Jump to content
=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:

an artilleryman comfortably sits on a stable 350 km platform watching a plane in a predictable trajectory, precisely because of its high speed, and the fighter, is piloting, aiming in a plane maneuvered at high g and 700kmh. Who has more facility to hit? The only advantage of the fighter is its size and firepower, things that do not guarantee to emerge unscathed

 

seems like you have very little knowledge of air gunnery. It was incredibly difficult to shoot something down accurately, it was more on a spray and pray basis. That's why bombers were *only* flown in formation to maximize the spray. Bombers who fell out of formation were a very easy target and didn't make it home usually.

 

Something that i rarely hear when it comes to this discussion is that the AI rear gunner not only provides a random good or not so good protection but also calls out incoming enemy, which is a big advantage. 

 

The problem i have with AI gunners is the randomness and sometimes wonky over the top behavior where they act out of the boundaries a human can possibly do. Human controlled gunners wouldn't be half as effective as the ai ace gunners. 

 

In the end, this discussion was brought up many times and =LG= decided that this is the best possibly way to deal with many issues. In the very least the situation now is way better than a couple of campaigns ago where every gunner was on ace difficulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

seems like you have very little knowledge of air gunnery

 

 



It's possible, I suppose you have many more flight hours than me as a bomber gunner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:

It's possible, I suppose you have many more flight hours than me as a bomber gunner

 

It's just that you seem to think that a gunner in a bomber had an easier time shooting down an attacking fighter than the other way around, which is absolutely not true. At least when talking a single bomber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

I love when People only start to complain about certain Things, when something bad happend to them caused by that issue. For example losing a killstreak.

 

I've already complained about extraterrestrial gunners, and I'm not the only one.

 

:bye:

  • Haha 2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

~WordsWordsWords~

 

 

I'm on the same page, 100%.  TAW is beyond brutal to ground attackers.  It's obvious from how Pe-2s and P-40s are the ride of choice for the Soviet tank killers right now, and once the 190 appears there is no reason to fly any ground attacker ever again for Axis.  The AA we face is on the same level as radar guided gun systems.

 

Historical attack patterns absolutely do not work on TAW except for their own sake, at the price of suicide. 

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no problem with gunners.

I understand that now theres a lot of instant gratification crowd, who instead of  changing some tactics  prefer to whine and complain...

 

Check out some of the Sheriffs videos - during one of the late taws he didnt loose even one plane to pe2 while at the same time shoot down many bombers, while following few simple rules.

 

When I fly bombers I gun myself and see all those straight line or almost straight line approaches. When You are  approaching form the six (or 12) in straight line or slightly curvate path even flying 700km'h I still have to move only slightly the gun more or less in the attacker flight path and hold the trigger . You will be hit each time when you buzz by... (not to speak about the scenario when you sit for ages on the bomber six)

 

Same is with aaa -You need only one who will drag the aaa guns and the others can attack unopposed. Of course theres some need for proper timing and coordination but its quite easy

 

With some training even single dive bomber can attack without much problems, but has to remember not to dive in straight line. You need to change not only the speed and altitude but also the angle, so the attack must be with a continous turn in a dive (in this case the change of the course doesnt have to be significant to throw the aaa aim off) . It needs of course some practice to be able to hit something that way but if you want to stick to lown Wolf tactics and do diving attacks and not level bombing its the safest way. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which is why in your Sortie History the only Ground Kills are scored with He-111 while you use your Bf110 to kill Peshkas and Gunship I-16s in the 111. 

I also love reading the Records of Fighter Pilots, dragging Flak back in Stalingrad, as the Soviet Gunners totally only engaged them instead of the 4 Bombers homing in on them.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spoke from my experience flying many previous taws doing both sides.

During current i didnt have much time to fly so i flown only few sorties And they happen to be on 2win engines.

Anyway i find 110 a real pe2 killer 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

I spoke from my experience flying many previous taws doing both sides.

During current i didnt have much time to fly so i flown only few sorties And they happen to be on 2win engines.

Anyway i find 110 a real pe2 killer 

 

You know how in a good Story, like Lord of the Rings, Book of Ice and Fire or Harry Potter (References of a now 24 Year old)  you spend time with your favourite Characters, grow to identify and love them and it tears you apart when any of them die? 

