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Tactical Air War

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4 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Currently we have:

 Allies (415 players registered)

 Axis (536 players registered)

 

 

 

 

This looks like the best balance I've seen. Nice one.

 

Looks like evenings North America time stack goes to Red where we can crab back some land.

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PLEASE give Russian pilots at least the P40 right from the start during the early war maps NO ONE wants to fly I-16 especially when the Germans have the Bf109 E It's not even close to fair or more importantly fun!

Edited by Tincannavy
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5 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

My wingman and me just had an server error within 10 minutes..both of us flying, wanting to attack an enemy, woosh, "lost connection to the server". I never had that before in any game. Real bummer. I know it's probably the Devs fault (new update), but i hope this can be sorted soon by any side

agree the "fix" just made things double worst.  2 flights, one disco, next plane falls apart 3 mins after making a pass on a bomber.  Game locks up while in shoot, for 5 mins, then unfreezes itself.  

 

Really bad now.  hope for a new patch, I guess I should have waited on buying that new 47.  :)

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Regardless of the faults with latest patch  If you don't have the best system  speeds and connection regarding Fiber ,copper   (not wireless)   it doesn't help the situation That includes the game host also properly moreso  . 330 ping for me so i don't bother but 50km down the road 180 go figure !

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1 hour ago, Tincannavy said:

PLEASE give Russian pilots at least the P40 right from the start during the early war maps NO ONE wants to fly I-16 especially when the Germans have the Bf109 E It's not even close to fair or more importantly fun!

 

 

Untrue. The I16 is my favorite aircraft to fly in game. I have a lot of fun in it. It can climb with an E7 and outroll it. It can't catch it in a flat run nor out turn it. A few tweaks to the way it's flown and it is a very competitive fighter.

 

I know others enjoy the I16 a lot too.

 

 

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4 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

 

I paid attention in my freshman year sociology class in college (university for you non Americans LOL).

There was a slight imbalance in the numbers skewed to LW in the last campaign - and all the VVS units complained. Now everyone ran the other way at the onset of this campaign to fix the issue. However, this caused an even more imbalance skewed to the VVS this time. The term for this is what is posted above.

 

I think limiting the number based on the numbers of the other side would be better:


IF # of BLUE <=0.5 # of RED THEN LOCK RED, WHEN # of BLUE <1

IF # of RED <= 0.5 # of BLUE THEN LOCK BLUE, WHEN # of RED <1

My logic is when a mission starts - it kicks everyone. So when 2 ppl join BLUE, a max of 4 can join RED and vice versa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Guys - this logic will prevent ppl for obliterating maps when no one is around to fly. =LG= I would seriously look into adding this logic the SQL code I guess you are running. Maybe not 50% but 40% would be the sweet spot.

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1 hour ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Untrue. The I16 is my favorite aircraft to fly in game. I have a lot of fun in it. It can climb with an E7 and outroll it. It can't catch it in a flat run nor out turn it. A few tweaks to the way it's flown and it is a very competitive fighter.

 

E7 can out-turn it, quite easily. 

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1 hour ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

E7 can out-turn it, quite easily. 

That is what Smokejumper said : It [the Ishak] can't catch it [an Emil] in a flat turn nor outturn it

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8 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

 

I paid attention in my freshman year sociology class in college (university for you non Americans LOL).

There was a slight imbalance in the numbers skewed to LW in the last campaign - and all the VVS units complained. Now everyone ran the other way at the onset of this campaign to fix the issue. However, this caused an even more imbalance skewed to the VVS this time. The term for this is what is posted above.

 

I think limiting the number based on the numbers of the other side would be better:


IF # of BLUE <=0.5 # of RED THEN LOCK RED, WHEN # of BLUE <1

IF # of RED <= 0.5 # of BLUE THEN LOCK BLUE, WHEN # of RED <1

My logic is when a mission starts - it kicks everyone. So when 2 ppl join BLUE, a max of 4 can join RED and vice versa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This^ (mostly).  I think a slightly larger margin for imbalance would not really be an issue for most players.  Being outnumbered by a handful of opponents is one thing. A little strategy and smart flying usually can counter it.  Being outnumbered to the point of being little or no resistance is another thing.  Losing one's entire plane set in the course of a single mission can be a deal breaker for most.  

