Tactical Air War

[Cpt_Siddy]

18 hours ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Also if F-4 gets removed then MiG becomes fastest and best fighter.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[StG77_Kondor]

4 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

There are 3 defs so I quess the one remaining did the job?

I don't think Kathon has ever released the actual math behind this, but for the last several campaigns it's been if a tank column is healthy (above 50%) it will capture an objective if there is only 1 def position left. 

 

But don't worry Norz. Blue will soon run out of tanks :).

[Norz]

The issue was that no one attacked the red tanks. The weather was really bad and there were only few AXIS players... We decided to make some supply missions instead of killing this last defence...

 

 

[Slawinski]

Blue doesn't need tanks to capture objectives)) My salute to our brave paratroopers and Ju-52 pilots!

 

[Inkophile]

4 hours ago, Norz said:

The issue was that no one attacked the red tanks. The weather was really bad and there were only few AXIS players... We decided to make some supply missions instead of killing this last defence...

 

 

 

Were the tanks attacked in the mission before that one? The tank column existed in mission #201 as well. If it was seriously weakened it might not have got enough new tanks to be strong enough to take the airfield.

[Guest deleted@103832]

7 minutes ago, Inkompetent said:

Were the tanks attacked in the mission before that one? The tank column existed in mission #201 as well. If it was seriously weakened it might not have got enough new tanks to be strong enough to take the airfield.

I hit both BLUE tank columns on Map #201 and they were already severely mauled when I got there. Didn't see Map #202, but the remaining tank numbers of either column would have been in the low single digits. I went to bed expecting that neither column would survive to the next map.

[AKA_Relent]

It’s been mentioned before, but IMO having only one side with the ability to not only capture, but if not successful at capturing, to further damage an enemy airfield (that is >= 50% damaged) without the use of tanks or being exposed to that airfield’s AA/AAA defenses is a major advantage to that one side.

 

I’ve suggested it before, but it would be a more balanced approach if the other side had tha ability to do something similar, such as land a transport bomber (on a road, frozen lake, flat field, etc.) near a (>= 50%) damaged enemy airfield, to “supply partisans” and have the same impact as paratroopers (I.e. further damage the airfield or capture it).

 

This current map (#4) has seen at least three airfields captured by paratroopers, so it certainly has had a significant impact on the potential outcome.

 

Cudo’s and thanks to LG and the admin team for continuing to provide this campaign server, this in no way takes away from the effort you have put forth, just posting an opinion and suggestion :).

 

Edited - changed the A/F damage comments from 60 to 50%, before paratroopers can be used (was going by memory, and obviously I miss-remembered  )

Edited October 4, 2018 by AKA_Relent

[7.GShAP/Silas]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:31 PM, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

Also if F-4 gets removed then MiG becomes fastest and best fighter.

 

 

[JG7_X-Man]

Hey Admin - Mission Planner Link from Website is KAPUT! Google Chrome is giving security errors too  - please have a look. Thanks

[La_Pastafrola]

hey i have a problem, the server is kicking me out every time i drop a bomb or have some kind of interaction with a player wtf

i flew 30 min the area i wanted to bomb and then the server kicked my out seconds after the bomb exploded

[ACG_Invictus]

*breaks out bag of popcorn and takes a seat*

[LeLv76_Erkki]

7 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

 

It is. Why dont you test yourself? MiG-3 is about 10 km/h faster than F-2 that is using its 30 min combat power even at the deck. On 3 min power they're about equal. Who cares about 1 minute wep. MiG will snipe you anyway if you have to fly straight. With continuous power they are equally fast. Above 6000 m F-2's supercharger gives up and MiG is the better the higher the altitude is. Which one turns better depends on who you ask.

 

Of course the difference is nowhere near as large as between MiG and F-4

[Cpt_Siddy]

38 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

It is. Why dont you test yourself? MiG-3 is about 10 km/h faster than F-2 that is using its 30 min combat power even at the deck. On 3 min power they're about equal. Who cares about 1 minute wep. MiG will snipe you anyway if you have to fly straight. With continuous power they are equally fast. Above 6000 m F-2's supercharger gives up and MiG is the better the higher the altitude is. Which one turns better depends on who you ask.

 

Of course the difference is nowhere near as large as between MiG and F-4

 

 

And Mig has worse climb, worse wing loading, worse dive speed, worse never never exceed speed, locks up totally in speeds above 580 IAS.

