Jump to content
=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

Recommended Posts

On 7/31/2019 at 9:10 AM, Norz said:

Dear admins,

 

can you change the settings for the overcast missions?

 

No one (almost) plays  these missions. (clouds 600m)

 

Spoiler

 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2019 at 10:25 PM, JG4_Widukind said:

ehm any news about 3 Lives System?

The start is so sudden, I'm surprised. Already in midsummer?
 
 

No changes in 3 Lives System. 

 

On 7/28/2019 at 5:03 PM, JG51_Ogg said:

Once again asking to neuter the PE2 gunners.  They  make impossible shots and get kills while the plane is outrunning the "TOP LINE" fighter for the Axis.

third map and I'm already set to start ramming to get rid of PE2s.  But hell why worry when you can just fly 3 5 minute transport flights to get it back

They are set to the lowest level. 

 

On 7/28/2019 at 5:39 PM, LLv44_Mprhead said:

Are there player number limitations for each side this time around?

Yes.

 

 

On 7/31/2019 at 9:10 AM, Norz said:

Dear admins,

 

can you change the settings for the overcast missions?

 

No one (almost) plays  these missions. (clouds 600m)

1657972768_tawovercast.thumb.png.576dc34760ec0be68aebc26cc9bc1d68.png

 

There were 4 overcast missions out of almost 50 mission. Clouds level varies from 600m to 1000m. That mission was the worst case scenario (only 600m). 

 

 

On 7/31/2019 at 11:07 AM, 1./JG42flesch said:

The Missions with Overcoast Weather (600m Clouds) are totally BS!

I am a Groundatacker, fly in the Clouds and can see nothing, but the overmodelt AAA see me, shot and killt me.

That is so frustation.

I will check the AA and maybe lower even more the AI level during the overcast weather.

 

 

18 hours ago, GoshBocheAreTosh said:

I have a question about the capture mechanic. Just 5 minutes ago, I crash landed just inside friendly front lines (pictured below) and was captured.
My understanding was that if you land, or parachute, in friendly territory the chance of capture is 0%. This is obviously not the case, so my question is: how is capture probability modelled in friendly territory?

Inked307960_20190731161332_1_LI.jpg

The front line has about 2km error. So landing or bailing out very close to the front line may result as captured.

 

 

13 hours ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Please ban this guy

 

Nobb is no a excuse... hi shot me 3 times when i was landing over friend airfield

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8210&name=666GIAP_Tumu

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8297&name=morhysnougat

 

i was killed burned on my cockpit ,

thx mate

Grounded for 36 missions.

 

 

13 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

This also prompts a minor TAW website request.   "Shotdown" is listed in green for the attacking pilot and does not specify that it was a FF/TK.   It's obvious he did it.  I just thought I'd point out how it looks in the event log. 

Good point.

  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

 

 

They are set to the lowest level. 

 

 

For me no problem i always shoot myself anyway.

 

I also understand the concept od saving the precious wanaby hartmanns egos.

 

I Hope though that in all fairness this is valid for all planes on both sides and not only Pe2. 

Edited by Carl_infar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

22 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

all gunners are on low level ? nice to know .

 

Who did say that?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

 

Who did say that?

 

 


its like 4 posts above you. And it was mentioned in the past. But they remain at a bs level^^

1 hour ago, =LG=Kathon said:

They are set to the lowest level. 

 

Edited by DerSheriff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:)

 

maybe im too brave... but considering all gunners on game are snipers... is logic to me set all gunners to low .... but maybe im wrong... 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

:)

 

maybe im too brave... but considering all gunners on game are snipers... is logic to me set all gunners to low .... but maybe im wrong... 


Nah. Ur ingame gunners consider this as a stable gunbplattform
giphy.gif

  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:


its like 4 posts above you. And it was mentioned in the past. But they remain at a bs level^^

 

 

Was it not about AAAs?

 

P.S. Now i see it.

 

Is it only for Pe2s or for all planes? I prefer the level "God" for the gunners. Otherwise you do not have any chance in He111 or Ju87 or Ju88 or Bf110. I was shot down 36 hours ago in He111 and we were suprised that i16 was on my six something like 30 seconds long at the distance 200m almost without any trouble.

