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Tactical Air War

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3 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

I honestly don't know what your deal is. You are either completely failing at comprehending the discussion or you are deliberately trying to push your agenda by obscuring the argumentation.

 

Let me be very clear. Nobody (as far as i know) suggested a radar function. In fact, i especially said that this is not what i have in mind. So stop pulling this out of thin air. 

 

Again you are trying to segregate Fighter Pilots from Bomber Pilots and you are accusing them for only flying for their kill streak without having any example or proof to speak of. Like i said to you before, we are all playing the same game. Fighter Pilots are not your enemy. Quite the contrary. The whole narrative of "fighter pilots are useless" is something certain individuals are trying to push without realizing that it is in fact hurting their agenda. 

 

You are trying to put yourself on a pedestal for being the true cause of deciding the campaign by saying that fighter pilots aren't influencing the campaign outcome. Yet, when people are arguing that this is indeed true and that fighters need a better chance to intercept enemy Bombers to prevent a Bomb drop i.e. having an impact on the campaign outcome, you are absolutely against it and ridiculing the idea. 

 

 

You aren't even trying to engage in a discussion on it. You are simply repeating your statements without even considering strong arguments against your views i.g. that it is absolutely ignorant to think that a outnumbered side can spare a significantly bigger group of players to defend a Depot. 

 

 

This is simply misleading. Your personal experience results out of less than 10 hours flown as a fighter which is very low considering that you have flown 173 sorties. On top of it you are talking about the last map, where the depots on your side (Blue of course) are less then 20km apart which makes it very easy to cover. Especially because you probably only had to defend one depot at the time. Its a obscured view that can't hold as an example for how the depot gameplay works. 

Hehe I didnt have any one particular in mind and i wasnt pulling any names and look who showed up.

There has to something to it if you are feeling so hurt ;)

 

I dont segregate fighter pilots form bomber ones, and the fighters, ast he bombers and attackers are friends.

 

I only segregate the whining, never satisfied and ever complaining ones form all others in fiutal hope that they will once grow up.

 

I find myself a rather medicore player, thats why i'm quoting sheriff who is a way way better shoot than i'm. I would quote also others if i knew ones who post TAW on Youtube.

If i quote my own experience is to show that in case of attacking bombers even medicore shot as i'm can easyly hit the attcking fighter if  the fighter comes form six o'clock (low,high,dead six no difference), so to show that complaining about ai gunners instead of changing ones attack pattens on bombers is just stupid .

 

In case of depots its same situation, even I on my 15 inch laptop screen with simple patrol pattern a can intercept with high chance the bombers prior their bombdrop, so it might be boring for some, but is easyly achivable

 

By the way i was flying those depot defence mission not only on last map but on most of the other maps and you have to add to fighter hours the attacker hours as the 110 is in taw terminology (and hours count) a strike not fighter plane (by the way when i fly red its around 50/50 for fighter/bomber flight time, on blue side more people fly fighters so for the sake of the team i fly more bomber missions (both level and dive bomb)). 

 

I also have the points/streaks etc deep in my back side and fly only for fun and my current team win (exactly in that order)

Edited by Carl_infar

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I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

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21 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

 

 

The AI is the same with it's tendency to either pull masterful trick shots or fall into a coma at the worst moments.  This can be tuned to tend more towards trick shots or comas, but will always contain some mixture of both.

 

If you want to complain about the calibre of the defensive weapons or their firing arcs, you should file a complaint with the Junkers and/or Petlyakov design bureaus.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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Doubt a He 111 or a Stuka OR a 110 will pull trickshots like a peshka, a person brought up that they are the same, and they can provide video evidence, which i would love to see

I don;t think i was complaining about calibers of any type of gunner, please don't throw words in my mouth :) 

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23 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

I just want to see video comparing the 2 sides gunners :)

 

Since you guys are so confident that the gunners are the same, why hasn't anyone made a video about it yet?

 

I dont think that AI isnt the same(in old game Pe-2 gunner was more accurate than gunners of other aircraft for very long time, but it was given the same parameters as other gunners later, and I dont think that is the case here) rather than people saying that a gunner with MG17 and limited arc and tail on the way is somehow the same thing as gunner with Berezin 12,7 mm, wide field of fire and nothing blocking the view. Ju 88 and Pe-2 both have top and bottom rear gunners, but there is massive gap in their effectiveness in being able to deter and damage attacking fighters. My money is on all those things together + the way the AI works stack together to produce the trickshot Vasili Zaitzev AI that will sometimes headshot a 109 speeding past and spending 5 ms at the edge of the firing arc.

