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Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War


LLv34_Untamo
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10 hours ago, UrsusArctos said:

 

 

 

I know how this is going to end. But this kind of statements makes my blood boil.

( Nothing new Buddy )

 

10 hours ago, UrsusArctos said:

First off. First planeset is historical accurate, maybe with 109F2, and i am going to remark this, WITH 15MM ONLY, is lacking. 

 

You got It! 👏, F2 !

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I know I have the record for holding the most unpopular ideas, but hear me out.

 

"Historical Planeset" seems to be the axiom, the de-facto standard for the early war years, i.e. 1940/41. From the documentary perspective that's what happened during the WWII.

 

But what I don't fully understand is why the players on this servers have to endure the realities for WWII when Axis outnumbered the VVS 2.5:1 or even 3:1 and with the crappy but "historical" planeset? 

 

We are not fighting historical war scenarios. There's just a dynamic map with its objectives and the tools (planes/tanks). And mostly the players on the server are interested in achieving the objectives. I might add I have a feeling that none of them put WWII in the context of those objectives.

 

So we end up with people who want to fly, bomb objectives, and engage in the dogfights on equal grounds. Why is "historical" context so important in these games when nobody cares for the actual history behind it? 

 

- Axis never get to experience the "Fun" of having the crappiest planes

- Axis never get to experience the disbalanced server with 30:1 against VVS.

 

The sole reasoning behind the current setup is simply because the server owner wants it like that. Can't argue with that. But from the gamer's perspective the odds are always skewed towards the Axis. Even during the late war we have 2:1 or 3:1 axis vs. VVS, which is extremely ahistorical, almost laughable, but hey.. "because it's a game" it's ok. I.e. it's ok for it be a game during the late war. But it absolutely cannot be a "Game" during the early war. What gives?

 

p.s. I've had couple of beers.. so go easy on me, folks.

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As the saying goes....

Dear Devs,

 

I'd like to talk about the game for a moment if you will. Scissors seems fine to me, and there doesn't need to be any change there. However, paper is very much overpowered and I'd like for you to take at look at his damage potential. I never appear to win against paper and I'm not sure why. Obviously it's a flaw in the game's balance and needs to be corrected.

 

Sincerely,

Rock

 

Players are going to nearly always choose any advantage they can get and complain/make excuses when they can't retain that advantage. 

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The campaign app nowadays collects statistics on player numbers. This is just from one day, as the collecting was added yesterday:
622331312_AxisplayersandAlliedplayers(1).thumb.png.41e682c60e603fd6c1a8796be0b83c12.png

All times are EET.

7 hours ago, Didney_World said:

Axis never get to experience the "Fun" of having the crappiest planes

Well, it would be a tricky situation to have axis side fly with I-16, for example. "Crappiest" planes on the axis side are in the first planeset.

Edited by LLv34_Temuri
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3 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

The campaign app nowadays collects statistics on player numbers. This is just from one day, as the collecting was added yesterday:
622331312_AxisplayersandAlliedplayers(1).thumb.png.41e682c60e603fd6c1a8796be0b83c12.png

All times are EET.

Well, it would be a tricky situation to have axis side fly with I-16, for example. "Crappiest" planes on the axis side are in the first planeset.

 

Winter war map. Have fun in Fokker and Gloster Gladiator against I-16.

 

Edit: That's is by the way what I did most of the time in original IL-2. Flew Gladiator in Finnish Gulf.

Edited by messsucher
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9 minutes ago, messsucher said:

Winter war map. Have fun in Fokker and Gloster Gladiator

I hope we'd get those planes :)

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11 hours ago, Didney_World said:

I know I have the record for holding the most unpopular ideas, but hear me out.

 

"Historical Planeset" seems to be the axiom, the de-facto standard for the early war years, i.e. 1940/41. From the documentary perspective that's what happened during the WWII.

 

But what I don't fully understand is why the players on this servers have to endure the realities for WWII when Axis outnumbered the VVS 2.5:1 or even 3:1 and with the crappy but "historical" planeset? 

 

We are not fighting historical war scenarios. There's just a dynamic map with its objectives and the tools (planes/tanks). And mostly the players on the server are interested in achieving the objectives. I might add I have a feeling that none of them put WWII in the context of those objectives.

