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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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New recon photos will be avaiable soon. We have corrected them already.

 

Recon photos are now correct.

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Quite annoying bug, not blocking : 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=22300&name=-IRRE-Magik

 

This mission didn't count just because I had to Alt-F4 AFTER final and safe landing because my Esc key wasn't working anymore. The LANDED status should prevail.

 

BTW, excellent server with well thought mechanisms. Should be more strict about pilots and planes personal and side limitations for victory. But I'm a realist-behavior nazi :)

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leutnant Artur I didn't see you bail ? lost my very modest kill streak through being target fixated on you lol, this is how things panned out from my point of view :)

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leutnant Artur I didn't see you bail ? lost my very modest kill streak through being target fixated on you lol, this is how things panned out from my point of view :)

 

 

Oh man that was a pain to watch :biggrin: Hate it when such a thing happens..

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leutnant Artur I didn't see you bail ? lost my very modest kill streak through being target fixated on you lol, this is how things panned out from my point of view :)

 

 

Was that a VR recording herne? Something seemed particularly shaky and visceral about it. Awesome and terrifying!

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Well that was close. First hits cut my tail aileron cable but I managed to pull up with few tricks. Death was close this time ;) But as they say "a bad things never dies" hehe

 

 

EDIT:

Btw... karma mwahahaha :lol:

Edited by =LG=Leutnant_Artur

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Just click on any airfield on the main page.

 

http://taw-server.de/

Holy s**t. I never knew this was a thing. I always wanted to fly out and take actual screenshots for the boys. My man Sketch.

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On winter maps it's noticeable

 

Summer you can ignore it over time.

 

I'm now only doing VR in SP, and trackIR on the 55" for MP. I'll probably do VR in structured coops when that arrives. I love my rift to death always will.

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I didn't expect that VR looks THAT good!

 

That's the flight recorder playback on ultra settings. In VR MP I tend to play balanced settings and medium shadows.

 

If you get a chance to try it VR I highly recommend it. Adds a whole new layer of exhilaration and fear due to the sense of presence. Many people will tell you that they can no longer play sim like games with track ir. I would be one of them. VR res does leave a lot to be desired in terms of lenses and pixel density. Flying these old war birds in VR however is like a dream come true. Closest that I'll ever come to taking a ride in them

 

 

Edited by =11=herne

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I think 'visceral' sums it up, felt very real when the bullets hit!

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From what I understand is that the health of the teams depots coincides with the amount of special load out planes available. When depots were completely destroyed on last map #1 for axis there were no He-111's with 1000SC's available.

 

The plane set does indeed say 1800SC is unavailable for the Ju-88, so you would think 1000SC are allowed on the Ju-88, but it also says "* SC1000 is limited for the He 111 H-6. It’s not available on frontline airfields and limitation depends on depot destruction". Don't know if this means ONLY the HE-111 can carry 1000SC for the sake of team balance, but the manual is pretty horribly translated, either way we will never know for sure.

 

I would just have it set so that the integrity of a teams depot has to be above a certain health level for the Ju-88 or other planes special load out to become available.

 

 

The SC1000 limitation (front-line airfields/ depot destruction) concerns the He 111 H-6 exclusively.

 

The Ju-88 has unavailable mods: SC1800 and 2xSC1000, but I don't remember if it's possible to take only one SC1000 for it. Have to check it.

 

 

I'm personally not big of fan of the current ditch system calling anything a 3 turn ditch regardless if your plane was hanging off a tree in the middle of the forest or emergency landed on an inactive airfield due to a fuelleak.

I'd like to see an overhaul for the ditching system based on a point system based on certain criteria:

  • +1 Turn for not on active/operational airfield
  • +1 Turn for engine disabled
  • +1 turn for structural failure 

How much information are availble the stats about damage on individual airplane parts? Is something like that even possible on the technical side with IL2?

 

There is only a percentage of the damage. And the funny part is that an aircraft with only bend propeller has 100% damage, the same like wracked aircraft without wings and tail. It's not possible to determine what was damaged/destroyed.

