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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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During this night (European time zone) a non-existent column when it stopped flying at about 7 pm has advanced by itself more than 120 km reaching the depots of the south and this time the depots were more even. It's not that there are more columns, it's that the blue ones are advancing at breakneck speed, whether they have opposition or not.

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Strange... I dont recall Katon talking about any changes on the columns.... perhaps theres a unintended bug in the script ?

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12 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Had to google that. Damn it. Foreigners knowing my one language better than me is embarrassing. Good post, thanks.

The funny thing is - while typing, my grammar and spelling check thingy suggested it as a "better word". I was like "Wow this sounds so sophisticated - I'll use it!" :biggrin:

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@=LG=Kathon 
My Suggestion for the next TAW Campaign:
Extend the Registration Phase before the actual start of the Campaign. Not just a day ahead, make it a week or an even longer time frame. Give players the chance to register early and let them pick a side. Show those numbers on the TAW-Startpage, so that everybody can see how balanced (or unbalanced) the  Teams are during the Registration Phase. As long as this Pre-Campaign-Phase is running, registered players should still be able to change sides.  Maybe we would get a more balanced campaign this way. 
 

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:26 PM, JG4_RuckZuck said:

I am very sorry for my mistake. I apologized right after that. You flew with your BF-110 at the clouds underneath where Pe-2 reported
has been. As I said, I'm sorry.

No hard feelings - I deleted the above request.

 

anyway we've seen each other around 1 minute before you shoot me at the same hight and roughly 150m separated while you were in slow left hand turn in my direction, over southern target. When I noticed you i decided to cover north target so both could be defended and flew north ( I must say that it crossed my mind that you will not be that stupid or blind to attack… ). Shortly later the enemy was reported so it was impossible for him to be at the place where you attacked me. Apart for the obvious differences in the 110 and pe2  apreance, like the engines hanging below the wings on pe2, the wider cabin etc the gunner was not shooting at you, wasnt it suprising...

 

And the last thing, sometimes I'm more on duty sometimes less and  yesterday i had only roughly 1 hour off, for my entertiment which now is TAW. While flying blue i mostly fly bombers and ju52 paradrops in order to help the ground war because there's already enough hartmans, ( when i fly red is more 50/50) but sometimes i take also a fighter for a spin. Yesterday due to new map and the 110g being avialable for the first time i wanted to try it out with the add guns. So at the end of that hour which i had free and short of trying out the guns as the enemy was closing I got shot by a friendly who didnt bother to check the target even after he seen a friendly 2win engine shortly eralier...

Now I also cant check the 110 becasue i must earn some cms to get it back…

 

 

Edited by Carl_infar

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From my observations the biggest impact this round is the increased number of attacking tank columns.  I’ve seen multiple times during the US evening times where there were 3 German tank columns attacking and no Russian tank columns attacking.  Looking at the mission history I can see this happening the other way as well, I assume based on which side is on the offensive.

 

The problem with this set up is that, while in certain time zones (e.g. Europe late afternoon for 6+ hours), the server is likely more full, and there are enough pilots to possibly deal with three tank columns and other duties, much of the rest of the times the server is not as full.  In some cases (at least in my time zone, Pacific time/US west coast), I usually see anywhere from 5 to 15 pilots on each side (varies, sometimes more German, sometimes more Russian).

 

With these few numbers, it becomes increasingly difficult to destroy one - let alone three - tank columns in addition to doing anything else like defending defensive positions, airfields, depots or attacking the same on the enemy side.

 

I would recommend that the admins consider what an “average” server population might look like, then adjust the number of tank columns accordingly for future maps.  If the max number of tank columns attacking at one time were reduced from 3 to 2, it would probably have a huge impact during those less populated times, and reduce the steamroller effect.

Edited by AKA_Relent
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On 7/12/2018 at 9:01 PM, AKA_Relent said:

From my observations the biggest impact this round is the increased number of attacking tank columns.  I’ve seen multiple times during the US evening times where there were 3 German tank columns attacking and no Russian tank columns attacking.  Looking at the mission history I can see this happening the other way as well, I assume based on which side is on the offensive.

 

The problem with this set up is that, while in certain time zones (e.g. Europe late afternoon for 6+ hours), the server is likely more full, and there are enough pilots to possibly deal with three tank columns and other duties, much of the rest of the times the server is not as full.  In some cases (at least in my time zone, Pacific time/US west coast), I usually see anywhere from 5 to 15 pilots on each side (varies, sometimes more German, sometimes more Russian).

 

With these few numbers, it becomes increasingly difficult to destroy one - let alone three - tank columns in addition to doing anything else like defending defensive positions, airfields, depots or attacking the same on the enemy side.

