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Tactical Air War

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30 minutes ago, =IS=Rammzess said:

There are no maps with a "blue" territory in the game. Where is the balance?

I think we should wait for the ОBP map. It's a blue map.

 

33 minutes ago, =IS=Rammzess said:

Pilots returning from enemy territory were first questioned and investigated, and not sent back on a combat mission. Could be shot for treason. Where is historicism?

Read the memoir, if the pilot was not injured, he quickly returned to action

34 minutes ago, =IS=Rammzess said:


If we have a balance of pilots, then there must be a balance of captivity!

What balance of pilots are you talking about? Right now, the Reds have more pilots. And on the first map of the pilots there were more blue. As well as planes and tanks. Maybe give everyone the same planes for balance

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

I think we should wait for the ОBP map. It's a blue map.

 

In this case the blues are only partly over their own territory and mostly over either occupied (and in the course of being liberated) territory or territory they have occupied.

 

So it's not really a totally blue map.

 

I'd say the chances of a blue pilot getting captured or even shot by his captors on most of the "OBP" map were just as high as on the eastern front maps we already have. No need to change anything :) 

 

That would change on a Berlin map, depending how far east it goes :) .

Edited by Pict
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7 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

In this case the blues are only partly over their own territory and mostly over either occupied (and in the course of being liberated) territory or territory they have occupied.

 

So it's not really a totally blue map.

 

I'd say the chances of a blue pilot getting captured or even shot by his captors on most of the "OBP" map were just as high as on the eastern front maps we already have. No need to change anything :) 

 

That would change on a Berlin map, depending how far east it goes :) .

Allied pilots got help from people in Occupied France and the low countries quite often, though it took them months to get back to friendly territory. The Germans might have gotten that too, considering the likely reprisals if something happened to a pilot that fell over occupied territory. I don't know much of that side of things.

It should probably just be the same for both sides though, it's not currently affecting the outcome of the maps much and its really just determining if people can keep their streaks or not. I have no dog in that fight, the only streaks I get are the streaks of oil, gas and fire I leave on the landscape.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Allied pilots got help from people in Occupied France and the low countries quite often, though it took them months to get back to friendly territory.

 

While this is true of a pre-allied landing scenario when downed allied airmen were stuck on the continent and need to get to Switzerland or find a way across the channel.

 

On the "OBP" map "Occupied France" was no longer occupied, we are into 1945 with the reduced occupied area that that entails, so allied pilots didn't have far to go, nor did they have a sea to cross to get back to their own side of the lines.

 

Furthermore, in 1945, in the ever decreasing occupied area, helping the allies was in more peoples interest than it was before the allied landings, in an "out with the old and in with the new" fashion :) 

 

As far as I see it, Luftwaffe pilots had it hard in every theater other than over Germany itself as they were the invaders. If people want historically correct 30mm cannons and so on, they need to accept historically correct chances of survival. If they can't handle the heat like the real Luftwaffe pilots did....then they fly with the allies ;)

Edited by Pict
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Thx rammsses , thats the thing i was read.Thx . This percentages are result of balance action. I think no need more balance.

At beginin i think was 33% reds and 50% blues.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Pict said:

 

As far as I see it, Luftwaffe pilots had it hard in every theater other than over Germany itself as they were the invaders. If people want historically correct 30mm cannons and so on, they need to accept historically correct chances of survival. If they can't handle the heat like the real Luftwaffe pilots did....then they fly with the allies ;)

 

Yes. While we're at historical accuracy, we should also consider that the FW190A3 entered service before the Bf109G2 and was deployed earlier. It should enter in Map#4, together with the La-5, not in a later map.

 

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Wer A sagt, muss auch B sagen.

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Yo, this lives system has to go. 

It's not fun. I haven't even died but I can't fly with people because they are too annoyed with this system. This is unrealistic, it's not we can bring in replacements. 

 

Expecially with the glitch with the rear gunners,  trying to do your job and defend the line is now a suicide mission.

 

Do this, make 3 lives for fighters. Once you lose those you are demoted to fly bombers or attackers for a match or something. Then 1 life back. 

 

The problem with the TAW has always been the low player base. Why add to that problem by kicking people for just trying to fly. 