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=6300&name=Norz

 

 

Edited by Norz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday I did a decent approach from high 12 of the bomber in a split S. As I was diving beside him after the manœuvre my pilot got sniped. Seems like I can only do headon approaches from now on, and still might get hit as I cross him after the pass.. Even the lead bomber got hits on me during my accrobatics. Thought for sure they were ace or veteran gunners at least.. 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8022&name==FSB=Man-Yac

I know it's beating a dead horse but I was unware all gunners were novice :o 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:


Nah. Ur ingame gunners consider this as a stable gunbplattform
giphy.gif


I think they actually prefer the high-g maneuvers! 

I was flying straight and level in my pe-2 last night and was attacked from six o'clock by FOUR different enemy fighters (two 110 and 2 109). The 109 was on my tail  firing constantly for almost 20 seconds, mostly hitting with his MGs. I figured if I stayed low and forced him to pursue at high six my  gunner would get him, but no such luck.

 My gunner couldn't hit squat and only after I had both engines damaged and my wings shot to hell did he finally start to get hits - this was also when I started maneuvering more aggressively if I remember correctly. Maybe my gunner wanted a challenge?

First 109E's attack starts at 2:55:51. No hits from my gunner until 2:56:08, and the attack is constant, so its not like these were slashing attacks and he stayed out of range.  Got some hits on one 110 but nothing serious. The other two fighters went completely unscathed. And one of my gunners got killed and the other was wounded (its not impossible after all). The other three fighters kept up slashing attacks despite the fact that I was trailing smoke from both engines, leaking fuel, had lost most of my pitch control and was fifty feet above the forest. The remaining 109 set me on fire after my engine went out and as I was trying to get enough altitude to bail. 

The gunners appear to run the gamut from luckless oafs to god-touched ballistic savants with no rhyme or reason (sometimes its the same guy in the same sortie!), and I seem to get stuck with the oafs. If you see a Pe-2 flying around and you're not sure if you want to risk attacking it, just check to see if I'm flying it.

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8805&name=RedKestrel

It also must be said that this was a totally useless sortie on my part anyway after I missed horribly with my bombs, so it probably ended the way I deserved lol.
 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very exited about the new campaign. It's been a while.

 

cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thx Kathon for info.

I think the Problem for the Pe2 its not only the Gunner, the DM its in my eyes a Problem too,but this its not a TAW Problem.

Yesterday we also had a problem with invisible aircraft. Here's the post...
 
 
if u see that or have a Video help to kill this Bug
Edited by JG4_Widukind
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

It also must be said that this was a totally useless sortie on my part anyway after I missed horribly with my bombs, so it probably ended the way I deserved lol.

 

As you were being attacked by no less than 4 Me's, one of them a 110, I doubt it would have mattered if you had taken out a bridge, 2 hangars, a fuel depot, 6 PzIV's, 3 StugIII's and a motorcycle for good luck :)

 

Out of interest at what height did you bail out? Was your pilot killed by hitting the ground too fast or was it a chute shoot?

 

I was shot down and killed by 3 109E's in my Pe-2 a few days ago, the first guy was just sitting on my six to the point where my AI turret gunner forced him to bail, he came very close to being killed by my AI gunner after that :) The other two guys were more persuasive and although I was utterly shot up and looking for a spot to make an emergency landing, they never let go of me. Not sure why, I was well behind enemy lines and would most probably have been captured had I survived the crash...I couldn't bail as I was way too low. I don't even bother following shot up AI to the ground like that, but it seems to be a popular sport with many.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=5964&name=Pict

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

As you were being attacked by no less than 4 Me's, one of them a 110, I doubt it would have mattered if you had taken out a bridge, 2 hangars, a fuel depot, 6 PzIV's, 3 StugIII's and a motorcycle for good luck :)

 

Out of interest at what height did you bail out? Was your pilot killed by hitting the ground too fast or was it a chute shoot?

 

I was shot down and killed by 3 109E's in my Pe-2 a few days ago, the first guy was just sitting on my six to the point where my AI turret gunner forced him to bail, he came very close to being killed by my AI gunner after that :) The other two guys were more persuasive and although I was utterly shot up and looking for a spot to make an emergency landing, they never let go of me. Not sure why, I was well behind enemy lines and would most probably have been captured had I survived the crash...I couldn't bail as I was way too low. I don't even bother following shot up AI to the ground like that, but it seems to be a popular sport with many.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=5964&name=Pict

I think my big issue is that I'm hitting things that are already dead and not realizing it. I saw good bomb hits and secondary fires on the target but got no GK, and the log only shows damage to a few vehicles. There was no AA left so the target was probably already really worked over and I just didn't hit what was left. 