 

Well, TAW is like the Walking Dead, interesting in the beginning, but now you stopped caring or watching, too many Faces, no Time, everybody just dies in quick Sequence? The Indifference in even a Main Characters Death because the Show stops building Characters but lives to tear them down and kill them off? And the Villains are the same, just different Faces?

 

There was a Time when you could fly TAW meaningfully, when you valued your Virtual Life and it became a bit precious, so you actually tried to survive at all cost? 

Well, when you die every 3rd Flight that Stops and as with the Walking Dead, interest slowly dies off. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

There is no problem with gunners.

I understand that now theres a lot of instant gratification crowd, who instead of  changing some tactics  prefer to whine and complain...

 

Check out some of the Sheriffs videos - during one of the late taws he didnt loose even one plane to pe2 while at the same time shoot down many bombers, while following few simple rules.

 

When I fly bombers I gun myself and see all those straight line or almost straight line approaches. When You are  approaching form the six (or 12) in straight line or slightly curvate path even flying 700km'h I still have to move only slightly the gun more or less in the attacker flight path and hold the trigger . You will be hit each time when you buzz by... (not to speak about the scenario when you sit for ages on the bomber six)

 

Same is with aaa -You need only one who will drag the aaa guns and the others can attack unopposed. Of course theres some need for proper timing and coordination but its quite easy

 

With some training even single dive bomber can attack without much problems, but has to remember not to dive in straight line. You need to change not only the speed and altitude but also the angle, so the attack must be with a continous turn in a dive (in this case the change of the course doesnt have to be significant to throw the aaa aim off) . It needs of course some practice to be able to hit something that way but if you want to stick to lown Wolf tactics and do diving attacks and not level bombing its the safest way. 

 

You don't get it, do you?

People told about historical attack pattern and you start telling stuff about some (unhistoric) hacks to manage some attacks without getting killed. And start about "instant gratification crowd". In a sim. In a dead is dead online campaign. People who do ground attack. That's just hilarious..well and disgusting. We don't need that.

 

Nothing is fine. Pe2s fell like flies against 109s in the real world, in early parts of the war there were k/d between 12 and 20:1. Bombers have always been easy prey when not protected by fighters, even B-17 or B-24, which are on a whole different level then Pe-2s (both in durability and weaponry). I understand that the Red lone wolfs who are used to do their attack runs mostly unscathed don't like the prospect, but the current situation couldn't be further away from reality. 

About AAA Klaus already said everything that has to be said, nothing to add.  

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

There is no problem with gunners.

I understand that now theres a lot of instant gratification crowd, who instead of  changing some tactics  prefer to whine and complain...

 

Check out some of the Sheriffs videos - during one of the late taws he didnt loose even one plane to pe2 while at the same time shoot down many bombers, while following few simple rules.

 

Hahahaha ... Yes, but no. It happened like this: 

 

"They just don't care about the 20mm shells storm exploding all around them on their aircraft, and even more when it's just been shot down. At this time, they say "fuck human capability, resistance, and self control, i'm a super hero" and they manage to kill your pilot few seconds AFTER while you're flying away them at 600/700km/h."

 

It's quite different from behind shot down during the approach, in a high six position, before shells start tearing apart the Pe2. 

And yes I know, that I could make a head on pass on them, or wait a turn for a 90° shot, or loose my time with 4, 5, 6, 7 side/snap shots, etc etc... I know. But in all cases, it's a waste of time, Pe2 will drop their bombs or their escort will fall on you. 

 

And, yes, there IS a problem with gunners. 

 

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, JG4_Widukind said:

Yes you have one, yesterday evening

And ACG Squad and I destroy it. 

 

That would explain it.  Thanks. 

2 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Hahahaha ... Yes, but no. It happened like this: 

 

"They just don't care about the 20mm shells storm exploding all around them on their aircraft, and even more when it's just been shot down. At this time, they say "fuck human capability, resistance, and self control, i'm a super hero" and they manage to kill your pilot few seconds AFTER while you're flying away them at 600/700km/h."