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1 minute ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

Yes. While we're at historical accuracy, we should also consider that the FW190A3 entered service before the Bf109G2 and was deployed earlier. It should enter in Map#4, together with the La-5, not in a later map.

 

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Wer A sagt, muss auch B sagen.

I like this idea, IMO the FW-190 and the La-5 are a good match-up. As long as its a 0/1 plane like the La-5 and each side has the same amount of fighter craft I think it would work well.

2 minutes ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Yo, this lives system has to go. 

It's not fun. I haven't even died but I can't fly with people because they are too annoyed with this system. This is unrealistic, it's not we can bring in replacements. 

 

Expecially with the glitch with the rear gunners,  trying to do your job and defend the line is now a suicide mission.

 

Do this, make 3 lives for fighters. Once you lose those you are demoted to fly bombers or attackers for a match or something. Then 1 life back. 

 

The problem with the TAW has always been the low player base. Why add to that problem by kicking people for just trying to fly. 

You had me until "demoted to fly bombers or attackers" - without people flying bombers and attackers TAW would just be Berloga with a larger map. Its not a demotion to fly aircraft that actually impact the ground war.

If we're going to do away with the lives system we should just do away with it entirely, and find some other way to discourage suicide attacks, not have some weird dual system that will make things even more complicated.



 

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1 hour ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Yo, this lives system has to go. It's not fun. I haven't even died but I can't fly with people because they are too annoyed with this system. This is unrealistic, it's not we can bring in replacements. Expecially with the glitch with the rear gunners,  trying to do your job and defend the line is now a suicide mission. Do this, make 3 lives for fighters. Once you lose those you are demoted to fly bombers or attackers for a match or something. Then 1 life back. The problem with the TAW has always been the low player base. Why add to that problem by kicking people for just trying to fly. 

 

Yo!  Please do NOT remove the life system because this is one important factor that makes TAW much more realistic than other servers.  Part of the great fun of TAW is to change your flying behavior to minimize the risk of death which creates a more realistic combat environment.  After all, in real life you only have ONE life.  You might want to coach your squadmates, Fenderbird, on how to fly less recklessly and value their lives.  Seriously, think about the significant qualitative differences between the of type of air combat that occurs on TAW versus a server like WoL.

 

I won't even comment on on your low opinion of bomber pilots--maybe you did not intend to insult here.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Yo, this lives system has to go. 

It's not fun. I haven't even died but I can't fly with people because they are too annoyed with this system. This is unrealistic, it's not we can bring in replacements. 

 

Expecially with the glitch with the rear gunners,  trying to do your job and defend the line is now a suicide mission.

 

Do this, make 3 lives for fighters. Once you lose those you are demoted to fly bombers or attackers for a match or something. Then 1 life back. 

 

The problem with the TAW has always been the low player base. Why add to that problem by kicking people for just trying to fly. 

 

 

Respectfully disagree!

 

The lives system forces a higher stakes style of game-play for the event. Gotta keep in mind the fact that it is an Event and not a constant server.

 

Also I resent the "demoted to bombers" comment - as @RedKestrel pointed out, the mud movers actually affect the outcome of the war. What is the use of air supremacy if you're not affecting the outcome of the ground war?

Edited by [_FLAPS_]Dirt_Merchant
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Posted (edited)

Main question I ask is what about the lives system makes the server more fun for yall, vs not having it.

 

It's not like we have a mass of reserve pilots to pull from like real life. It's just us. As we drop off then there are no pilot's in the sky which isn't real at all. Too many pilots are now flying ultra conservative to keep themselves alive vs actually fighting and hitting objectives. I just see everything trending towards a sterile meta of cheeky tactics where no body fights nobody,  and no body dies.

 

Demoted isn't meant as derogitory, I bomb my fair share but being moved to large bombers would accomplish the same task as stopping the suicide attackers that get 3 stuckas to crash and eat up plane reserves.

 

At the end of the day, I just want to fly man, not wait to fly.

Edited by =AVG77=Fenderbird

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30 minutes ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Main question I ask is what about the lives system makes the server more fun for yall, vs not having it.

 

It's not like we have a mass of reserve pilots to pull from like real life. It's just us. As we drop off then there are no pilot's in the sky which isn't real at all. Too many pilots are now flying ultra conservative to keep themselves alive vs actually fighting and hitting objectives. I just see everything trending towards a sterile meta of cheeky tactics where no body fights nobody,  and no body dies.