 

I would recommend that the admins consider what an “average” server population might look like, then adjust the number of tank columns accordingly for future maps.  If the max number of tank columns attacking at one time were reduced from 3 to 2, it would probably have a huge impact during those less populated times, and reduce the steamroller effect.

Why you take so much care about tank colums? 

Spend this time to kill trucks in the column and then go and destroy depots. Columns is tactical target and depots is a strategy target. If you don’t have enough forces to attack just defense and do strategy targets. 2 pe2 and 2 fighter enough to destroy 20-30% depot for only 1 flight. If you will take il2 there then more. Just cooperate and do this.

Edited by =KK=Des_

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Haha! This is so funny! I see the music has changed and the RED side is now the cry baby!

 

Thank you TAW admin for changing things a bit!

 

#1, Taking out Depots are now more important that killing tanks! This means He 111s now have a purpose.

#2, Just killing tanks will not win a map anymore so the IL-2 is no longer a super weapon. There is a option B now, see above #1

#3, RED airbases are far from the front (...maybe too far), but this was one of the major issues for the BLUE side in the prior TAW campaigns. This is way sometimes you see few RED tanks attacking, because they are so close to the front, they are usually destroyed by the tail end of map's rotation. Combined with #1, it's easy to see how BLUE is winning.

#4, Better logic to handle aircraft loss! THANKS ADMIN! Thus, you don't run out of aircraft so fast - this is after all just a  game...

 

With regards to side # balancing, yeah - I fly only for the BLUE side. Some people switch - and that to each their own. Some fly only RED, so logic would mean if RED team is still shooting down more BLUE aircraft, it means that all the BLUE pilots are flying attack correct? Or spectating LOL

 

I would love to speculate on how the RED team could flip this again - but I'll let you guys figure it out.

 

 

Edited by SCG_X-Man
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11 minutes ago, SCG_X-Man said:

I see the music has changed and the RED side is now the cry baby!


Yes. because structural critism is crying. Did you know that the depot mechanics are there for ages?

At least there were there as the blues got hammered last campaign were the numbers were ok.

Edited by DerSheriff
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2 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:


Yes. because structural critism is crying. Did you know that the depot mechanics are there for ages?
 

 

No way! Et tu, DerSheriff? 😞

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1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:


Yes. because structural critism is crying. Did you know that the depot mechanics are there for ages?

At least there were there as the blues got hammered last campaign were the numbers were ok.

 

 

Last time i checked we said some structural criticism, but we get called Luft Whiners?

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Personally, I thought the German side out smarted the Reds by a margin, I don't know enough about the system behind the TAW, but it seems the German side got it right when it comes to hitting targets, true blitzkrieg without the interference of a jumped up Corporal.

 

Well done the Blue side.👍

 

 

Ardmore

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1 hour ago, =FI=Ardmore said:

I don't know enough about the system behind the TAW

Exactly!

Otherwise you wouldn't reach the conclusion that a victory is achieved by only one factor. LW did well using their strategic bombers, but a victory in this kind of campaigns have to do with a mix of factors; and some guys seem willing to ignore other decisive issues that contributed to their victory this edition. "Outsmarting" the other side, surely wasn't the most relevant. It's like capturing an airfield in Ju52's when you have 40 guys on your side, and 8 on the other, it's not smart nor brilliantly team worked, but just an easy walk in the park due to huge team imbalance...no matter how many nice propaganda videos you make afterwards ;)

 

BTW:  if someone really has to be explained the difference between whining and constructive criticism, then there's no point in even trying, they won´t get it anyway...or don't want to get it.

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Actually Chimango, Blue did it last night with Ju52’s even though they were outnumbered at the time, something like 10-4 at one point when I was flying.  Have to hand it to them, brilliant - 4 guys took Ju-52’s from Timo... to Viselky and dropped paratroopers nearby, when most/all Reds we’re off attacking other areas.  The base was not captured, but it was damaged to 95% which closed it, and made it much easier to capture in a subsequent round, plus it forced Red to fly much farther to attack/defend.

 

I’m in agreement with those that have voiced their opinions that this is an unfair advantage for one side to have.

 

For the admins -  would it be possible to use the Pe-2 in a similar fashion?  Obviously there are no paratroopers, but what about landing Pe-2’s with 100% fuel and no bombs/rockets at a nearby unused field or even a road (e.g. within xxx? km from the enemy airbase trying to be captured/damaged).  This can simulate dropping supplies to friendly troops or partisans behind the lines, maybe another way to at least damage enemy airfields in a similar fashion that paratroopers can now with Ju-52’s.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

what about landing Pe-2’s with 100% fuel and no bombs/rockets at a nearby unused field or even a road (e.g. within xxx? km from the enemy airbase trying to be captured/damaged).

or on a nearby, straight stretch of frozen river on snow maps...