 

It's quite different from behind shot down during the approach, in a high six position, before shells start tearing apart the Pe2. 

And yes I know, that I could make a head on pass on them, or wait a turn for a 90° shot, or loose my time with 4, 5, 6, 7 side/snap shots, etc etc... I know. But in all cases, it's a waste of time, Pe2 will drop their bombs or their escort will fall on you. 

 

And, yes, there IS a problem with gunners. 

 

 

The most telling thing I see here is that there IS a problem with bad tactics and situational awareness vs. said pe-2 and any possible escorts.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Hahahaha ... Yes, but no. It happened like this: 

 

"They just don't care about the 20mm shells storm exploding all around them on their aircraft, and even more when it's just been shot down. At this time, they say "fuck human capability, resistance, and self control, i'm a super hero" and they manage to kill your pilot few seconds AFTER while you're flying away them at 600/700km/h."

 

It's quite different from behind shot down during the approach, in a high six position, before shells start tearing apart the Pe2. 

And yes I know, that I could make a head on pass on them, or wait a turn for a 90° shot, or loose my time with 4, 5, 6, 7 side/snap shots, etc etc... I know. But in all cases, it's a waste of time, Pe2 will drop their bombs or their escort will fall on you. 

 

And, yes, there IS a problem with gunners. 

 

6 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

That would explain it.  Thanks. 

 

The most telling thing I see here is that there IS a problem with bad tactics and situational awareness vs. said pe-2 and any possible escorts.   

 

Sounds more like a Problem of "Solo German Pilot" Syndrome than anything else. 

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yer-2 anybody? .50 cals anybody?

Or literally a single real medium bomber for the allied side to show up?

Literally 90% of encounters are fighters and most cannot take their time to setup and aim for the proper weakpoints. If the Pe-2 puts its nose down and speeds up and points both gunners at you: shit out of luck, you gotta wait till you get a better angle

 

110s Ju88s dont randomly fall apart either, you still have to tag the engines or whack them hard enough in a single spot

 

 

1280px-15th_AF_B-24_Liberator.jpg

 

There's a reason the german focused so heavily on firepower from 43 onwards

Edited by =FEW=N3croo
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, =FEW=N3croo said:

Yer-2 anybody? .50 cals anybody?

Or literally a single real medium bomber for the allied side to show up?

Literally 90% of encounters are fighters and most cannot take their time to setup and aim for the proper weakpoints. If the Pe-2 puts its nose down and speeds up and points both gunners at you: shit out of luck, you gotta wait till you get a better angle

 

110s Ju88s dont randomly fall apart either, you still have to tag the engines or whack them hard enough in a single spot

 

 

1280px-15th_AF_B-24_Liberator.jpg

 

There's a reason the german focused so heavily on firepower from 43 onwards

Gib B-25 Mitchell, B-26 Marauder or A-26 Invaded Pls, I would love to have another Medium Bomber of decent capacity for the Allies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, =FEW=N3croo said:

 

There's a reason the german focused so heavily on firepower from 43 onwards

 

Yes, namely B-24 and B-17 but definitely not Pe2 🙄 

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question : what triggers a tank attack?

I feel like Russian tanks are always attacking, while Germans are stuck in defensive on almost every mission.

Is there a way to enhance the chance of having a tank attack on next mission?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

Quick question : what triggers a tank attack?

I feel like Russian tanks are always attacking, while Germans are stuck in defensive on almost every mission.

Is there a way to enhance the chance of having a tank attack on next mission?

Attacking the Airfield directly I think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Attacking the Airfield directly I think. 

 

I guess no, because if it depends on airfield damages, why is there a Russian tank column attacking Temkino right now (11% damaged) and not a German tank column attacking Zenino? (50% damaged)

 

It's annoying, during the last 3 maps (including the one being played right now) Russians had 5 offensive tank column, Germans only one (and a really bad one, since it tried to attack Ryabinki = the column was completely wiped out of the map in 30 minutes...)

Edited by -IRRE-Centx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Yes, namely B-24 and B-17 but definitely not Pe2 🙄 

By 1941 none of those where around and the RAAF was dabbling with .303s. and germany fucking around with slow velocity mg FFs.