 

I would go as far as suggest not only this, but this and the notion that :

 

Any sortie which does not end in death or capture should count towards regaining one's aircraft.

 

Even when pilot lands immediately after taking off? In that way he may regain aircraft after a few minutes.

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 I think you missed the point of Moaches post Artur.  He is a vocal campaigner for smart flying and RTB whenever possible and I don't think he has any problems with the penalties for being killed.   I think he is arguing  that the penalties for being less than perfect are too 'Black & White',  if you do not fly a perfect mission then you may as well not have bothered trying. He is just asking if there can be a few more graduations between 'You were too reckless and must be penalised' and 'You avoided any risk and will be rewarded for your temerity'.  It is like the war is being run by accountants  :happy:    In real life pilots came home full of holes and sometimes were forced to put down in a field or belly land on the airfield and everyone was happy he put his life on the line and still came back alive. In TAW you are rewarded for being a coward. Only attacking safe targets, or no targets at all,  then running home before any enemy sees you. 

 

I am not saying every pilot does that but it is rewarded if you do.  Fight aggressively but skillfully to stop your town being captured and have one undercarriage leg weakened so it collapses as you land back home and you will be severely punished.    I am new to TAW so maybe I am mistaken but from the manual it seems that bringing your damaged aircraft back to your field and bending a prop is treated the same as just putting it into the first field you see in friendly territory.  That is not encouraging realistic play.  Stay above the fight waiting for a defenceless JU52 and run away as soon as you see a  JU87 that might scratch your paintwork if you come too close and you will be rewarded.   Sure you wont be top of the stats table doing that but an analysis of risk/reward makes that the most 'sensible' thing to do to keep the accountants happy  :biggrin:

 

 

Seems you got the point there just right!

 

 

My main concern is that the rather brutal degree to which punishment is applied in TAW does far more than it's intended goal of forcing ppl to fight with their brains.

 

I'm all for anything which promotes realistic conduct in flying.  But the truth is, the reality of war, particularly this war, is being lost in TAW due to excessive caution.  It is well that pilots are afraid to die. Real pilots certainly would have been.

 

But they also would not have had a choice. They had a job to do.   

 

 

TAW puts pilots in an impossible state of authority over their own actions, and the concept of the "personal hangar" defeats aggression to an unhistorical degree.

 

In reality, a commander  would give the other to defend a target, and he would accept the risk in it that some of his men would not make it back.  In TAW however, this decision is made at a more personal level.  And alas, the rules create a problem which is quite simple, once understood:

 

 

In TAW, Personal planes are more important than targets.

 

 

 

So you see, while I'm all for the idea of fighting first with brains, and second with planes, whenever I do that in TAW, I find that I'm being forced into a very unpleasant dilemma, that is:

 

 

Whenever I fight with my brain in TAW,  it tells me to go in WoL and wait until the germans leave.

 

 

 

Targets always come back, see. Their losses can be dealt back and/or reversed.   There is basically no sense in defending them against unfavorable odds.

 

 

I mean this in a strategic sense.   Having analyzed one's options, it is easy to conclude that the best move a pilot can make under a tide of enemy action, is nothing at all.   Lest one chances becoming crippled to the point of being basically removed from competition. I.e:  running out of planes

 

Personal Planes are much too precious to squander, and their loss is much too difficult to overcome.  Especially so when outnumbered and we can all agree, teams are always unbalanced, to one side or the other.

 

I and many others have come to understand then, that one which plays TAW while outnumbered, quickly becomes destitute and is thus forced out of the game.  The only reliable way of remaining active, is to avoid engagements to an unrealistic degree, and play only in large groups, preferably while the other side is weakest.   

 

This behavior can be seen in the population numbers for the server.  It is this that explains the back-and-forth pattern of tidal teams which repeats in cycles of a few hours with almost clockwork persistence. 

