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Advance And Secure (Planes And Tanks)


super-truite
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ST_Bump

Game freeze's up when pressing join server tab🙃

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super-truite

Weird, there are some people on the server right now :(

 

@ickylevel is helping me making new maps, now. So you will see several new maps soon! Some are under testing on the server.

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Fritz_Faber

Great, tried Engelskirchen for some minutes, cool. It is late, more tomorrow 👍🏻.

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Fritz_Faber

Hmm, server broken, 

can‘t spawn mission Yuzhnaya...

Homepage down?

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1./JG42flesch

today 5x kicked from serveron Kerch Mission. 3x in Tank after3-10min. 2x in Plane after 1min and 3min.

 

Edited by 1./JG42flesch
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super-truite

the dedicated server is down, will try to fix it this week-end. Currently the mission runs on my gaming computer, meaning better CPU but worst network.

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Fritz_Faber

Kicked all the time from your server, unfortunately.

But some other players were playing.

Tried other servers, they are working properly, seems to be a problem with AAS.

Above you explained the possible reason, so I will wait for the fixed dedicated server.

 

Have a nice weekend, don't work too hard 😉

 

IMG_6750.JPG

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super-truite

Everything should be back to normal. The dedicated server has stopped acting up. What I do not like is that I do not know why it stops working and go back to normal after a while ...

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SCG_Neun

I enjoyed this server a lot last night.  Great job super-truite on setting this up.  I would say this is pushing the extreme end of the resource the game is able to handle, so you are squeezing everything out of it you can.  The AI is very aggressive and there's a lot of action.  You've done the best anyone can do with ground combat considering what you have to work with.  Thanks for putting this together for us.

Edited by SCG_Neun
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Fritz_Faber

We had a lot of fun today, up to 28 players at the same time, bloody duells to get one special flag 😉.

So much efforts and ressources wasted for such a small village, called Engelskirchen.

Engel ... Angel ... hmmm.

Very intensive and exhausting to keep aware and concentrated over six hours during two missions.

Thank‘s for creating such great stuff!

👍 👍👍

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super-truite
Posted (edited)

I have a video of our 18st century pistol duel :biggrin:. But I did not see you shoot ? Is it a visual bug or  did you have a problem with the pistol ?

Edit: The duel 

 

Edited by super-truite
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Fritz_Faber

Hey super-truite ist was my fault, missunderstood you. Sorry. I never used or tried a pistol as a tankman, so I didn‘t know how to handle it.

Thought you were meaning duel by the main gun.

🙈

However, I will get used to the pistol today and we will repeat our gentleman duel 😉.

Do we have another pistol besides the signal pistol?

 

 2 hours later:

Got it, nice P08 Parabellum, Left cltr+4 .... 💪

Edited by Fritz_Faber
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Fritz_Faber

Yesterday evening we had one of the most intensive tankbattle, I ever was part of.

Yuzhnaya 20:52.

 

69 players, some took part as tanker and pilots, some as tankers only, some as pilots.

Duration of mission 2:47 hours (167 minutes).

Peak of players at one time 28.

40 tankmen.

40 pilots.

 

Destroyed targets 349.

Human tankmen destroyed 288 targets, most of them tanks!

Human pilots destroyed 33 planes and 28 ground targets.

Not counted AI tanks and planes.

 

Every minute 1,7 tanks were destroyed, all 35 seconds one tank got lost in such a small battlefield!
 

Would be interesting how long a tankman was surviving, how many minutes in average?

I was killed 8 times in 167 minutes, my life expectancy was 20 minutes.
What was the life expectancy of a tankman in WWII in reality?

I guess, much longer.

 

May be, IL2 developer (TC) have to think about the damage model, are the tanks to weak?

Or should we have more training 😉 ... ?!!

 

However, what a nice experience, to have (be) part of such an battle atmosphere.

IL2 makes a great job.

Thx to super-truite 🙏🏻.

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super-truite
Posted (edited)

I think it is not a matter of damage model (there are some little tweaks  needed maybe, but since I am not a harcore tank specialist I am not sure).
I think the main driver of the permanent massacre is the mission design. My goal is to have a server with a lot of action with some slower mission like Kersch sometimes (because of @LUZITANO :biggrin:) where progression will need a bit more planning when players will get use to it. The distance between flags, infinite respawn and the choice of location lead to a lot of encounters. I do not want something more hardcore because it would lead to less replayability, especially for new comers (it is frustrating to drive 5km and then get killed randomly without knowing what happens). The behavior is clearly different than IRL combat behaviour because of the infinite respawn and, me the first, we sometime rush to the flag to try to win and with no intels about enemy presence. Only Heavy tanks survive a little bit more because in general they take less risk because of the limited number of those. IRL I guess the flanks would be full of infantry, Pak guns, mines, AT traps etc. And you would not have all those t34 crawling in the woods :biggrin:.
On maps where there is little cover like Prelestnoye, It is easy to survive if you have aerial supremacy and coordination between tanks and planes. You can have a snapshot of the positions of all the enemy tanks thanks to planes and you can then  attack from the right side and know when to push for the flag without it being a Kamikaze mission. 

