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Tactical Air War

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35 minutes ago, xJammer said:

 

 

Poor choice of word "afraid", but its just a matter of tactical viability. In any case, as I said before, I'd like to see the "rare" stuff be dedicated to the "rare" pilots. Gives motivation to live, stops the nonsense argument about the things that are available and aren't.

 

Piloting Lagg-3 is not considered to be reward, the 23mm just makes it more bearable. If you miss your first pass, you rarely get another. 

 

 

Also, hiding the mods behind the rank is just going to make problem of  "unfair mods" worse. Using your logic, it is still the pilots and not the equipment that matter, so the good pilots will just snowball on and the mediocre crowd will be about as effective withe the non "op" mods. 

 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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30 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Piloting Lagg-3 is not considered to be reward, the 23mm just makes it more bearable. If you miss your first pass, you rarely get another. 

 

 

If everything is so awful on the red side, how do people manage to be aces and win? You should consider driving a peshka - AI rear gunner should get you the pilot kill with just the UBS, doesn't even need the 23mm. I detect elevated levels of salt though, relaxation baths and water intake recommended!

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23 minutes ago, xJammer said:

 

 

If everything is so awful on the red side, how do people manage to be aces and win? You should consider driving a peshka - AI rear gunner should get you the pilot kill with just the UBS, doesn't even need the 23mm. I detect elevated levels of salt though, relaxation baths and water intake recommended!

 

I cant marry a man who cant tame PE-2 back gunner.

 

*runs away, crying, in to the sunset*

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43 minutes ago, xJammer said:

You should consider driving a peshka - AI rear gunner should get you the pilot kill with just the UBS, doesn't even need the 23mm.

 

Now this is laughable :).  Obviously you haven't flown the Pe-2 much... in all the iterations of TAW I've flown in (mostly as Russian, once as German), my Pe-2 AI gunner has PK'd an attacking enemy fighter (109) once.  Way more often than not (~80%+), the enemy fighter damages me without any signs of damage themselves.

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17 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

Now this is laughable :).  Obviously you haven't flown the Pe-2 much... in all the iterations of TAW I've flown in (mostly as Russian, once as German), my Pe-2 AI gunner has PK'd an attacking enemy fighter (109) once.  Way more often than not (~80%+), the enemy fighter damages me without any signs of damage themselves.

 

Same here. 

 

Considering that the Pe-2's options for attack are very similar to a Ju-88 (but Pe-2 is slower), I'm surprised that Axis pilots park at its tail at all to attack. 

 

But.... My enemy isn't aiding me in expediting his death and my victory.  It's obviously a wrong system that needs to be nerfed. :nea:

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In fairness, there are significant differences between the PE-2 and the JU-88. The guns for a start. The PE-2 gets a single gun while the 88 has 2 guns. The PE's gun is a 12.7 mm gun so there is that. Also the PE-2 while being slower also caries significantly less payload, only 1000 Kg in total while the 88 caries something like 2000 Kg. Also the 88 is a much better sight while on fire, but that might just be my opinion.

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39 minutes ago, Disarray said:

In fairness, there are significant differences between the PE-2 and the JU-88. The guns for a start. The PE-2 gets a single gun while the 88 has 2 guns. The PE's gun is a 12.7 mm gun so there is that. Also the PE-2 while being slower also caries significantly less payload, only 1000 Kg in total while the 88 caries something like 2000 Kg. Also the 88 is a much better sight while on fire, but that might just be my opinion.

 

I think I may have mis-worded what I meant to say.  I meant the options a fighter has to attack either of these planes and not expose themselves to defensive fire is similar. 

Taking the time to set up on Ju-88 and Pe-2 for frontal attacks at the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position, then watching your flight path after the attack pass greatly increase chances of survival.  Instead attackers park on the tail and make it 50/50 odds. Or, worse they choose attack/exit angles that offer a larger profile sight picture to the gunners.  Sure, offset frontal attacks offer less target window and take more time to set up, but if one hasn't given themselves the most chance to succeed, then they shouldn't complain about failing.