I was very low over the trees. My pilot was killed from hitting the ground, I was trying to get high enough to bail safely but couldn't with only one engine while on fire. other times I bailed out I had a glitch where my chute was invisible. Saved me from chute-killers maybe, I don't know.

The 109Es have the toughest job of the axis fighters against Pe-2s IMO. Not much in the way of cannon ammo and only light MGs. Once you're out of cannon rounds the LMGs aren't much good for catastrophic kills. The soviet LMGs at least have the extremely high rate of fire that allows you to put a lot of lead on target.

The best thing to do would be to pepper the engines with the MGs, and once you see smoke, break off. If the 109 had done that to me last night he would have lived and I still would not have made it back to base. Even better, run as a hunter-killer pair with a 110, with the 109E flying cover to take on the fighters while the 110 uses its heavier armament to engage the Pe-2s at long range. Although with the planeset we have at the moment the 110 is an extremely effective fighter against what the soviets can field. The MiG-3 will change that a bit. 

Anyway its clearly possible to hang around the tail gunners for extended periods and not get insta-sniped. Based on my gunner's behaviour last night I would believe they were novice level. Maybe the setting is not being applied consistently, or maybe the novice setting just has a higher chance of the insane one in a million shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

The 109Es have the toughest job of the axis fighters against Pe-2s IMO

 

I'd say it comes down to the pilot, for both attack technique and gunnery accuracy. Have a look at that TAW sortie I posted above.

 

1st guy does little damage to me and gets shot to bits by my AI gunner. Why?, because he's just sitting on my 6 shooting at my smallest and most armored profile, while looking down the barrels of my AI gunners.

 

2nd and 3rd guys receive zero damage from my AI gunners, but both of them hit me harder that the 1st guy, with the 3rd guy hitting me over 40% on two occasions, the last one seeing me shot down. Why?, because both of them used proper attack technique, minimizing my AI gunners opportunity to hit them and their shots were on target especially the 3rd guy.

 

After flying 100's of hours in the Pe-2 and being attacked very often, shot down almost as often and having racked up many AI gunner kills, almost always when the attacker is sitting on my rear end. I feel comfortable in saying that the people complaining about the Pe-2 are not worth their salt in a bomber intercept scenario.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

I'd say it comes down to the pilot, for both attack technique and gunnery accuracy.

 

Nope. It does not. You can attack a bomber from left to right at 800kph. The gunners give no fuck. If we could finally bury that discussion (tHAt ThE aPPRoAch is WrOng), that'd be great.

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

I'd say it comes down to the pilot, for both attack technique and gunnery accuracy. Have a look at that TAW sortie I posted above.

 

1st guy does little damage to me and gets shot to bits by my AI gunner. Why?, because he's just sitting on my 6 shooting at my smallest and most armored profile, while looking down the barrels of my AI gunners.

 

2nd and 3rd guys receive zero damage from my AI gunners, but both of them hit me harder that the 1st guy, with the 3rd guy hitting me over 40% on two occasions, the last one seeing me shot down. Why?, because both of them used proper attack technique, minimizing my AI gunners opportunity to hit them and their shots were on target especially the 3rd guy.

 

After flying 100's of hours in the Pe-2 and being attacked very often, shot down almost as often and having racked up many AI gunner kills, almost always when the attacker is sitting on my rear end. I feel comfortable in saying that the people complaining about the Pe-2 are not worth their salt in a bomber intercept scenario.

I agree the 109Es can make better attacks. But because they're slower and in many cases more lightly armed than the other axis fighters, they have less leeway to make a mistake. They're more likely to have to make multiple passes to do critical damage, and they need more altitude to achieve the same speed in a diving attack. it makes their job harder and guys used to 109F's or Gs can miscalculate.

 

5 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

Nope. It does not. You can attack a bomber from left to right at 800kph. The gunners give no fuck. If we could finally bury that discussion (tHAt ThE aPPRoAch is WrOng), that'd be great.