Any moments of team balance are fluke events, caused by a coinciding presence of the larger squadrons.   The regular "loose players" quickly learn to respect the tidal cycle, lest they are soon forced out of action from personal fleet depletion

 

 

This defeats the very purposes of the original concept of TAW.  It's a perfect case of less is more. The 5-minute timeout for death is plenty enough to make pilots aware of their mortality.  The near irreplaceable value of personal airplanes, however, is too much.  That is where the game breaks down and farming becomes a dominant strategy

 

 

I am not making stuff up.  I have a major in the field of Game Planning and Design.  I make games for a living, see. 

 

TAW is a very good concept. But it is a broken game* at present, it's rules too punitive, shifting the point of competition from that of authentic WW2 dogfighting to an undesirable one, comprised chiefly of overzealous hangar-keeping and "waiting for the other team to leave" 

 

 

* A "Broken Game" is the name I give the state of affairs which many games succumb to, even famous successful titles, in which the conceptual premise of the game is replaced by something of an unplanned/undesirable nature.  A good example of this is StarCraft, where the premise of "strategy" gives way to an emergent point of competition that is based primarily on "who can click around the fastest".  

 

Just as a broken RTS degrades into speed management,  in TAW, realistic dogfighting has been defeated by an unauthentic personal hangar, which makes it more important to collect airplanes than to fight for your country.

 

 

 

Still, it is fine to deny use of an airplane if it has been lost.  It is less fine to require victory in order to gain it back.

 

That's particularly because victory is best achieved with better airplanes.  This creates a condition of exponential defeat. Any loss of a more capable aircraft leaves a pilot less and less capable of offering any resistance.  While this is true of warfare in a strategic sense,  the "personal hangar" is a very poor analogy of that reality.  In the end, it results in very inauthentic behavior, where to act for the good of your team works against your personal capabilities.

 

 

My recommendations to fix and improve TAW, and make it quite possibly the best multiplayer experience for this game:

 

 

 

  - Not all planes should require 3 CMs to regain.  Not all planes are "elite models", see...

 

 - Workhorse types (Stuka, IL2, anything with an unfavorable attrition rate) should be restored in ONE CM.  

 

 - Elite Types (FW190, Yak1b, etc...) should be the ones which have to be earned.  3 CMs is enough. 

      No plane should be more precious than the fate of your team!

 

 - Any outcome besides capture or death should give a pilot +1 CM (provided 10 mins of flight regardless of any kills claimed)

 

 Thus, once a plane of any sort is lost, it only becomes momentarily unavailable, forcing a pilot to use his other assets (defeating the "everyone flies top gear" problem)

 

 - Planes departing from airfields under attack should not be removed from the pilot's hangar if lost.  Scrambles should be encouraged, Not punished. Historically, this is completely backwards.

   Under the current rules, most pilots will immediately abort a flight should the sirens start blaring before takeoff.  This is absurd. Such cowardice in reality would earn you a Court Marshall and likely execution. TAW rewards it instead, punishing the heroic alternative.

 

 - Hangars at "Rookie State" (as held by a newly arrived pilot) should be fully stocked with Workhorse Types. It is imperative that all pilots are kept minimally competitive at all times, despite their losses.   Running out of airplanes is a strategic concern. It should not be a pilot's personal problem. 

 

 - The 5-minute spawn penalty for death is very persuasive. It should be kept.  A one minute timeout could apply for crashlanding away from base (walking back home).  Two minutes perhaps for evading capture on the wrong side of the lines.  5 Minutes should apply for capture, same as for death.

 

 - A different treatment between Death and Capture, however.  Death should reset the hangar to a minimalistic "Rookie State" (representing your arrival as a reincarnated/possessed new pilot). Capture however, should only cause the loss of plane, CMs, and 5 minutes of one's time.   (This should favour the choice of risking capture over death, as in reality the two are certainly NOT the same)

 

 - Planes crashlanded in friendly territory should be restored after one sortie, regardless of outcome.  This includes Elite Types.  This would mean a ditched Yak1b in friendly country would become available again after one CM, just as any other.  

 

 - Workhorse Types  ditched in friendly grounds should be kept available.  This is to represent the higher availability of these types, as it was in history.