  

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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Any unbiased participant of TAW will agree that adding F4s with gunpods in 2nd map while at the same time removing VYa23mm till map 4 (and even there very rare to find it available); was a bit too much. All the rest it's pure "bla bla" to justify the unjustifiable.

 

PS. please not again the typical RB!WC statement about OP Pe2 gunners crap. We can show you many tracks of LW bombers with gunners producing critical damage to fighters from impossible angles and speeds. The gunners issue is equal for LW and VVS.

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3 hours ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

We can show you many tracks of LW bombers with gunners producing critical damage to fighters from impossible angles and speeds. The gunners issue is equal for LW and VVS.

 

Please do, I'm interested on a statistical point of view, so please, share the videos.

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8 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Considering that the Pe-2's options for attack are very similar to a Ju-88 (but Pe-2 is slower), I'm surprised that Axis pilots park at its tail at all to attack.

 

Do we play the same game? Pe-2 is faster, and the gunners have significantly better guns and larger fields of fire. It is much more difficult/riskier for a fighter to attack. If there are several unescorted Ju 88s you can take down them all(23 mm or shvak, doesnt matter) but out of a formation of Peshkas a average 109 is likely to be able to shoot down just one before suffering damage enough to need to abort.

 

This discussion started when someone wanted more 23 mm and gunpods away from 109s for balance, but I doubt the available guns for the bomber interceptors had anything to do with depot damage as they tended to be jaboed to 100 % on lowish server population times.

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There's no such thing as gunner issue.

 

Generally all bombers are pretty defencless and if attacker knows what he is doing and doesnt get overexcited (which i must admit I'm also sometimes guilty of) and flyes to close to bomber  or sits on bomber six, bombers are dead without inflicting any significant damage on the attacking fighters.

 

Unfortunatelly time after time I see (as i'm Like in Rise of Flight gunning myself and see it ech time)many people making poor attack runs on the bombers (not in all cases but at least 60%-70%). They are coming form dead six or high/low six positions within very short distance to the bombers and its really hard not to hit them, heck. i even shoot down a yak1 while gunning form ju52 single gun this campaign...

And those people each time shout murder, those op gunners, while the blame is unfortunately entirely on their side.

 

If you dont belive me, check the sherriffs vids form previous campaign, he didnt loose even one plane to the pe2 gunners, while he was following few simple rules.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

Do we play the same game? Pe-2 is faster, and the gunners have significantly better guns and larger fields of fire. It is much more difficult/riskier for a fighter to attack. If there are several unescorted Ju 88s you can take down them all(23 mm or shvak, doesnt matter) but out of a formation of Peshkas a average 109 is likely to be able to shoot down just one before suffering damage enough to need to abort.

 

This discussion started when someone wanted more 23 mm and gunpods away from 109s for balance, but I doubt the available guns for the bomber interceptors had anything to do with depot damage as they tended to be jaboed to 100 % on lowish server population times.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about the speed I'll have to look into the 88's performance.  What I do know is that the Pe2 has a top un-laden level speed of ~450kph and a shallow/safe dive speed just above 500kph - more if you're willing to risk lawn darting.  Besides the direct 12 o'clock (pilot's gun) the Pe2 has zero frontal gun coverage.  The 88 however, has rear upper and lower guns plus a frontal gunner's position making attacking from 10 or 2 a bit less forgiving. 

 

Also, though 109's were certainly used to attack bomber formations, they weren't exactly known to be able to take a hit in the engine.  190's had a much better reputation in that department.  Perhaps I'm giving good advice to Axis pilots when I tell them to attack Peshkas from the front.  You can thank me later.  :dance:

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4 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Maybe I'm wrong about the speed I'll have to look into the 88's performance.  What I do know is that the Pe2 has a top un-laden level speed of ~450kph and a shallow/safe dive speed just above 500kph - more if you're willing to risk lawn darting.  Besides the direct 12 o'clock (pilot's gun) the Pe2 has zero frontal gun coverage.  The 88 however, has rear upper and lower guns plus a frontal gunner's position making attacking from 10 or 2 a bit less forgiving. 