Pe-2s have more solid gunner angles are pretty maneuverable and are faster than any german bomber at pretty much any altitude yet they are still soviet garbage machines in your eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

You don't get it, do you?

People told about historical attack pattern and you start telling stuff about some (unhistoric) hacks to manage some attacks without getting killed. And start about "instant gratification crowd". In a sim. In a dead is dead online campaign. People who do ground attack. That's just hilarious..well and disgusting. We don't need that.

 

Nothing is fine. Pe2s fell like flies against 109s in the real world, in early parts of the war there were k/d between 12 and 20:1. Bombers have always been easy prey when not protected by fighters, even B-17 or B-24, which are on a whole different level then Pe-2s (both in durability and weaponry). I understand that the Red lone wolfs who are used to do their attack runs mostly unscathed don't like the prospect, but the current situation couldn't be further away from reality. 

About AAA Klaus already said everything that has to be said, nothing to add.  

hacks?  The tactic where one plane is distracting the air defenses while other is taking it out, was widely used with much success during Wietnam war, middle east conflicts and so on. Its hardly a hack. it was developed do decrease the looses where relatively small flights were attacking defended targets (more or less like taw ). When we would talk historic ww2 , You would have to come with at least 12-24 planes attack formations (or as it was even more common  - several squadrons). attack with 12 planes (or even 6) on Taw a target from several directions and see what happens.

 

If You attack all from one direction it'll be like a Black friday:  Quote " on 9 February, Milson led  32 Beaufighters into the air from Dallachy... The strike force was joined by either ten or twelve P-51 Mustang fighters from No. 65 Squadron RAF... The narrow confines of the fjord meant that the Beaufighters had to attack from a single direction and would not be able to swamp the German defences as they normally sought to do... Aftermtch : the German ships had shot down seven Beaufighters…"

 

As for PE2: quote: "Pe-2s crews had the greatest success in repelling the attacks of enemy fighters in June and July 1941. On 1 July, for example, six Pe-2s fended off attacks by four Messerschmitt Bf 109s, shooting down two of them. A week later a group of Pe-2s was attacked by four Bf 109 and again brought down two of the attackers. On both occasions the Petlyakovs suffered no losses..."  "German pilots soon discovered the limited sighting angles of the ventral gun mounting" - so maybe You are not learning from your mistakes like the LW did and your attack angles are not so superb …

 

how did he hit me? I was coming form his six.. no way its unhistoric and overpowered… I'll go and whine on the forum...

 

 

  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@-IRRE-Centx The more the depot is damaged the more tanks the enemy gets and also the more territory is owned by one side. Leads to a bit of a snowball effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, a historical Issue I have is that the Pe-2-110 series Turret is available around the same time the F-4 comes in, so late 41 in TAW Terms, which makes it a early 1943 Aircraft against late 41 Aircraft. 

If you wanted to be even more particular, the more heavily armored Pe-2 with M.105PF wasn't a Thing in 1941 either, but more mid to late 1942. 

 

The Turret should only be available once the 109G-6 and 190s are available, they fall in the same Timeframe, and the 87 series should come later in general. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

9 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, a historical Issue I have is that the Pe-2-110 series Turret is available around the same time the F-4 comes in, so late 41 in TAW Terms, which makes it a early 1943 Aircraft against late 41 Aircraft. 

If you wanted to be even more particular, the more heavily armored Pe-2 with M.105PF wasn't a Thing in 1941 either, but more mid to late 1942. 

 

The Turret should only be available once the 109G-6 and 190s are available, they fall in the same Timeframe, and the 87 series should come later in general. 

I'm cool with that. I avoid using the turret anyway.  It blocks my rearward visibility when being attacked on 6.  Give us tail gunner AI that can call out the attacker's position relative to the bomber and I might reconsider. 

 

The only concession I'll willingly give about AAA is that I don't recall them ever firing at more than 1 target at a time.  They all seem to concentrate fire and don't cover their 'zone'.

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Psyrion said:

@-IRRE-Centx The more the depot is damaged the more tanks the enemy gets and also the more territory is owned by one side. Leads to a bit of a snowball effect.