 

I tend to agree that once the player counts for the entire event are averaged out, it shows as mostly balanced for the course of the campaign.  The issue is that on a per-mission basis, one side or the other finds themselves vastly outnumbered.   Only those who are overly optimistic will soldier on without complaint. 

 

I'm starting to see how there are times when both sides find themselves on the losing side of 3v1 or 4v1 during their prime-time hours, and I would think that both sides would have a valid point about imbalance.

 

I think I'm going to do my best from now on to avoid statements of "dog kickers" or "fish barrel shooters" and accept that people, with limited time during the day, just want to play the game they want to play how they want to play it.  I was wrong for jumping on that bandwagon in a moment of frustration.

 

It boils down to the fact that the server program only handles a max of 84 players when double (or triple) would be ideal, and that there's no system in place to dynamically balance team numbers. 

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9 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

I think limiting the number based on the numbers of the other side would be better:


IF # of BLUE <=0.5 # of RED THEN LOCK RED, WHEN # of BLUE <1

IF # of RED <= 0.5 # of BLUE THEN LOCK BLUE, WHEN # of RED <1

My logic is when a mission starts - it kicks everyone. So when 2 ppl join BLUE, a max of 4 can join RED and vice versa.

 

 

^This

 

I would agree on a limiter like this.

A 25 vs 50 situation is hard but still possible with some coordination/strategy.

And it's a war situation, during massive offensives a side could be outnumbered.


Problem is when you have 5 vs 25 or 15 vs 60 situation, this is impossible because the "defending" side has simply not enough players to do something.

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The problem with experience points and transport mission have been fixed.

 

The format of the fuel value in log files was changed by the developers after the last patch so transport planes didn't work.  

 

The new verstion of the TAW script will be started after mission #26

 

 

 

 

 

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I really dislike the idea of limiting logins to the server when there is an imbalance. It's already painful if the server is full: sometimes I cannot play with my friends even if we are the underdogs. I can imagine the side with more players also being frustrated by a hard cap on logging in. If there were ever a cap I think maybe 42 or 50 would be a good number. Imagine if there were 20:5 players online and you couldn't log in to make it 21:5, very frustrating.

 

The airfield lockout mechanic is also painful. I was flying last night in a large group, trying to claw back some ground for VVS. We had half our people spawned at a frontal airfield, when suddenly the airfield shut down. Anyone who had not already spawned needed to use a different airfield. This was a big problem: the escorts, flying short-range I-16s, were now not able to cover the bombers from the rear airfield!

 

I don't expect the mechanics to be changed in the middle of this TAW, so I guess we'll learn to live with it, but psychology suggests that "incentives" are better than "punishment." Maybe we need XP bonuses for pilots flying against larger odds (would this change people's behavior?). Maybe instead of closing front-line airfields we should open a beneficial airfield when a particular side is at a disadvantage. Maybe if airports are opening or closing, we could have a message in chat giving us a 5 minute warning that the airfield is going to open or close. Maybe there is some other way to give a bonus to the weaker side, rather than a punishment for the stronger side (you can't log in, you can't use airfield X are punishments).

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Last night me an another player bounced a mig. we both landed some shots on the mig before he lost control of his plane and ditched in a field. neither of our flight records show us even landing a single hit on the mig though: https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4770&amp;name==SqSq=switch201

 

I am fairly sure we hit him because I saw the hit markers on his plane.

 

The only thing I can think is that it was server lag, and we actually missed, but the player still ended up crashing on his own. Still I don't know if that's for sure what happened. I am wondering if this is happening to any one else

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I hit a pe2 with short burst and wing gone. no hits no kill awarded. but he probably was badly hit by 109 earlier and he was credited wit kill or aaa got him. When someone is killed or destroyed next shots are not counted. BTW there is no migs on this map 

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50 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

Maybe we need XP bonuses for pilots flying against larger odds (would this change people's behavior?).

 

Serious question: who cares about XP?

5% of the players maybe? Even less?