 

So we end up with people who want to fly, bomb objectives, and engage in the dogfights on equal grounds. Why is "historical" context so important in these games when nobody cares for the actual history behind it? 

 

- Axis never get to experience the "Fun" of having the crappiest planes

- Axis never get to experience the disbalanced server with 30:1 against VVS.

 

The sole reasoning behind the current setup is simply because the server owner wants it like that. Can't argue with that. But from the gamer's perspective the odds are always skewed towards the Axis. Even during the late war we have 2:1 or 3:1 axis vs. VVS, which is extremely ahistorical, almost laughable, but hey.. "because it's a game" it's ok. I.e. it's ok for it be a game during the late war. But it absolutely cannot be a "Game" during the early war. What gives?

 

p.s. I've had couple of beers.. so go easy on me, folks.

 

This was so well written that instead of getting my Flammenwerfer 35 and begin roasting I actually slept overnight and thought about what you wrote.

 

You are completely right in that it is bad to be OP always. I myself do not enjoy that a bit. I enjoy being the underdog, who have to survive, and then if survived get eventually better planes, maybe even become OP in turn. "Balance" is meaningless for me. That is why I have enjoyed WW2 setting (have an impression that in WW1 very good switching advantage too). The balance changes several times in it, but now it seems that because the game is so incomplete the alternating balance is wrecked online and artificial anti historical balancing must be made, defeating the whole purpose of flying in WW2 setting. You can't experience WW2 in balanced setting. In the start of Operation Barbarossa on Soviet side you experience struggle, and in Lufwaffe side you experience triumph. Then the tide turns slowly. If that is made balanced then there is nothing left of WW2 air combat simulation game. You get your flying fortnite, which is what current genre air combat gamers appear to want.

 

By the way I rarely if ever give suggestions to server admins because they do their job and my job is not to give advice to them. But regarding this Finnish Virtual Pilots server I must say in completely different topic that once there is the Finnish map made it would be appreciated if Finnish planes have historic markings and German planes have historic markings, just like Soviet planes do have. I find it very irritating Finland fought to get Independence from Russia in WW1, then stopped Soviet invasion two times in WW2 and threw Germans out of Finland, but now we are still being commanded from Moscow and Berlin what markings are allowed in a historical flight sim.

 

 

Edited by messsucher
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2 hours ago, messsucher said:

In the start of Operation Barbarossa on Soviet side you experience struggle, and in Lufwaffe side you experience triumph. Then the tide turns slowly. If that is made balanced then there is nothing left of WW2 air combat simulation game. You get your flying fortnite, which is what current genre air combat gamers appear to want.

and there your point in game fails. people dont care if the sides turned. it's a game. people expect scenarios like 1945 to be reenacted in this sim, expecting to heavily outnumber the axis side (and vice versa in early scenarios). funny enough, in this sim, the sides are either about 50/50 or still axis heavy. why? because nobody cares and if people want to fly axis, they will fly axis. by experience, the planes appeal to more players due to the very forgiving and easy to manage engines. less workload. more time to focus on actually fighting.

 

people don't care about historical outcomes in a game. they want to have equal chances to triumph over the opponent, no matter what sides they fly for. and for a server to be attractive, they'll have to account for that, people dont wanna get frustrated by being forced in a "historical" scenario where they can pick the winning side or the losing side. THEY want to make their side win. they don't want the scenario to already define the winner simply based on available planes and historically accurate numbers of them.

And besides, a fair amount of players dont even give a crap about the outcome, but more about their personal stats, killstreaks etc. in which case they will fly for the side who has already the advantage in numbers or the "better" planes. less risk to get shot down, another day to keep the streak up and be "high ranked" in the stats. 

 

and then there is a few players who still fly for enjoyment (yeah it seems they exist). those who dont care about stats. those who fly whatever they feel like flying for that day/mission. that's the few who have fun no matter what. sadly tho, this game has become so competitive to some individuals that they forget what it should be about.

