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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)

I know what you mean.  Wink, wink. Nudge nudge was meant to be a hint about how to get a little "get back" on those guys without going outside the squad policy.  

 

Anyway, back to TAW business.  Sorry for the diversion.

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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Posted (edited)

Last map I was 200 meters behind a 111 shreding it to pieces when sundenly an i-16 filled my screen, I had to roll hard away to avoid raming him ( exposing a good angle to the gunners and got hit doing so), couldn't lift off the trigger fast enough and got a small burst into his wingtip. Funny enough He rammed something or was shot down later and I get credited the kill for him. Out of my tally I got an i 16 credited. I don't understand who in his right mind places himself infront of a shooting p 40

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=2295&name==FSB=Man-Yac

Edited by =FSB=Man-Yac

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17 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

FYI is the algorithm for balance not working anymore?

 

 

Best regards!

algorithm broken.png

It's working but those numbers shows spawned pilots and waiting pilots. Not all of 38 reds are flying there (this was much easier and faster for me to implement it)

 

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Just got disco'd from the server and the TeamSpeak and can't rejoin.  Anyone else?  

I was not in combat or damaged.  If this penalizes me a life, can I have please it restored by Admins?  

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2 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Just got disco'd from the server and the TeamSpeak and can't rejoin.  Anyone else?  

I was not in combat or damaged.  If this penalizes me a life, can I have please it restored by Admins?  

I was also disco'd and the stats page is down.  Think it was a server issue.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

Would TAW admin(s) consider a second Flying Circus campaign server when it is more complete? If the numbers were there of course. 

The main problem is the hardware server. I don't think it would be possible to run two servers TAW and FC at the same time without killing the CPU.

 

If the FC community was big maybe it would be possible to rent a new dedicated hardware.

Edited by =LG=Kathon

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22 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

The main problem is the hardware server. I don't think it would be possible to run two servers TAW and FC at the same time without killing the CPU.

 

If the FC community was big maybe it would be possible to rent a new dedicated hardware.

Alternating campaigns maybe when BoX taw isn't running? 

 

Any news from support for the server :( ?

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1 minute ago, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

Any news from support for the server :( ?

 

no 

 

will take longer. I think we have to take a break this evening

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2 hours ago, StG2_Raven said:

 

no 

 

will take longer. I think we have to take a break this evening

Thank you for keeping us updated. That way we can plan our evenings 😀👍

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:04 AM, [JG52t]whitecrow said:

@CptSiddy  

MiGs are always faster on the deck than I give them credit for. 

Easy to underestimate the MiG-3. It’s a stable platform with a decent amount of firepower. It’s a decently fast aircraft (for time period) at most altitudes and retains energy well if flown right. 

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2 hours ago, StG2_Raven said:

 

no 

 

will take longer. I think we have to take a break this evening

 

 

TAW site is up. Any chance to get the server alive today?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/16/2019 at 5:59 AM, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I think most people would agree that gunners need work, and I do too, but you might want to consider that high speed and high angle of approach might reduce the chance of being hit but the only way to truly avoid the possibility is to be completely outside the gunner's traverse range.  You might have come in fast and steep but, if you were on a predictable line, the gunner just had to spray and pray out in front of you, letting you fly through the bullet stream.   -  Not an argument.  Just some advice/perspective to consider.   o7

 

 

 

I think that the biggest problem with the 109 e7 is that you have to get it going control-stiffeningly fast in order to catch a Pe-2 that's running at best speed.  This usually also means that you have to be lingering right on the 6 of the Pe-2 giving the gunner what in baseball terms is called a "meatball" - AKA an easy pitch to hit.

The I-16 has similar issues with the 111s and 88s but as it turns out the all pea-shooter configuration is the way to go.  No loss of speed and a 2 second burst across the fuel tank or the underside of an engine with Armor Piercing Incendiary (API) rounds has a very high chance of being a fire starter.  

The real issue is getting the space and opportunity, away from fighter cover, to stalk the prey and calculate the best time to attack.  Most of the time that's just not something that's on the table.      

Yeah, the PE-2 AI Gunners are super deadly, both top and bottom positions. The JU-88, HE-111 and ME-110 AI Gunners are nowhere close to being on the same lever as the PE-2. It’s a super fast twin and can take hits, unlike its German counterparts. 

 

Best way to kill PE-2’s is having two or more aircraft working together. Zoom in, hit the PE-2 from the front, sides, top and underneath, etc. Being offset 45* (high or low) works well, especially if you have 2 or more aircraft making passes on it. 