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I can understand that people who only fly blue are happy that they won a campaign for once. I truly do. However this shouldn't cloud your judgement on why this occurred. With the new meta, it became quite obvious that the system is flawed and mainly responsible for the outcome of the campaign.

 

It is nearly impossible to defend a Depot without spending at least twice as many resources on defending it, which is simply not going to happen even with balanced numbers. This is true for both sides, even though it is a bigger issue for Red because of the bigger bomb load of axis bombers (which is historical accuracy) and greater availability on early maps. 

 

Why is it impossible to defend a Depot?

To defend it, you have to prevent a bomb drop on target. Currently there is only a small window of warning before the actual drop happens, giving defenders very little time to react, even if they are on altitude and at the depot. Now you can try to catch the bombers before they even come in range of the Depot by patrolling certain areas, but doing it alone is like searching for a needle in a haystack more or less. You might find Bombers who fly straight to the Depot but you have to spot them first as well. The chances that they sneak past you are big. Of course you can set up multiple patrol routes with multiple planes but that's a very bad cost-benefit calculation, especially when you don't have the numerical advantage. There is simply no way that you can spare so many pilots.

There is also very little chance of them running out of bombers. Remember that Bombers get additional combat missions. On a long bombing run to the Depot that can easily get up to +3 CM which directly replenishes a Bomber again.  To wear the enemy down, you have to barely let anyone get home. On a good portion of the Maps, Axis can have 4 bombers in their hangar. Defending a Depot effectively with these numbers is impossible in my opinion. 

 

It is a good decision to encourage level bombing by giving out additional combat missions. This should not change. However, like i said in previous posts, i think that the defense of Depots should be increased in one way or another so that the destruction of a Depot isn't solely a question of when anymore.

 

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6 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

or on a nearby, straight stretch of frozen river on snow maps...

 

Yes!  Good call.  Of course, a frozen river - basically any way it can be landed.  But within the same parameters distance-wise as the Ju-52’s have to operate, and only if the enemy airfield is >50% damaged so both sides have the opportunity to perform similar actions.

 

Would be a great addition to the arsenal to counter the paratroop drop, and partisans were working on the Russian side that this could simulate leveraging.

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46 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

I can understand that people who only fly blue are happy that they won a campaign for once. I truly do. However this shouldn't cloud your judgement on why this occurred. With the new meta, it became quite obvious that the system is flawed and mainly responsible for the outcome of the campaign.

 

It is nearly impossible to defend a Depot without spending at least twice as many resources on defending it, which is simply not going to happen even with balanced numbers. This is true for both sides, even though it is a bigger issue for Red because of the bigger bomb load of axis bombers (which is historical accuracy) and greater availability on early maps. 

 

Why is it impossible to defend a Depot?

To defend it, you have to prevent a bomb drop on target. Currently there is only a small window of warning before the actual drop happens, giving defenders very little time to react, even if they are on altitude and at the depot. Now you can try to catch the bombers before they even come in range of the Depot by patrolling certain areas, but doing it alone is like searching for a needle in a haystack more or less. You might find Bombers who fly straight to the Depot but you have to spot them first as well. The chances that they sneak past you are big. Of course you can set up multiple patrol routes with multiple planes but that's a very bad cost-benefit calculation, especially when you don't have the numerical advantage. There is simply no way that you can spare so many pilots.

There is also very little chance of them running out of bombers. Remember that Bombers get additional combat missions. On a long bombing run to the Depot that can easily get up to +3 CM which directly replenishes a Bomber again.  To wear the enemy down, you have to barely let anyone get home. On a good portion of the Maps, Axis can have 4 bombers in their hangar. Defending a Depot effectively with these numbers is impossible in my opinion. 

 

It is a good decision to encourage level bombing by giving out additional combat missions. This should not change. However, like i said in previous posts, i think that the defense of Depots should be increased in one way or another so that the destruction of a Depot isn't solely a question of when anymore.

 

Do you know that last 2-3 maps blue sturm  depots. Killed all aaa and sturm it. So if you have 3-4 fighters there you can stop it. Because only one flight in mission possible to get there. 

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Not understanding this , But Why is the  friendly AAA shooting me down defending our tanks on road in grind 0336   ...??  both my wings gone and tail section destroyed had to bail . Even after bail still AAA fires  . 