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1 minute ago, H_Stiglitz said:

and there your point in game fails. people dont care if the sides turned. it's a game. people expect scenarios like 1945 to be reenacted in this sim, expecting to heavily outnumber the axis side (and vice versa in early scenarios). funny enough, in this sim, the sides are either about 50/50 or still axis heavy. why? because nobody cares and if people want to fly axis, they will fly axis. by experience, the planes appeal to more players due to the very forgiving and easy to manage engines. less workload. more time to focus on actually fighting.

 

people don't care about historical outcomes in a game. they want to have equal chances to triumph over the opponent, no matter what sides they fly for. and for a server to be attractive, they'll have to account for that, people dont wanna get frustrated by being forced in a "historical" scenario where they can pick the winning side or the losing side. THEY want to make their side win. they don't want the scenario to already define the winner simply based on available planes and historically accurate numbers of them.

And besides, a fair amount of players dont even give a crap about the outcome, but more about their personal stats, killstreaks etc. in which case they will fly for the side who has already the advantage in numbers or the "better" planes. less risk to get shot down, another day to keep the streak up and be "high ranked" in the stats. 

 

and then there is a few players who still fly for enjoyment (yeah it seems they exist). those who dont care about stats. those who fly whatever they feel like flying for that day/mission. that's the few who have fun no matter what. sadly tho, this game has become so competitive to some individuals that they forget what it should be about.

 

There is nothing what failed in my point. I quote myself: "You get your flying fortnite, which is what current genre air combat gamers appear to want." You wrote a whole page of text in describing my point. But well done, I am not much into writing essays, while enjoy reading them myself.

 

I have been puzzled of this, how we should call it, third wave of flight simming? But it begin to be more clear for me on a daily basis. I have already pretty much given up online, thinking offline with bad AI is better than anti historical online and all the stat freak balance circus in it.

 

Anyway, I gave this more thought and think that there should be more slow campaigns, in which planes entering service would be better represented.

 

Now it seems the course of war has been simplified into a few stages, which each have this "plane set", and which has been tried to make balanced, and which is not balanced, hence people want changes for it to become balanced. This is one way to make an online campaign, simplify and abstract the war into a few stages, which try to serve the current majority requirement where things has to happen quick so that no attention span problems come and where things are "balanced".

 

The alternative way of doing it would be to include an aircraft into a campaign one model at a time. That way the advantage would move more naturally to the side getting the latest and greatest.

 

Anyway, the purpose of a server is to serve the demands and needs of players, and the demand is for flying fortnite. I am not going to wage war against that. I have my offline campaigns I can make specifically for myself. So I suggest nothing, I demand nothing, I don't need anything, I am here just for discussions I find interesting.

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Any ideas when we can see the updated Tank sets on the server?  The group I play with and I are planning a huge combined arms push (not that massive in terms of actual number of players involved however) that we hope will entice players to pay more attention to the ground war and will get tank fanatics some more action.

I know you guys said they'd be in after a few plane set rotations, I was just wondering if the server wizards had any estimates as to when that might be.  Thanks!

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9 hours ago, Shively said:

Any ideas when we can see the updated Tank sets on the server?


On stats.virtualpilots.fi "Current mission information" page you can see that we are on set #3 currently. And on the "Info" page you can see the sets. And on set #5 there will be the first "artillery spawn" tanks. And each set lasts for 2 days.

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Damn, that's considerably sooner than I expected.  Can't wait!  The combined arms gameplay is what makes this server stand above others.  Keep up the great work!

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17 hours ago, KoN_ said:

We need 100 player servers its 2020 . 

We need 3000 AI objects servers, it's 2020. :)

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In old IL-2 the limit was 255 players...  We had SEOW campaigns with 100+ players with 5000 stationary and 800 moving units.

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3 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

In old IL-2 the limit was 255 players...  We had SEOW campaigns with 100+ players with 5000 stationary and 800 moving units.

Yes Played may times flying with squads every Sunday with good stats reports and medals and rank structure . 

Great days . ! 

But i feel this game cant handle that sort of game play . I had high hopes it would with the tanks coming into the battle ground on servers . 

Would be nice to know what direction this franchise is going in . 

Its a great looking game with good damage modelling , sound effects  .

But online is so shallow .

Many players just Take off circle any objective wait for bomber or fighter, dive down shoot kill ,  land , repeat . 😆

I have no idea how the map making servers work or how too map make , it looks way too complicated for me .