 

 - Emergency landings at a friendly airfield should be considered a full victory.  A plane returned as such must remain immediately operational.  It is horrifyingly frustrating to lose a plane after nursing it carefully back home.  

 

 - Plane TRANSFERS should be possible between members of the same team.  This would encourage teamwork as a workaround to a state of personal destitution.  The simplest implementation of this would be to add a small "give one" button next to each plane when viewing another player's profile (of the same team, provided the giver actually has such a type to give).

 

 

 

 

Feel free to adapt as needed on these concepts, for the specifics of their implementation can only be refined under tests and trials.  

 

But I guarantee that the risk of unscrupulous disposable flying would be minimal under these modified rules, for the importance of returning to base remains thoroughly enforced.  

 

 

 

This should force pilots to consider their own survival in their actions, whilst not suppressing the choice to give battle against an overwhelming foe.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I strongly recommend TAW devs do some research on the art and science of game design and emergent mechanics.  There are books and studies on this field. (though nowhere near enough of it is observed in the modern gaming industry) Wikipedia offers a good place to get the basics:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

 

Machinations is a cleverly designed tool made for exploring the effects of mechanics and features in the abstract context of a game.  It is somewhat complex, but thoroughly documented with it's own wiki.  I highly recommend checking it out.

 

There are simple design mistakes to look for in TAW, the general nature of them are best described with an analogy:      

 

 

TAW is a football game in which every time a team scores a goal, a player is removed from the opponent.

Edited by 19//Moach
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moach not all planes require 3 cm's to regain. The CM+1's you get back for free on mission reset.

 

I understand your point about players being over cautious. I play solo quite a bit, if I work the objectives, then there is a very high chance I'll be on a one way trip, but although it's great when you start to build up a streak and a collection of medals, the real satisfaction comes from running the gauntlet, and making it home, mostly in one piece. The bigger your group when you set off, the better your chances of survival.

 

I think this is where TAW excels, it encourages group play, and encourages you to try to look after your bird, but especially your virtual life. 

 

I do like your ideas, if they were integrated on another server I think I would be very interested to try them out, but currently TAW is my favorite MP server. The admins are constantly tweaking and balancing things between campaigns. I really do enjoy what they've done here. 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it is their train set, and its pretty great, really enjoy that we get to play with it, and whenever it's between campaigns I miss it. While I am sure all suggestions are welcome, this server is about their vision for the game, not ours.

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 Three completely successful missions is nearly impossible for most players. If you don't believe me, just go past the top 25 players and you'll see that most of them have a nearly half empty hangers... Pass the top 100 players, and you'll see that their hangers are pretty much depleted or pilots are running transport missions to reacquire planes. The strictness of obtaining planes is too much, and most pilots won't spend their "entertainment time" flying a transport mission. Just food for thought...

 

 

 

 

Here is the chart presenting number of planes (QTY/MAX_QTY in %) in hangars taken from mission #138 for pilots with more than 10 sorites (x axis):

 

hangar_sortie10.JPG

 

It's clearly seen that:

  ~ 50% of pilots have at least 80% of all planes and 90% of pilots have at least 60% of all planes

 

  ~ 40% of pilots have  at least 80% of fighters and 80% of pilots have at least 60% of fighters

 

  ~ 50% of pilots have 100% of attackers and 90% of pilots have at least 70% of attackers

 

  ~ 40% of pilots have 100% of bombers and 80% of pilots have at least 70% of bombers

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moach not all planes require 3 cm's to regain. The CM+1's you get back for free on mission reset.

 

I understand your point about players being over cautious. I play solo quite a bit, if I work the objectives, then there is a very high chance I'll be on a one way trip, but although it's great when you start to build up a streak and a collection of medals, the real satisfaction comes from running the gauntlet, and making it home, mostly in one piece. The bigger your group when you set off, the better your chances of survival.

 

(...)

 

Alas, not all of us have the luxury of sharing a timezone with a number of squad-mates. 

 

This shifts the point of competition to an exceedingly social one, where luck often plays a more important role than skill of flying or clever decision-making.   Campaign outcomes are decided by this before they even start, in a sense.  Whichever side the larger squadrons join, has an unmatchable upper hand.