 

We (Flight of three 109E7’s) knocked out 3 of them in one sortie last night. Have to be disciplined with the tactics though. Can’t target fixate or their gunners will tat you up.  Two or more fighters slowly chipping away on a Pe-2 works.. Forcing them to maneuver and get slow seems to work the best so far. 

 

The Pe-2 is still a tough aircraft to shoot down, even with two or more aircraft working together. Engaging a Pe-2 solo in TAW is a gamble with a lot of risk involved. 

 

Working as a team without worrying about who gets credit for the kill is the best way to destroy these bombers.

 

One of the best qualities of TAW is the emphasis on teamwork. It’s not about individual stats, it’s about the entire team working together to win a map. 

 

Cheers

Edited by [TWB]Reagan-LW
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2 hours ago, [TWB]Reagan-LW said:

Yeah, the PE-2 AI Gunners are super deadly, both top and bottom positions. The JU-88, HE-111 and ME-110 AI Gunners are nowhere close to being on the same lever as the PE-2. It’s a super fast twin and can take hits, unlike its German counterparts. 

 

 

God, this argument is an endless circle jerk on IL-2 forums isn't it?  The absolute refusal to admit that ALL gunners in IL-2 are potentially just as deadly warrants only 1 honest response: Build me a boat, then cry me a river. 

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On 5/15/2019 at 8:38 PM, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

... Or maybe do additional supply runs to get life back or something. 

 

 

I'm surprised no one commented on this suggestion (that I've seen).

 

Personally (whatever that is worth), I think this is a really good idea.  It would give everyone a purpose on the server, and more targets for the l33t among us to intercept.

 

On the other hand, I also wonder just how you get all the folks registered an opportunity to play, given the server can only accommodate so many players at one time.  Without the 3 life rule, I suppose there is the potential for the server to be loaded to capacity a lot of the time.  Thoughts?

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On 5/16/2019 at 2:45 AM, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

The team stackers are enraged.... 🤣

 

Looks like I'll be registering for this TAW!!!! It's been a few campaigns. I look forward to signing up. Damn..... I might even register my blue.

 

There where more guys who got sick of the side stack and will return if a fair fight solution has been found. If we lose 8 guys but 15 return..... Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

This rage from the stackers has me looking forward to this campaign.

 

 

You are projecting modern constraints onto total war in order to fit a poor argument. Very wordy explanations to justify removal of something you don't like. It's not even a large %.

 

I will counter your poor $$$ argument with the 8th Air Force just because I enjoy the banter.....

Quantity has a quality all on it's own was the Soviet playbook to drive my point home further.

 

No one from my squad wants to stack a particular side.  All we want to do is fly with our squaddies in JG51.  You know, the same as you with your squad.  I also think that enough people have commented on the 3 deaths thing for people to understand it is not only my squad (or a particular side) that has issue with it.   I'm also not the only one who does not like being forced to fly for one side or the other.  I am grateful that the hosts of the server have made adjustments to it so it works better for all.  It is my wish for this server to be successful, because I think in many ways it is visionary.  Just having an online campaign at all is wonderful and I wish the hosts and our collective membership success in it's implementation.

 

Your personal attack isn't welcome, warranted or clever.   I'm not "projecting" anything.  We are not interested in overpopulating the server in our favor.  We are not interested in forcing people to change the rules - but we do give feedback - and I am well aware the hosts don't have to make use of any suggestion unless they choose to.  I have stated emphatically that before the more recent changes, I was not interested in playing a server that punishes people for playing because they didn't "win", for example, to the point they cannot play.   I don't think that is too difficult to understand, even if you don't agree with it.  

 

Your post reads like a troll.  You draw conclusions that are false and self serving.  I don't think "don't let the door hit you on the way out" can be misunderstood, nor can the tone of your post.  You respond to arguments I have never made.  I have every right to be here, and you have none to speak to other members this way, regardless if you agree with them or not.   

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

God, this argument is an endless circle jerk on IL-2 forums isn't it?  The absolute refusal to admit that ALL gunners in IL-2 are potentially just as deadly warrants only 1 honest response: Build me a boat, then cry me a river. 