PS: AI was deactivated just after mission start (1 min after or so) so those kills are mainly Player vs Players indeed 

Edited by super-truite
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ickylevel
2 hours ago, Fritz_Faber said:

Yesterday evening we had one of the most intensive tankbattle, I ever was part of.

Yuzhnaya 20:52.

 

69 players, some took part as tanker and pilots, some as tankers only, some as pilots.

Duration of mission 2:47 hours (167 minutes).

Peak of players at one time 28.

40 tankmen.

40 pilots.

 

Destroyed targets 349.

Human tankmen destroyed 288 targets, most of them tanks!

Human pilots destroyed 33 planes and 28 ground targets.

Not counted AI tanks and planes.

 

Every minute 1,7 tanks were destroyed, all 35 seconds one tank got lost in such a small battlefield!
 

Would be interesting how long a tankman was surviving, how many minutes in average?

I was killed 8 times in 167 minutes, my life expectancy was 20 minutes.
What was the life expectancy of a tankman in WWII in reality?

I guess, much longer.

 

May be, IL2 developer (TC) have to think about the damage model, are the tanks to weak?

Or should we have more training 😉 ... ?!!

 

However, what a nice experience, to have (be) part of such an battle atmosphere.

IL2 makes a great job.

Thx to super-truite 🙏🏻.

 

My belief is that APHE deals too much damage to the crew in this game. It wouldn't change the statistics though.

Edited by ickylevel
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Fritz_Faber
3 hours ago, super-truite said:

I think it is not a matter of damage model (there are some little tweaks  needed maybe, but since I am not a harcore tank specialist I am not sure).
I think the main driver of the permanent massacre is the mission design. My goal is to have a server with a lot of action with some slower mission like Kersch sometimes (because of @LUZITANO :biggrin:) where progression will need a bit more planning when players will get use to it. The distance between flags, infinite respawn and the choice of location lead to a lot of encounters. I do not want something more hardcore because it would lead to less replayability, especially for new comers (it is frustrating to drive 5km and then get killed randomly without knowing what happens). The behavior is clearly different than IRL combat behaviour because of the infinite respawn and, me the first, we sometime rush to the flag to try to win and with no intels about enemy presence. Only Heavy tanks survive a little bit more because in general they take less risk because of the limited number of those. IRL I guess the flanks would be full of infantry, Pak guns, mines, AT traps etc. And you would not have all those t34 crawling in the woods :biggrin:.
On maps where there is little cover like Prelestnoye, It is easy to survive if you have aerial supremacy and coordination between tanks and planes. You can have a snapshot of the positions of all the enemy tanks thanks to planes and you can then  attack from the right side and know when to push for the flag without it being a Kamikaze mission. 

PS: AI was deactivated just after mission start (1 min after or so) so those kills are mainly Player vs Players indeed 

 

 

Yes I agree, the virtual tankbattles in simulation will never be comparable to them in real live. The limitation of mission design makes the difference.

Here we don't have the complexity of combined actions, like infantry, artillery support, aerial reconnaissance, tactical planning, huge battlefields with long approach ways to reach them ... and so on.

In reality the tanks wouldn't never rush to the 'flag' - all together like 22 kids of both teams in football running behind the ball to make the goal (nobody will be the goalkeeper) - without knowing what happens with frontline, without care about the defending of own flag behind, with T34 all around sitting behind trees in forest ambushes.

So we have more a fun focused battle scenario, more or less 'guerrilla tactics', a density of action around one hotspot.

And instead of marching with your lame tanks over days to the frontline, refueling, repairing, you can spawn directly in the theatre all 20 minutes 😉

 

So it is clear, that your average lifetime will be very short.

 

You told us that your idea is creating a server like 'Wings of Liberty' for tanks, so all is fine.

I guess this missions are good and as we can see, they getting more and more visitors.

I don't have any ideas to make it better.

 

If we have sometimes a big tanker community - I hope so - then maybe it will give another server like TAW for tanks, a bit more hardcore.

I'm always spending a lot of time at TAW campaigns and my personal target is to keep alive as long as possible.

Usually l'm loosing about three or four lifes in one campaign over several weeks.

That means fighting with tactic, not blind as kamikaze.

But TAW is another story, not comparable.

My interests are to simulate a soldier life as real as possible, to get a bit the feeling of how it was.

