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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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Naw, Manu, you were just unlucky. Might sound embarassing, but we lost two MiGs to a StuKa which had an Ace gunner - simply entering its firing arc was enough to set the MiGs on fire. Both dove at an angle at roughly 500kph. His buddy before, the other Ju-87, had a rookie gunner which didn't hit jack scheibenkleister. Didn't see us crying "Stuka OP!!!1" on the forums though!

 

So what you're witnessing is this: You are attacking diving Pe-2s way more often than Russians are attacking diving Ju-88. Except for JG4 (rare as well!), when do we see any kind of large German bomber formations - let alone Ju-88 - diving at high speeds?

 

Couple that with random gunner ability, normal distribution, and you have a good recipe for some super stronk confirmation bias.

 

 

 

P.S. Haven't seen a single He-111 yet. Haven't seen a Ju-88 yet. Rarely see some 110s. Seen 87s once.

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Well i had this happen to me for the second time (2 of 2 actually), quite a lot of bad luck i guess. I know many people on blue (amongst them real good pilots with better then 5:1 K/D) who completely stopped attacking Pe2s, because they don't wanna get shot up without actually making a mistake. Quite understandably, after those two getting-togethers i will do it similar, even if i hate that prospect. 

When i flew Russians i never had any problems killing all sorts of German aircraft, no matter which one. No plane came close what i witnessed against the Pe2. That said, the last update seemed to change gunners, so well possible that German gunners got way more precise since as well (not in the 110 though). If that's the case, they should really be changed to rookie overall. A lone bomber/attacker without fighter cover really shouldn't make it home against a fighter who knows what he is doing. The Pe2 is probably the easiest plane to get kills right now 

 

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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My I-16 was lit on fire by 110 gunner in map #1.  pls nerf/sarcasm

Edited by Kilrain

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4 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

P.S. Haven't seen a single He-111 yet. Haven't seen a Ju-88 yet. Rarely see some 110s. Seen 87s once.


I've seen a Ju-87 once. It was dogfighting with IL-2s over blue tanks.

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5 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

P.S. Haven't seen a single He-111 yet. Haven't seen a Ju-88 yet. Rarely see some 110s. Seen 87s once. 

Oh I've seen plenty and they've met their doom, you just have to know where to look ;)

 

P.S. I actually haven't seen any 110s though

Edited by 7.GShAP/Kamm

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4 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Kamm said:

P.S. I actually haven't seen any 110s though

 

Really? :huh:
That's weird, I think 110s are the second most used German aircraft, behind 109s...
Most of them are used for ground attack, some as heavy fighters to attack Pe-2s

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If you know the pe-2 is gunna shoot you down if you attack it from the back why do people still do it and then complain on here about it?

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41 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

If you know the pe-2 is gunna shoot you down if you attack it from the back why do people still do it and then complain on here about it?

 

If a Pe2 is flying away full throttle at the deck and you are in an E7 which is barely faster, it isn't really possible to attack from another angle, even with a lot of altitude advantage. The only alternative is to not attack the Pe2 at all, which by now, most people are doing. Well, lucky Pe2 pilots I guess. 

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57 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

If a Pe2 is flying away full throttle at the deck and you are in an E7 which is barely faster, it isn't really possible to attack from another angle, even with a lot of altitude advantage. The only alternative is to not attack the Pe2 at all, which by now, most people are doing. Well, lucky Pe2 pilots I guess. 

 

Maybe Pe-2 shouldn't be available before 109 F4, which is older (Combat debut: June 1941 vs July 1941 for ser. 35).

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5 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

 

Maybe Pe-2 shouldn't be available before 109 F4, which is older (Combat debut: June 1941 vs July 1941 for ser. 35).

 

Well, as already said, TaW isn't historical but uses their own battlerating for plane sets. That said, even with an F4 it will be a problem.

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Well, as already said, TaW isn't historical but uses their own battlerating for plane sets.

 

Please stop repeating this nonsense. 

 

 

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Unfortunately back in BoM days Devs sort of took the easy way and played this copy&paste technique, bringing Pe-2 ser. 35. That was a little bit disappointing since a lot of guys (me included) were counting on Il-4 as proper horizontal bomber for RED.