 

Also, though 109's were certainly used to attack bomber formations, they weren't exactly known to be able to take a hit in the engine.  190's had a much better reputation in that department.  Perhaps I'm giving good advice to Axis pilots when I tell them to attack Peshkas from the front.  You can thank me later.  :dance:

 

The rear guns are not only pretty weak(being just 8mm MGs) but have very limited fields of fire and the so called front gun is worthless, mainly because its field of fire is also very limited. It was so bad that it was often removed in real life.

 

I advice everyone to try all planes in the game and test what they can do. There is a significant difference between attacking a Ju 88 or He 111 and attacking a Pe-2. But as I say for I think 3rd time I dont think its very relevant when it comes of depot attacks, as all level bombers are very difficult to intercept before they get to drop their bombs(just attack head on, piece of cake, hurr durr) and would be even if game's draw range was 16 km like in the old game. So difference is mainly in the poor bomber's ability to survive back home.

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17 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Maybe I'm wrong about the speed I'll have to look into the 88's performance.  What I do know is that the Pe2 has a top un-laden level speed of ~450kph and a shallow/safe dive speed just above 500kph - more if you're willing to risk lawn darting.  Besides the direct 12 o'clock (pilot's gun) the Pe2 has zero frontal gun coverage.  The 88 however, has rear upper and lower guns plus a frontal gunner's position making attacking from 10 or 2 a bit less forgiving. 

 

Also, though 109's were certainly used to attack bomber formations, they weren't exactly known to be able to take a hit in the engine.  190's had a much better reputation in that department.  Perhaps I'm giving good advice to Axis pilots when I tell them to attack Peshkas from the front.  You can thank me later.  :dance:

I tried all the german fighters (during last TAW and taw i think XII which were the only camps i've flown blue)  and for bombers hunting my favourite german plane is ME 110. Didnt loose even 1 me 110 while shooting down the PE2s. Of course the G variant is better with those add guns, but E is also quite good. The FW190 especially a5 of course can pack more punch and its faster but with 110 you can make those noobe six o'clock approach (110 flies superb on one engine which one cant say about pe2...

 

10 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

The rear guns are not only pretty weak(being just 8mm MGs) but have very limited fields of fire and the so called front gun is worthless, mainly because its field of fire is also very limited. It was so bad that it was often removed in real life.

 

I advice everyone to try all planes in the game and test what they can do. There is a significant difference between attacking a Ju 88 or He 111 and attacking a Pe-2. But as I say for I think 3rd time I dont think its very relevant when it comes of depot attacks, as all level bombers are very difficult to intercept before they get to drop their bombs(just attack head on, piece of cake, hurr durr) and would be even if game's draw range was 16 km like in the old game. So difference is mainly in the poor bomber's ability to survive back home.

 Personally i dont see real difference between attacking PE2 ser 35 and ju88 or pe2 ser 87 and he111 h16. (only the he111 h6 & a20 with those small magzines for def guns are really bad).

 

And i think the most dangerous for attacking fighter is the he111h16 because its diffcu;t not to fly very close to him during the attack.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

 ....as all level bombers are very difficult to intercept before they get to drop their bombs(just attack head on, piece of cake, hurr durr) and would be even if game's draw range was 16 km like in the old game. So difference is mainly in the poor bomber's ability to survive back home.

 

Ya' know, you could always patrol along expected points of ingress and intercept them on the way instead of just circling the target to be defended.  I know. I know.  It's boring, prevents insta-glory from running headlong into battle, and doesn't always yield results but, if you're in a 109 or 190 tooling around at 7k (like Axis seems to do) it might be worth a shot - especially if you're coordinating with others patrolling all possible ingress routes.  You'd be surprised how few pilots you would need to cover the bases.  I know. I know. Draw distance and whatnot...

