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Advance And Secure (Planes And Tanks)


super-truite
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DD_Perfesser
On 2/14/2021 at 6:26 AM, super-truite said:

I finally decided to keep the russian tanks in the Koln map. Players seem to not use the M4A2 a lot and I fear there will be no one playing red :(. I will reconsider if I see angry villagers with pitchforks :biggrin:

 

PS: Games are 3hours long now @SCG_FeuerFliegen

First off, great server. Thanks very much.  Excellent work building engaging missions that rarely lack action.

 

We were playing Red yesterday. Some of the german tanks seemed overly hard to kill. City fighting is  sometimes close range and I myself fired 2 rounds point blank sabot at  what I think was a Pz 4 without killing it(one side, one rear), didn't even seem to slow it down.  Another didn't kill a Pz 4 from the rear with 4.  Every one of us started saying something wasn't right about how hard it was to kill the moving AI tanks.  Stationary tanks (in revetments) seemed normal but something didn't seem right about the others.  I don't know if that's even possible but wanted to mention it.

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super-truite

I suspect that when the server is really on his knees (when there is a "multiplayer overload" message or something in the chat) there could  be some problems for the hits to register. But I experienced what you say also in SP as well. To be honest I do not know if it is a bug or the fact that they are parts of the armor that are really tough to go through.
It happens on the german side as well: sometimes I get killed in a Tiger after having put 5 hits on the back of a t34 or on the back of a MA42. It felt like a bug but not sure.

For the PzIV I have never experienced it I think: front, side, rear everything goes through :biggrin:. For Pz V as well it feels ok on my side (near impossible to pierce from front but paper on the side :biggrin:). My main issue is with the free tanks and maybe M4A2 but not sure because contrary to its reputation, the survivability was not so bad apparently.

Do you feel that the problem comes from the server ? 

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DD_Perfesser

I have no idea why it's like that. I have no proof of anything just my subjective opinion. I couldn't survive long enough for more than a few basic observations. It just seemed to me the moving AI tanks had a much higher damage tolerance than the statics. Is the damage threshold a global setting in the mission builder? Or separate for static targets?

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SCG_FeuerFliegen

I kinda doubt it's the servers fault; there was once a time in another server when I was in a Tiger.  I shot a T34 directly in the rear and he was able to turn his turret around and kill me.  Sometimes I can't make sense of the damage model of the tanks and ammo.

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super-truite

was it a free t34 ? I have more issues with the free tanks I think. Something similar happened to me with a free t34: 5 point-blank shots directly to the rear, just a little bit of white smoke and the f..er just turned his turret and killed me in one shot (I was in a Tiger) :biggrin:. I think he even apologized in the chat :rolleyes:

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A lot of times the same happens to free pz3.  Except it can take half a dozen shots in its flank instead of rear,survive,and then oneshot you!🤬.Unreal 😆😆😆.

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super-truite

We finally did it: http://aas-il2.com/fr/mission/1092/
This is the first time the german team won this mission by taking all the flags :biggrin:!
2 minutes before the end of the timer though.
I do not understand why it is so hard for the germans. Maybe because the AI on the last flag attacks from a lot of different directions?  
 

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Thanks super-truite for this sever! 

 

 

Imagine If only we had real voice communication 👅  a tank squadron internet team would rule!

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1./JG42flesch

 

1. PZIII is a Paper Tank, one Hit-dead. Can destroy Allied Tanks only from Side at short Distance. No destroy an Allied Tank on Front.

   50mm Gun is a Pain.

2. PZIV is also a Paper Tank, one Hit -dead. Can destroy Allied Tanks on Front off middle Distance and from Side off Wide Distance.

    75mm L48 better as the Aliied 75mm Guns.

3. Panther is a Beast, can destoy all Allied Tanks on Wide Distance from Side and Front. Best Gun, reloadtime faster as Tiger.

    But only 3x Panther aviable at Beginn off Mission!

4. Tiger vor me best Tank in Game. Reloadtime slower as Panther.

    But only 1x Tiger aviable at Begin off Mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. Ferdinant is a slow rolling Bunker, Best Gun in WWII, but in Game aiming is horrible.