 

9 minutes ago, =SqSq=switch201 said:

Last night me an another player bounced a mig. we both landed some shots on the mig before he lost control of his plane and ditched in a field. neither of our flight records show us even landing a single hit on the mig though: https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4770&amp;name==SqSq=switch201

 

I am fairly sure we hit him because I saw the hit markers on his plane.

 

The only thing I can think is that it was server lag, and we actually missed, but the player still ended up crashing on his own. Still I don't know if that's for sure what happened. I am wondering if this is happening to any one else

 

VVS don't have Migs on map #1, they only have I-16s and P-40s...

Are you really sure about what you saw? :biggrin:

Joke aside, I don't know what could happen to you and your friend. Maybe he was already damaged and tried to break when he saw you coming, and crashed without any hit from you.

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1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

 

 

The airfield lockout mechanic is also painful. I was flying last night in a large group, trying to claw back some ground for VVS. We had half our people spawned at a frontal airfield, when suddenly the airfield shut down. Anyone who had not already spawned needed to use a different airfield. This was a big problem: the escorts, flying short-range I-16s, were now not able to cover the bombers from the rear airfield!

 

 

 

 

It's supposed to be. The numbers imbalance ruins TAW. For the I16 escorts wind down the mixture. You can stay up quite some time.

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I found 100% fuel and lean mixture works wonders if you are coming from the back - you arrive at around 60-75% fuel and you don't need to land where you started so you get to use all of that fuel fighting. If you drop your speed a little you can even get there at 80% fuel easily

Edited by JaffaCake

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VVS don't have Migs on map #1, they only have I-16s and P-40s...

 

I wasn't sure if we had moved on to map 2 or not yet.

 

Hmmmmm well I double checked to make sure I didn't friendly fire someone, so it was definitely an enemy.... could have been an I-16 I had a lot of energy relative to the target so I was just doing very quick passed.

 

It is possible the plane was already dead or dying when I shot him. since he was super low to the ground already. Not sure, will need to record next time I suppose

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3 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I really dislike the idea of limiting logins to the server when there is an imbalance. It's already painful if the server is full: sometimes I cannot play with my friends even if we are the underdogs. I can imagine the side with more players also being frustrated by a hard cap on logging in. If there were ever a cap I think maybe 42 or 50 would be a good number. Imagine if there were 20:5 players online and you couldn't log in to make it 21:5, very frustrating.

 

The airfield lockout mechanic is also painful. I was flying last night in a large group, trying to claw back some ground for VVS. We had half our people spawned at a frontal airfield, when suddenly the airfield shut down. Anyone who had not already spawned needed to use a different airfield. This was a big problem: the escorts, flying short-range I-16s, were now not able to cover the bombers from the rear airfield!

 

I don't expect the mechanics to be changed in the middle of this TAW, so I guess we'll learn to live with it, but psychology suggests that "incentives" are better than "punishment." Maybe we need XP bonuses for pilots flying against larger odds (would this change people's behavior?). Maybe instead of closing front-line airfields we should open a beneficial airfield when a particular side is at a disadvantage. Maybe if airports are opening or closing, we could have a message in chat giving us a 5 minute warning that the airfield is going to open or close. Maybe there is some other way to give a bonus to the weaker side, rather than a punishment for the stronger side (you can't log in, you can't use airfield X are punishments).

 

They are punishments but still allow players to fly which is a good thing. The curreny system is not all harsh to thr imbalance. You are forced to fly for far afs but u can STILL fly. This gives a chance to the minority side and you are saying this is not good. I believe the current limiter associated with a 42 x 42 side cap would make the campaign much more balanced and the missions more enjoyable. Squadrons need to realize they do have a big impact on that and simply saying I only fly one and do not care a about does not work anymore in this small community.

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4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I really dislike the idea of limiting logins to the server when there is an imbalance. It's already painful if the server is full: sometimes I cannot play with my friends even if we are the underdogs. I can imagine the side with more players also being frustrated by a hard cap on logging in. If there were ever a cap I think maybe 42 or 50 would be a good number. Imagine if there were 20:5 players online and you couldn't log in to make it 21:5, very frustrating.