 

While (in-game) one can only see other planes for a radius of 10km, but if you look out the left and right windows, up and down as well, the math adds up to quite a lot of area you can look upon.  Not to mention a well planned patrol route increases the area one can survey.

 

I recall one instance where myself and a few others were attacking a depot and the opponents DID post up mid-way along our expected route. Needless to say, that sortie did not have an acceptable success rate.  (try some strategy, piece of cake, hurr durr). 

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11 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Ya' know, you could always patrol along expected points of ingress and intercept them on the way instead of just circling the target to be defended.  I know. I know.  It's boring, prevents insta-glory from running headlong into battle, and doesn't always yield results but, if you're in a 109 or 190 tooling around at 7k (like Axis seems to do) it might be worth a shot - especially if you're coordinating with others patrolling all possible ingress routes.  You'd be surprised how few pilots you would need to cover the bases.  I know. I know. Draw distance and whatnot... 

 

While (in-game) one can only see other planes for a radius of 10km, but if you look out the left and right windows, up and down as well, the math adds up to quite a lot of area you can look upon.  Not to mention a well planned patrol route increases the area one can survey.

 

I recall one instance where myself and a few others were attacking a depot and the opponents DID post up mid-way along our expected route. Needless to say, that sortie did not have an acceptable success rate.  (try some strategy, piece of cake, hurr durr). 

 

 

I believe this has been discussed before, at some point. Multiple fighters patrolling far enough from the target are needed to have chance of interception. Doesnt matter what side one flies, 23 mm LaGG, 190, whatever. Not worthwhile to patrol with 2-4 fighters and even still have only a chance of early interception, when those fighters could instead be bombers attacking and doing damage themselves, or doing something completely unrelated to depots. With GCI/radar/early warning of any kind things would be very different. Even if bomber gets shot down, if he scores hits(he likely will) he will earn a new plane anyway. This means that in the end both defensive CAP and escorting bombers are not very useful, unless if one wants to role play somewhat. I and many others do...

 

I have shot down A-20s and Pe-2s something like 50 km from our depots but that was just me being lucky - as I never was even looking for them - and them not being careful enough.

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47 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Ya' know, you could always patrol along expected points of ingress and intercept them on the way instead of just circling the target to be defended.

 

Like discussed before, it is simply not possible to effectively intercept bombers. There are too many variables to account for which makes it a pure guessing game which route the enemy Bomber takes and on what altitude. Even if you are lucky and patrol the right area, you still have to spot that single bomber which is not easy to begin with.

 

I am not intending to do some sort of gatekeeping here and every opinion should be valued but sometimes it makes sense to get more experience before jumping into complex gameplay discussions. I think this was your first TAW campaign?

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1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:
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I believe this has been discussed before, at some point. Multiple fighters patrolling far enough from the target are needed to have chance of interception. Doesnt matter what side one flies, 23 mm LaGG, 190, whatever. Not worthwhile to patrol with 2-4 fighters and even still have only a chance of early interception, when those fighters could instead be bombers attacking and doing damage themselves, or doing something completely unrelated to depots. With GCI/radar/early warning of any kind things would be very different. Even if bomber gets shot down, if he scores hits(he likely will) he will earn a new plane anyway. This means that in the end both defensive CAP and escorting bombers are not very useful, unless if one wants to role play somewhat. I and many others do...

 

I have shot down A-20s and Pe-2s something like 50 km from our depots but that was just me being lucky - as I never was even looking for them - and them not being careful enough.

The bomber pilot will not get the new plane if he will be killed or captured which quite often is the case.

 

Anyway i'm against GCI/radar as some fighter only players are now strongly sugessting to have it, (i know that they want a even easier life as they have now, without the need to use their brains, or get bored ;)) 

The bombers/attackers life is already heavy as they are pushing the offensive and each time must cross the border into enemy territiory and take flack and fighters attacks. The attack planes and bombers are winning the taw campaigns and not fighters. 