 

But thats besides the point, Vya-23 or Ju 88 gunner or Pe-2 gunner, none have more than marginal effect on how easy it is to bomb depots and keep them damaged simply because bombers are difficult to intercept and the AAA can be killed and it stays dead. And then you destroy buildings one by one. Many people got as many as 50 gk per mission. I guess its easy when theres nobody to intercept and no light flak, and 100 % damage is reached quickly. Something should be done about that but without making life even harder for level bomber pilots.

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12 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Doubt a He 111 or a Stuka OR a 110 will pull trickshots like a peshka, a person brought up that they are the same, and they can provide video evidence, which i would love to see

I don;t think i was complaining about calibers of any type of gunner, please don't throw words in my mouth :) 

 

They'll pull trickshots within their firing arcs with the level of lethality afforded to them by their weapon.  How often all gunners pull the trick shot or go into a coma are the only things within the purview of the IL-2 devs or TAW administration to change.  The specifications and abilities of aircraft are not.

 

Either all gunners become somewhat more lobotomized or they become somewhat less.  That's all there is.

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IMHO the campaign should favor the VVS. They should have more planes than LW available for their pilots compared to the LW and even better positions in the map. I mean, cmon, they have shitty planes, almost always outnumbered in every campaign and the LW is the one invading their freaking country. I agree that LW only pilots do whine a lot ... Fly both sides and you will understand the struggle on the VVS side. I understand some want to make stuff more historical but this is simply impossible with what we have available. It is clear in every single server that the majority of players fly for the LW and saying that stacked teams do not affect gameplay is just nonsense. It is horrible fighting when it is like 40x10 and it ruins enjoyment. VVS might even pull off wins but there are several factors involved in that as many have pointed out before. The thing is, you as a LW pilot, should  be ashamed of urself for asking for balance when you are already on top. Every side has their pros and cons so learn how to use it. If it's so bad flying blue, go fly red then.

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Fly both sides and you will understand a lot more things.. And russians plane aren't bad, its just you can't disengage easily. I have a dream that one day this thread will be filled with constructive comments and clean of all whiners and self righteous folks. (pls don't consider my comment self righteous though :(( )

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18 minutes ago, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

 And russians plane aren't bad, its just you can't disengage easily. 

 

 

Biggest killers of Axis pilots are Axis pilots mistakes. 

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8 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

I am not intending to do some sort of gatekeeping here and every opinion should be valued but sometimes it makes sense to get more experience before jumping into complex gameplay discussions. I think this was your first TAW campaign?

 

Right then, I'm off.  I'll leave it to the experts. They apparently have their It's-Futility-Fu trained to over 9,000.  

 

And BTW. I was pointing out that Pe-2 and Ju-88 had very similar gaps in their gunner coverage at the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions so it's ideal to attack them there instead of from behind. Somehow that got turned into a who has better guns and AI gunners argument which was not the intent.  But hey, I'm just a stoopid newb.  I realize that now.  I'm out.   

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2 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Biggest killers of Axis pilots are Axis pilots mistakes. 

I believe biggest killers on either sides is pilot mistakes :) 

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10 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

IMHO the campaign should favor the VVS. They should have more planes than LW available for their pilots compared to the LW and even better positions in the map. I mean, cmon, they have shitty planes, almost always outnumbered in every campaign and the LW is the one invading their freaking country. I agree that LW only pilots do whine a lot ... Fly both sides and you will understand the struggle on the VVS side. I understand some want to make stuff more historical but this is simply impossible with what we have available. It is clear in every single server that the majority of players fly for the LW and saying that stacked teams do not affect gameplay is just nonsense. It is horrible fighting when it is like 40x10 and it ruins enjoyment. VVS might even pull off wins but there are several factors involved in that as many have pointed out before. The thing is, you as a LW pilot, should  be ashamed of urself for asking for balance when you are already on top. Every side has their pros and cons so learn how to use it. If it's so bad flying blue, go fly red then.