 

Demoted isn't meant as derogitory, I bomb my fair share but being moved to large bombers would accomplish the same task as stopping the suicide attackers that get 3 stuckas to crash and eat up plane reserves.

 

At the end of the day, I just want to fly man, not wait to fly.


I appreciate that you may not have meant to deride attack pilots/aircraft but the word demoted means to be put down a notch, so its kind of implied by the word choice. Regardless, I don't see how having limited fighter lives  but unlimited bomber/attacker lives solves the issue of unrealistic high-risk attacks.

The 'Combat Mission' system and the lives system are designed to encourage pilots to behave more like real pilots - i.e. prioritize targets, tactics, and flight plans that will get them back to base alive. So far from what I've seen there's no shortage of combat on TAW, lives system or no lives system. Certainly if people are running through all their lives in one night, its not like they're not taking risks. Targets are still getting hit, AA is getting attacked despite the (sometimes extreme) danger, and just a couple nights ago I was shot down twice in a row in a MiG in a low level furball with 3 enemy fighters - not low risk for me or my enemies, but we were still there, dueling over the tanks.

One thing that might be worth looking at is awarding an extra life per x amount of  successful CM as with the planes, up to a limit of 5 or 6. Everyone starts with 3 but you can get up to the max with successful missions. Give people a way to bank lives for successful missions. It might mitigate issues with people finding themselves unable to play. 

 
 

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Posted (edited)

 

26 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:


I appreciate that you may not have meant to deride attack pilots/aircraft but the word demoted means to be put down a notch, so its kind of implied by the word choice. Regardless, I don't see how having limited fighter lives  but unlimited bomber/attacker lives solves the issue of unrealistic high-risk attacks.

The 'Combat Mission' system and the lives system are designed to encourage pilots to behave more like real pilots - i.e. prioritize targets, tactics, and flight plans that will get them back to base alive. So far from what I've seen there's no shortage of combat on TAW, lives system or no lives system. Certainly if people are running through all their lives in one night, its not like they're not taking risks. Targets are still getting hit, AA is getting attacked despite the (sometimes extreme) danger, and just a couple nights ago I was shot down twice in a row in a MiG in a low level furball with 3 enemy fighters - not low risk for me or my enemies, but we were still there, dueling over the tanks.

One thing that might be worth looking at is awarding an extra life per x amount of  successful CM as with the planes, up to a limit of 5 or 6. Everyone starts with 3 but you can get up to the max with successful missions. Give people a way to bank lives for successful missions. It might mitigate issues with people finding themselves unable to play. 

 
 

I can get behind this 100 percent.

 

And when we run out of lives maybe you should only be able to fly transport and po2 so you cab build up combat missions. 

Edited by =AVG77=Fenderbird

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2 minutes ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

I can get behind this 100 percent.

 

Any ideas on how to implement?

 

Say a 5 combat mission to add a life back. 

If I had to say pick a number, I would just say you get a life whenever you get a plane.  

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5 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

Yes. While we're at historical accuracy, we should also consider that the FW190A3 entered service before the Bf109G2 and was deployed earlier. It should enter in Map#4, together with the La-5, not in a later map.

 

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Wer A sagt, muss auch B sagen.

 

I'm all for it if it's closer to what really happened.

 

We can do without the Thubnderbolt in the Kuban too, bring in the MiG-3 as it really was there and many, many more things like this.

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10 hours ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Yo, this lives system has to go. 

It's not fun. I haven't even died but I can't fly with people because they are too annoyed with this system. This is unrealistic, it's not we can bring in replacements. 

 

Expecially with the glitch with the rear gunners,  trying to do your job and defend the line is now a suicide mission.

 

Do this, make 3 lives for fighters. Once you lose those you are demoted to fly bombers or attackers for a match or something. Then 1 life back. 

 

The problem with the TAW has always been the low player base. Why add to that problem by kicking people for just trying to fly. 


The life system is one of the big reasons why I eagerly anticipate each TAW campaign. It's the life system that makes that stress I feel with a bandit on my tail so much more palpable than it is on any other server I've played on. 