 

Yes, but when that same gunner with insane skills is shooting a 12.7 caliber machine gun with laser precision that can down your plane in one hit. Even you can admit that the Germans have no equivalent in comparison. This is because their main support weapon is a 8mm rifle cartridge that requires at least five to ten rounds for possible damage. The nearest thing the Germans have in this equal large caliber support weapon regard, is the front mounted HE-111 20mm, and that is next to useless for 95% of air attacks the HE-111 will encounter. Also it takes multiple hits to down a Russian fighter versus the single hit to any of the 109's engine types to cause quick failure. Which engine failure nearly always results after any damage to the engine compartment it seems. So as you can see, it not a "refusal to admit" that people continually vocalize about, it is that the problem is greatly increased from the PE-2 due to the larger caliber and the laser pinpoint accuracy of the same AI.

Edited by Geronimo553
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51 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

Yes, but when that same gunner with insane skills is shooting a 12.7 caliber machine gun with laser precision that can down your plane in one hit. Even you can admit that the Germans have no equivalent in comparison. This is because their main support weapon is a 8mm rifle cartridge that requires at least five to ten rounds for possible damage. The nearest thing the Germans have in this equal large caliber support weapon regard, is the front mounted HE-111 20mm, and that is next to useless for 95% of air attacks the HE-111 will encounter. Also it takes multiple hits to down a Russian fighter versus the single hit to any of the 109's engine types to cause quick failure. Which engine failure nearly always results after any damage to the engine compartment it seems. So as you can see, it not a "refusal to admit" that people continually vocalize about, it is that the problem is greatly increased from the PE-2 due to the larger caliber and the laser pinpoint accuracy of the same AI.

 

On the other hand, the 12.7 caliber gun has a lot less ammo. Dance on the outer edges of the AI gunner's arc for half a minute and he'll exhaust his ammo and you'll get free shots; it takes much longer against the German bombers.

 

Every plane has its advantages and disadvantages. The He-111 can soak up even more damage than the Pe2. The Ju88 dives as well and has similar top speeds. The German bombers both carry bigger loads. Both can fly better on one engine. Defensive armament is the Pe2's strength; you don't want it to have any?

 

 

2 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

 

No one from my squad wants to stack a particular side.  All we want to do is fly with our squaddies in JG51.  You know, the same as you with your squad.  I also think that enough people have commented on the 3 deaths thing for people to understand it is not only my squad (or a particular side) that has issue with it.   I'm also not the only one who does not like being forced to fly for one side or the other.  I am grateful that the hosts of the server have made adjustments to it so it works better for all.  It is my wish for this server to be successful, because I think in many ways it is visionary.  Just having an online campaign at all is wonderful and I wish the hosts and our collective membership success in it's implementation.

 

 

 

 

In the 1946 days I flew with the 334th, the biggest squad in its day; we often split up to balance the servers we flew on. So did the 69th, another big squad; I still see them split up to keep the balance on WoL occasionally.

 

If your squad is big enough to cause a significant imbalance (6 or more at a time), why can't you split up as well?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

If your squad is big enough to cause a significant imbalance (6 or more at a time), why can't you split up as well?

 

Good question.

 

It's not like we are inflexible.  We've done it before. 

 

We are a small squad atm in Il2 BOX.  Some of our membership still fly other sims.  Our active membership here just isn't that high.  We usually have about four to six on during squad ops, with very rare exceptions where we might have like eight.  The other thing is, and this is important - Ogg is speaking as our C.O. regarding squad ops during squad nights.  Of course we like to stick together, but again, we have had several members fly allied.  Even I do it from time to time.  We do, however like to stick together as much as we can.  There usually are not that many of us on at any given time at any other point.  We would likely be in pairs or threesomes at most (just the way our numbers seem to be during non squad times).

 

Look, this isn't a problem unique to our group.  Others are affected negatively by this as well.  They've posted about it.  I wasn't the first one, nor was Ogg, and I doubt we will be the last.  Don't tell me you don't get discouraged when you can't fly for whatever side your buddies are flying on - especially if they are squad mates.  I'm sure we could split up if we wanted to, but honestly, I bought this game to fly with my friends (and maybe even make new ones).  I bet there are alot of you who did that too.  :)

 

Maybe that's part of the vision for the server - to encourage people to fly both sides - and again, that's fine.  Just sadly, it's not good for our group.  For us as individual players, it might be a fun distraction, but it likely won't become a focus for us as a squad for that reason.  And for us, that's too bad.  There's a lot to like on TAW.

