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Tactical Air War

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Maybe we will add some probability to resupply a plane after ditched. To recover one plane you have to fly 3x10min on any plane. Plane with minimum number will be resupplied. 

Thanks for info.

 

Ramm.

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Maybe we will add some probability to resupply a plane after ditched. To recover one plane you have to fly 3x10min on any plane. Plane with minimum number will be resupplied.

 

Maybe make a ditched plane available again after a 'repair time' of 24, 36, XX hours, but therefore set back the recover 3x 10 min to 3x 20 min?

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Test season ends.

Congratulation to every participant.

 

Plz leave your votes.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22737-tactical-air-war-mission-time/?do=findComment&comment=362709

 

Gentelmans!!!

I have veeery importnant question.

The plan is to keep the server runing 24/7 and available for all time zones but this is causing really big problem with side balance.

We would like to avoid situations when 1-3 players can capture the area and win the map.

 

So we would like to set an qvorum rule.

It means that the script is not working without some players on the map.

Example:
0 Red - 0 Blue, script in coma,

1 Red - 0 Blue, script in coma,

0 Red - 3 Blue, script is working,

10 Red - 0 blue, script in coma.

 

That solution can prevent situations like we had on test stage. On first map, blue team had more players online and he won the map. On 2nd red team recived back up and finally won the map.

In 3rd, Reds just used the occasion, captured are at noon without any resistance and then finished the art of destruction with numerous advantage at night.

 

How we can avoid such situations ?

1. Estabilishing the qvorum rule. Small ants wont have chance to win the map alone when everyone else is at work or sleeping.

2. Increasing the AAA defence of the objects.  Now 2-3 players can easily kill the defence line and allow the tanks move forward. Defence line object is too easy to kill.

3. Increasing the AAA on airfields and increase the limit of planes needed for capturing the airfield. Now the AAA on airfields is useless. Vulchers can do everything. Enemy can easily fly in the flak and fight above the bases. 

To capture the area by tanks you need to protect them for 3-4 rounds till they reach the city/airbase, you also need to kill the defence line and supply column.

Or you can just land with 4 + -/+2 planes on the enemy airfield and you will have an quick and easy victory.

Its too easy specially when there is no enemies on the server and you have a lot lads on board.

 

 

I would like to hear your opinions about that subject.

 

Just easiy report
1. 

2.

3.

Write your opinion and solution, report the proposed numbers for qvorum, number of AAA in column, on airfield, number of planes needed for the capture etc.

Like we mentioned few posts back, we will turn off the AAA ACE mode, so keep that in mind.

There will be only NORMAL and LOW AAA.

 

My proposition is to

 

1. qvorum 5 - 0/ 1-1 - scipt ON, 10 - 0 script OFF ( but you can collect points for planes all the time )

2. + 2 88 flak & +2 20mm AAA on defence line, columns are OK now.

3. + 4 88 flak + 4 20 mm AAA on airfield, all in normal mode.  10 bombers to capture the airfield ( simulates huge air operation like in real ).

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I dont know about you gents, but I feel like the german 20mm AAA is useless while the russian 37mm is overpowered.

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I dont know about you gents, but I feel like the german 20mm AAA is useless while the russian 37mm is overpowered.

 

We use the same AAA, just changing the side in properties. So you are wrong.

 

Plz keep the scheme #1,#2,#3 for the answers.

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  1. qvorum :

    IF (Nb on 1 side == 0)

         script OFF

    ELSE

       IF (All players > 5 AND All Player / Nb side with less player < 3)

         script on

       ELSE

         script off

       ENDIF

    ENDIF

     

  2. Adding some hard targets needing 250kg bombs or more
  3. +2 Flak88, +2 AAA, 6 bombers to capture.

The script should stay in coma until there is not more than 5 players on the server and that the balance is more than 3 against 1 (so at least we will have 3 vs 2. For 20 on one side, we need to reach 7 players on the other side for the script to be turned on)

 

For the defense line I don't know about the AA, but I guess that we should use bombers to destroy them, not only LaGG3, so adding 1 or 2 hard objects that needs 250kg bombs at least could be a good workaround.