 

Staying in fighter at 3 to 9  k and attacking only if you have numbers advantage (at the same time screaming murder each time they got hit by the gunners while attacing from six o'clock) is not wining the maps as some would like to have , in other words they would like not to risk their precious streaks and at the same time win the map ;) 

 

Anyway as for depots its alwasy the case of resources, and team decisions, either You want to spend several fighters flight time on defending them  or  you want to Focus other targets.

 

The approach vectors are very predictable and taking in account the speed of the fighters its easy to cover quite a distance within Short time.

 

Personally during current taw i intrcepted at least 3  bombers before they bombed the depos and similar number over the depos,  although most of the time i was flying  bombers and only limited time i spend in fighters, and even less on this task so more or less 50/50 succes rate in intercepting before the depo was bombed during that limited time i spend on this task. With several fighters and dividing of the sectors between them this can easyly be increased.

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Hey, I dont necessarily want CGI/radar, just saying that no matter what weapons fighters get they cant efficiently stop bombers from bombing. Probably everyone wants more diversity and many different types of planes to be useful and not pure suicide to fly, level bombers included.

 

That said I dont think the issue with defending depots ever was about level bombers level bombing, but about how the AAA(that is probably too weak) can be killed, it mostly stays dead, and then attackers can strafe and bomb the buildings one by one. That isnt done by Ju 88s.

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14 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Anyway i'm against GCI/radar as some fighter only players are now strongly sugessting to have it, (i know that they want a even easier life as they have now, without the need to use their brains, or get bored ;)) 

The bombers/attackers life is already heavy as they are pushing the offensive and each time must cross the border into enemy territiory and take flack and fighters attacks. The attack planes and bombers are winning the taw campaigns and not fighters. 

 

I honestly don't know what your deal is. You are either completely failing at comprehending the discussion or you are deliberately trying to push your agenda by obscuring the argumentation.

 

Let me be very clear. Nobody (as far as i know) suggested a radar function. In fact, i especially said that this is not what i have in mind. So stop pulling this out of thin air. 

 

Again you are trying to segregate Fighter Pilots from Bomber Pilots and you are accusing them for only flying for their kill streak without having any example or proof to speak of. Like i said to you before, we are all playing the same game. Fighter Pilots are not your enemy. Quite the contrary. The whole narrative of "fighter pilots are useless" is something certain individuals are trying to push without realizing that it is in fact hurting their agenda. 

 

You are trying to put yourself on a pedestal for being the true cause of deciding the campaign by saying that fighter pilots aren't influencing the campaign outcome. Yet, when people are arguing that this is indeed true and that fighters need a better chance to intercept enemy Bombers to prevent a Bomb drop i.e. having an impact on the campaign outcome, you are absolutely against it and ridiculing the idea. 

 

33 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Anyway as for depots its alwasy the case of resources, and team decisions, either You want to spend several fighters flight time on defending them  or  you want to Focus other targets.

 

 

You aren't even trying to engage in a discussion on it. You are simply repeating your statements without even considering strong arguments against your views i.g. that it is absolutely ignorant to think that a outnumbered side can spare a significantly bigger group of players to defend a Depot. 

 

38 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

The approach vectors are very predictable and taking in account the speed of the fighters its easy to cover quite a distance within Short time.

 

Personally during current taw i intrcepted at least 3  bombers before they bombed the depos and similar number over the depos,  although most of the time i was flying  bombers and only limited time i spend in fighters, and even less on this task so more or less 50/50 succes rate in intercepting before the depo was bombed during that limited time i spend on this task. With several fighters and dividing of the sectors between them this can easyly be increased.

 

This is simply misleading. Your personal experience results out of less than 10 hours flown as a fighter which is very low considering that you have flown 173 sorties. On top of it you are talking about the last map, where the depots on your side (Blue of course) are less then 20km apart which makes it very easy to cover. Especially because you probably only had to defend one depot at the time. Its a obscured view that can't hold as an example for how the depot gameplay works. 