 

 

While teamwork is indeed the strongest point of TAW, it is wrong that only those who can reliably count on it are able to enjoy the server.   The reality of it is not that the presence of your teammates offsets the actions of the enemy.  Not entirely.   

 

The unfortunate truth is that as often as not, whenever a large group joins one side, the ungrouped players on the other team leave.

 

 

 

I do not think teamwork would suffer at all from a less punitive set of rules for personal hangar keeping.   In fact, I may well improve further still, as your combat-destitute fallen teammates would not say good-night after being the unlucky ones who didn't make it back.

 

The option to transfer planes between teammates would be a fantastic addition in that regard as well.  Allow players to collect more planes than they can use, so they can share them with their comrades.

 

 

That way, team victories can be enjoyed the same by those who gave their lives (and above all else, their precious planes) to make it happen.

 

 

 

I'm aware that it is not my server, and devs are free to do whatever they please with it.   Yet, it bears to remember that server-keeping is ultimately a social endeavour. For a multiplayer game is really made of people who play it. Thus their opinions, like the satisfaction of clients in any field of human activity, should count for something.

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Here is the chart presenting number of planes (QTY/MAX_QTY in %) in hangars taken from mission #138 for pilots with more than 10 sorites (x axis):

 

 

One might suggest players without planes may not actually play more than 10 sorties.  What would they fly?   

 

It is perfectly possible to run out of planes in well under 10 sorties.   All you need to do is not win.

 

 

Statistics taken from active players omit an unknowably large number of others who became inactive after having quit in frustration.  

 

 

TAW could easily be the single best, and most populous server for this game.  If only there weren't so many who give up on it after becoming devoid of options.

(Mind, a plane that a player isn't comfortable with is just as easily considered as not an option to him. Also, not everyone owns all planes.)

Edited by 19//Moach

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One might suggest players without planes may not actually play more than 10 sorties.  What would they fly?   

 

It is perfectly possible to run out of planes in well under 10 sorties.   All you need to do is not win.

 

 

Statistics taken from active players omit an unknowably large number of others who became inactive after having quit in frustration.  

 

 

TAW could easily be the single best, and most populous server for this game.  If only there weren't so many who give up on it after becoming devoid of options.

(Mind, a plane that a player isn't comfortable with is just as easily considered as not an option to him. Also, not everyone owns all planes.)

 

 

Here is chart for all players:

hangar.JPG

 

 

You are right that lowering requirements for gaining new aircraft would bring more new players, but during peak hours TAW is almost full. TAW is not suitable server for new players for sure. First they should gain experience on other servers. 

Edited by =LG=Kathon

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Those % need to correlated with other parameters like time or numbers of sorties flown. Many ppl just make account but are inactive (hence full hangar). BTW in addition to Moach well thought out suggestions I wonder what would global finite numbers of given plans types would work in strategic level of war.

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on the other hand, I had to queue for ten minutes before a slot freed up last night, Don't go making the server even more popular than it already is :)

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Before coming to BoX I used to play CLoD but only in one server, never any other,  because they did what TAW is trying to do.  They did it from a different perspective though.

 

1.) It was primarily aimed at squadrons and each registered squadron was allocated an airbase eg North Weald,  Croydon, Biggin Hill (actually larger fields such as Biggin could host up to three squadrons with different spawn areas). 

2.) Each squadron had a restricted number of aircraft. Similar to TAW but on a squad basis.

3.) Damaged aircraft that got home were put out of action anywhere from one hour to 24 hours depending on the damage while they were fixed.

4.) A limited number of Aircraft were replaced twice a week.

5. I should add that single pilots could fly on this server and certain front line field were allocated to be used solely by individuals.

 

This first point worked well because after a sortie you all returned together to that airfield. You also had to bear this in mind when damaged and possibly leave the battle and RTB.  Landing at someone elses airfield and not relaunching within 5 minutes meant that aircraft was unavailable for several hours as it was assumed to be getting a service then ferried home. Any damage you landed with also adds to the time delay.   You could of course just land long enough to refuel & re-arm then continue home if you have no damage.