Frankly, the amount of constant whinging I've been seeing here and elsewhere is disheartening. I've been having a blast...deaths and all. 

Y'all gotta learn not to look a gift horse in the mouth. 😘

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11 часов назад, RedKestrel сказал:

If I had to say pick a number, I would just say you get a life whenever you get a plane.  

 

Blue team lose approximately 1 pilot per 2 lost planes, red side lose 1 pilot per 3 planes. So in my thoughts pilot’s life cost is equal to 2.5 planes cost. 1 plane = 3 CM, now we can calculate pilot’s life cost as 3CM x 2.5planes = 7.5CM. 

I think 7-8 CM to add 1 life is a fair price.

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20 minutes ago, WG_Magners said:

Blue team lose approximately 1 pilot per 2 lost planes, red side lose 1 pilot per 3 planes.

Where did you get these numbers?

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12 минут назад, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 сказал:

Where did you get these numbers?

 

I see it in statistics. It is quite usual thing that blue team has more pilots losses, but it doesn’t matter. We just need to take the average value, admins should know it better.

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39 minutes ago, WG_Magners said:

 

I see it in statistics. It is quite usual thing that blue team has more pilots losses, but it doesn’t matter. We just need to take the average value, admins should know it better.

Statistics do not show a real picture of downed planes. There are also counted and static airplanes at airfields, which in this war are destroyed in large quantities

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Hi, how fast do the lives replenish? 

I somehow managed to have 1.39 life left. :biggrin:

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4 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

 

Blue team lose approximately 1 pilot per 2 lost planes, red side lose 1 pilot per 3 planes. So in my thoughts pilot’s life cost is equal to 2.5 planes cost. 1 plane = 3 CM, now we can calculate pilot’s life cost as 3CM x 2.5planes = 7.5CM. 

I think 7-8 CM to add 1 life is a fair price.


If I look at my own statistics, I see that I have 16 CM over the course of 33 sorties. Of those sorties, 13 have ended in a successful landing, 5 ended in flight, 5 ended in ditching (on or off the airfield), and 6 ended in bailing out. I've died 7 times and lost 16 aircraft. So my ratio is pretty close to the average, with a little bit higher mortality rate.If we implemented this system I'd have 2 extra lives over the course of TAW so far.

My deaths have been spread out enough that I was never really unable to play before the map rolled and I got new lives. Someone who played a lot more than I did, or who had more successful sorties, would probably have a few extra lives. The downside of course is that this system isn't going to help people who run out of lives very quickly and are then unable to play with these kind of numbers..

And just to throw a wrench in the works, I suppose you could have a system where every CM gets you a fraction of a life. I have 2.67 lives right now. I don't really understand why that is, but obviously fractional lives are possible so maybe .25 lives/CM? I don't really know.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical. Maybe something like this can be implemented in the next campaign if LG thinks its worth it and won't change the way things work negatively. There would have to be some analysis afterwards to see how the math should actually work out.

Is there a way to aggregate and extract the player statistics for the campaign in some way? So that we could see plane and pilot losses separate from static plane destruction, and look at effective rates of capture and death/sortie? I'd be interested in crunching the numbers.

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3 часа назад, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 сказал:

Statistics do not show a real picture of downed planes. There are also counted and static airplanes at airfields, which in this war are destroyed in large quantities

 

Ok, numbers can be different but you get the idea

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I like the system in 3 lives, it makes me fly neatly. But still I got 20 hours of penalties on one maps. It was very useful, because it allowed me to take a break from the game and do other things

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Greetings from UK

I have just registered, and cant see the TS Password in the mission description. Could some kind virpil point the way. I am a reasonable gunner but poor pilot at present btw.

😀

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9 minutes ago, J5_Spyboy said:

Greetings from UK

I have just registered, and cant see the TS Password in the mission description. Could some kind virpil point the way. I am a reasonable gunner but poor pilot at present btw.

😀

Its in the mission briefing description on the map, when you are choosing an airfield and plane to fly. 

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3 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I don't really understand why that is, but obviously fractional lives are possible so maybe .25 lives/CM? I don't really know.


I believe it has to do with the number of players on each side. If your side is outnumbered when you die you lose a certain fraction of a life (depending on how outnumbered your side is) rather than one full life. 