So I'm not so interested in dying 8 times an evening 😉

 

Nevertheless I enjoy AAS a lot 👍

 

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super-truite

I might also organize more realistic/historical PvP scenario when the community will be bigger, but not sure I am needed in this niche because there is already some events organized. You need to have homogenous groups that speak the same language for that and it requires a bit of organization and practice otherwise it can get really frustrating (people flooding coms and not used to transmit clearly information, people dying quickly and who cannot respawn or need a long time to go back to the front etc.). It is often the type of stuff you do in parallel of more easy to play servers like AAS. I guess I might have a sufficient French tank group soon to fight in such events. One day we will maybe be enough to defy @SCG_Neun and his gang :biggrin:
Coop is also nice for such historical scenario but I find it really time consuming to do something interesting (AI take a lot of resources so you need to create a lot of caching logic to make it work. A bit too much work for punctual events)

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Hi! I would like to say this server is great, I've got some real fun experience on it, but something must be done against camping the spawn points.

I don't understand someone who think thats any close to be fun, destroying the hole idea to have an server to fight each other, instead they want to hit people even before they get active.

Other night our group was trying to teache the game to 3 of our guys and they got hit even before they can understand what is going on, that is not only annoying but in the current rate I'm seeing it happened in this server, it may put some people away from the server, when it gets fame as a camping yard.

 

An idea to solve this problem is to set up an invulnerable deadly arty to defend the spawn point at least one of the spawn base.

 

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ickylevel
3 minutes ago, GusGT said:

Hi! I would like to say this server is great, I've got some real fun experience on it, but something must be done against camping the spawn points.

I don't understand someone who think thats any close to be fun, destroying the hole idea to have an server to fight each other, instead they want to hit people even before they get active.

Other night our group was trying to teache the game to 3 of our guys and they got hit even before they can understand what is going on, that is not only annoying but in the current rate I'm seeing it happened in this server, it may put some people away from the server, when it gets fame as a camping yard.

 

An idea to solve this problem is to set up an invulnerable deadly arty to defend the spawn point at least one of the spawn base.

 

 

Yes I will add some cover for the german spawns on that map. But unfortunately for now spawn camping is part of the meta game...

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super-truite
Posted (edited)

Hi @GusGT, thx and welcome!  Camping one spawn is part of the game if the goal is to take the flag. That is why there is another spawn. It is too easy on some maps though and I see people that are doing it without pushing for the flag so something needs to be done about it. I guess we will protect a bit more the spawn flanks. But not as easy as it might seem because when there are a lot of players, they spawn in line and it takes quite a lot of room, so the area must be at the same time large enough but protected by buildings or other objects. 
Edit: lol not fast enough :biggrin:

Edited by super-truite
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I just try again, alone in the server having some good fun, then one guy get on and he take the enemy side in a very open field map, I saw an tank making a long turn around from far away left side then after my tank got to damage I had to respaw, then I realized what he was doing... he get a position to camping on both spawn point, he never have intention to go for the flag, he seek for a camping even against an newbye even before our first engagement.

 

if you guys don't do something to avoid this, I'm sure that behaviour will cause damaged to your server.

I'm thinking high now to stop playing in that, because I'm get destroyed even before I finish the spawn event,.

 

 

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ickylevel

Yes being able to camp both spawns is a major problem, addressable by adding some buildings. I'm not sure of what we can do to remove it completely. Maybe an invincible AI tank?

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Maybe you can let the front base as it is.

but in the back one, perhaps an air strike (spawn new 3 heavy bombers just to do that and despawn) against any object who enter into certain distance around the back base.

that will prevent campers to do it against at least one of the bases.

obs. you always can use the power of ban the camping usual players as well.

 

Making the back base a little far from the flag helps also, perhaps the front  and near one with lower tanks.

An arty piece (indestructible) is also an option.

 

-Another issue is the line one the map conecting the flags, that cover the roads path and make harder to navigate.

-The music is awesome but a little lower volume should be better because when with head fones its blows your ears out.

 

We GTs just discover your server and all 6 of us love it, you guys did an great job in that one (they ask me to tell you).

 

Ps. I am also an map maker if you want to know how to set up the changing owner of an spwan point (that shold simplify the icons on the map) it will be my pleasure to talk about.

 

cheers

Gus

 

 

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Fritz_Faber

GusGT, I know exactly what you mean.

When I began to play tanks in AAS or attention efront missions I was completely demotivated, already killed at spawn, again and again.

I complained in chat, but all others didn't had a problem with that.

 

Now I have to say, my opinion has changed a bit.

If you are playing in a team, pushing forward to get the enemys flag is mostly a lossy venture.

Defending the flag is much easier, ambushing between houses or trees.

So it is an essential part of each attacking tactic to split your team in some guys going directly (by road) and some covering on flanks.

If you moving forward on one flank side, you are mostly, sooner or later, in position to hit tanks, both, defending flag and spawning.

 

To suppress spawning is important, that your team mates pushing to flag do have a little chance to survive.