 

Again, I REALLY like the concept of the server.  It's a good model in many ways.  There are some flaws though, and some of them are pretty damned impactful.  Of course, we don't have to fly here, but we love the community, the opposing squads we run up against, the mission logs, the website, etc.  Even participation in this discussion and watching the ongoing development is nice.  Hat tip to the host for taking this on in the first place.

 

Edited by JG51_Beazil

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

 

No one from my squad wants to stack a particular side.  All we want to do is fly with our squaddies in JG51.  You know, the same as you with your squad.  I also think that enough people have commented on the 3 deaths thing for people to understand it is not only my squad (or a particular side) that has issue with it.   I'm also not the only one who does not like being forced to fly for one side or the other.  I am grateful that the hosts of the server have made adjustments to it so it works better for all.  It is my wish for this server to be successful, because I think in many ways it is visionary.  Just having an online campaign at all is wonderful and I wish the hosts and our collective membership success in it's implementation.

 

Your personal attack isn't welcome, warranted or clever.   I'm not "projecting" anything.  We are not interested in overpopulating the server in our favor.  We are not interested in forcing people to change the rules - but we do give feedback - and I am well aware the hosts don't have to make use of any suggestion unless they choose to.  I have stated emphatically that before the more recent changes, I was not interested in playing a server that punishes people for playing because they didn't "win", for example, to the point they cannot play.   I don't think that is too difficult to understand, even if you don't agree with it.  

 

Your post reads like a troll.  You draw conclusions that are false and self serving.  I don't think "don't let the door hit you on the way out" can be misunderstood, nor can the tone of your post.  You respond to arguments I have never made.  I have every right to be here, and you have none to speak to other members this way, regardless if you agree with them or not.   

 

 

 

 

 

You ARE projecting. Go back and read it again. The door hit ass comment was not directed at you.

 

How you are proejecting is put a $$$ value using modern constraints on total war.

 

I invite you to re-read not just mine but other posts. You are getting them mixed up.

 

I don't care about the squads feelings who refused to side swap. My comment WAS directed at them and I stand by it. Their selfish nature drove players out. We are returning thanks to admin. Myself and another ACG member are having fun in a 109 for the first time in over 4 campaigns. Most of the die hards quit due to not wanting to play target for team stackers. They drove out from ACG at least 12 guys. We're coming back..... This is thanks to the new balance feature.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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Just now, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

You ARE projecting. Go back and read it again. The door hit ass comment was not directed at you.

 

How you are proejecting is put a $$$ value using modern constraints on total war.

 

I invite you to re-read not just mine but other posts. You are getting them mixed up.

 

I don't car about the squads feelins who refused to side swap for who my comment WAS directed at. I am in a 109 for the fist time in TAW in a 5 campaigns. This is thanks ot the new balance feature.

 

Touche

 

 I hate discussion boards sometimes - I can misinterpret things sometimes - please accept my apology for misunderstanding - it was an honest mistake.   Thank you for the clarification.  I am sorry.

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No dramas broski. I love a good debate and I never have hard feelings.

 

Come fly with us! Just have to be super careful. I've only got 2 lives left.

 

It's pretty neat how guys run for their lives now.

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One somber Soviet state funeral down.  Two to go on this map.

 

166C83E63F2C7EF12CF711480358C1786E042B66

 

But I killed the SOBs that killed me!

 

2C628BD1498AE8B3954076A77CA863DCC9FE0CEC

 

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2 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

Yes, but when that same gunner with insane skills is shooting a 12.7 caliber machine gun with laser precision that can down your plane in one hit. Even you can admit that the Germans have no equivalent in comparison. This is because their main support weapon is a 8mm rifle cartridge that requires at least five to ten rounds for possible damage. The nearest thing the Germans have in this equal large caliber support weapon regard, is the front mounted HE-111 20mm, and that is next to useless for 95% of air attacks the HE-111 will encounter. Also it takes multiple hits to down a Russian fighter versus the single hit to any of the 109's engine types to cause quick failure. Which engine failure nearly always results after any damage to the engine compartment it seems. So as you can see, it not a "refusal to admit" that people continually vocalize about, it is that the problem is greatly increased from the PE-2 due to the larger caliber and the laser pinpoint accuracy of the same AI.


Situation with gunners got worse in one of the later patches, you have to respect the rifle caliber ones as well, for both sides. The current Pe-2 series 35 in TAW has a 7.62mm shkas in the top mount for example, not the 12.7mm UBT, that one comes in Map #3 for the bomber version (now it's available as transport).

