite more complex than WoL so I am a bit afraid that I do not know how to navigate without GPS or know what to defend/attack.

 

Any tips for a beginner?

 

Thanks!

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13 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

Hi! I am very noob but I am thinking about jumping into this server. It looks quite more complex than WoL so I am a bit afraid that I do not know how to navigate without GPS or know what to defend/attack.

 

Any tips for a beginner?

 

Thanks!

Just use Google or YouTube search. I typed "il2bos how to navigate".

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, =L/R=Mad_Mikhael said:

Just use Google or YouTube search. I typed "il2bos how to navigate".

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I will give it a try to the server, looks great.

 

Can also someone explain me the meaning of the available planes chart in my profile? I have read the manual but it is not fully clear to me. If I use all these planes, I won't be able to fly the current mission anymore, right?

 

UzHQTu6.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

If I use all these planes, I won't be able to fly the current mission anymore, right?

 

Yes, but after a mission, you will receive "(...) one basic aircraft marked as +1 after each mission if he doesn’t have any of such type".

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16 hours ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

Sure, and constant team balance 2:1 or more in favour of RED team with organized groups for the first time in the campaign has nothing to do with it. Very strange, we can concentrate in something thanks to numbers, due to this we are wining for the first time, but you say numbers have nothing to do with it. :crazy:

 

 

its not completly true. 

The main attack on the depots was done within time frame (eu morning to early noon) when trought out the entire campaign Red tend to have bigger numbers. Not just the yesterdays map as can be easyly seen on the graphs. Similar situation we have also today when during the morning one blue depo was shut. Anyway You dont even need bigger numbers to shut it . What You need is the coordinated effort on the most important for each situation objective. (where if needed local superioirty can be easyly won - which for destruction of the depos is not even needed if one doesnt care for the personal streak)

 

So it's about the priorities and focusing of effort (team work in general). If this tactic would be followed since the beginning by the red the campaign would look much different.

 

Anyway currectly blue should continue the tactic that brought them the win (shut the depos as primary target and later switch to others)

Edited by Carl_infar
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5 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

when trought out the entire campaign Red tend to have bigger numbers

Absolutely not true, reds never had a decisive quorum advantage prior to maps #7 and #8.  If there was any "advantage", it was during few moments and without many pilots. We'll never agree on this fact, which is basic to discuss anything beyond it.
 

All the rest you say, any experienced guy will agree and it's known for ages: is not about planeset or any of those things most people complaint about; it's all about achieving air superiority on the most important objectives, with coordinated pilots/groups. The side with better teams and/or organized pilots will get the victory; but for this it's essential not to have a big imbalance in teams

 

So IMO most important aspects to have in mind for future editions are not planeset or anything like that, but first of all:

 

1. making some kind of system to prevent team imbalance higher than 1,5:1 . When people gets outnumbered big time map after map and realize they can´t win, they lose interest. It's been proven now and before.
 

2. making sure the wining conditions are balanced between the importance of depots and tank columns.

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5 hours ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

Absolutely not true, reds never had a decisive quorum advantage prior to maps #7 and #8.  If there was any "advantage", it was during few moments and without many pilots. We'll never agree on this fact, which is basic to discuss anything beyond it.
 

All the rest you say, any experienced guy will agree and it's known for ages: is not about planeset or any of those things most people complaint about; it's all about achieving air superiority on the most important objectives, with coordinated pilots/groups. The side with better teams and/or organized pilots will get the victory; but for this it's essential not to have a big imbalance in teams

 

So IMO most important aspects to have in mind for future editions are not planeset or anything like that, but first of all:

 

1. making some kind of system to prevent team imbalance higher than 1,5:1 . When people gets outnumbered big time map after map and realize they can´t win, they lose interest. It's been proven now and before.
 

2. making sure the wining conditions are balanced between the importance of depots and tank columns.

 

I find it very hard to believe that team balance was the main factor for VVS losing this campaign, especially seeing how quickly they won the last map.  But, since you’re so inflexible, I’ll try pretending you’re right and that the Russians started winning after their player numbers improved this last map. Then where the heck were all these players for map 1-6??? So, with your logic/“solution”, if you cap sides and many Red players only decide to come fly late in the campaign, then that will lock out a lot of people that want to fly.