Either way, there is no alternative for early Soviet bomber in game right now. If you remove Pe-2 you might as well remove all depots on Map 1 and 2 since Red side wont be able to bust them just with Il-2s.

And its not like Pe-2 is totally immune, there are 110s available for Blue pilots.

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1 minute ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

Please stop repeating this nonsense. 

 

Nonsense? Apparently you have no idea about history then.

If I were you, i'd do some research when the aircraft became operational in real life. Then you will quickly realize that it has not a lot in common with the in-game plane sets

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3 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Unfortunately back in BoM days Devs sort of took the easy way and played this copy&paste technique, bringing Pe-2 ser. 35. That was a little bit disappointing since a lot of guys (me included) were counting on Il-4 as proper horizontal bomber for RED.

Either way, there is no alternative for early Soviet bomber in game right now. If you remove Pe-2 you might as well remove all depots on Map 1 and 2 since Red side wont be able to bust them just with Il-2s.

And its not like Pe-2 is totally immune, there are 110s available for Blue pilots.

 

True to the point.

I only don't understand the last sentence. Is the 110 faster than 109E-7? Just asking.

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1 minute ago, I./JG1_Pragr said:

I only don't understand the last sentence. Is the 110 faster than 109E-7? Just asking.

 

No, but it has more firepower and can endure more damage, so it is a "safer" method to attack Pe2s in the current scenario. 

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23 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

Nonsense? Apparently you have no idea about history then.

If I were you, i'd do some research when the aircraft became operational in real life. Then you will quickly realize that it has not a lot in common with the in-game plane sets

 

You are spreading lies when saying that the TAW devs have some sort of battlerating for planes. I also won't engage in some sort of history battle with a wikipedia warrior.

 

With the current aircrafts available it is impossible to create a 100% accurate historical setting, mostly because engine settings are fixed and can't be changed for aircrafts. That being said, they try to find a healthy mix between historical settings and balance. While I'd like to be more on the historical side, there are some valid points for changing minor things for balance.

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7 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

You are spreading lies when saying that the TAW devs have some sort of battlerating for planes. I also won't engage in some sort of history battle with a wikipedia warrior.

 

With the current aircrafts available it is impossible to create a 100% accurate historical setting, mostly because engine settings are fixed and can't be changed for aircrafts. That being said, they try to find a healthy mix between historical settings and balance. While I'd like to be more on the historical side, there are some valid points for changing minor things for balance.

 

Well, so you actually agree with me that it is actual balancing. There is no official battlerating, but the way the aircraft sets are setup, it is like an artificial battlerating. F4 coming in at the same time as the Yak (in history it was 1 year sooner, actually even before the Mig-3 we have), La-5 at the same time like 190-A3 (which came more then half a year sooner) etc. it's pretty much this case in every battle. You could create accurate historical settings - by using just the aircraft sets, the devs chose for the respective timeframes (including some more like F4 for BoM).

But TaW people decided against it because of balance (otherwise we would see F4 against Ishak at map 1, and going on like this...).

I am fine with this artificial balance. But claiming this to be historically correct is kinda ridiculous

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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34 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

F4 coming in at the same time as the Yak (in history it was 1 year sooner, actually even before the Mig-3 we have), La-5 at the same time like 190-A3 (which came more then half a year sooner) etc. it's pretty much this case in every battle. You could create accurate historical settings - by using just the aircraft sets, the devs chose for the respective timeframes (including some more like F4 for BoM).

 

That's exactly where you are mistaken. You can't compare a late F4 to an early F4. Yet in game we only have the late variant of the F4. Comparing introduction dates is therefor misleading.

 

As long as the devs don't add different engines/power settings as options (like with the La5 for example) you won't be able to make it more historical.

Edited by Operation_Ivy
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1 minute ago, Operation_Ivy said:

That's exactly where you are mistaken. You can't compare a late F4 to an early F4. Yet in game we only have the late variant of the F4. Comparing introduction dates is therefor misleading.

 

As long as the devs don't add different engines as options (like with the La5 for example) you won't be able to make it more historical.