So i do appreciate the efforts of the map maker to what we do have . 😀

But the good old days of SEOW i think are gone .

 

Edited by KoN_
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1 hour ago, KoN_ said:

Yes Played may times flying with squads every Sunday with good stats reports and medals and rank structure . 

Great days . ! 

But i feel this game cant handle that sort of game play . I had high hopes it would with the tanks coming into the battle ground on servers . 

Would be nice to know what direction this franchise is going in . 

Its a great looking game with good damage modelling , sound effects  .

But online is so shallow .

Many players just Take off circle any objective wait for bomber or fighter, dive down shoot kill ,  land , repeat . 😆

I have no idea how the map making servers work or how too map make , it looks way too complicated for me .

So i do appreciate the efforts of the map maker to what we do have . 😀

But the good old days of SEOW i think are gone .

 

 

The closest I have seen in Great Battles is the 'Friday Night Bomber Flight'  I am not sure what the numbers were but it seemed to be about 30 or 40 per side in an organised limited life two hour battle with set objectives.  Unfortunately that only works as a weekly event with reserved slots etc.  and it is a lot of work which is why the guy running it gave up eventually.     There may have been others that worked in a similar manner but I think that was the only one run at a time convenient for European pilots so that is the only one I played.   Personally, if I had a choice then that is the only way I would play IL2.      Way back, probably over 30 years!,  I used to fly in 'Warbirds' that had events twice a week as well as normal dogfight servers and I did literally only go online for the events towards the end.  Large formations of bombers with escorts, 50 per side, flying for over an hour just to get to the target. It was glorious.

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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9 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

The closest I have seen in Great Battles is the 'Friday Night Bomber Flight'  I am not sure what the numbers were but it seemed to be about 30 or 40 per side in an organised limited life two hour battle with set objectives.  Unfortunately that only works as a weekly event with reserved slots etc.  and it is a lot of work which is why the guy running it gave up eventually.     There may have been others that worked in a similar manner but I think that was the only one run at a time convenient for European pilots so that is the only one I played.   Personally, if I had a choice then that is the only way I would play IL2.      Way back, probably over 30 years!,  I used to fly in 'Warbirds' that had events twice a week as well as normal dogfight servers and I did literally only go online for the events towards the end.  Large formations of bombers with escorts, 50 per side, flying for over an hour just to get to the target. It was glorious.

I really think this game needs some multiplayer love . push it to 100 players . Work the net-code out .

hell im flying in 4k res with FXAA . looks lovely . 

But i want online wars . 😆 like we had .

Im sure Thor did maps . ?

There was also another event  . ADW i think . cant remember anyone have any-ideas ROSS was top squad . 

109s vs Spits . ect 

http://www.seowhq.net/seowwiki-en/index4875.html?title=Main_Page

 

 

 

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On 10/15/2020 at 10:38 PM, LLv34_Temuri said:

The SU-122 will come in set 4.

When does the Ferdinand  get added ,   set 4 also ?

On 10/15/2020 at 10:13 PM, LLv34_Untamo said:


On stats.virtualpilots.fi "Current mission information" page you can see that we are on set #3 currently. And on the "Info" page you can see the sets. And on set #5 there will be the first "artillery spawn" tanks. And each set lasts for 2 days.

Also,  where on the current mission info  can you see what set is being used currently ?  I click the link in the first QA  and  get a front map

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7 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

When does the Ferdinand  get added ,   set 4 also

Ah, forgot the Ferdi. I'll add it to set #8.

 

7 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

where on the current mission info  can you see what set is being used currently

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/faq/

8 hours ago, KoN_ said:

But i want online wars . 😆 like we had .

I've heard good things come to those who wait :)

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Just want to apologize to @[Ladds]Lama for friendly fire, my ID-ing was total crap, mistaken him for earlier damaged 109 so i damaged him quite badly....😬!

Sorry Lama and hats down to you for staying cool!

 

S!

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-Six-IAmLordeYaYaYa

I'm a new player who's looking to dip my toes into multiplayer once i get my Delanclip next month! This seems to be a good server to join in on the fun with! Am Finnish too so connection would probably be pretty gouud, is there many Finns playing IL2? Not that it matters but just curious.