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interesting debate.

 

Many things.

 

About AAA on depots and airfields.  I always say is practically innefective. I read  here , sometimes fighters destroy it.... totally unnecessary risk ... i cover lot of attacks, and maybe try intercept more ... only few times enemys bomber, slow on level fly ( 4k to 6k ), was damaged. An maybe 5% was shot down... i no care how real is it , many things on TAW are totally unreal if we are honest.  The question is, on TAW no have quorum limits... farming is a legal posibility... the real threat for a bombers is be intercepted by enemy fighter... we discurss here ,it is hard to do ... but sometimes with no enemy this threat disapears, will be nice if depots and airfields have some kind of real level of autodefence . 

 

Edit for agre i got your point erkki.. if you want bomb one to one, need eliminate AAA . On my patrols i dont see this kind of situation ( fighters attacking AAA and bombers wasting time bombing one to one on depots i mean ) ... but last campaing... red side no have enought resources for defend all objectives ... i imagine blues have the time for elaborate attacks. :) 

 

 

 

Edited by 666GIAP_Tumu

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3 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

I honestly don't know what your deal is. You are either completely failing at comprehending the discussion or you are deliberately trying to push your agenda by obscuring the argumentation.

 

Let me be very clear. Nobody (as far as i know) suggested a radar function. In fact, i especially said that this is not what i have in mind. So stop pulling this out of thin air. 

 

Again you are trying to segregate Fighter Pilots from Bomber Pilots and you are accusing them for only flying for their kill streak without having any example or proof to speak of. Like i said to you before, we are all playing the same game. Fighter Pilots are not your enemy. Quite the contrary. The whole narrative of "fighter pilots are useless" is something certain individuals are trying to push without realizing that it is in fact hurting their agenda. 

 

You are trying to put yourself on a pedestal for being the true cause of deciding the campaign by saying that fighter pilots aren't influencing the campaign outcome. Yet, when people are arguing that this is indeed true and that fighters need a better chance to intercept enemy Bombers to prevent a Bomb drop i.e. having an impact on the campaign outcome, you are absolutely against it and ridiculing the idea. 

 

 

You aren't even trying to engage in a discussion on it. You are simply repeating your statements without even considering strong arguments against your views i.g. that it is absolutely ignorant to think that a outnumbered side can spare a significantly bigger group of players to defend a Depot. 

 

 

This is simply misleading. Your personal experience results out of less than 10 hours flown as a fighter which is very low considering that you have flown 173 sorties. On top of it you are talking about the last map, where the depots on your side (Blue of course) are less then 20km apart which makes it very easy to cover. Especially because you probably only had to defend one depot at the time. Its a obscured view that can't hold as an example for how the depot gameplay works. 

Hehe I didnt have any one particular in mind and i wasnt pulling any names and look who showed up.

There has to something to it if you are feeling so hurt ;)

 

I dont segregate fighter pilots form bomber ones, and the fighters, ast he bombers and attackers are friends.

 

I only segregate the whining, never satisfied and ever complaining ones form all others in fiutal hope that they will once grow up.

 

I find myself a rather medicore player, thats why i'm quoting sheriff who is a way way better shoot than i'm. I would quote also others if i knew ones who post TAW on Youtube.

If i quote my own experience is to show that in case of attacking bombers even medicore shot as i'm can easyly hit the attcking fighter if  the fighter comes form six o'clock (low,high,dead six no difference), so to show that complaining about ai gunners instead of changing ones attack pattens on bombers is just stupid .

 

In case of depots its same situation, even I on my 15 inch laptop screen with simple patrol pattern a can intercept with high chance the bombers prior their bombdrop, so it might be boring for some, but is easyly achivable

 

By the way i was flying those depot defence mission not only on last map but on most of the other maps and you have to add to fighter hours the attacker hours as the 110 is in taw terminology (and hours count) a strike not fighter plane (by the way when i fly red its around 50/50 for fighter/bomber flight time, on blue side more people fly fighters so for the sake of the team i fly more bomber missions (both level and dive bomb)). 