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I read the manual, but not this entire thread. Nothing in the manual as far as I have seen about it, so, what happens if I die? I could only find that one gets -300 experience. Is that all? Would be cheap ...

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14 minutes ago, =RainDogs=Quimbymouse said:


I believe it has to do with the number of players on each side. If your side is outnumbered when you die you lose a certain fraction of a life (depending on how outnumbered your side is) rather than one full life. 

Ah, I see, I think I remember that being discussed. I think most times I've been on I've been outnumbered more or less.

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I think that if you lose all three lives, instead of being blocked from flying for 24 hours or whatever it is. You should only be allowed to fly transports until you have successfully completed say 10 transport missions.

 

This would kill 3 birds with one stone;

 

1. There would be more targets for fighters.

2. More airfields would be supplied by air.

3. People wouldn't be blocked, which causes a fair bit of frustration for some of the less fortunate or less gifted pilots. The latter who need stick time more than being blocked.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Pict said:

I think that if you lose all three lives, instead of being blocked from flying for 24 hours or whatever it is. You should only be allowed to fly transports until you have successfully completed say 10 transport missions.

 

This would kill 3 birds with one stone;

 

1. There would be more targets for fighters.

2. More airfields would be supplied by air.

3. People wouldn't be blocked, which causes a fair bit of frustration for some of the less fortunate or less gifted pilots. The latter who need stick time more than being blocked.

Honestly, I would rather be blocked for 24 hours than have to fly 10 transport missions in a row. 

Edited by RedKestrel
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Posted (edited)

If i die and have only one life i will be kicked for 20 hrs? I mean if i die by normal ways. I bail out but too low after being shotdown by a fighter, got a 20 hrs penalty.

 

Edited by =BLW=Tales
Completing.

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3 hours ago, =BLW=Tales said:

If i die and have only one life i will be kicked for 20 hrs? I mean if i die by normal ways. I bail out but too low after being shotdown by a fighter, got a 20 hrs penalty.

 

 

It depends on the server balance but, if you are on the outnumbering side when you die and only 1 life left, you will reach 0 lives and be banned for 20hs. After the ban experies, you automatically receive 1 life.

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I have another question: Please forgive me if it is a result of not properly reading the correct procedure. I joined yesterday and chose to rear gun for a PE2, twice, each time I had just settled into the seat when a server message advising that I should exit or be kicked from the position. As I hadn't had time to buckle up my chute being kicked wasn't an option so I exited the position. Could some knowing virpil tell me why this happened?

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1 hour ago, J5_Spyboy said:

I have another question: Please forgive me if it is a result of not properly reading the correct procedure. I joined yesterday and chose to rear gun for a PE2, twice, each time I had just settled into the seat when a server message advising that I should exit or be kicked from the position. As I hadn't had time to buckle up my chute being kicked wasn't an option so I exited the position. Could some knowing virpil tell me why this happened?

 

You cannot play as a gunner in this server.

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3 hours ago, Riksen said:

 

You cannot play as a gunner in this server.

I honestly thought it was because there isnt enough room in the back of a PE2 for a gunner given all the laser sighting, IR and firing solution computational equipment it clearly carries for its defensive guns...

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I'm really enjoying flying on TAW at the moment, so far I've not lost a life, this time round (flying red, high level bombing alone).  Where I struggle is to tell which enemy airfields have live targets on them, I've hit enemy airfields before and got no reward.  I don't fly that many sorties as mine normally last around an hour, but I'd like to make them count.  I apologise in advance for being a bit obtuse by the way, it's genetic.😀

Edited by remer

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5 minutes ago, remer said:

I've hit enemy airfields before and got no reward

 

Make sure the word "ATTACK" appears beside the enemy airfield on the server map.

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On 8/13/2019 at 9:04 PM, Letka_13/Kami- said:

I put together "Twilight Zone", first entry in TAW XIX Diaries. It captures various moments from several sorties that I and my fellow Letka pilots flew last sunday evening.

 

 

 

Nice video :good:

 

Interesting too, especially when you are often on the receiving end in a Pe-2. Those imaginary 20mm cannons on the Macchi 202 sure pack a punch for a weapon that was never there...when you can get them on target ;)

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