On 10/2/2020 at 8:27 PM, -SF-Disarray said:

It has more to do with legal repercussions for the devs than social media fallout. The symbol is legally prohibited in Russia. The devs are based in Russia. If you don't like that, take it up with the Duma.

Another option would be to form a militia and plan a coup to take over the Kremlin and just change the laws back so that people can start using the Swastikas in IL2, it's actually plausible when you think about it.

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1./JG42flesch

At Mission 9815 the Red Side has 40x SU122, 10x SU 152 and 40x KV1!!

The Blue Side had no Panther, no Tiger, no Ferdinand!!!!!!

Is this the new Balancing for Tanks on Finnish Server?

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13 hours ago, 1./JG42flesch said:

At Mission 9815 the Red Side has 40x SU122, 10x SU 152 and 40x KV1

Ah, I forgot to edit the numbers for SU-122 and KV-1. Halving them now.

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69th_Mobile_BBQ

I was looking at my stats page awards medals.  There's one on there that says "Fighter Hero" but, there's no picture of a medal or description of what I did to receive this award.  

I just thought admin might be interested in seeing if there's an error in the medals display.

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23 hours ago, CCG_Pips said:

LOL

 

If there's something wrong, could you be a bit more specific?

Edited by LLv34_Untamo
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1 hour ago, Winterz said:

German front depot 2 destroyed but still showing 76%

It's showing 0 for sector #2 German front depot. Front troops is at 76%

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JG300_Winterz
45 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

It's showing 0 for sector #2 German front depot. Front troops is at 76%

oh yep my bad, well I dont know then

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18 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

 

If there's something wrong, could you be a bit more specific?

 

If you don't see a problem, it is most probably because there is no trouble 🙄

18 hours ago, Winterz said:

German front depot 2 destroyed but still showing 76%

 

(I guess)

 

Looks:

 

SECTOR #1 GERMAN ADVANCE = 3 kms  -

 

GERMANS: FRONT TROOPS:  94%                       RUSSIANS:   FRONT TROOPS:  94% 

                     ARTY                   :  76%                                          ARTY                   :    100%

                  F. DEPOT               :   16%                                      F. DEPOT               :     0%

                  R. DEPOT              :   100%                                    R. DEPOT              :     73%

                  STATION               :    65%                                      STATION               :     100%

 

 

 

SECTOR # 2 NO ADVANTAGE FOR BOTH SIDES

 

 

GERMANS:  FRONT TROOPS:   94%                       RUSSIANS:   FRONT TROOPS:  81% 

                     ARTY                     :  21%                                             ARTY                   :    100%

                  F. DEPOT                :   0%                                           F. DEPOT               :      100%

                  R. DEPOT               :   51%                                        R. DEPOT              :        69%

                  STATION                :    0%                                          STATION               :       31%

 

Untamo ?  you still don't see a trouble ?

Edited by CCG_Pips
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11 hours ago, CCG_Pips said:

Untamo ?  you still don't see a trouble ?


Mmmmmmmm no... you'll have to spell it out to me. If you are referring to the Sector #2 German F.Depot and Station being at 0% and no progress made on the red side, then it might be that there we're no F.Depot and/or station on the German side at all in that mission. But I haven't checked, so this is just speculation. If this was the case (no F.Depot/Station and no progress), then it the result is fine. The system places stuff with specific rules, and sometimes it leads to a situation where it cannot place something (Depot/Station for example), but this is taken into account when calculating sector health and therefore in the progress calculations.

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Please check. There was German Front depot and Station. System of results and moving front have a bug. It is not the first time I can check this kind of trouble.

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One thing that also can throw your calculations off is that different targets have different amount of "sector health" points. For example, the quite recently added rear depot type has quite a bit of health compared to other targets.

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S!

 

Rules update, addition:

- If you have something to report about another player, do it PRIVATELY with a forum PM, Discord PM or by e-mail ("gameserver(at)virtualpilots(dot)fi"). Public posting will result on punishment of the REPORTER. This is to avoid flame wars.

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Noticed that I need to do an update on the tank stats side of the stats system. Currently, tank sorties with Ferdinand are broken in stats.

 

Edit: Should be fixed now.

Edited by LLv34_Temuri
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