 

The airfield lockout mechanic is also painful. I was flying last night in a large group, trying to claw back some ground for VVS. We had half our people spawned at a frontal airfield, when suddenly the airfield shut down. Anyone who had not already spawned needed to use a different airfield. This was a big problem: the escorts, flying short-range I-16s, were now not able to cover the bombers from the rear airfield!

 

I don't expect the mechanics to be changed in the middle of this TAW, so I guess we'll learn to live with it, but psychology suggests that "incentives" are better than "punishment." Maybe we need XP bonuses for pilots flying against larger odds (would this change people's behavior?). Maybe instead of closing front-line airfields we should open a beneficial airfield when a particular side is at a disadvantage. Maybe if airports are opening or closing, we could have a message in chat giving us a 5 minute warning that the airfield is going to open or close. Maybe there is some other way to give a bonus to the weaker side, rather than a punishment for the stronger side (you can't log in, you can't use airfield X are punishments).

 

So your alternative is to "reward" people for flying against impossible odds rather than addressing the impossible odds? Tell me, how much good is an XP boost to me if I lose all my planes or die on every sortie because there are 6 enemies waiting for me as soon as I get the wheels up, or sooner? When the numbers get stupidly lopsided it drives people away from the event. It has done for me and others for the last few go arounds on TAW. Is limiting player sides or spawn points the best solution to the problem? No, the players of either side being reasonable and balancing the teams themselves, or at least coming close, would be the best solution. Unfortunately, there seems to be no will among the majority of players to do this for a wide range of reasons. If the players won't fix the problem then someone else has to, so you get what is in place now; a sub-optimal solution to a preeminently fixable problem.

 

I'd love to participate in TAW again, but when I look at the numbers on any given iteration and see things like 57 to 20 I just can't be bothered and I am not alone in that sentiment.

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I'm starting to wonder if there's more of a correlation with the website tactical map and when players will flood the server than with time zones.  I've watched instances on the map when a side will lose an advantage and be thrown into a defensive and then that side's players will 'scramble' to pack the server with a numerical advantage.  I've been around for 2 1/2 TAWS.  The first one I played the last 3 maps and saw this happen. The second, I didn't play but, I did watch the map and saw instances of this.  Right now (the 3rd), I can see it happening right now.  Axis was almost to the Allied southern depot.  They got stalled, repelled, and are now on the defensive in the south.  Lo and behold!  The server is now full with Axis having 50+ players on.   The teams weren't greatly imbalanced all morning until this turn of fortune on the map.

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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2 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

I'm starting to wonder if there's more of a correlation with the website tactical map and when players will flood the server than with time zones.  I've watched instances on the map when a side will lose an advantage and be thrown into a defensive and then that side's players will 'scramble' to pack the server with a numerical advantage.  I've been around for 2 1/2 TAWS.  The first one I played the last 3 maps and saw this happen. The second, I didn't play but, I did watch the map and saw instances of this.  Right now (the 3rd), I can see it happening right now.  Axis was almost to the Allied southern depot.  They got stalled, repelled, and are now on the defensive in the south.  Lo and behold!  The server is now full with Axis having 50+ players on.   The teams weren't greatly imbalanced all morning until this turn of fortune on the map.

I think its more of a fact of the Squads Timezones. During the middle of the day to about 3 to 4 CST US Time the axis are packed with JG4 and other Blue Euro Pilots, by the time the german Prime time is over the NA Pilots get home and its usually in favor of the VVS post german Prime time. 

 

As my first TAWS that Im starting from the start, it doesnt take a ounce of a cell to look at the TAWS Teamspeak and correlate what Nation the players are from (IE When you click a users name and it shows their countru of origin.) Its mostly during the EU Prime time its a major sided Axis unless they arent flying out thay day.

Edited by MentalishMan

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I wish there were more NA pilots over there in our timezone... Hopefully BoBP will change it.

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Why is it that after 3 combat missions I get a il2 instead of the p40? These 3 combat missions were done in an i16... Unreal.

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8 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Why is it that after 3 combat missions I get a il2 instead of the p40? These 3 combat missions were done in an i16... Unreal.

you need to select fighters as your primary resupply. 