14.07.2018 21:44:25 WAS DAMAGED 0.039 Sd Kfz 10 Flak 38 AA  
14.07.2018 21:44:25 WAS DAMAGED 0.918 Sd Kfz 10 Flak 38 AA  
14.07.2018 21:44:25 WAS SHOT DOWN   Sd Kfz 10 Flak 38 AA  
14.07.2018 21:44:30 EJECTED     Pilot  
14.07.2018 21:44:30 WAS DAMAGED 0.036 Sd Kfz 10 Flak 38 AA  
14.07.2018 21:44:35 WAS DAMAGED 0.964      
14.07.2018 21:44:35 WAS KILLED
       
Edited by II./JG77_Con

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5 hours ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

 

 

Last time i checked we said some structural criticism, but we get called Luft Whiners?

 

 

Yeah it's older than our time simming. I find it funny. I call myself out on it when I'm luftwhining. We used to get so cranky about flamethrower spits in Cliffs of Dover. I was guilty too, I had quite the stack of DeWilde in my belts when I fly Red. I've always been a side slut.

 

It's too good a play on Luftwaffe, us blue are stuck with it.   :)

 

On campaign topic.....

 

I popped in to ask, is it worth flying anymore? Red has already lost right?

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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8 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

I popped in to ask, is it worth flying anymore? Red has already lost right?

 

So you lose the campaign. For me it is not about who wins, but a simulated war where losses matter. So we fight to the bitter end :)

I have been thinking about how attacking depots win the campaign. Surely this can be countered by limiting the really heavy bombs. Say only 2 planes at as great a distance from any depot as possible spawn per team. So instead of three or four 1000kg bombers deciding the fate of the campaign, they are a finite resource. Just a thought. It will not solve all the problems but it will slow down the campaign.

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2 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

 

 

I popped in to ask, is it worth flying anymore? Red has already lost right?

I personally fly for the individual sorties on TAW for a long time. Otherwise TAW drives you mad.

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@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

Edited by SCG_X-Man
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1 hour ago, SCG_X-Man said:

@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

 

Suuure, lets just swap them F-4's to F-2's. 

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2 hours ago, SCG_X-Man said:

@=LG=Kathon Just looking at the # of fighter allocation for RED vs BLUE:

 

image.png.69a79fcef1a7508e0b8967b200b01c32.pngimage.png.0bdb8165cf3638c47001fddfe45d8745.png

 

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

Well, it happens the other way too. Map #2 and #7 the Germans have one more fighter (max) than the Russians.  Only in map #6 do the Russians have one more fighter (max) than the Germans.  If anything, there should be one more map where the Russians have an extra fighter if you want to make it even! :)

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Fighter comparison is a red herring anyhow. Russians have inferior equipment right up on the time they get La-5FN, where they can start to claim superiority in some aspects of the performance metrics that, you know, matters. 

 

And yet none of that really matters in a big picture. I would argue that if Russians got nothing but LaGG-3 without 23mm and Mig-3 across all 8 maps, the outcomes of the campaigns would not really be effected in any tangible way. 

 

What matters is the power of the tanks, multiplied by the integrity of the Depots and subtracted by the effectiveness of the enemy defenses multiplied by the enemy depot integrity. 

This all is for the simple reason that 2/3 of the server run time, the available player counts are nowhere near big enough to chop down defenses or incoming tanks that has been seen from one side of the team this TAW to make any dent in the outcome dictated by the TAW script. At best, one must run as fast as he can just to stay still. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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Is it me or have the Red's been uncoordinated this entire campaign, maybe that is why they are having a hard time? Even with total air superiority they seem to be foundering... Yes I know a lot more people decided to go blue this campaign but still...

Screenshot (37).png

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55 minutes ago, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

Is it me or have the Red's been uncoordinated this entire campaign, maybe that is why they are having a hard time? Even with total air superiority they seem to be foundering... Yes I know a lot more people decided to go blue this campaign but still...

 

 

 

facepalm.jpg

 

edit.

Just for contexts, that screenshot was taken about 10 minutes before map end (that the screenshot conveniently omit) where blue team quit after well, nuking all they needed to nuke. 

 

The GMT 06:00 +-2hours is the only timezone bracket where reds have more people than blues, but that is the usual 5:10 ratio. 

In contrast, when blue timezone spikes, some 12 hours later, the numbers look more like 50:30 or worse. 

 

Please spare us the fallacious number arguments of "how VVS cant undo all the stuff in 6 hours with 10 men  flight persons that was done to them rest of the 18 hours".