 

You need to be above 6km for it mig to shine, and F-2 just gets to 6km faster. If anything, MiG vs F-2 is the most interesting pairing we had, and even then the general odds are in F-2's favor.

Now it was totally on sided in map#2 because F-4 just shits on everything VVS has up until Yak-1b.

[Norz]

1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

It is. Why dont you test yourself? MiG-3 is about 10 km/h faster than F-2 that is using its 30 min combat power even at the deck.

 

Mig3 is really good. But you are wrong about +10 km/h at 0m and about F2 at 6000m.

Did you test a WINTER or Sommer map? 

 

109f2 Stalingrad Winter, 85% throttle 452 km/h

Mig3 Stalingrad Winter, 100%/100%/100% about 452 km/h (radiators are open 60/30)

 

Maybe we will see Mig3 not only in the first 4 maps. Will be great. They are perfect to patrol AF area.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Norz

[HR_Tumu]

some questions. Please

I think i don´t understand mechanics of capture base.

 

Level damage - >= 51% no?

Drop zone : top secret ... what radius???  i think  is far from base, how many kms ? i never see a flak 88 shooting to ju 52 , sometimes bases are captured whit no red alert.

If paratroopers dont conquer .... paratroopers damage base?

 

Thx.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

46 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

Mig3 is really good. But you are wrong about +10 km/h at 0m and about F2 at 6000m.

Did you test a WINTER or Sommer map? 

 

109f2 Stalingrad Winter, 85% throttle 452 km/h

Mig3 Stalingrad Winter, 100%/100%/100% about 452 km/h (radiators are open 60/30)

 

Maybe we will see Mig3 not only in the first 4 maps. Will be great. They are perfect to patrol AF area.

 

 

 

You need to go the other way with MiG-3 radiators now, oil more closed than water. Oil rads in MiG are large flaps so oil radiator position effects speed a lot more than they do in most other planes. As much or almost as much as water rad. 460 km/h IAS at 5000 m(more if you want to overheat), F-2 achieves the same. They're very equal in 5000-6000 m range.

 

Can blues have Pe-2 for bomber? No? Theres more to plane balance than fighters, but you hang onto them.

[Guest deleted@103832]

Putting this out now and there will be another mostly A20B video at the end of the campaign.

 

Contents:

Moonlight Bikinis, Explosions, Dead Tanks,, A few stellar Luftwaffe players, Lots of Dumbasses, Profanity, New Agent Orange Game Graphics.

 

 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

4 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Can blues have Pe-2 for bomber? No? Theres more to plane balance than fighters, but you hang onto them.

 

 

The Ju-88 is a very good bomber, the Soviet team has to wait very long for the A-20.  There is also the FW-190 and the BF-110, both good bomb delivery platforms.

[Norz]

10 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Oil rads in MiG are large flaps so oil radiator position effects speed a lot more than they do in most other planes.

 

60/30 means 60 water/30 oil

Edited October 4, 2018 by Norz

[LeLv76_Erkki]

2 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

60/30 means 60 water/30 oil

 

You can close oil rad even more in level flight.

 

Re bombers: the key word is survivability. Level bombers are what they are and 110 and especially Ju 87 are very, very vulnerable and fragile to both flak and interceptors. One doesnt even need to worry about the gunners.

[Cpt_Siddy]

4 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

You can close oil rad even more in level flight.

 

Re bombers: the key word is survivability. Level bombers are what they are and 110 and especially Ju 87 are very, very vulnerable and fragile to both flak and interceptors. One doesnt even need to worry about the gunners.

 

 

Closing oil rads more increases drag, there is neutral drag position in all radiators (without inlet control), and 0 is not it.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[LeLv76_Erkki]

Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Closing oil rads more increases drag, there is neutral drag position in all radiators, and 0 is not it. 

 

I did write zero? No, theres not a non-zero lowest drag position in all radiators. I've tested them.

[Cpt_Siddy]

1 minute ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

I did write zero? No, theres not a non-zero lowest drag position in all radiators. I've tested them.

 

Then the game do not model the physics correctly. Manuals in many WW2 era planes have least drag settings for radiators. 

 

Closed position for oil rad in mig-3 is to prevent over cooling. Having it open enough to have optimal airflow without increasing needless vortex generation is the least drag position, and it is usually in position where the flaps are parallel with the fuselage (somewhere around 30%)

[FTC_DerSheriff]

4 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

I did write zero? No, theres not a non-zero lowest drag position in all radiators. I've tested them.

tell that to the P-39

[LeLv76_Erkki]

You two above,

 

Correct wording would have been: there are lowest drag zero positions.