 

Ok thanks

 

Well map#2 is already lost, since many Germans seem to have no idea what to do on the map...

Russian coordination is way better, I honestly expect them to win easy the whole campaign (and they were crying about unbalance few days ago *facepalm*)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, a historical Issue I have is that the Pe-2-110 series Turret is available around the same time the F-4 comes in, so late 41 in TAW Terms, which makes it a early 1943 Aircraft against late 41 Aircraft. 

If you wanted to be even more particular, the more heavily armored Pe-2 with M.105PF wasn't a Thing in 1941 either, but more mid to late 1942. 

 

The Turret should only be available once the 109G-6 and 190s are available, they fall in the same Timeframe, and the 87 series should come later in general. 

Valid, we still had one intermediate turret design on the "FT". Given that we still lack any medium bomber or LL later A-20 variants or B-25s i could not feel less empathy for LW only aces :coffee:

 

I still will respect actual pointing out of inaccuracies and documentation but this constant opinionated LW is stronkest shows a lack of willingness to adapt and study.

The turret is nice, but it makes no difference if the tactics aren't used by the waffles and really they rarely do a proper approach.

 

 

 image.png.94bd088cd12cc4a7c11075a53e7bff8a.pngimage.thumb.png.7be9ce86651223143e2a0f9ebe0afcf3.png

image.png.d6289466d34e8be934b8fdb7eeb40252.png

Edited by =FEW=N3croo
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

Ok thanks

 

Well map#2 is already lost, since many Germans seem to have no idea what to do on the map...

Russian coordination is way better, I honestly expect them to win easy the whole campaign (and they were crying about unbalance few days ago *facepalm*)

 

Winning and balance are 2 different things. *facepalm*

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

hacks?  The tactic where one plane is distracting the air defenses while other is taking it out, was widely used with much success during Wietnam war, middle east conflicts and so on. Its hardly a hack. it was developed do decrease the looses where relatively small flights were attacking defended targets (more or less like taw ). When we would talk historic ww2 , You would have to come with at least 12-24 planes attack formations (or as it was even more common  - several squadrons). attack with 12 planes (or even 6) on Taw a target from several directions and see what happens.

 

If You attack all from one direction it'll be like a Black friday:  Quote " on 9 February, Milson led  32 Beaufighters into the air from Dallachy... The strike force was joined by either ten or twelve P-51 Mustang fighters from No. 65 Squadron RAF... The narrow confines of the fjord meant that the Beaufighters had to attack from a single direction and would not be able to swamp the German defences as they normally sought to do... Aftermtch : the German ships had shot down seven Beaufighters…"

 

 

 

 

There is little comparison to be made between the WW2 clash of great powers with layered state-of-the-art analog anti-aircraft guns and asymmetric conflicts with relatively anemic radar guided SAM-based air defenses.  In the event of a war between the USA and the Soviet Union in Germany during the 1980s, for example, the Soviet jets flying ground strike missions would use valleys protected by forested hills at very low altitude to attempt to move through the layered, integrated American air defense net.  If they did what works on TAW, where you send one bait plane high at 1-1.5Km altitude to hang out and attract attention, they would be vaporized.

 

With your second point:  There is also an obvious difference between a group of aircraft that could attack from any angle all attacking from a single direction and a group of aircraft that can only attack from one direction all attacking from that direction and the effect on the disposition and sighting of AA guns covering that location.

 

Make no mistake, the AA we are dealing with is this:

6q2b0wl0jmqy.jpg

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

Ok thanks

 

Well map#2 is already lost, since many Germans seem to have no idea what to do on the map...

Russian coordination is way better, I honestly expect them to win easy the whole campaign (and they were crying about unbalance few days ago *facepalm*)

Says the side that can Easily Take back Airfields with Paratroopers while the Russians can only Push Airfields With tanks.😂👌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, a historical Issue I have is that the Pe-2-110 series Turret is available around the same time the F-4 comes in, so late 41 in TAW Terms, which makes it a early 1943 Aircraft against late 41 Aircraft. 

If you wanted to be even more particular, the more heavily armored Pe-2 with M.105PF wasn't a Thing in 1941 either, but more mid to late 1942. 