   Only 1x Ferdinant at Beginn off Mission!

 

Wen more as 3 or 5 Players one German Side, after 10 Minutes there are only PZIV in Aktion and with this Tank Blue cant win a Card.

 

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super-truite

I think it really depend of the map. On the most open map (Prelestnoye, the one in the Prohkhorovka map) I see  that some heavy german Tanks last more than one hour. I could maybe increase the number of panthers on maps where there is a lot of flanking opportunities. Not sure about Tiger though. Anyway I need to be careful because everyone is complaining (Russians because the Tiger is too strong and Germans because there is not enough Tigers :rolleyes:). On some servers I see that they completely remove the Tigers ... so I am more generous :biggrin:. Also when the game is really dynamic (when flags change ownership quite quickly) There is a lot more heavy tanks because you get a new Tiger at each bases. So people need to organise a bit and push!

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10 hours ago, 1./JG42flesch said:

 

1. PZIII is a Paper Tank, one Hit-dead. Can destroy Allied Tanks only from Side at short Distance. No destroy an Allied Tank on Front.

   50mm Gun is a Pain.

2. PZIV is also a Paper Tank, one Hit -dead. Can destroy Allied Tanks on Front off middle Distance and from Side off Wide Distance.

    75mm L48 better as the Aliied 75mm Guns.

3. Panther is a Beast, can destoy all Allied Tanks on Wide Distance from Side and Front. Best Gun, reloadtime faster as Tiger.

    But only 3x Panther aviable at Beginn off Mission!

4. Tiger vor me best Tank in Game. Reloadtime slower as Panther.

    But only 1x Tiger aviable at Begin off Mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. Ferdinant is a slow rolling Bunker, Best Gun in WWII, but in Game aiming is horrible.

   Only 1x Ferdinant at Beginn off Mission!

 

Wen more as 3 or 5 Players one German Side, after 10 Minutes there are only PZIV in Aktion and with this Tank Blue cant win a Card.

 

Do you want unlimited tigers and Ferdinand on every base? Maybe make all missions in an open field  as well with no cover? And put the german base on top of the hill so you could snipe everyone at their spawns? 😆.C'mon! Grow up already!!! And use heavy tanks properly instead of burning them up in the first couple of minutes and then when none left leave the server...Communication plays big role in winning the map.

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super-truite

I have been able to play a bit lately and from my experience (I play both sides):
- Prelestnoye : slight advantage to the germans but on the other hand there is not much cover to hide and big cats are vunerable to il2s. So overall quite balanced
- Koln: Advantage to the Allies because of some bugs with german AI I need to fix and because being fast and turning the turret fast gives the advantage on this one. So I might add a bit more panthers or even one more Tiger on this one. Also, shermans turn out to be really hard to kill and the AI ones often go through quite easily.
- The Kuban map: Advantage to the Allies because the late map for the germans is really hard (open fields and AI flanking). Maybe more panthers but no extra Tigers because some parts of the map would be shooting ranges for it.
- Velikie: More or less balanced I would say

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11 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

Do you want unlimited tigers and Ferdinand on every base? Maybe make all missions in an open field  as well with no cover? And put the german base on top of the hill so you could snipe everyone at their spawns? 😆.C'mon! Grow up already!!! And use heavy tanks properly instead of burning them up in the first couple of minutes and then when none left leave the server...Communication plays big role in winning the map.

Voice communications would add more excitement to the game it's to bad that IL2 did not incorporate this into the sim(or at lest I don't thinks so) could just use a third party comm?

I've been playing German for a while and noticed us always being out flanked by some really good players on the Russians side, maybe that's the real reason 

Germans losing more rounds?

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super-truite

you can use the discord server https://discord.gg/haHVZ2ujCf  but you need to motivate people to come (for a lot of players, english is not the mother tongue so not sure a lot will come). 
There is also an SRS server (Radio System). If you launch it before launching il2, it will automatically connect you to the server. Again you would need to ask players to come in a channel. Instructions to install (install the client part): https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/63326-installation-and-usage-of-srs-for-il-2-voice-comms-app/

And yes, russians have learned to flank, mainly because it is suicidal to go head on with the cats ^^.