 

10 bombers is too much with the time we have. This objective must be achievable or nobody will ever try it. 10 could be a good number when there is more than 10 players gathering over TS, but it doesn't happen very often...

 

The good thing is that we could gather points even if the script is off!

 

thanks again for all your efforts!

Edited by NN_RugbyGoth

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1. quorum

The balancing 3 vs 1 is principally a worthy thing, but on well populated server it's hard to recognize for the player, wether the script is counting now. ( i.e. Normandie Njemen or StG2 Squad want to jump in with 5 Pilots for cordinated attack run and switch of the script by pushing the balance 3,1 vs 1.)

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1. I don't really have a solution for the Quorum but I think It should not be that easy for a side to intentionally deactivate the script by leaving the server.

2. I'm agree with RugbyGoth, you should add some hard targets. Actually we are already pretty afraid to attack a defense position or a column by ourselves without reinforcements. And ground targets should be treated mostly with bombers, right ?

3. 10 bombers to capture is a bit much I think, 5 or 6 seems right.

 

Last night we had no real opposition for the end of the campaign, even if it was not too late a saturday. The germans left the server around 11:30 PM.

The problem I saw is when there was only one airfield active for the germans, they couldn't fight back and they left the server. We had to strafe them on the taxiway or burn them in flames as soon as they took off.

I'm not proud of that but we had no choice right ? We had to maintain sky superiority over the last airfield to secure our bombers for them to land safely.

Regarding of that, perhaps you should stop the campaign when there is only one airfield left, or activate an emergency backup airfield which we don't need to attack.

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1. I'd make it a minimum of 10 players to move the map, regardless of sides. There are times when the enemy is nowhere to be seen, so that can be simulated.

2. I don't find the defence lines are particularly easy. Last time we attacked one with three people it took three whole sorties, losing one aircraft with others heavily damaged, to destroy one. You shouldn't necessarily need a combined 10 bomber strike to destroy a couple of AT guns, that job was usually done by groups of 2-6 aircraft at best flying repeated sorties, as it is now.

3. Having 10 bombers to capture an airfield is good. You need aircraft, personnel and so on to arrive. You could also make it that only aircraft that are landed on said airfield can take-off from there (so for example if I want to load it with Il-2s, I take Il-2s from the nearest airfield and ferry them over). The AAA is indeed weak over the airfields, an increase in either number or skill would do the trick.

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For the qvorum, as I understand it, it's based on the number of active players during the mission. So we know the script is on or not at the end of the round. An active player is someone who took off at least 1 time, right?

 

Perhaps parsing the logs to know how many active players there was during each mission could help finding what should be the triggerring ratio.

Edited by NN_RugbyGoth

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From the "for what it's worth" department.

 

 

1. Establishing the qvorum rule. Small ants wont have chance to win the map alone when everyone else is at work or sleeping.

 

I understand the problem and have seen large numbers (10-15 players) flying with no opposition. It is however not the fault of the players that there is no opposition. One of the attractions of the server was that, even if no one was on the opposing side, your sorties still mattered. Don't get me wrong, I would rather see both sides filled (although I wish they couldn't see where we are spawning). Under the new proposed rules, coming on to fly a few sorties won't mean anything to your side unless there are enough people on. The question is, won't that just keep people away thus defeating the intent to bring people into the server? If a squad has an event planned and 10 guys show up but there is no enemy, if they know their efforts will not matter, won't they go elsewhere? I see a couple of other options though I wonder how acceptable they would be.

 

A. With quorum rule - Lock players to a side only for the current mission and not the whole campaign. This would allow players coming into a server to choose a side to help balance it for the quorum rule. If this ability to choose either side coming into a mission were in place it might eliminate the need for a quorum rules in the first place.  As a rule the squad I fly with always chooses the side with the least number of players.