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13 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Why is it that after 3 combat missions I get a il2 instead of the p40? These 3 combat missions were done in an i16... Unreal.

You probably didn't select what you wanted for your Primary Plane type Resupply. 

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So, as I suggested before, can we have the registration for next TAW be split into timezones? There seems to be an imbalance in both directions, which varies by time zone.

 

Example:

 

PST NA Evening

Axis: 50 Allies: 32

EST NA Evening

Axis: 40 Allies: 53

EU Evening

Axis: 30 Allies: 23

 

Up to you which time zones to include, but I think this might at least help somewhat. Unless we get some sort of (unrealistic) auto engine management for VVS planes, I think there will always be those who are too scared/lazy to even try them. Then, there are those who refuse. For everyone else who actually want to balance the campaign, this will be more accurate than just overall numbers.

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1 hour ago, ACG_Nightrise said:

you need to select fighters as your primary resupply. 

I had them all selected, didn't know it'd just give you any plane, figured flying fighters would resupply fighters.

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14 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

I had them all selected, didn't know it'd just give you any plane, figured flying fighters would resupply fighters.


If you have all of them selected then it's random.

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23 hours ago, Tincannavy said:

PLEASE give Russian pilots at least the P40 right from the start during the early war maps NO ONE wants to fly I-16 especially when the Germans have the Bf109 E It's not even close to fair or more importantly fun!

The I-16 is a pretty fun aircraft to fly out, I was pretty skeptical about it and not much of a Fighter Pilot. 

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 I see your point - you just want to fly irregardless of the odds on either side. The fact is there is no fun when maps flips less than the two week time limit (...too fast) because the overbalanced side is doing twice as much damage to the ground targets. Since TAW is more weighted to the ground war, this will surely be the case if the issue isn't solved. Nor is it fun to sit around and wait 3 months for TAW admin to restart the campaign. How bout the guys that use the inbalance to rack up skills - that part I don't care about.

 

I care about the 1st reason - more fun for all if the campaign lasts longer.

 

Like Riksen and others before me have mentioned - no much fun getting bounced 5 mins after takeoff.

 

 

12 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I really dislike the idea of limiting logins to the server when there is an imbalance. It's already painful if the server is full: sometimes I cannot play with my friends even if we are the underdogs. I can imagine the side with more players also being frustrated by a hard cap on logging in. If there were ever a cap I think maybe 42 or 50 would be a good number. Imagine if there were 20:5 players online and you couldn't log in to make it 21:5, very frustrating.

 

The airfield lockout mechanic is also painful. I was flying last night in a large group, trying to claw back some ground for VVS. We had half our people spawned at a frontal airfield, when suddenly the airfield shut down. Anyone who had not already spawned needed to use a different airfield. This was a big problem: the escorts, flying short-range I-16s, were now not able to cover the bombers from the rear airfield!

 

I don't expect the mechanics to be changed in the middle of this TAW, so I guess we'll learn to live with it, but psychology suggests that "incentives" are better than "punishment." Maybe we need XP bonuses for pilots flying against larger odds (would this change people's behavior?). Maybe instead of closing front-line airfields we should open a beneficial airfield when a particular side is at a disadvantage. Maybe if airports are opening or closing, we could have a message in chat giving us a 5 minute warning that the airfield is going to open or close. Maybe there is some other way to give a bonus to the weaker side, rather than a punishment for the stronger side (you can't log in, you can't use airfield X are punishments).

 

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Hey I was just trying to make suggestions, if people want to shit on me that's fine.

 

I will say that the mechanic that currently *silently* opens and closes front-line airfields could use some improvement. Even with a team of just 4 pilots this evening I was sitting and looking at the map wondering if I was going to be able to spawn with my buddies. I even had a situation where I selected an aircraft but in the time it took me to pick weapons loadout the airfield had closed. Sure, I'm therefore on the side with more players and at an advantage, but it's not a very fun mechanic to deal with. Having the rug swept from under you is pretty annoying. Maybe we should all fly from rear airfields and waste fuel and our time if we're on the side with more players -- that would be probably okay, but at least give us some warning that the airfields are opening and closing.