 

I also have the points/streaks etc deep in my back side and fly only for fun and my current team win (exactly in that order)

Edited by Carl_infar

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I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

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21 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

 

 

The AI is the same with it's tendency to either pull masterful trick shots or fall into a coma at the worst moments.  This can be tuned to tend more towards trick shots or comas, but will always contain some mixture of both.

 

If you want to complain about the calibre of the defensive weapons or their firing arcs, you should file a complaint with the Junkers and/or Petlyakov design bureaus.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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Doubt a He 111 or a Stuka OR a 110 will pull trickshots like a peshka, a person brought up that they are the same, and they can provide video evidence, which i would love to see

I don;t think i was complaining about calibers of any type of gunner, please don't throw words in my mouth :) 

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23 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

 

I dont think that AI isnt the same(in old game Pe-2 gunner was more accurate than gunners of other aircraft for very long time, but it was given the same parameters as other gunners later, and I dont think that is the case here) rather than people saying that a gunner with MG17 and limited arc and tail on the way is somehow the same thing as gunner with Berezin 12,7 mm, wide field of fire and nothing blocking the view. Ju 88 and Pe-2 both have top and bottom rear gunners, but there is massive gap in their effectiveness in being able to deter and damage attacking fighters. My money is on all those things together + the way the AI works stack together to produce the trickshot Vasili Zaitzev AI that will sometimes headshot a 109 speeding past and spending 5 ms at the edge of the firing arc.

 

But thats besides the point, Vya-23 or Ju 88 gunner or Pe-2 gunner, none have more than marginal effect on how easy it is to bomb depots and keep them damaged simply because bombers are difficult to intercept and the AAA can be killed and it stays dead. And then you destroy buildings one by one. Many people got as many as 50 gk per mission. I guess its easy when theres nobody to intercept and no light flak, and 100 % damage is reached quickly. Something should be done about that but without making life even harder for level bomber pilots.

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12 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Doubt a He 111 or a Stuka OR a 110 will pull trickshots like a peshka, a person brought up that they are the same, and they can provide video evidence, which i would love to see

I don;t think i was complaining about calibers of any type of gunner, please don't throw words in my mouth :) 

 

They'll pull trickshots within their firing arcs with the level of lethality afforded to them by their weapon.  How often all gunners pull the trick shot or go into a coma are the only things within the purview of the IL-2 devs or TAW administration to change.  The specifications and abilities of aircraft are not.

 

Either all gunners become somewhat more lobotomized or they become somewhat less.  That's all there is.

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IMHO the campaign should favor the VVS. They should have more planes than LW available for their pilots compared to the LW and even better positions in the map. I mean, cmon, they have shitty planes, almost always outnumbered in every campaign and the LW is the one invading their freaking country. I agree that LW only pilots do whine a lot ... Fly both sides and you will understand the struggle on the VVS side. I understand some want to make stuff more historical but this is simply impossible with what we have available. It is clear in every single server that the majority of players fly for the LW and saying that stacked teams do not affect gameplay is just nonsense. It is horrible fighting when it is like 40x10 and it ruins enjoyment. VVS might even pull off wins but there are several factors involved in that as many have pointed out before. The thing is, you as a LW pilot, should  be ashamed of urself for asking for balance when you are already on top. Every side has their pros and cons so learn how to use it. If it's so bad flying blue, go fly red then.

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Fly both sides and you will understand a lot more things.. And russians plane aren't bad, its just you can't disengage easily. I have a dream that one day this thread will be filled with constructive comments and clean of all whiners and self righteous folks. (pls don't consider my comment self righteous though :(( )

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18 minutes ago, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

 And russians plane aren't bad, its just you can't disengage easily. 

 

 

Biggest killers of Axis pilots are Axis pilots mistakes. 

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8 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

I am not intending to do some sort of gatekeeping here and every opinion should be valued but sometimes it makes sense to get more experience before jumping into complex gameplay discussions. I think this was your first TAW campaign?