 

There is no late and early F4. They had the same performance from day 1. It's also not the only aircraft, it is the case for the whole aircraft set from start to finish of the TaW campaign. Ju-88 we have came sooner then Pe2 we have. 190-A5 came sooner then La5F. 109-G2 came at the same time then Yak-1. I could go on like this for ages, because it is the case for most of the aircraft. Just read about the aircraft and you'll see for yourself

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51 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Unfortunately back in BoM days Devs sort of took the easy way and played this copy&paste technique, bringing Pe-2 ser. 35. That was a little bit disappointing since a lot of guys (me included) were counting on Il-4 as proper horizontal bomber for RED.

Either way, there is no alternative for early Soviet bomber in game right now. If you remove Pe-2 you might as well remove all depots on Map 1 and 2 since Red side wont be able to bust them just with Il-2s. 

And its not like Pe-2 is totally immune, there are 110s available for Blue pilots.

 

That is a valid solution -- to remove the depots and the level bombers (at least on map 1 & 2). Even the name Tactical suggests something different from high altitude bombing of strategic targets deep inside enemy territory...

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24 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

There is no late and early F4. They had the same performance from day 1.

 

But they had different ata clearence as far as i know (1.3 ata compared to 1.42 ata later). You might just want to go back a few pages. There is a long discussion about it when the F4 was made available on map#2 and why this wasn't historical. 

Edited by Operation_Ivy

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Quote

 

It seems i can't  write to  =LG=Kathon directly so I try here - need help ty a.s.a.p. plz 

 

Hi,

Since I no longer wanted the stupid generic created player nickname (which could not be changed) that is automatically created for one when you do not have an account at IL2 but would only play through Steam, I have today created an account at IL2 as Redich and now at TAW here too. Could TAW please delete my other account here with TAW?

Previous nick and account were: Player-13844

On my new account here at TAW, it shows I have aircrafts that I can use but on the server are all airplanes with a lock symbol - both on axsis and on red. Maybe this is because I still have the old account active. As I can tell, there was no possibility for me to delete the old profile at TAW.

So now I try it this way around :)

 

I have also send this to https://www.stg2immelmann.de/ on contact page :help:

Edited by Redich

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11 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

But they had different ata clearence as far as i know. You might just want to go back a few pages. There is a long discussion about it when the F4 was made available on map#2 and why this wasn't historical. 

 

That's right, but the 1min of 1.4 doesn't make a noteworthy difference. And this is not the only aircraft that doesn't fit the historical timeframe.

 

At the time of TaW map#1 the 109-E7 was already outdated and only used for ground attack. Fighters were made up by a mixture of F2 and F4, while Russians mostly had I-16 and even many older models (and no P40s). Germans also had already the Ju-88. Yet in the game it's 109-E7 against I16 - clearly for balance, real life aircraft set would be vastly out of balance and surely no fun for the Russian side.

 

At summer of 42 in Stalingrad German fighters were (still) made up of F4 and G2s were coming in, while the Russians fielded Lagg-3 (which fits in TaW), I16 and older Yaks (not nearly the performance of Yak-1 in game). At the same time Germany also used already the 190-A3 in the Eastern front. This wouldn't be as bad for the Russians as map1, but probably still not too much fun and unbalanced. At Stalingrad winter the Yak-1 and the La5 came in and balanced the playing field for the first time (not entirely, but brought it closer). Shortly after the 190-A5 came out (before the Yak-1 S.127 or the La-5F, who are there in game). I could also keep on like this, bringing other aircraft in. It works both ways, the Kanonenvogel (Stuka with cannons) also came a lot later then in TaW. 

Still I am just writing this to show that TaW has the planesets for balance, and not for historical accuracy.

And let me state again - I am fine with that, otherwise the Russian side would have no fun in the first few missions. 

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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45 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

"... Yet in the game it's 109-E7 against I16 - clearly for balance, real life aircraft set would be vastly out of balance and surely no fun for the Russian side.."

 

Exactly.

 

47 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

... "And let me state again - I am fine with that, otherwise the Russian side would have no fun in the first few missions. "

 

Case closed.

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On 11/30/2018 at 7:54 PM, [GCA]T1m270 said:

We did a flight over it to recon, could see NO targets at the map marker ingame. We thought it was a bug or somehow linked to another objective?

 Allied warehouse was generated in the mission #57. Buildings should be visible.