There is some sort of "killzone" which if you enter no matter the speed and angle you are very likely to get hit... and by a good burst in quick succesion, like in this video from N3croo
 

 

Now you have to be careful even against planes like the A-20 and Bf 110E which weren't really a threat before.

I hope the gunner AI gets tweaked before the B-25 comes... with those two twin .50 cal turrets with 360º traverse it will be almost suicidal to engage x.x

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


Situation with gunners got worse in one of the later patches, you have to respect the rifle caliber ones as well, for both sides. The current Pe-2 series 35 in TAW has a 7.62mm shkas in the top mount for example, not the 12.7mm UBT, that one comes in Map #3 for the bomber version (now it's available as transport).

There is some sort of "killzone" which if you enter no matter the speed and angle you are very likely to get hit... and by a good burst in quick succesion, like in this video from N3croo
 

Now you have to be careful even against planes like the A-20 and Bf 110E which weren't really a threat before.

I hope the gunner AI gets tweaked before the B-25 comes... with those two twin .50 cal turrets with 360º traverse it will be almost suicidal to engage x.x

 

 

This, 9001 times, this!

 

I have lost 3 life's to back gunners during this TAW.

 

One was to Pe-2 sawing off the wing of 110, two were high speed forward and up rear passes of 110 and Ju-88 where my pilot got sniped right when i was passing the plane at such speed that turning the gun to track would require pneumatic pistons and computer controlled stabilisation.

Heck, i once went to toilet, and left my Pe-2 on autolevel and came back to this: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=11520&name=CptSiddy

Yes, it was a ditch, but there was no one at the controls... 

 

Now, you can attribute one or two of these to bad luck, but it starts to show a pattern that is more and more undeniable. Idd like to see TAW's statistics on back gunner shot downs....

 

You have life system, you have Pe-2, you will end up with people who fly Pe-2's mainly, and then the people who have no life's. :crazy: 

 

 

300px-Phalanx_CIWS_USS_Jason_Dunham.jpg.24b3ca0f33ec7db5cc8fa609ea305bbe.jpg

Average Peshka gunner (1941, colorized)

Edited by CptSiddy
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Just a reminder about separate forums!

 

 

These are the links:

 

https://www.e-335thgr.com/taw/

 

https://www.e-335thgr.com/taw-red/


 

Spoiler

 

These are the instructions:

 

1. No open registration. Anyone who wishes to join must:

  • Register to the board http://www.e-335thgr.com/taw/ or https://www.e-335thgr.com/taw-red/
  • Send a pm in the official forum  (this one!) to me for blue team and to =FSB=Man-Yac for red forum , with  the user name and the e-mail that he used to register at blue or red forum
  • Admins will check the user names  and give permissions to view and post

 

2. After each round we can delete everything (users and/or posts) and wait for the next round!

 

 


 

 

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I am a working family man with few opportunities to play. Now, tail gunners destroy me with radar guided cannons and in 2 hours I am done for the night. Can you guys stop adding lame rules that kill the fun for gods sake! Now in order to play with my group I will have to hope they are on past my 24 hour ban and hope they all  have their lives too. Now our bans have to sink up in order for us to fly together. Come on guys. 😤

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I agree on the gunner accuracy being a bit strong and sometimes they over-reach the turret's actual traverse range. That certainly could be fixed.

 

I don't agree that the guns mounted on the gunner posts are  overpowered.  The 7.62mm Shkas fires armor piercing incendiary rounds at a rate of 1,800 rounds per minute. That's 30 bullets per second.  Not only could those bullets poke a lot of small holes into an aircraft's skin and internal structure, they could also set fire to penetrated fuel tanks, cause ammo stores on planes to explode and damage engine blocks + other less durable vital parts as well.  ie; The prop can't spin if the hub is jammed. One destroyed engine cylinder will either stop the motor or eventually stop the motor. 

 

If you have the resources, try this:   

Get a 1m long x 1/2m wide piece of sheet rock material.  Draw a pencil line widthwise at the center of the length of the board.  Place it against your knee and push down on both ends until it breaks.  Note how much pressure it took.

Take and identical piece of sheet rock and mark the center line.  This time use a drill with a 1mm wide drill bit and drill 40 holes along the center line mark from one edge to the other.  (This simulates a well-placed 2 second Shkas burst - 30rpm * 2 seconds minus some bullets to account that it shouldn't be a 100% accurate hit.)  