 

Actually, you bring up some good points Riksen - for those wanting a more historically accurate experience (not talking the plane set, as we all know there aren't enough variants of each plane type), a different "maximum number of planes per pilot", as well as introducing a "maximum participant per side" limitation could change the overall feel of the campaign, and press home the often desperate feeling pilots from each side faced (more so for the Russians in 1941-1942, and more so for the Germans in 1944-1945).

 

For example:

Maps 1-3 could favor the Germans in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 50 vs Russians max 30)

Maps 4-5 could be even in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (40 vs 40)

Maps 6-8 could favor the Russians in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 30 vs Russians max 50)

 

As technology improved in Russian aircraft/equipment in 43/44/45, so to did the number of Russian aircraft in the air vs the dwindling number of German aircraft in the air to meet them.

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50 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

For example:

Maps 1-3 could favor the Germans in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 50 vs Russians max 30)

Maps 4-5 could be even in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (40 vs 40)

Maps 6-8 could favor the Russians in number of max planes per pilot, and maximum pilots per side (e.g. Germans max: 30 vs Russians max 50)

 

 

First would be redundant and third would be punitive, as the last two maps Axis usually get their stuff kicked in anyhow. 

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The TAW server has 84 slots.  Just set the max slots per team to 42.  There will be plenty of opportunities for BOTH sides to cry about being outnumbered (ex: 42 vs. 10, etc.),  and plenty of opportunities to collect salt when you're on the larger team.  At least 1 team won't be able to almost completely close-out the battle by occupying ALL the slots.  At least "major" battles with a full server will be even. 

 

Either that or give EVERYBODY regardless of team only I-16s equipped with one-hit god bullets.  :P

Edited by Mobile_BBQ
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Hello everybody, nice to be back after years and nothing have not change.....

Biggest broblem is system itself:  Everything is pinpointed in map....Early barbarossa was mostly search and destroy...what do we have to search ? Nothing.

What is the Flak ? we probably know this. Is the enemy covering target? probably. Is this target worth of bombing? yes , as u can see on the map ? Where is the tanks ?

Exactly on this road. as u can see on the map. How many enemies ? Just press tab !!! Server is for 84 pilots...so it is...how many red or blue ?  Nobody knows. 

 

- after ketting killed....one hour ban

- let the pilot decide if he/she let somebody coming gunners position

-add captured pilot rescue mission

-we only need to know airfield to start and if we are lucky land

-make this more harder

-and u are captured when closer enemy unit than own

-was there frontline in 1941 ? No

 

Happy holiday....see u

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IMHO:

Depots need more AAA. Bat only before 3000m. It's target for level bombing and not for  JABO. But every bomber over 4000 need to leave this area alive, if there are no CAP there. Because it's a hard work to fly on depots on bomber. And i don't accept any opinions about that from fighters.

Jabo attack result screenshot attached.

tawscr.png

Edited by =KK=Des_
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3 hours ago, LeLv76_Oke said:

Hello everybody, nice to be back after years and nothing have not change.....

Biggest broblem is system itself:  Everything is pinpointed in map....Early barbarossa was mostly search and destroy...what do we have to search ? Nothing.

What is the Flak ? we probably know this. Is the enemy covering target? probably. Is this target worth of bombing? yes , as u can see on the map ? Where is the tanks ?

Exactly on this road. as u can see on the map. How many enemies ? Just press tab !!! Server is for 84 pilots...so it is...how many red or blue ?  Nobody knows. 

 

- after ketting killed....one hour ban

- let the pilot decide if he/she let somebody coming gunners position

-add captured pilot rescue mission

-we only need to know airfield to start and if we are lucky land

-make this more harder

-and u are captured when closer enemy unit than own

-was there frontline in 1941 ? No

 

Happy holiday....see u

All indicated on the map due to engine restrictions.Even if you hide all the objects, nothing prevents especially smart participants to download the mission file, open it in the editor and see the location of the goals. The solution to this problem has been tested on the project NULL-WAR, when the intelligence on the object had to fly from 1 to 3 times with a delay between spans of at least 1 minute.  About Barbarossa and "search and destroy" you are not quite right. Ju-87 worked as long-range artillery at the request of infantry and motorized units, sensitively understand where at the moment the front line, despite its very dynamic change. Although the free hunting of bomber and assault aircraft during the active offensive has not been canceled. Fog of war-the thing is not bad, was also implemented on the project NULL-WAR, no special problems were not, although the observation posts worked and warned about the flight of single aircraft or groups of enemy aircraft. The duration of the ban after the death of the best made dynamic depending on the number of people on the server. NULL-WAR ban was if my memory serves me from 3 minutes for the first death in the course of the mission, up to 15 minutes for the third death. When the server is fully loaded, no one bothers to make a 60-minute ban for death in the mission.