 

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8 hours ago, 1./JG42flesch said:

Respekt RIVALDO,

 

nice Idias from You, but what will the Red Players said to this abstruse Idee?

They would say: "Bring it on!!! We ain't scared!" 

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super-truite

Maybe I could add way more heavy Tanks and see if it motivates pilots to destroy the factory ?
Reminder: if the factory is destroyed there is no more heavy tanks.
It could be tried a few weeks to see how it goes.
 

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Could you do a test with zero AI?

AI... makes the server very heavy.  I can't play, sometimes ... Is it possible to make a test? I think that without AI it's better, just leave the AT guns and static tanks, the server will be lighter and more fun.

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super-truite

I was coding a script to remove it if there is enough players. Cannot remove it completely without the script because there are hours were the server is almost empty and it would be boring for the few players playing. Also I feel the AI planes add a lot to the atmosphere. There is always something happening

Edited by super-truite
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On 2/22/2021 at 3:42 PM, super-truite said:

I was coding a script to remove it if there is enough players.

Better just remove all.

The combination of "bad weather" with "AA using laser guns" is difficult ...

The best tank battles have zero AI interference.

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Dik-Sukjak

Well I think the AI disappears as more human players join.  We just need more tankers to get into the game.  The maps are excellent -except the city maps, they suck.  I like the AI if there are only a couple of human players in the game.  Although the AI bombers can be dialed back a bit.  Definitely a great start though.  Keep up the good work!!

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Fritz_Faber

Playing a lot here, great server 👍.

Prelestnoye and Yuzhnaya are my favorites.

Köln I am only flying Me 262 to learn a bit to handle that plane. Online it's difficult to get one on other servers due to limitations.

As a tankman I don't like cities, it's a bit a roulette, hide and seek between houses ... coincidence and luck who kills whom first.

Why is Köln mission running so often?

 

AI is important for the atmosphere, especially if you are alone or there are only a few players.

I wouldn't reduce AI too much, maybe there are other possibilities to make the game run better?

 

Looking forward to another mission in Kursk (Stalingrad or Moscow) area 👀.

 

 

 

2020_1_21__21_54_54.jpg

2020_7_8__21_48_53.jpg

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super-truite

I agree regarding the AI. Köln is running a lot at the moment because it's new and it needs testing, but it will be like the others soon. Also I think it's important to have several kind of maps because we all have different tastes. In my case I like the stress you get in the city when you play hide and seek with another player controlled tank! The best I think is maps when the two (city and open fields) are mixed like Yuzhnaya

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Fritz_Faber

Played velikie luki, again I was killed twice by AI planes, not by human tankmen, not by human planes. I was perfectly hidden under trees. It is totally demotivating. For me the AI planes are still too effective 😠

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super-truite

This is an old map, the AI plane system is not the same as in others. If I have time one day I will update it. In other maps it should be less painful because planes are regularly changing of attack area and they are limited to areas with not much cover.

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super-truite

thx I restarted. It happens sometimes. If you are often on the server I can add you to the admins (you just have to type !skip in discord to go to another mission if there is a problem)

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Fritz_Faber

please try to enter your server, super-truite, you always will be kicked.

Since 24 hours nobody was able to enter any mission....

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super-truite

hmm, just tested, indeed it does not work. Really weird. It might be due to the server provider (burning data center)

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super-truite
Posted (edited)

not an easy fix and I will not have much time to solve it unfortunatly...There is no visible errors so it is hard to diagnose. I changed nothing the last few days and ports are opened, server up to date etc. :(

 

Edit: It's working now! But I did not do anything so it was probably because of the fire in the data center

Edited by super-truite
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super-truite

small update: 
- Factories should be fixed (they now deactivate the heavy tanks when they are destroyed)
- 1 more panther at each german spawn (4 in total)

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LF_Sire

I tried A&S yesterday and it's GREAT!
I will promote it on my squadron and spanish community because it well deserves it!