 

Right then, I'm off.  I'll leave it to the experts. They apparently have their It's-Futility-Fu trained to over 9,000.  

 

And BTW. I was pointing out that Pe-2 and Ju-88 had very similar gaps in their gunner coverage at the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions so it's ideal to attack them there instead of from behind. Somehow that got turned into a who has better guns and AI gunners argument which was not the intent.  But hey, I'm just a stoopid newb.  I realize that now.  I'm out.   

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2 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Biggest killers of Axis pilots are Axis pilots mistakes. 

I believe biggest killers on either sides is pilot mistakes :) 

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10 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

IMHO the campaign should favor the VVS. They should have more planes than LW available for their pilots compared to the LW and even better positions in the map. I mean, cmon, they have shitty planes, almost always outnumbered in every campaign and the LW is the one invading their freaking country. I agree that LW only pilots do whine a lot ... Fly both sides and you will understand the struggle on the VVS side. I understand some want to make stuff more historical but this is simply impossible with what we have available. It is clear in every single server that the majority of players fly for the LW and saying that stacked teams do not affect gameplay is just nonsense. It is horrible fighting when it is like 40x10 and it ruins enjoyment. VVS might even pull off wins but there are several factors involved in that as many have pointed out before. The thing is, you as a LW pilot, should  be ashamed of urself for asking for balance when you are already on top. Every side has their pros and cons so learn how to use it. If it's so bad flying blue, go fly red then.

 

Actually, you bring up some good points Riksen - for those wanting a more historically accurate experience (not talking the plane set, as we all know there aren't enough variants of each plane type), a different "maximum number of planes per pilot", as well as introducing a "maximum participant per side" limitation could change the overall feel of the campaign, and press home the often desperate feeling pilots from each side faced (more so for the Russians in 1941-1942, and more so for the Germans in 1944-1945).

 

For example:

Maps 1-3 could favor the Germans in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 50 vs Russians max 30)

Maps 4-5 could be even in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (40 vs 40)

Maps 6-8 could favor the Russians in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 30 vs Russians max 50)

 

As technology improved in Russian aircraft/equipment in 43/44/45, so to did the number of Russian aircraft in the air vs the dwindling number of German aircraft in the air to meet them.

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50 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

For example:

Maps 1-3 could favor the Germans in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 50 vs Russians max 30)

Maps 4-5 could be even in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (40 vs 40)

Maps 6-8 could favor the Russians in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 30 vs Russians max 50)

 

 

First would be redundant and third would be punitive, as the last two maps Axis usually get their stuff kicked in anyhow. 

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The TAW server has 84 slots.  Just set the max slots per team to 42.  There will be plenty of opportunities for BOTH sides to cry about being outnumbered (ex: 42 vs. 10, etc.),  and plenty of opportunities to collect salt when you're on the larger team.  At least 1 team won't be able to almost completely close-out the battle by occupying ALL the slots.  At least "major" battles with a full server will be even. 

 

Either that or give EVERYBODY regardless of team only I-16s equipped with one-hit god bullets.  :P

Edited by Mobile_BBQ
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Hello everybody, nice to be back after years and nothing have not change.....

Biggest broblem is system itself:  Everything is pinpointed in map....Early barbarossa was mostly search and destroy...what do we have to search ? Nothing.

What is the Flak ? we probably know this. Is the enemy covering target? probably. Is this target worth of bombing? yes , as u can see on the map ? Where is the tanks ?

Exactly on this road. as u can see on the map. How many enemies ? Just press tab !!! Server is for 84 pilots...so it is...how many red or blue ?  Nobody knows. 

 

- after ketting killed....one hour ban

- let the pilot decide if he/she let somebody coming gunners position

-add captured pilot rescue mission

-we only need to know airfield to start and if we are lucky land

-make this more harder

-and u are captured when closer enemy unit than own

-was there frontline in 1941 ? No

 

Happy holiday....see u

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