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8 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

The TAW server has 84 slots.  Just set the max slots per team to 42.  There will be plenty of opportunities for BOTH sides to cry about being outnumbered (ex: 42 vs. 10, etc.),  and plenty of opportunities to collect salt when you're on the larger team.  At least 1 team won't be able to almost completely close-out the battle by occupying ALL the slots.  At least "major" battles with a full server will be even. 

 

Either that or give EVERYBODY regardless of team only I-16s equipped with one-hit god bullets.  :P

^This

 

People might actually start flying for the side that offers 20 attractive open slots 😍

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On 8/1/2018 at 8:55 AM, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Doubt a He 111 or a Stuka OR a 110 will pull trickshots like a peshka, a person brought up that they are the same, and they can provide video evidence, which i would love to see

I don;t think i was complaining about calibers of any type of gunner, please don't throw words in my mouth :) 

One picture of one or my books

20180802_100149-2.jpg

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27 minutes ago, perdweeb said:

Will the server ever be back up?

 

It takes about a month on average between TAW campaigns. They make a bunch of changes, test stuff, improve stuff. Be patient, it's worth it :)

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22 minutes ago, BubbRubb11 said:

 

It takes about a month on average between TAW campaigns. They make a bunch of changes, test stuff, improve stuff. Be patient, it's worth it :)

Thank you for the reply. <S>

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Interesting development on the Spanish forums regarding parachute killing : 

 

 

Quoting the author after google translate --- "The idea is the following. To agree with that part of the community that we share this idea, in banning from the server to the pilot who kills a parachute. I'm missing some data, but in principle within the server, you can open the list of players, select a pilot and vote to ban it. I do not know how many votes will be necessary, but if a part of the community is organized and coordinated, we can get enough votes."

 

Something to watch out for @=LG=Kathon

 

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Salute all

 

I think author was me   , i ask to rest of spanish users about parachute kill for think together what we can do.

 

Our last conclusion was 

 

- This tool " ban a pilot with votes " , can will be used in wrong way, and simply ban a pilot for other reasons.

And the most important.

 

- TAW have administrators and people are working to made posible, at the end they have the responsibility, for do they want to do , for example about "chutekill" they can lisent the community or no lisent.  At the end of the debate conclusions were ,  if we (like a comunity)  go one more step ago than rules, maybe we incurs on a fault of respect to TAW admins

In conclusion ( under my point of view ) parachute kill  is a TAW admin decision, they promove it, we can do nothing except assume or stop play TAW.  But organizate for ban a pilot for "chutekill " maybe can be interpreted like a fault of respect for actualy rules.

 

sry for my bad english

 

 

 

 

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Let's not open the chute killing debate again please :). LG cleary staded it is allowed. Let the pilots decide who they want to be. 

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1 minute ago, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

Let's not open the chute killing debate again please :). LG cleary staded it is allowed. Let the pilots decide who they want to be. 

 

 

Well those guys were deciding if they wanted to decide it for others by abusing the vote ban system that the server provides. Intention was not to bring up chute killing again, but to make admins aware of the members of this community who think that it is OK to do so.

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29 minutes ago, JaffaCake said:

 

 

Well those guys were deciding if they wanted to decide it for others by abusing the vote ban system that the server provides. Intention was not to bring up chute killing again, but to make admins aware of the members of this community who think that it is OK to do so.

 

Aparently either the translator didn't work well or you don't seem to understand what you are reading (or both). The OP of that thread was questioning the system and if you do a further reading you will see that none of the users that reply not even the OP are ok with using the ban system. Tumu even replied here but again you ignored him. 

 

It's not very nice to extract partial information from a thread and even worse without knowing the language in which it was written. It's worse  if used with hazardous purposes. And it's even worse if considering that the debate (of the ban system, the parachute shooting it's a never-ending topic) was from april and was already closed. 

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Excuse me, i have to rectificate you sir.