[Cpt_Siddy]

 

Closed rads create drag in ram type radiators by generating vortexes. 

 

Optimal open ram radiators are designed to have net neutral drag. (i don't remember if p-51 had net positive thrust radiator)

 

Full open ram rads are designed to have low pressure zone behind the outlet to increase the airflow trough the rad. (needles to say, this creates allot of drag)

 

This is 101 design physics for any radiators that are designed to be operated from incoming airflow  as a ram type radiators without any active (fans, bleed air, etc...) components. 

 

Also, correct term for 'radiator' in this contexts is convection heat exchanger 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[=LG/F=Kathon]

16 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

I don't think Kathon has ever released the actual math behind this, but for the last several campaigns it's been if a tank column is healthy (above 50%) it will capture an objective if there is only 1 def position left. 

 

But don't worry Norz. Blue will soon run out of tanks :).

It's not so simple. First of all remember that not number of left position matters but total strength of all defense positions e.g. one full defense position equals tree defenses destroyed in 66%, two full defenses are better than three destroyed in 50%.  Also different objects in defense (tanks, AT, bunkers, armored truck, BM13) give different strength to it.

 

The second thing is that capturing the city by tanks is non-deterministic function which means that two identical situation (the same number of attacking tanks and strength of the def) may end with different result: captured or not. 

 

There is a "simulation" of the battle between attacking tanks and defense after each mission. Every tank shoots at the defense (and vice versa) and may hit it with some probability. The battle ends when either def is destroyed or no tanks left. So the more tanks and more defense is damaged then bigger probability to capture the city. 

 

 

1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

some questions. Please

I think i don´t understand mechanics of capture base.

 

Level damage - >= 51% no?

Drop zone : top secret ... what radius???  i think  is far from base, how many kms ? i never see a flak 88 shooting to ju 52 , sometimes bases are captured whit no red alert.

If paratroopers dont conquer .... paratroopers damage base?

 

Thx.

You mean capture base by paratroopers?

 

Drop zone is available if airfield's damage > 50%.

Located about 10km from the airfield (not over forest, rivers, lakes etc). 

Probability of capturing = airfield damage level.

Radius 2km (diameter 4km) 

If they don't capture then they damage airfield.

[FTC_Riksen]

"I love the LW. I'll only fly LW as I want to be like the Aces back then and will not accept VVS planes being better mine! Ever. That is why I love the LW!" ... comes map 7-8 ... "Screw this, VVS has the 5FN ... I'm going to back to WoL!" lololololololol

[Cpt_Siddy]

22 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

"I love the LW. I'll only fly LW as I want to be like the Aces back then and will not accept VVS planes being better mine! Ever. That is why I love the LW!" ... comes map 7-8 ... "Screw this, VVS has the 5FN ... I'm going to back to WoL!" lololololololol

 

Contexts plz 

[Tonester]

Well this penis showing game is interesting...personally I fly as a target drone(well that’s what my stats say) and I challenge any of you to be as good at it as me!...sometimes I even kill myself! Beat that ?

[HR_Tumu]

Thx for explanation about paratroopers. 

 

My opinion is as allways , is too unfair play same game if each team no have  same chances.

 

Im no say nothing about planetset, on general terms, both sides have fighters to fight, bombers for bomb ans both teams have to win battles and drop succesful bombs, depends of map, one team have better weapons and have more easy for complete task.

 

The point is allways the same, the other team ( maybe need more effort ) but can reach the same objective. both teams have same " tactical" oportunities.

 

Hability  of axis for capture bases is a huge advantage,  no doubt... reds are losing many bases , not only because axis are capturing it . Until allies no have same oportunities, are loosing all the bases they will capture in same conditions that oponent.

 

Like all aspects of TAW.  Is a design campaign decision. I repeat, for me, unffair.

 

And after understand better the conditions.... i thnk , axis, not only have the " bonus option " , this "bonus option" is too easy.

 

I have some suggestions:    ( for example )

 

-Bases need be damaged superior to 50 , minimun 80.