 

The second point, while similar to TAWs, worked out a bit different because you were wasting your squad mates aircraft , not just your own.  The peer pressure seemed to make you more careful but also made your squadmates more careful about protecting each other.

 

The third point is where it differed a lot from TAW and what Moach is primarily asking about.  As long as you got home, no matter what the damage,  you knew the aircraft would be back in a day or two at most but it could be only an hour or two.  Something as simple as a bent prop from having to land on your runway wheels up was not ideal because it lost your squad an aircraft for a few hours but not as bad as TAW where you may as well have just ditched in a field and saved yourself limping home for 15 minutes.  That is the big loss on TAW in my opinion,  the satisfaction of getting a damaged aircraft home and being rewarded with less downtime.  It does sound though as if BoX does not provide the tools to allow TAW to decide how much damage was done.  Personally I think it better if TAW did not try to work on the basis of 'Completely healthy or a pile of scrap'.  If you cannot tell the difference then just say 'He got home with *some sort of damage* but he did get home so take the plane out of action and replace it when the map changes.'   We can tell if someone landed on an airfield as I know many servers ignore BoX saying someone was shotdown when he landed with a dead engine as long as he did land at an airfield.

 

The fourth point is similar to TAW in that only a restricted number of aircraft got replaced periodically but in this case it is the Squads aircraft being replaced.  Actually in CLoD the replacements were done by applying to a central committee explaining how you lost the aircraft and saying what replacements you would like. Only a certain number of replacements were made each week (that number could be cut if the aircraft factories got bombed) and the committee decided who gets what.  It was a pain for the committee members and I dont expect TAW to do the same :-)  

 

I am not sure why but it did not seem to lead to the selfish/over-prudent behaviour I am seeing on TAW.  Perhaps because it is not your personal planes at risk.   Yes there were times when our squadron doing a patrol saw a formation of 109s that decided as we were higher they would turn away and not fight us but that was true to real life and we considered we had done our job chasing them away even if we got no kills because it left their bombers undefended and we could limit their offensive capabilities by destroying the bombers.  It did also mean that squad pilots rarely flew alone in case they lost an aircraft and had to explain to the squad why  so most flying was restricted to squad nights or days they knew they could link up unofficially.   It was a 24/7 server so that could lead to quiet times or times when the LW bombers could sneak over during a quiet time and bomb unopposed. The RAF even ended up setting up a twitter page just so any lone pilots who happened to be in-game could alert everyone to the bomber raids in case anyone else could log on quickly and help :-) 

 

Much of this is irrelevant because TAW does not run each map 24/7,  but it might suggest a few things that could be changed, especially in the damage repair delay methods.  I am with Moach in that any RTB after a reasonable flight time should be rewarded, even if damaged.   By all means pile on the pain for deaths and destroyed aircraft though. 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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Personally I think the plane reimbursement is fine. I haven't found myself wanting for aircraft in many, many campaigns.

 

I am very cautious tho, mostly because I hate dying, not because I'm worried about running out of planes.

 

I have no answers for what you guys are talking about, but I don't think making plans reimbursement easier will help.

 

Frankly, It's really hard to simulate the balance between wanting to stay alive and wanting to defend one's country like you'd find in real life. I don't know how much closer we'll really get until TAW starts electric shocking you on death and spitting out money when you save a city by knocking out a tank column at great risk to your life...

Edited by 19//curiousGamblerr
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Before coming to BoX I used to play CLoD but only in one server, never any other,  because they did what TAW is trying to do.  They did it from a different perspective though.

 

1.) It was primarily aimed at squadrons and each registered squadron was allocated an airbase eg North Weald,  Croydon, Biggin Hill (actually larger fields such as Biggin could host up to three squadrons with different spawn areas). 

2.) Each squadron had a restricted number of aircraft. Similar to TAW but on a squad basis.