 

we dont think thats is OK to do so.  If u read and understand all our debate , you can appreciate , we arrives to your conclusion.  Maybe can end in a abusing vote ban system, and unrespectful to admins and TAW rules. 

 

I made a question to my  spanish comunity, many members drop their opinion , arrives to some conclusions and end debate. Thats all, Im proud to can talk with community this questions and apreciate their opinions.

 

i send u a PM Jaffa.

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, HR_Tofolo said:

 

Aparently either the translator didn't work well or you don't seem to understand what you are reading (or both). The OP of that thread was questioning the system and if you do a further reading you will see that none of the users that reply not even the OP are ok with using the ban system. Tumu even replied here but again you ignored him. 

 

It's not very nice to extract partial information from a thread and even worse without knowing the language in which it was written. It's worse  if used with hazardous purposes. And it's even worse if considering that the debate (of the ban system, the parachute shooting it's a never-ending topic) was from april and was already closed. 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but reading the first post of that thread what I have gathered is that Tumu was only interested to speak with those who were against chute killing, he was suggesting that they could organise and use vote-ban system that server allows to ban the chute killers and that was motivated by the fact that admins were not against chute killing and they were doing nothing to prevent it.

 

 

Its a relief that the rest of the posts were against the proposal, but its a significant issue that such a proposal was even made by, who I consider, a respected member of the community.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, JaffaCake said:

 

 

 

Its a relief that the rest of the posts were against the proposal, but its a significant issue that such a proposal was even made by, who I consider, a respected member of the community.

 

 

 

Don't dramatise it, it's not like they would have apllied it. People like having ideas nothing wrong with that, and people get really salty after being killed in chute and it can cause such debate to take place. I think you are born in the wrong  era for witch hunting ;) 

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40 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

What is the topic?

 

Oh wait. Not interested in it. 🕹️

The current topic, if in fact it is a recycled topic for this thread, is off-topic.   

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On 6/26/2018 at 4:17 PM, Banzaii said:

Red's attitude torwards early planset?  "Oooh my I-16 or P40, is so worthless."........ suck less and play. I would love to be in a p40 right now over a stuka, but choices were made this round.

 

On 6/28/2018 at 3:18 AM, Banzaii said:

You mean dropping bombs then getting flak's attention from the other four stukas im leading so my wingman make it home.  Stats are a meaningless number unless you look at the context. Stats will always be the bane of these campaigns.

 

War has much more than stats, been there survived to fly IL2, bonds with the men you fight with, worth more than a +CM.  You should try it.

 

You should try being less of a prick.

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I think the P-40 is a great plane, for ground attacking and low level.  It might not be a great dogfighter, but anything the .50 cals can wreck on the ground will get wrecked.  It's probably the most stable and easy to aim soft ground target sniper the Allies currently have.  Put dot on the target, pull trigger when in range, pull up, repeat.

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As a dedicated level bomber I can tell you (for the depot debate) that the greatest deterrent is knowing there are dedicated patrols covering the target.

 

Last campaign, carl Infar was my nemesis. He shot me down 3 sorties in a row by predicting my likely target and route and got me before or just as I got there.

 

This campaign I noticed that Ivy and Ramawill, and others, were doing a lot of defensive patrolling.

 

There is nothing more disheartening than being 1 hour into a flight, and 10 minutes off a depot, and getting the notification "Ivy has joined the game" only to see a little dot appear at the airfield closest to the depot, because you know Ivy will be hunting for you!

 

Anyway, well played all and thanks to admins for another great campaign. 

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Perhaps a solution to the depot defense would be having a few ai fighter patrols around the depots. wouldn't be many maybe 2 flights of 2 aircraft per depot but it should discourage the lone bomber pilots somewhat. 

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Adding a few more random flak around each depot (maybe 10-20km out or more) might help notify pilots slightly sooner that their depot was about to be hit, getting more defensive fighters into the air.

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5 hours ago, leno said:

 

Last campaign, carl Infar was my nemesis. He shot me down 3 sorties in a row by predicting my likely target and route and got me before or just as I got there.

 

That's an interesting phenomenon that develops when low player number periods occur at the same time every night with the same players. People start paying attention to the habits of specific individuals on the other side, and 1v1 or 2v2 cat and mouse games play out all over the map. It looks more like what I suppose WWI flying must have been like, and it's a very different dynamic than that of a full server.

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