Need to play more before to start suggestions, but at first it seem very fun and quite balanced.
Don't remove IA, since action is needed high, even with few human players. May be you can reduce it as more human players ente (as I have read you planed).

For begginers It is quite cumbersome to learn on how to play by reading on game instructions plus all this thread for further details.

Documentation is the very boring part on development, but may be you can setup an ultra simple, ultra light online wiki page for a living-community-manual. I will gladly help you.
 

OK. I have posted on the spanish branch of these forum

Drawing the map some questions arised:

On Koln
- Why germans have two Airfields?
- What are 'RRR airfields'? Repair, refuel and rearm I suspect, but how they work on game?
- As they start on air, how planes end their mission? Landing anyplace safe?

Thx in advance

Edited by LF_Sire
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super-truite

For the doc, the main issue is where to put it :biggrin:. There is some small explanations in the mission briefing, in the info tab on the stat website and on discord. But it is not exhaustive as the rules evolved a bit since.

Thanks for the post on the Spanish forum!

On Köln:
- Because I do not want the Me262 to spawn in the air (otherwise it would arrive too quickly at the battle area)
- RRR airfields are indeed for refuel/repair/rearm. You need to go near the fire and stop the engine to repair. For refuel and rearm you need to do RAlt + A, RAlt + R or whatever is defined in your settings. It is needed on this map because there was no airfields at equal distance of the battle area for the allies and Axe, so I had to put air spawns. But with air spawns, planes cannot go back to the base and take another plane by landing. The RRR airfield allow people to land and resupply.
- They should be able to end the mission on the RRR airfield

 

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LUZITANO
On 3/7/2021 at 3:21 PM, Fritz_Faber said:

Played velikie luki, again I was killed twice by AI planes, not by human tankmen, not by human planes. I was perfectly hidden under trees. It is totally demotivating. For me the AI planes are still too effective 😠

No need to kill, just show where the tank is moving with the machine guns to the lived-players can see.


Eventually truit will find out how to make a great server with tanks.

@super-truite Advance have the Dota 2 style of being. Players must follow a path (with the "AI troops") that leads to the enemy base and there the player must destroy the buildings in order to capture the base. It's Dota 2 in the first person. I believe that some people will like this a lot more than I do ... but AI for me is... well... you know...

Advance is a good server. It's a server with a lot of personality and style, I think that's cool.
I don't know what else to say because on the one hand you are creating something new in the multiplayer of Great Battles series, but ... maybe I have to point out some things that are important: Some AI units are unable to unlook the gun in combat or are lost on the map and this can eventually harm any of the teams.

Talking about styles ... Finnish was the first big server with tanks that I played. The other servers are usually smaller ... they start with the letter A (Advance, Attentions, Actions and Achtung) and are usually designed for tanks and a small air battle. Finnish gave me the experience of "driving a lot" with tanks and the fighting works in a different way ... I think on the one hand it is realistic because the tanks really did drive a lot and not always the battles were with dozens, sometimes they were battles with few tanks that you could count on your fingers.
Each server has a style. And depending on the server you have different dynamics and feelings. 
But ... some rules do not vary so much among the largest air servers. I think you should consider removing the player arrow location on the map, since missions are usually small. Not all, but must of the great air servers do not use easy tools to navigate on the map.  But i'm saying this just to consider, WOL allows the arrow on the map and is a great server, perhaps the style of dynamics of the AAS makes the arrow indispensable.
But ... there is another detail that may not be overlooked. The info bar on airplanes. Tank players generally like the information bar on the tanks, but pilot players prefer to look at speed information and other things on the plane's dashboard. This is something to considerer, all large air servers do not show an info bar.

There are already more than 2000 active tank players ... I believe that the tanks will arrive to be strong in the IL-2 in 2021. 
Advance could be the first major tank server for the IL-2 Great Battles. 84 player capacity you already have, now ... good luck!!
 

Edited by LUZITANO
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  • super-truite changed the title to Advance And Secure (Planes And Tanks)

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