 

B. With no quorum rule – When sides are unbalanced (to a point where the proposed quorum rules would make the mission stats inactive), trigger a few random AI fighter aircraft that patrol defensive targets. This allows all sorties to count regardless of numbers or sides and it would keep players on one sided missions on their toes. The AI essentially make the quorum.

 

C. What I think would work best – A combination of A & B with no quorum rule.

 

 

 

2. Increasing the AAA defence of the objects. Now 2-3 players can easily kill the defence line and allow the tanks move forward. Defence line object is too easy to kill.

 

With current settings, it is difficult to take out the defense line with only a couple of players without getting shot up pretty bad in the process. I wouldn't mind however seeing more targets to hit at the defense line. If targets are too well defended it will take too many sorties to take them out within the time available in a mission.

 

 

 

3. Increasing the AAA on airfields and increase the limit of planes needed for capturing the airfield. Now the AAA on airfields is useless. Vulchers can do everything. Enemy can easily fly in the flak and fight above the bases.

 

 

Additional and better AAA is needed at airfields. As it stands, the AAA at target areas seems better than the AAA at spawn airfields. Currently it is very easy for even a couple of vulchers to dominate spawn bases. AAA at an airfield should make vulching a death wish.

 

 

Cheers!

Edited by 12.OIAE_Stick-95

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1. qvorum 10 - 0/ 2-2 - scipt ON, >5 - 0 script OFF ( but you can collect points for planes all the time )

2. +- 2 88 flak & +-2 20mm AAA on defence line, you can randomize this? Columns are OK now, should be randomized too?. Or put diferent defense and attack levels

3. +- 4 88 flak +- 4 20 mm AAA on airfield, all in normal mode. 5 bombers to capture the airfield, 10 is really hard to do with actual amount of players. 
Airfields can have diferent rules and sizes. Small fields with less AAA and less required bombers to capture.

I think the server should be Random in most of aspects. I really like more unpredictable events

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If possible, I propose the quorum to work like it was in ADW. It was calculated per sortie i.e. if there is enough pilots on the server when you takeoff the ground kills are counted.

 

1. quorum 5 - 1/ 3-3 - scipt ON ( but you can collect points for planes all the time )

2. + 2 88 flak & +2 20mm AAA on defence line, columns are OK now.

3. + 4 88 flak + 4 20 mm AAA on airfield, all in normal mode.  5 bombers to capture the airfield

  • Upvote 1

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1. qvorum 5 - 1/ 3-3 - scipt ON, difference between players more than 15 (i.e. 16 reds - 1 blue) maybe 10 ? - script OFF ( but you can collect points for planes all the time )

2. + 4 88 flak (NORMAL)& + 4 20mm AAA on defence line (ACE) + more hard targets for bombers. Defence line shouldn't be destroyed only by fighters or sturmoviks. If possible  - make defence line bigger in numbers of objeckts

3. + 6 88 flak (NORMAL) + 8 20 mm AAA on airfield (ACE).  5 bombers to capture the airfield.

 

Ad. 2,3 - if it possible  - add a 15 sec delay in AAA firing (especially 20 mm). Enemy ac should make one pass over af before 20 mm will start firing. Cooridinate atack of 5-8 enemy aircraft should have element of surprise. If atack will be well organised - all 20 mm guns should be destroyed in first pass.

 

Turn off (if it possible) the red circle on map when own af is being atacked.

 

Ramm.

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We use the same AAA, just changing the side in properties. So you are wrong.

 

And yet, everytime I get shotdown by the 61K-AAA(the 37mm) or whatever its called. I was never hit or shotdown by the Flak38. That tell us something about the accuracy and destruction power of both... 

 

 

1. no idea

2. +4 flak 88 and +4 37mm on def lines. supply and tank columns are fine the way they are

3. if you want vulching impossible just put an insane number of 37mm around the airfield

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I would love to moan about the AAA in this game not the `server but the game , but it wont get me anywhere .   :biggrin:

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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add a 15 sec delay in AAA firing (especially 20 mm). Enemy ac should make one pass over af before 20 mm will start firing. Cooridinate atack of 5-8 enemy aircraft should have element of surprise. If atack will be well organised - all 20 mm guns should be destroyed in first pass.