This is true, but its inconsistent. I've made some truly stupid dead-six clinger attacks on bombers with rear gunners and gotten away with it, and on other occasions have made an attack with a nearly impossible angle and got sniped when I entered the gunner's FOV for half a second. This is true across all the servers I've played on and in SP too.
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

current tactical map #1:

blue tank column in 1215 8 did not render or not properly placed.. despite me searching the entire road between the two townlets twice (and losing an airframe an a life in the process)

 

multiple runs on northern blue trains, where train was strafed with 20mills, mgs and bombs (100-250kg) - while train plattforms and opel trucks get destroyed, train does not take a single percent of damage - exemplary sortie:
http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=9754&name=[_FLAPS_]RogoRogo
4x250kg bombs dropped directly on the train (impact and bomb explosion observed), direct hits - no damage on the train in statistics, no visible damage or fires on train (and another airframe lost). The only 2 wagons that took damage were the same 2 that took damage on other sorties when I strafed the entire lenght of the train or dropped bombs.

 

Edited by [_FLAPS_]RogoRogo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

If we could finally bury that discussion

 

While I appreciate that this whole escapade is somewhat of a burning issue for you, swearing about it only lowers the tone of the conversation and the angle your coming from.

 

Could be your using the wrong approach to burying it. For my part I just state what I see and what I see is backed up by the log, no Frankensteinesque resurrection skills involved :) 

 

Did you look at my log above, where I'm in a Pe-2 that is attacked by 3 109E's, 1 gets shot down by my AI, one shoots me up and receives zero damage himself and the other shoots me down without receiving any damage whatsoever from my AI gunner?

 

How do you square it with the theory that the Pe-2 is hard to shoot down and the Pe-2 AI gunners are super dangerous?

 

1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

You can attack a bomber from left to right at 800kph. The gunners give no...

 

Nor should they give a...as it is their task to shoot you. I have run many bomber attack scenarios, it's my favorite thing to do in IL-2, and there is no approach that guarantees you not to get shot, not even head on which I reckon is the least efficient anyhow.

 

When you fly past a machine-gun you always have a chance of being hit.

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

 

How do you square it with the theory that the Pe-2 is hard to shoot down and the Pe-2 AI gunners are super dangerous?


Sheriff's videos speak for themselves here. He makes what most would call picture perfect approaches on bombers and on occasion takes truly unbelievable hits. Pe-2s, 110s, its not biased. Notice he said bomber gunners, not Pe-2 gunners.
 
He's correct that there's a problem with bomber gunners making impossible shots and from what I can tell  the likelihood of these shots is almost completely random. But a lot of people use that issue to excuse terrible tactics, and then you have our problem where our gunners are totally useless until they have to make that one impossible shot that gets caught on video.

The gunners need some work so that bomber pilots can have a reasonably consistent defensive ability without the unrealistic snapshots that happen sometimes.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally think it's something that has to do with ping delay and might not be fixable client side.  I've tried many times to reproduce these types of shots using AI bombers on Ace mode in QMB without success.  I've seen quite a few shots that looked highly unlikely, but not impossible and still feasible.  

 

On the other hand, in multiplayer, I've seen planes shoot straight down through their own tail without issue, gunners score hits well beyond the gun mount's traverse range, gunners that shoot and hit even though there's no way a real person could react that fast, gunners that definitely hit the tail section but kill the engine, gunners that cause my plane to explode like their firing battleship artillery at me, etc.  

Some of these issues are based on the fact that even though you've made the right moves from your point of view, the overall ping average between yourself and the other plane sometimes says you've gone into the "window" the gunner needs to hit you.  

 

There might be ways to "normalize" the netcode and tighten tolerances by tiny increments, but until we have a 100% fiber network worldwide, this might not go away all that easily.  

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Sheriff's videos speak for themselves here

 

I'm sure they do...do they swear too :)

 

Joking aside if your going to make a serious claim about a bug to a software developer, the developer will want you to provide a situation that is repeatable, that is the normal MO of software developers. That said I have yet to see anyone provide this.

 

As far as the speed you are travelling at and the picture perfectness of your approach, it makes little difference if you are within range & someone is tracking you with a machine-gun. The only difference between a target crossing you at 300 kph and a target crossing you at 800 kph is that the faster target is slightly more difficult to track and therefore give enough lead to get the rounds on target.

 

I have no idea how the developer programs the AI gunners into the game, but in reality using an attack approach that forces the gunners to track you simply makes you more difficult to hit, it doesn't make you an impossible target. Conversely, if you just sit there and follow the bomber, you are an easy target and have a much higher chance of being hit. It's not rocket science.