3.) Damaged aircraft that got home were put out of action anywhere from one hour to 24 hours depending on the damage while they were fixed.

4.) A limited number of Aircraft were replaced twice a week.

5. I should add that single pilots could fly on this server and certain front line field were allocated to be used solely by individuals.

 

This first point worked well because after a sortie you all returned together to that airfield. You also had to bear this in mind when damaged and possibly leave the battle and RTB.  Landing at someone elses airfield and not relaunching within 5 minutes meant that aircraft was unavailable for several hours as it was assumed to be getting a service then ferried home. Any damage you landed with also adds to the time delay.   You could of course just land long enough to refuel & re-arm then continue home if you have no damage.

 

The second point, while similar to TAWs, worked out a bit different because you were wasting your squad mates aircraft , not just your own.  The peer pressure seemed to make you more careful but also made your squadmates more careful about protecting each other.

 

The third point is where it differed a lot from TAW and what Moach is primarily asking about.  As long as you got home, no matter what the damage,  you knew the aircraft would be back in a day or two at most but it could be only an hour or two.  Something as simple as a bent prop from having to land on your runway wheels up was not ideal because it lost your squad an aircraft for a few hours but not as bad as TAW where you may as well have just ditched in a field and saved yourself limping home for 15 minutes.  That is the big loss on TAW in my opinion,  the satisfaction of getting a damaged aircraft home and being rewarded with less downtime.  It does sound though as if BoX does not provide the tools to allow TAW to decide how much damage was done.  Personally I think it better if TAW did not try to work on the basis of 'Completely healthy or a pile of scrap'.  If you cannot tell the difference then just say 'He got home with *some sort of damage* but he did get home so take the plane out of action and replace it when the map changes.'   We can tell if someone landed on an airfield as I know many servers ignore BoX saying someone was shotdown when he landed with a dead engine as long as he did land at an airfield.

 

The fourth point is similar to TAW in that only a restricted number of aircraft got replaced periodically but in this case it is the Squads aircraft being replaced.  Actually in CLoD the replacements were done by applying to a central committee explaining how you lost the aircraft and saying what replacements you would like. Only a certain number of replacements were made each week (that number could be cut if the aircraft factories got bombed) and the committee decided who gets what.  It was a pain for the committee members and I dont expect TAW to do the same :-)  

 

I am not sure why but it did not seem to lead to the selfish/over-prudent behaviour I am seeing on TAW.  Perhaps because it is not your personal planes at risk.   Yes there were times when our squadron doing a patrol saw a formation of 109s that decided as we were higher they would turn away and not fight us but that was true to real life and we considered we had done our job chasing them away even if we got no kills because it left their bombers undefended and we could limit their offensive capabilities by destroying the bombers.  It did also mean that squad pilots rarely flew alone in case they lost an aircraft and had to explain to the squad why  so most flying was restricted to squad nights or days they knew they could link up unofficially.   It was a 24/7 server so that could lead to quiet times or times when the LW bombers could sneak over during a quiet time and bomb unopposed. The RAF even ended up setting up a twitter page just so any lone pilots who happened to be in-game could alert everyone to the bomber raids in case anyone else could log on quickly and help :-) 

 

Much of this is irrelevant because TAW does not run each map 24/7,  but it might suggest a few things that could be changed, especially in the damage repair delay methods.  I am with Moach in that any RTB after a reasonable flight time should be rewarded, even if damaged.   By all means pile on the pain for deaths and destroyed aircraft though. 

 

That CloD server sounds like a blast ! on TAW I did think that that ditched aircraft had variable delays depending on damage, let me check the manual . . . 

 

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Seems I was mistaken, but it is kind of implied with the try to land as close to friendly units as possible . . . How hard would it be to have some ditches at AF's count as a 1 mission downtime ?

 

 

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Although I dont agree with all points suggested by Moach, I do think that we should have a workhorse plane available for everyone regardless of their personnal plane loses. Taw is already the best server out there for sure and you guys always think of a way to improve it ... Good luck figuring the puzzle out again :)

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Seems I was mistaken, but it is kind of implied with the try to land as close to friendly units as possible . . . How hard would it be to have some ditches at AF's count as a 1 mission downtime ?