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3 hours ago, OpticFlow said:

 

Maybe Pe-2 shouldn't be available before 109 F4, which is older (Combat debut: June 1941 vs July 1941 for ser. 35).


But we don't have the earlier SB-2, DB-3, Su-2...
 

3 hours ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Unfortunately back in BoM days Devs sort of took the easy way and played this copy&paste technique, bringing Pe-2 ser. 35. That was a little bit disappointing since a lot of guys (me included) were counting on Il-4 as proper horizontal bomber for RED.

 

I think it had more to do with the Battle of Moscow in late 1941 having a prevalence of Pe-2s already as the main daylight bomber? That being said a DB-3F/IL-4 was planned for Moscow and there are some WIP 3D models and cockpit models out there, but it wasn't finished sadly.
 

2 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

That's right, but the 1min of 1.4 doesn't make a noteworthy difference. And this is not the only aircraft that doesn't fit the historical timeframe.

 

At the time of TaW map#1 the 109-E7 was already outdated and only used for ground attack. Fighters were made up by a mixture of F2 and F4, while Russians mostly had I-16 and even many older models (and no P40s). Germans also had already the Ju-88. Yet in the game it's 109-E7 against I16 - clearly for balance, real life aircraft set would be vastly out of balance and surely no fun for the Russian side.

 

At summer of 42 in Stalingrad German fighters were (still) made up of F4 and G2s were coming in, while the Russians fielded Lagg-3 (which fits in TaW), I16 and older Yaks (not nearly the performance of Yak-1 in game). At the same time Germany also used already the 190-A3 in the Eastern front. This wouldn't be as bad for the Russians as map1, but probably still not too much fun and unbalanced. At Stalingrad winter the Yak-1 and the La5 came in and balanced the playing field for the first time (not entirely, but brought it closer). Shortly after the 190-A5 came out (before the Yak-1 S.127 or the La-5F, who are there in game). I could also keep on like this, bringing other aircraft in. It works both ways, the Kanonenvogel (Stuka with cannons) also came a lot later then in TaW. 

Still I am just writing this to show that TaW has the planesets for balance, and not for historical accuracy.

And let me state again - I am fine with that, otherwise the Russian side would have no fun in the first few missions. 

 

In the F-4 you can use intermediate settings, like 1.37 ata which is usable for around 5 mins, and brings similar performance to 1.42 ata.

The first map is a compromise so people can use the early planes which started as a "lets give them this and see if they like it", and people liked it quite a bit, so it stayed. It also gives some love to the P-40E and MC 202 which in their accurate Stalingrad timeframe weren't used that much.
 

Thing is we don't have a Barbarrossa Operation expansion, we have the later Battle of Moscow one, that's why we lack some of the earlier Soviet stuff. And even for Moscow the Soviets don't get early Yak fighters which would be interesting (and usable for the early 1942 period as well).

 

Trying to simulate Barbarossa Operation with this planeset doesn't work all that well for the Soviet side, it works for the German side since most of the planes were the same.


With the planes we have the first map should be Battle of Moscow with MiG-3 and I-16 vs 109 F-2 as fighters basically. Because of the lack of early Soviet planes (mainly bombers and attackers) we can't have a proper Barbarossa Operation map.
 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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4 hours ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Unfortunately back in BoM days Devs sort of took the easy way and played this copy&paste technique, bringing Pe-2 ser. 35. That was a little bit disappointing since a lot of guys (me included) were counting on Il-4 as proper horizontal bomber for RED.

Either way, there is no alternative for early Soviet bomber in game right now. If you remove Pe-2 you might as well remove all depots on Map 1 and 2 since Red side wont be able to bust them just with Il-2s.

And its not like Pe-2 is totally immune, there are 110s available for Blue pilots.

 

IL-4 is a long-range night bomber, used as a front-line bomber very rarely, in exceptional cases. If you need horizontal bomber, air force, for 1941. SB will be relevant in different modifications, and in the later period can not escape from the in-game PE-2 as the most widespread and universal machines.

 

 

Once again, in all its glory manifested the problem of the lack of the air force of the red army landing aircraft. Just to clarify, server developers are planning to wait for the Li-2 or can balance, planet making available landing Ju 52 for the red army air force....?