 

You can’t just admit you were largely wrong about why LW did so well this campaign? There’s no way you will concede that the Blue pilots had a better strategy, understanding of primary TAW targets, and better execution (plus a few lucky breaks)?  You seriously think VVS couldn’t have won this campaign if they had beeen more organized and focused? Seems like a huge coincidence that a bunch of posts were openly made about strategy/teamwork late into map 6, then all of a sudden Reds pulls a win with similar tactics.... 

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8 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

So, with your logic/“solution”, if you cap sides and many Red players only decide to come fly late in the campaign, then that will lock out a lot of people that want to fly.

 

No it won't. You can always fly for the other side. You can also simply prevent this issue by allowing a certain numbers of players on one side before the limitation kicks in. 

 

12 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

You can’t just admit you were largely wrong about why LW did so well this campaign? There’s no way you will concede that the Blue pilots had a better strategy, understanding of primary TAW targets, and better execution (plus a few lucky breaks)?  You seriously think VVS couldn’t have won this campaign if they had beeen more organized and focused? Seems like a huge coincidence that a bunch of posts were openly made about strategy/teamwork late into map 6, then all of a sudden Reds pulls a win with similar tactics.... 

 

There is no single cause explanation as to why VVS did so bad / Axis did so well. There are several factors, i can't stress this enough. Honestly i am a little tired of people saying that their teamwork was the major factor winning when other factors played a bigger role. The new system is flawed. You managed to exploit it better than VVS but you also had the better opportunities.

 

In the end it doesn't matter who had great teamplay and who didn't. We should rather focus on discussing changes because otherwise next campaign will be a major steamroll.

 

Who won this campaign? I think nobody did, because all TAW campaigns since the new system got implemented were boring.  

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27 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

Then where the heck were all these players for map 1-6???

Well, I don't know about the other 7 - 10 (I don't remember exactly) players, but I just got to TAW around the end of map 5.  I was so happy to be teaming with experienced players and learning how to Peshka that I just went along on every raid we could put together for about 10 hours.  We had fun and told epic jokes on the flights there (and back).

 

27 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

There’s no way you will concede that the Blue pilots had a better strategy, understanding of primary TAW targets, and better execution (plus a few lucky breaks)?  

Sorry to butt in on this - because seriously I don't know - has Blue rolled any of these 8 maps in a little less than 24 hours?

 

What I will agree to however is that Depots need to be reworked.  I mean we pulled the lynch pin out and just by the other Reds showing up and playing their normal sessions, Blue's wheels fell right off.   As fun as it was to go on a mad spree bombing the depots, I don't think it makes for good battles to steamroll that powerfully.

 

 

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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25 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

No it won't. You can always fly for the other side. You can also simply prevent this issue by allowing a certain numbers of players on one side before the limitation kicks in. 
 

There is no single cause explanation as to why VVS did so bad / Axis did so well. There are several factors, i can't stress this enough. Honestly i am a little tired of people saying that their teamwork was the major factor winning when other factors played a bigger role. The new system is flawed. You managed to exploit it better than VVS but you also had the better opportunities.

 

In the end it doesn't matter who had great teamplay and who didn't. We should rather focus on discussing changes because otherwise next campaign will be a major steamroll.

I have to fully agree with Ivy here. Henhawk, i have written many times my opinion regarding the outcome of this edition, i never said numbers was the only one -but i can't let you and Infar pretend they were OK cause that's pure BS, a bit dishonest i think actually- and I have given credit to what LW did also. So please, read carefully previous posts, and let's stop this silly arguement which leads nowhere by now...we are starting to repeat ourselves like parrots. I'll just stop here.

All i care about now, is we have more balanced teams and winning conditions next edition.

 

S!

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7 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

All i care about now, is we have more balanced teams and winning conditions next edition.

 

S!

 

Sorry to butt in again, but I partially agree with this statement. Balanced victory conditions - yes.  Balanced teams - meh. 

 

If this server was for tangible real-world prizes - not just bragging rights - then, team balance would be a must.  Once you add the element(s) of 24/7 server operation and the axiom of "You have to sleep sometime." into the mix team balance is pretty much moot - even if the server reserves 50/50 slots for teams or kicks the 1 or 2 or 20 extra pilots bolstering one side.  I mean what is going to fix this? Having to apply for a specific time slot to play so the admins can schedule even numbered matches?

As far as things go now, there is an ebb and flow as to what times of day which team has numerical superiority and what times of day both teams are even.  I fly this server because I like it.  If I'm logged in and outnumbered, then it's up to me if I want to risk my earned plane set or stick with the +1 planes.  If I'm on the stronger side, then I chalk it up to good fortune.

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