 

I'd guess they start firing because you can hear engines from pretty far out, and direct your guns there. Also, spotters on the front can communicate it to the base, so realistically it's hard to surprise them before the guns have time to aim.

 

If you come in from different directions or clouds then the flak is done for though.

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Guys another very important thing.

If we want to increase the number of targets and increase the maximum player slot number for the server we need to think about renting a new better one to avoid the freeze/lag problems.

On the first map we didnt noticed any, but on 2nd there was some problems.

 

 

Blakhart, I don't think freezing/lags can be solved with different hardware. Server has Xeon CPU 4cores@3,8Ghz, 16GB RAM, 1Gbit Internet connection (see pics below). Problems are probably within game engine and dserver since they don't utilize the hardware to the full extent.

 

post-3029-0-40541900-1465193163_thumb.jpg

 

post-3029-0-03244500-1465193164_thumb.jpg

 

post-3029-0-47811600-1465193165_thumb.jpg

 

  • Upvote 1

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Thx for the comments.

Yesterday we had a brainstorm on LG TS.

Thanks to your active voting we know what you expect and prefer.

Quick info from some of the vital changes accepted yesterday.

#mission time increased to 1 hr 45 +/-5 minutes.
#separate spawn points, but bomber spawn point moved to apron far from the runway
#number of AAA increased on defence line & airfield, Ace mode deleted, ratio - 80%Normal-20%Low,
#object icon will disapear when the target will be destroyed in 100%
#there will be information about attacked ground targets with random 2-4 minutes delay, repeated after every 3 minutes if the enemy is still attacking.
#system point - 1 Air Kill = 1 Tank Kill , ground kills are - trucks, artillery, AAA, buildings, fuel, hangars, etc.
# to finish the flight you will need to wait 15 seconds
# to capture the field you need to destroy the field in 75 % and land there with 7 planes
#

For now we dont have enough participants to estabilish qvorum rule and we afraid that we will loose the popularity because of the qvorum.
Thats why we changed some rules or settings to prevent situations when group of 3 players can push the frontline.

Istruba.
We prepared new versions of the defence line with the same 20mm AAA. But they werent active. You had right. In next campaign both sides will face the same AAA in objects.

Ramm.
If you know how to set 15 sec delay in AAA plz tell us.


Mannfred
Thx for the info.

Edited by =LG=Blakhart
  • Upvote 4

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# to finish the flight you will need to wait 15 seconds

 

Wait after bail out and after land on af ?

Clicking "finish" button before 15 sec will bring "disco" status ? 

 

Ramm.

If you know how to set 15 sec delay in AAA plz tell us.

 

 

I do not know how to set it. I've wrote "if possible"

I will ask somewhere else about it.

 

Ramm.

Edited by JG700_Rammjager

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After bail out you click finish flight button and still need to wait 15 seconds before the game will let you enter the menu.

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The AAA is fair enough. VVS and German have different airplanes, why not AAA's?
 
If you equal AAA why not put same planes to each side? 
 
Do you have troubles with AAA? Learn how to deal with it! Same thing on air. I have troubles with slowest planes, but i dont ask for equality, i am just sit down and learn how to win!

Just my opinion of course.
  • Upvote 3

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The AAA is fair enough. VVS and German have different airplanes, why not AAA's?
 
If you equal AAA why not put same planes to each side? 
 
Do you have troubles with AAA? Learn how to deal with it! Same thing on air. I have troubles with slowest planes, but i dont ask for equality, i am just sit down and learn how to win!

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

 

How many people, so many opinions. The only reason we decided to give all same AAA is to stop people from complaning "Oh they have better AAA it's unfair ... blah blah blah". We want to start the next campagin as soon as possible so there was no time for next voitng etc. We made some dedicions, and in next campagin we will find out how it works. The whole TAW thing is in development so you have to understand that we might make mistakes, but we are not closed minded and we listen to people.