 

Ultimately it's a difficult thing identify, as you would need to repeat the same scenario many, many times to get any usable data and then do it all again with other scenarios. One or two videos showing one or two "impossible" results may well stand out in the ocean of unseen bomber intercepts that are carried out as you can replay a video over and over again.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

all gunners are on low level ? nice to know .

 No, I was writing about Pe2 gunners. 

 

I double checked settings and it's:

80%/20%/0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for Pe2 

 

50%/50%0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for others

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

 No, I was writing about Pe2 gunners. 

 

I double checked settings and it's:

80%/20%/0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for Pe2 

 

50%/50%0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for others

 

 

bias, JU 87 is more dangerous than pe2 if flown correctly :^) 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thx kathon for claryfy.

 

Is just my opinion... but i think blues no "need" more or less help than reds. And  settings for all gunners must be the same.  Basically beacuse the joke about gunners is aplicable for all of them.... the only diference i can apreciate... is only one side is constantly complain about the same thing. 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Is just my opinion... 

 

Dear Kathon,

 

please just set 100% "ace level" for all gunners. We do not need these dynamic settings here for that component of the gameplay.

Edited by Norz
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I the case for the gunners, both sides don´t need help or a difference on the set for the gunners. 

There is not correct, unbalance the game for the setting on the gunners is not correct. On both sides gunners are terrible on ACE setting.

As an example of my words I attach this mission, one Stuka gunner kill me at once in less than 2 sec when I pass at 45° @ 500km/h  from bottom to up.

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=1052&name=666GIAP_Necathor

 

Thank you for your support and effort LG team, please set gunners all as same setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russia only gets 2/3 I-16's.
Germany gets 3/3 E-7's.

 

How is this still a thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Y-29.Silky said:

Russia only gets 2/3 I-16's.
Germany gets 3/3 E-7's.

 

How is this still a thing?

 

They are both the same 3/3 - I guess a simple mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

 No, I was writing about Pe2 gunners. 

 

I double checked settings and it's:

80%/20%/0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for Pe2 

 

50%/50%0%/0% low/normal/high/ace for others

 

Really?  Hmm I’m surprised.  There have been a lot of complaints about gunners’ abilities (mostly are vocal about Pe-2 gunners, but I say Ju-88 gunners and other bomber/attack aircraft gunners are just as effective).  However, without some sort of controlled tests, complaints can be very subjective (gunners “seem” too effective, etc, plus network/latency issues could contribute), and shouldn’t necessarily dictate that certain bomber gunners’ experience settings should be reduced when other types are not.

 

As has been shown with statistics from prior TAW rounds regarding the number of sorties by aircraft type, there are usually many more Pe-2’s flown during TAW as compared to Ju-88’s and He-111’s.  Thus it is logical that there will be more complaints on the German side about Pe-2 gunners, than complaints on the Russian side about Ju-88/He-111 gunners.  However, that doesn’t necessarily mean the Pe-2 gunners are over performing more than the Ju-88/He-111, it’s just that there are more complaints due to more interactions of German fighters to Pe-2’s than Russian fighters to Ju-88’s/He-111’s.

 

I for one would recommend that gunner experience settings should be the same for all bomber/attack aircraft.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's only fair - set all gunners to the same "Normal" settings and call it a day.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The complaints about gunner accuracy is due to E7's fragility (and general 109 fragility), P-40/I-16 can eat a stream of bullets and come out fine on the other side. 

 

109 was light, because of that, it had small margins of stuff leaking out and still working. Shooting 109 water rads is usually a downed 109.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

The complaints about gunner accuracy is due to E7's fragility (and general 109 fragility), P-40/I-16 can eat a stream of bullets and come out fine on the other side. 

 

109 was light, because of that, it had small margins of stuff leaking out and still working. Shooting 109 water rads is usually a downed 109.

 

 

Negative that dude! The complaints come from:

  1. Watching a 2 hr documentary about B-17 missions over Europe and 1st hand accounts from gunners expressing verbally how hard it was to hit attacking fighters.
  • Considering the B-17 was a much more stable gun platform than any ground attack aircraft we currently have in the game.
  • Currently, Pe-2s gunners especially maintain a high degree of accuracy even during high-G maneuvers.