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30 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

Hey I was just trying to make suggestions, if people want to shit on me that's fine.

 

I will say that the mechanic that currently *silently* opens and closes front-line airfields could use some improvement. Even with a team of just 4 pilots this evening I was sitting and looking at the map wondering if I was going to be able to spawn with my buddies. I even had a situation where I selected an aircraft but in the time it took me to pick weapons loadout the airfield had closed. Sure, I'm therefore on the side with more players and at an advantage, but it's not a very fun mechanic to deal with. Having the rug swept from under you is pretty annoying. Maybe we should all fly from rear airfields and waste fuel and our time if we're on the side with more players -- that would be probably okay, but at least give us some warning that the airfields are opening and closing.


Agree 100%. With tweaking I think the system would be very good. 

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I think that the devs did a great job with the current system. It controls the flow very well. As for the time zone it will always be a problem no matter what. If you try to balance numerically the teams it will lead only to disappointment and many squads will not to fly any more. We have seen this in ADW.

 

As for statistics. Currently

Top 50 squads - 29 blues/21 reds

That converts to 278 to 206 pilots.

 

From them

Top five fighter pilots 2blue 3 reds

Top five bomber pilots 2 reds 3 blues

Top five tank busters pilots 3 blues 2 reds

 

Top five fighter squads 2 red 3 blues

Top five bomber squads 2red 3 blues

Top five tank busters squads 4 red 1 blue

 

I think is quite as balanced as it can be. Now if someone feels that it has to be 50 / 50, well my opinion is that it will never be. This will turn either to blue or the red side, as it was for the first 10 campaigns, but hey then nobody complained so much. Now from nowhere everybody complains. I use to fly when it where 10 blues with 30 reds. So what?!?!?! I took my Ju, did my job everything ok. Then this it was a problem, the load out, the gunnery att depot, so it changed, ok. Acceptable! Again the same hordes of reds.

But now for the sake of balance new discussion, nothing creative to say and the statistics are showing no other but that everything works relative ok. But noooooooo. Attacking fellow pilots with insulting under the table meaning on the capability to fly etc is ok.  

Look at the map how it turned. Time zone unfortunately it will be a problem always. Please fly, just fly. There are people that really enjoy flying. Unfortunately it cannot be perfect and the devs they are doing A GREAT JOB to balance situation without restrictions to free will and I believe they will push it a lot more.

Edited by 335th_GRDaedalos
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Enjoying this campaign so far!

 

Could anyone enlighten me on some of the mechanics I dont quite understand yet?

 

Supplies - On the ingame mission briefing, is 0% full or empty for a airfield's supplies? I only ask as most of the rear ones had 10-15% supplies while some of the damaged front line ones had ~80%.  Does this mean they have 80% of supplies left, or they have used 80% of supplies? 

 

Paratroopers - Not seeing any paratrooper Pe2 variants on VVS?

 

Objective hit points - Things like train cars I am finding VERY tough to hurt with cannons, has the HP on small vehicles/statics been doubled?

 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

 

Paratroopers - Not seeing any paratrooper Pe2 variants on VVS?

 

Objective hit points - Things like train cars I am finding VERY tough to hurt with cannons, has the HP on small vehicles/statics been doubled?

 

Cheers!

 

I don't know if Pe-2s were ever capable of dropping paratroopers, there's already 3 crew and the bomb bay is not that large.  Keep in mind that Pe-2 is about the same size as a BF-110.

I think at most it could para-drop supplies.  Currently, we don't have any planes capable of dropping troops for VVS.  

 

I think that a lot of ground attack objects got buffed this time around.  I've done a handful of bombing runs on defense lines and scored direct hits on bunkers/dugouts with 250kg bombs and barely damaged them.  Keep in mind that with the new damage model update, damaging vehicles to the point they are incapacitated beyond repair is more likely that full-on obliteration.   Take the wheel off the axle of a truck or hit the engine block and it's just as good as dead.  

 

TAW does give consideration to the pilot for simply 'doing damage' when calculating combat missions this time around. 

 

I don't think the ground commanders will get mad if you got no ground kills, but are positive you unloaded on the targets as duty required.  :salute: 

 

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