  • Upvote 4

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Since day one there has been complaints about the way the AAA works , Flying at 4k in a 109 at speeds of 500 and getting instant kill from one shot AAA is enough to frustrate people , Also lone wolfs doing ground attacks against targets and getting snipped flying lower than eye sight level and AAA firing through trees is also enough to frustrate people . ! 

Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit moving targets .

I think the AAA move is a good idea , if the server has only three people on, then they would go the easy option to go ground attack , if no Ai present . Besides it can always be changed , i look forward to flying it . 

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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i think, Quorum is good idea, but now no need for Quorum, not yet.

Is it possible, to have Ace-AAA by 0-3 or 0-10?

And normal-AAA for 1-3 or 1-10?

 

Hope we can register Staffel/Gruppen someday. Not only Single Players.

 

But thanks for good Work! :good: Happy to see new Online War! post-15762-0-38491800-1465369595.gif

 

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Since day one there has been complaints about the way the AAA works , Flying at 4k in a 109 at speeds of 500 and getting instant kill from one shot AAA is enough to frustrate people , Also lone wolfs doing ground attacks against targets and getting snipped flying lower than eye sight level and AAA firing through trees is also enough to frustrate people . ! 

Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit moving targets .

I think the AAA move is a good idea , if the server has only three people on, then they would go the easy option to go ground attack , if no Ai present . Besides it can always be changed , i look forward to flying it . 

 

But you know that, while we was flying in russian planes we suffered same things? 1 shot kill at 5k It's fully normal when you get direct hit from flak, It's happens very rarely but I died once or twice like that too. AAA shoting throught trees, clouds etc It's developers problem not our fault, we can't do anything with it. And the topic about moving ground targets have been discussed before, and with system that developers made It's hard to make it for now, maybe some day.

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The AAA is fair enough. VVS and German have different airplanes, why not AAA's?
 
If you equal AAA why not put same planes to each side? 
 
Do you have troubles with AAA? Learn how to deal with it! Same thing on air. I have troubles with slowest planes, but i dont ask for equality, i am just sit down and learn how to win!

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

 

 

FlyMaker.

Hmmm...

 

Just check the planeset please. Do you really want to have original 37 russian AAA but fly with basic set on Lagg-3 vs 109-F4 like it should be done.

Destroy the gameplay atmosphere and motivation for the flying?

If we try to balance the planeset we also try to balance the static objects & AAA as well.

 

37 mm hit is usually instant death. 20mm hit is a critical wound but you still can survive and go back at least to your friendly lines.

Do we want to scary the people of attacking the ground targets.

The answer is NO.

 

Thats why we decided to use the same 20mm AAA on both sides,which can cause a serious damage but still let you to disengage, save your life and have more fun. 

 

Another news

# Ditched plane can be repaired!

Your ground engineers need to take the wreck on the transport car and then fix it in the hangar.

It can take randomly 2-3 days of the campaign.

Now 2 missions are treated as a 1 day.

  • Upvote 2

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Can't wait the new campaign to begin !

Keep up the good work guys.

Edited by -IRRE-Biluf

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According to ressults of the last voting.

 

1. Human tanks 31No-32Yes - no majority, but still we have some people interested, feature "frozen"for future development

2. Landing troops 24No-40Yes - majority for YES. So we will keep the landing troops idea, however it has to be a hard operation. We dont want to change our online war in to arcade campaign. Details soon.

3. Strategic targets 61YES-2NO - The question is... Who said "NO" :D After interrogation we will make a public egzecution...

 

Thx for your votes.

  • Upvote 2

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3. Strategic targets 61YES-2NO - The question is... Who said "NO" :D After interrogation we will make a public egzecution...
 

 

i dont like says everything "YES"  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

 

 pls die another  :lol:  :lol:  :biggrin:

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