This issue IMHO stems from the code doesn't account for the platform vibration and stability not throwing off their aim once a target has been acquired and in range.

I think their dispersion of fire needs to be more.

 

Cpt_Siddy, I think your perspective might be a tad clouded. Besides, how can so many be wrong? This isn't Copernicus's heliocentric theory!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Negative that dude! The complaints come from:

  1.  Watching a 2 hr documentary about B-17 missions over Europe and 1st hand accounts from gunners expressing verbally how hard it was to hit attacking fighters.
  • Considering the B-17 was a much more stable gun platform than any ground attack aircraft we currently have in the game.
  • Currently, Pe-2s gunners especially maintain a high degree of accuracy even during high-G maneuvers.

This issue IMHO stems from the code doesn't account for the platform vibration and stability not throwing off their aim once a target has been acquired and in range.

I think their dispersion of fire needs to be more.

 

Cpt_Siddy, I think your perspective might be a tad clouded. Besides, how can so many be wrong? This isn't Copernicus's heliocentric theory!

 

 

Dude, i am not talking about "muh historical accuracy", i got a an inkling of why a RNG fire solution generator algorithm for a gunner might be a problem.

 

The thing is, it is same for both sides, and both sides get their planes molested by back gunner at same rate. Yes, the JU-87 back gunner hits planes as often (if not more) as PE-2 back gunner.

 

So if both sides get similarly chewed up by gunners, the difference in absolute whining must come from somewhere else, like the fact that 109 don't like taking any damage to engine or coolant systems, at all. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Dude, i am not talking about "muh historical accuracy", i got a an inkling of why a RNG fire solution generator algorithm for a gunner might be a problem.

 

The thing is, it is same for both sides, and both sides get their planes molested by back gunner at same rate. Yes, the JU-87 back gunner hits planes as often (if not more) as PE-2 back gunner.

 

So if both sides get similarly chewed up by gunners, the difference in absolute whining must come from somewhere else, like the fact that 109 don't like taking any damage to engine or coolant systems, at all. 

 

I fully agree you have the right to your opinion - but your suggestion that we are complaining because of the fragility of the 109 against bombers is incorrect.

 

What we are whining about the hyper accuracy of gunners period - which is irrespective of the aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The experiences of B-17 gunners might not be all that good a reference point to compare accuracy of the bombers we have. 

 

Both the German and Russian gunner-equipped planes in this game had machine guns that put out a significantly higher rate of fire than the good ol' .50 cal.   Granted, the .50 was a harder hitter, but the amount of bullets per square meter spread along the firing trajectory would have been a good bit less. If I'm not mistaken, the .50's bullet velocity was a bit slower too.  While it does a great job - in it's 'single barrel' configuration - blanket-spraying positions in infantry combat, in the air, not so much.  Both the German and Russian guns take the win over the .50 in the "spray and pray" category and when bad tactics come into play, an attacker is much more likely to get perforated.

 

That's not to say that there aren't any instances of the absolutely correct tactics getting randomly punished, but that I'm convinced has to do with internet stuff outside the devs control.

Well, that and sometimes luck sucks - as is the nature of war.

 

I'm still going to chalk it up to bad tactics and/or the "ping gods" being angry.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

I fully agree you have the right to your opinion - but your suggestion that we are complaining because of the fragility of the 109 against bombers is incorrect.

 

What we are whining about the hyper accuracy of gunners period - which is irrespective of the aircraft.

 

I know that you are whining about the accuracy, but its not the accuracy really, it is the ability to apply that accuracy in odd places.

 

In general, when i have approached AI gunners, they dont hit that often, but when they do hit, it is because the Accuracy RNG algorithm has keyed in the perfect lead compensation fire solution. And that solution with 0% error RNG:eed in, will hit you even if you are flying 800KPH, flying tangential trajectory. This is also reason why 262 pilots will hate peshkas with all their hearth. 

The only defense against this is having a constantly some large enough delta in your vector, relative velocity or preferably both. Irony is, the faster you fly, the harder it is to do either one of those. 

The Pe-2 is hated because it can fly fast on deck, removing a good portion of space to work with. Flying fast on the deck makes change in relative velocity hard, too and it can take a hit or two before going down, meaning you have to have long time on target. 

 

But all of this is true for JU-88 and 110, and many of times i have lost engine or got pilot sniped by either one of their back gunners. 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...