 

 

 

Not just this, but ditching in friendly territory, especially near friendly units should certainly count as +1CM.    It's heartbreaking to go through all the effort of almost making it home, yet having it deny you the mission over the damage you took while doing your duty.

 

it's one thing to punish a sortie which ends in Doom™  But a lighter hand should be applied when dealing with cases of "almost made it".  

 

A successful crash-landing often feels like a greater victory than a clean, undamaged return.  TAW turns these moments into defeats almost as bad as death itself.  

 

 

Seems subtle enough, I guess, but it makes a HUGE difference to fly knowing that a damaged plane flown back would still avail you credit for your efforts.   Many an engagement have been chosen against, favoring cowardly inaction, simply by knowing that a precious CM would not be gained if (possibly unavoidable) damage is suffered.

 

Losing the plane is one thing, and mostly fine, really.  But losing the mission over crash-landing is what really ruins it for me.  It makes it much too important to stay safe.  Too important.  Real pilots would not shy away from defending their motherland over the risk of damaging their planes a bit. 

 

Death one thing, and certainly a defeat.    But "Not death" should be always considered a victory.   

 

+1CM  for a safe crash-landing would very well restore the option of taking calculated risks.   Even if the plane is down for a few runs afterward, There would be a sense of progress made in having a mission credited for returning alive.   

 

Also, ditched planes should ideally be returned upon count of CMs, not only map turns.  It takes longer to regain a ditched plane that way than to farm CMs for a new one.  This drives pilots away from the frontline, patrolling for 15 mins at a time safely away from any possibility of combat.

 

 

The proposition then is simple:   

 

Ditched planes should return after up to 3 CMs (or map turns, counted together) depending on distance from friendly units (or immediately, if at base). 

CMs should get awarded for any result other than death or capture, provided 15 minutes of flight or any victories. 

 

Another thing:  "In Flight" endings should always yield +1CM. 

 

It is frustratingly common that players choose not to fly having found the mission clock past one hour and a half.  It would do better to throw late-joiners a bone. This would encourage joining in at the last minutes of a map.  Currently, most pilots will deliberately stay away until the map has cycled.  Even with the random "time window", it is a common practice to stay grounded, knowing full well that such a late sortie may count for naught.

 

 

Rule of thumb for game design:   Any feature or mechanic which encourages "Not Playing" should be thoroughly reconsidered. 

Edited by 19//Moach
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I agree with Moach that you should still get a CM for a ditch, but I do like that ditching gives you a small xp hit. if you able to get enough points/kills in a given sortie though you can still net positive xp, even after ditching your craft.

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A successful crash-landing often feels like a greater victory than a clean, undamaged return.  TAW turns these moments into defeats almost as bad as death itself.  

 

I also have this twisted view :-)    Coming home in perfect health always feels a bit disappointing compared to limping home against the odds. I an ideal world I want my engine to die barely in gliding distance of the runway threshold then find one flap fails to come down so I have to catch the sudden violent wing drop & yaw and barely straighten up in time to land in one piece  :o:    I also fly sitting on a bed of nails while wearing a gimp suit  :biggrin:

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Please TAW Team in the next campaign you can set up a 24h lock on a death of the pilot. That makes it a little bit more real ....:)

5 min are nothing....

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Please TAW Team in the next campaign you can set up a 24h lock on a death of the pilot. That makes it a little bit more real .... :)

5 min are nothing....

 

 

I hope you are being sarcastic or just making a joke ....

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Please TAW Team in the next campaign you can set up a 24h lock on a death of the pilot. That makes it a little bit more real .... :)

5 min are nothing....

Just self inflict it, every time you get killed leave the server for 24 hours. Have fun.

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Is there a campaign mechanic that explains why airfields that are recently taken are returned to the opposing team after 1-2 maps without any tank coumn attacking them? 
Is it because they were above 80% damage for 2 turns or something? dont quite understand this, have seen it occur twice on this current map

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