 

Wanted to clarify why immediately after the capture of the airfield of the German troops it is available for UPS next mission. After the capture of the airfield red tanks airfield another mission remains unavailable. It's planned..? If Yes..it is possible to clarify the logic...?

Edited by =FPS=Cutlass

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:30 PM, MentalishMan said:

 

 

Sounds more like a Problem of "Solo German Pilot" Syndrome than anything else. 

 

 

 

Argue more your point? Btw I was not alone.

 

:bye:

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57 x 22 (+5 spectators) and no way to get in to help balance.

Edited by SCG_Riksen

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2 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

57 x 22 (+5 spectators) and no way to get in to help balance.

 

No issue here...move along.

 

Edit: Can't believe the irony is lost on some people. So here it is: this was ironic.

Edited by Operation_Ivy
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44 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

57 x 22 (+5 spectators) and no way to get in to help balance.

 

All the places are occupied by u-52 with paratroopers .....:lol:

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1 hour ago, SCG_Riksen said:

There is no irony only an issue. Not being able to join the side in disadvantage is an issue.

 

And now it's absolutely the other way round and stays the same for at least the next 10 hours...nothing to see here.😵 Odd that i have always seen the reds whining about numbers, while more then half of the day the blues are heavily outnumbered. Don't see blues whining around because of that

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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28 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

And now it's absolutely the other way round and stays the same for at least the next 10 hours...nothing to see here.😵 Odd that i have always seen the reds whining about numbers, while more then half of the day the blues are heavily outnumbered. Don't see blues whining around because of that

"Heavily Outnumbered" are we talking about when the Server is jam packed 84/84 or when its like 42/84 or 30/84? I mean I can go back and look at I dunno Missions 95 to 99 Thats like what 8ish Hours of Missions? Now lets look at the Unique number of players that were at least on the server for a hand full of minutes and wow would you look at that 3/4 of them are less than 30ish total Unique players getting on and Mission 95 having around 60. This inst "heavily out numbered" this is "Not a lot of players get on and only a hand full of VSS and Axis Players getting on". If we were "Heavily OutNumbering" y'all during the Night time we would've won this mission ten fold with PE-2 Bombing Runs. Its not like when the Germans have more than 40-50 people on during the EU prime time every single day while the Allied players in the EU prime time get hella shafted with "Heavily Outnumbering" Axis Players. The only days we are able to counter the EU PrimeTime  is when the NA players play on the Weekends. 

Edited by MentalishMan
Editing.

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On 12/1/2018 at 5:47 AM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Gunners from that game are extraterrestrial, so counter this by decreasing their level. 

 

 

Guess how I can tell you don't fly bombers.....

On 12/1/2018 at 1:04 PM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

and, yes, there IS a problem with gunners. 

 

 

 

I'm red this round but I'm usually in a 109 as my Staffel tag implies, it's you. Stay out of the PE2 firing arc, easy peesy...... Low six is bad, shallow angle high six is bad. less than 45 degree attack from port or starboard is bad.

 

Belly shots or vertical top down attacks. Go for steep angle belly shots pull them to the deck then work them from high.

 

Turning down the AA or gunners makes the bombers too easy to kill and bombers roll targets too fast for any defense to be thrown up. I'm usually in fighters but have found myself enjoying bombers more and more. Change your fighter tactics and adjust to this being a game. A lot of real life tactics don't work. That said, a lot do too.

 

 

10 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

Nonsense? Apparently you have no idea about history then.

If I were you, i'd do some research when the aircraft became operational in real life. Then you will quickly realize that it has not a lot in common with the in-game plane sets

 

 

This is a little unfair. We have gaps in the plane set.

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Can someone explain what happened here? Lots of "what?" moments in these pictures

 

I know the second wasn't the most accurate, but the 2 bombs left almost no damage on the factories.  I checked my sortie log afterwards and aside from that single burning building (which suffered a direct hit) everything else was unscathed.  

 

Also, in that sortie, one explosion is much smaller than the typical "nuke" you'd see from a 1000kg bomb.  Did the game register my first bomb as a smaller 500kg bomb?

 

Do the buildings in TAW have more health depending on their size?

 

 

2018_12_4__2_47_7.jpg

2018_12_4__2_48_13.jpg

2018_12_4__2_48_34.jpg

Capture.JPG

Edited by =KG76=flyus747

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