 

The Turret should only be available once the 109G-6 and 190s are available, they fall in the same Timeframe, and the 87 series should come later in general. 

 

Thing is, TaW has never been about history. The aircraft set on each map is only about balance and dependent on a kind of battle rating, how it is used in War Thunder. At least regarding fighters. What's not thought of is, that the Germans don't have anything that comes close to the overall ground attack capabilities of the Pe2. This way, the Russians almost won round 1 even though being quite outnumbered. I think TAW will be a no-contest until the 190 or the G6 arive in bigger numbers

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
  • Confused 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

What's not thought of is, that the Germans don't have anything that comes close to the overall ground attack capabilities of the Pe2. This way, the Russians almost won round 1 even though being quite outnumbered. I think TAW will be a no-contest until the 190 or the G6 arive in bigger numbers.

 

I'm interested in hearing your explanation as to why the Bf-110 is below-par to a Pe-2.  I mean, besides a bunch of 109/190 pilots having to waste precious Hartmann time setting up their controls menu for twin engine flight. 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'm interested in hearing your explanation as to why the Bf-110 is below-par to a Pe-2.  I mean, besides a bunch of 109/190 pilots having to waste precious Hartmann time setting up their controls menu for twin engine flight. 

 

Well there is no doubt that the 110 is inferior to the Pe-2 but the Ju-88 is a great bomber that fits the meta of lines of tanks very well with its bomb loadout. Some might even argue that blue has the better ground capabilities, though the IL-2 is a great tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

Well there is no doubt that the 110 is inferior to the Pe-2 but the Ju-88 is a great bomber that fits the meta of lines of tanks very well with its bomb loadout. Some might even argue that blue has the better ground capabilities, though the IL-2 is a great tool.


Before this latest patch - absolutely.

 

After this patch and the way the tank DM is...well. Red's ground attack advantage is nullified. (LW still holds advantage in level bombing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'm interested in hearing your explanation as to why the Bf-110 is below-par to a Pe-2.  I mean, besides a bunch of 109/190 pilots having to waste precious Hartmann time setting up their controls menu for twin engine flight. 

 

It's a lot less durable and more noticably, it's gunners are a joke compared to the Pe2. Seriously, i had my oil radiator shot up again on my first pass, diving on a Pe2 with almost 800kph. That's a joke. I was flying Russian quite a lot but can't remember a single time a German bomber actually killed my fighter off, even if i was a lot less cautios. There is a huge discrepancy right now, Pe2 is really easy mode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naw, Manu, you were just unlucky. Might sound embarassing, but we lost two MiGs to a StuKa which had an Ace gunner - simply entering its firing arc was enough to set the MiGs on fire. Both dove at an angle at roughly 500kph. His buddy before, the other Ju-87, had a rookie gunner which didn't hit jack scheibenkleister. Didn't see us crying "Stuka OP!!!1" on the forums though!

 

So what you're witnessing is this: You are attacking diving Pe-2s way more often than Russians are attacking diving Ju-88. Except for JG4 (rare as well!), when do we see any kind of large German bomber formations - let alone Ju-88 - diving at high speeds?

 

Couple that with random gunner ability, normal distribution, and you have a good recipe for some super stronk confirmation bias.

 

 

 

P.S. Haven't seen a single He-111 yet. Haven't seen a Ju-88 yet. Rarely see some 110s. Seen 87s once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i had this happen to me for the second time (2 of 2 actually), quite a lot of bad luck i guess. I know many people on blue (amongst them real good pilots with better then 5:1 K/D) who completely stopped attacking Pe2s, because they don't wanna get shot up without actually making a mistake. Quite understandably, after those two getting-togethers i will do it similar, even if i hate that prospect. 

When i flew Russians i never had any problems killing all sorts of German aircraft, no matter which one. No plane came close what i witnessed against the Pe2. That said, the last update seemed to change gunners, so well possible that German gunners got way more precise since as well (not in the 110 though). If that's the case, they should really be changed to rookie overall. A lone bomber/attacker without fighter cover really shouldn't make it home against a fighter who knows what he is doing. The Pe2 is probably the easiest plane to get kills right now 

 

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...