 

For additional contexts, actual numbers 40 minutes later

numbers.jpg

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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4 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

facepalm.jpg

 

edit.

Just for contexts, that screenshot was taken about 10 minutes before map end (that the screenshot conveniently omit) where blue team quit after well, nuking all they needed to nuke. 

 

The GMT 06:00 +-2hours is the only timezone bracket where reds have more people than blues, but that is the usual 5:10 ratio. 

In contrast, when blue timezone spikes, some 12 hours later, the numbers look more like 50:30 or worse. 

 

Please spare us the fallacious number arguments of "how VVS cant undo all the stuff in 6 hours with 10 men  flight persons that was done to them rest of the 18 hours".

 

For additional contexts, actual numbers 40 minutes later

numbers.jpg

Sorry, I thought I would add a little humour to the VSS vs Lufty debate. I normally fly VSS but chose to test my newly purchased G6. Having not scored a single air kill in the last three campaigns I thought I would go the automatic route. Sadly so far no kills which indicates  I am just a sloppy pilot lacking SA and I should just stick to attackers and bombing :)

 

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23 minutes ago, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

Sorry, I thought I would add a little humour to the VSS vs Lufty debate. I normally fly VSS but chose to test my newly purchased G6. Having not scored a single air kill in the last three campaigns I thought I would go the automatic route. Sadly so far no kills which indicates  I am just a sloppy pilot lacking SA and I should just stick to attackers and bombing :)

 

Bombing and attacking is arguably 10X more useful than being a fighter jockey. Dont sell yourself short :biggrin:

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Some highlights from the latest TAW campaign. I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong...

 

Warning: Terrible gunnery and real swastikas.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Darbzy said:

I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong

Hi Darbzy; this is Edition is TAW XIV (14). On previous page i wrote edition numbers with end dates; also if you check the Manual on main page admins added the changelog with links to the start of each edition. S!

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15 hours ago, SCG_X-Man said:

Looks like RED pilots get 1 more aircraft than BLUE. May I suggest BLUE get either 3 Bf 109 G-2s or 2 Fw 190 A-3s to keep it equal. This maybe a none issue in this map but all subsequent ones - we all should have the same allotment.

 

Thanks

 

You could always get a M.C.202 to match the LaGG.

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:01 PM, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

 

So you lose the campaign. For me it is not about who wins, but a simulated war where losses matter. So we fight to the bitter end :)

 

 

 

I have the ACG historical campaign for that. I'm here because I'm too old for contact team sports.

 

This game is over. Waiting for the reset. Going Blue next one.

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15 hours ago, Darbzy said:

Some highlights from the latest TAW campaign. I couldn't remember if this was campaign 14 or 15 so I guessed 15 but I'm probably wrong...

 

Warning: Terrible gunnery and real swastikas.

 

 

 

Great vid! Loved the addition of a little Megadeth in the end as well!

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nice video.  

 

Will be nice see some Flack 88 shotings your bombers.... only for take the idea you are bombing something defended. But i imagine if flack88 hit some Bomber we have to replace this guns... then is ok. 

 

I hate view Ju-52 capturing bases.... the most unnfair situation of this competition.... no doubt.... 51% of damage, drop zone far of AAA , and majority of caputures made whit good favorable quorums...  but this is the especial TAW " blues must win " , i hope on next edition , things take more sense. 

 

thx for share !

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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

nice video.  

 

Will be nice see some Flack 88 shotings your bombers.... only for take the idea you are bombing something defended. But i imagine if flack88 hit some Bomber we have to replace this guns... then is ok. 

 

I hate view Ju-52 capturing bases.... the most unnfair situation of this competition.... no doubt.... 51% of damage, drop zone far of AAA , and majority of caputures made whit good favorable quorums...  but this is the especial TAW " blues must win " , i hope on next edition , things take more sense. 

 

thx for share !


Next campaign Hydra (also known as the "9k Sky Knights") will fly blue again. So red gets a chance and can attack with impunity again.

btw a 88 hit my A-20 at 6k the other day. I flew back 100km to the airfield. Good Wright radials.

Edited by DerSheriff

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:)

I prefer have hydra pilots on my side, I know about your Low patrols, and are a true treath for my Il2.

 

Nice to know sometimes flack 88 hit something because i have the sensation , this flack at high level,  are only for take a little inmersion.... and i think on the video will be nice see around 88 explosions.

 

Im not sure... but maybe is a internet connexion problem?? i have a very poor connexion... i think is possible i miss a lot of flack explosions... sometimes teamsquad alert my about Flack 88 around and i dont see nothing... the other options is due my age i have to visit the oculist.



 

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