Don't forget the planes attacking usually your front tanks first. 

Going to flag is mostly deadly because you have to spent some time their until flag is moving down and up.

 

In chat we mostly warn our mates, if s.o. is camping at spawn point, so we are switching to second spawn (with lighter tanks).

 

Flanking at beginning of tankbattles here in TC wasn't very common, but all - of our small community, all are a known by each other - have learned in between.

Now all are going to surround the enemy to reach flag (and spawn point).

 

Suppressing enemys spawning to enable your mates going to flag is a part of tactic, it is essential.

Killing you at spawning point without any intention to reach the flag is ... destructive and unfair.

 

All changes to defend or hide the spawn points are welcome 😋

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Thank you for those wise words Fritz. Despite being a newbie here (TC),

I'm aware about the multiplayer internet environment, and part of it's grace is the behave variation and interaction.

 

I can agreed that some spawn points are so close to the flag that makes impossible to not "camping" when you go for it.
I understand your point, and when the server is crowed the camping effect is kind of limitated between the caotic players moviment and tatics.
I also understand the problem for the mission builder to do something in those complex maps (and also several maps).

 

What I've experienced in this last week joing the server for the first time and since, mainly out of its prime time, when we don't have much players, is that we have some players that seams to go only for it, perhaps been pride of their 20 camping kills in 5 min over players that not even move their tanks, ruining their game experience sometimes when they have only a short time to play. That is a destructive behave and about that is my point to avoid some lame player kidnaping the server for his sick enjoy.

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super-truite
Posted (edited)

I think  the little map changes to make the second spawning base more protected and reporting  toxic players will make this problem go away.
There are some changes that need to be finished before (like the fix of the factory bug which is really annoying for planes that take one hour to destroy the factory for nothing :unsure:), but maybe ickylevel will be able to start working on it sooner than me.

 

Edited by super-truite
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ickylevel

I've addressed that issue on Engelskirchen (not deployed on server). I imagine the other map he mentions is the Prokhorovka one. 

Edited by ickylevel
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super-truite

There will be a PvP event on the server Advance And Secure as part of the Sturmovik Festival on Tuesday 27th at 7pm GMT+2https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/70490-announcing-sturmovikfest-2021/

We will prepare a special mission for it.

 

sturmovikfest-2021-forum-badge.png?w=256

1 minute ago, ickylevel said:

I've addressed that issue on Engelskirchen (not deployed on server). I imagine the other map he mentions is the Prokhorovka one. 

Probably Köln also (near the river bank)

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ST_Bump
19 hours ago, super-truite said:

There will be a PvP event on the server Advance And Secure as part of the Sturmovik Festival on Tuesday 27th at 7pm GMT+2https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/70490-announcing-sturmovikfest-2021/

We will prepare a special mission for it.

 

sturmovikfest-2021-forum-badge.png?w=256

Probably Köln also (near the river bank)

Definitely looking forward to this event, perhaps some of us can put together a team.

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Fritz_Faber
19 hours ago, ickylevel said:

I've addressed that issue on Engelskirchen (not deployed on server). I imagine the other map he mentions is the Prokhorovka one. 

 

Yes prelestnoye have at least one issue with flag and spawn seen from enemy point of view both together, and Yuzhnaya also (village where first neutral flag is at beginning of mission)...

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super-truite
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ST_Bump said:

Definitely looking forward to this event, perhaps some of us can put together a team.

Feel free to organize it with the discord or SRS. On my side I think we will have some french speaking people so I might coordinate with them as a group, but we could have some coordination in english between group leaders using an SRS for instance ? 

 

Edit: when the event is better defined I might create a form to allow people to plan in which team they want to be, which group they want to play with etc.

 

Edit: Server is restarting, will be back in a few minutes

Edited by super-truite
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super-truite

Server is up. There was a problem with the last mission, you can connect now

 

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Fritz_Faber

In Yuzhnaya we don't have any heavy tanks on blue side anymore?

After start of mission at both spawns are just Pz III and Pz IV 🤨.

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super-truite

OK I see, I am fixing the factory bug. I probably forgot to deactivate the debug for it I think (factory acts as if it is destroyed at the beginning of the mission).
Fixed for the next map rotation

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super-truite

Great news: I think the factory bug is fixed. At least it works on Köln, so bombing the factory will stop heavy tank spawns. If it gets too easy to remove heavy tanks like this I might add several targets instead of only one later.

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ickylevel

I'm investigating the stuttering issues, and I believe it's linked to the weather. When I play on a map with dark weather, not much constrast (no bloom effect), there are much less stutters. Please keep an eye open and let me know if this is the case for you: The sunnier, the more stutters.

Edited by ickylevel
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super-truite

New mission from ickylevel is up on the server ! It is on the Prokhorovka map.

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  • super-truite changed the title to Advance And Secure (Planes And Tanks)

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