-This poor soldiers cant walk ten kilometers whit a 25 lts of fuel and 50 kg of ammo on the bag , radius have to be reduced. Will be nice if defences on base can shot transport planes... maybe this, can force to agressor team do real damage on defences of base they want capture

- If paratroopers fail, continue damaging base ?? ok , what are the loses then for capturing team?? nothing?.

  Maybe resources of superparatroopers can be limited for map... If agressor fail to capture, they cant do any damage . Have to suffer some relevant negative consecuencies.

-No show drop zone is ok.

 

thx

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by 666GIAP_Tumu

[Cpt_Siddy]

15 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

 

- If paratroopers fail, continue damaging base ?? ok , what are the loses then for capturing team?? nothing?.

  Maybe resources of superparatroopers can be limited for map... If agressor fail to capture, they cant do any damage . Have to suffer some relevant negative consecuencies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a good point.

 

Trained paratroopers don't grow on the trees, and getting them gulag'gged must surely diminish the offensive strength of the Wehrmacht.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

54 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

"I love the LW. I'll only fly LW as I want to be like the Aces back then and will not accept VVS planes being better mine! Ever. That is why I love the LW!" ... comes map 7-8 ... "Screw this, VVS has the 5FN ... I'm going to back to WoL!" lololololololol

 

What is actually really funny is that when I flew reds(because there were vastly more blues over ten years ago already) there were some people who didnt talk to me because I was a "commie" and every successfull red pilot was a cheater. And blues were stat padders. Just like now. This thread is just like the old Ubizoo. Good to see people with passion but come on.

[STG77Jeeves]

A)  Really impressed that destruction of the radio tower on a field kills the radio direction finder for everyone.  Thoughtful, detailed modeling.

B)  Really sorry that I nailed the Erzovka radio tower on takeoff last night and killed the radio direction finder for everyone!  Thoughtless, dumba$$ flying...

 

[Cpt_Siddy]

1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

What is actually really funny is that when I flew reds(because there were vastly more blues over ten years ago already) there were some people who didnt talk to me because I was a "commie" and every successfull red pilot was a cheater. And blues were stat padders. Just like now. This thread is just like the old Ubizoo. Good to see people with passion but come on.

 

I want to fly a campaign on TAW for blue once in a while but the blue stack just don't let me. 

When there is more reds on the server, the numbers are usually relatively low, so while in relative terms the stack might be 1:5, the absolute terms there is only 12 reds vs 4 blues. 

And with the targets are how they are, 4 fighters can do a number even on 12 reds. 

 

When the peak timezone strike, the numbers in relative terms might be 1:2, but in absolute terms, blues fly 20 to 30 more pilots in the air. That is allot of damage potential in one map cycle. 

 

And i find it easy to fly under manned against low absolute numbers of reds with a fighters that can reliably run away and dictate engagement, when you are flying reds with manpower disadvantage, you have snowballs chance in hell to run away. (unless you are in peshka, i have noticed that this TAW cycle, many axis players have pathological fear of this thing)

[LeLv76_Erkki]

Numbers have been very even now. So have been the plane and pilot losses, and flight hours for most flying top 50 squads. This despite the supposed masochism of flying red. Ju 52 paradrops have maybe won one map. Something like dropping/transporting partisans behind the lines(but close to airfields) to hit airfields or supply could be interesting.

 

Maybe reds are better pilots right. ;)

[Cpt_Siddy]

1 minute ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

 

Maybe reds are better pilots right.

 

 

Red randoms are more willing to pilot ground attackers and bombers, i think. 

 

When you are flying solo as a red, Pe-2 is your best bet to have a good time. When you are solo as axis, 109 is your safest bet to have good times. 

After all, we all fly to have a good time...

 

But i might be wrong... 

[Garven]

52 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Pe-2 is your best bet to have a good time. 

I'm sick of flying that plane, wished the A-20 was coming next map just for something different.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

The La-5 is a lot of fun as well if you want an alternative.  I've been enjoying it.

 

EDIT:  The tankless army has acquired more tanks.  How did that happen?

Edited October 4, 2018 by 7.GShAP/Silas

[FTC_DerSheriff]

34 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

The La-5 is a lot of fun as well if you want an alternative.  I've been enjoying it.

 

EDIT:  The tankless army has acquired more tanks.  How did that happen?

A warehouse spawned. The russians got one as well a mission later.

I just want to mention again that I dont like that mechanic. Imho those warehouse should at least stay on the map for 3 missions to have at least the chance to plan anything and to include muliple timezones.