Press the centerline of the board against your knee until it breaks. Note how much pressure it took.  

 

Admittedly, the sheet rock board, nor the drill holes are to scale of a 110 wing vs. 7.62mm  but the concept still applies. 

 

Need I say more about whether or not multiple small caliber perforations could weaken a wing enough to essentially saw it right off?   

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16 hours ago, [TWB]Reagan-LW said:

Yeah, the PE-2 AI Gunners are super deadly, both top and bottom positions. The JU-88, HE-111 and ME-110 AI Gunners are nowhere close to being on the same lever as the PE-2. It’s a super fast twin and can take hits, unlike its German counterparts. 

 

Best way to kill PE-2’s is having two or more aircraft working together. Zoom in, hit the PE-2 from the front, sides, top and underneath, etc. Being offset 45* (high or low) works well, especially if you have 2 or more aircraft making passes on it. 

 

We (Flight of three 109E7’s) knocked out 3 of them in one sortie last night. Have to be disciplined with the tactics though. Can’t target fixate or their gunners will tat you up.  Two or more fighters slowly chipping away on a Pe-2 works.. Forcing them to maneuver and get slow seems to work the best so far. 

 

The Pe-2 is still a tough aircraft to shoot down, even with two or more aircraft working together. Engaging a Pe-2 solo in TAW is a gamble with a lot of risk involved. 

 

Working as a team without worrying about who gets credit for the kill is the best way to destroy these bombers.

 

One of the best qualities of TAW is the emphasis on teamwork. It’s not about individual stats, it’s about the entire team working together to win a map. 

 

Cheers

Honestly the last 3 Pe2s Ive attacjed online Ive gotten killed by gunners in the process. I wont even engage anymore unless its a high speed one off lol

Christ though a lot is teamwork.  I gunned down a il2 on taw and he had squadmates obv cuz soon Im taking fire. Thought a i16 got me - nahh shot down by an il2

Last night in a La5 a Fw puts its lights on.im like f him well after a long chase i get greedy and ya he led me right over his field. Flak trap.

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6 hours ago, StG77_Jeeves_ said:

One somber Soviet state funeral down.  Two to go on this map.

 

166C83E63F2C7EF12CF711480358C1786E042B66

 

But I killed the SOBs that killed me!

 

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Don't worry Jeeves, we took the porn out of your footlocker, HvB stole your clean socks and we'll all go around and make sure your wife is okay on a regular basis. No need to thank us bro, that's what squad mates are for :)

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

I agree on the gunner accuracy being a bit strong and sometimes they over-reach the turret's actual traverse range. That certainly could be fixed.

 

I don't agree that the guns mounted on the gunner posts are  overpowered.  The 7.62mm Shkas fires armor piercing incendiary rounds at a rate of 1,800 rounds per minute. That's 30 bullets per second.  Not only could those bullets poke a lot of small holes into an aircraft's skin and internal structure, they could also set fire to penetrated fuel tanks, cause ammo stores on planes to explode and damage engine blocks + other less durable vital parts as well.  ie; The prop can't spin if the hub is jammed. One destroyed engine cylinder will either stop the motor or eventually stop the motor. 

 

If you have the resources, try this:   

Get a 1m long x 1/2m wide piece of sheet rock material.  Draw a pencil line widthwise at the center of the length of the board.  Place it against your knee and push down on both ends until it breaks.  Note how much pressure it took.

Take and identical piece of sheet rock and mark the center line.  This time use a drill with a 1mm wide drill bit and drill 40 holes along the center line mark from one edge to the other.  (This simulates a well-placed 2 second Shkas burst - 30rpm * 2 seconds minus some bullets to account that it shouldn't be a 100% accurate hit.)  

Press the centerline of the board against your knee until it breaks. Note how much pressure it took.  

 

Admittedly, the sheet rock board, nor the drill holes are to scale of a 110 wing vs. 7.62mm  but the concept still applies. 

 

Need I say more about whether or not multiple small caliber perforations could weaken a wing enough to essentially saw it right off?   

 

 

Man, ive shot 8mm aluminum  sheets with 7.62, and even a 45 degree angle makes the bullet keyhole and dump majority of its energy to the plate. 

You need a really good, flat angle shot to do damage to engine block or oil pan. Most damage that was caused by MG caliber were line leaks, and radiator leaks. Not a catastrophic structural damage that requires total destruction of 3 spars. If 7.62 were able to do that with same frequency as in this game, spit would never drop the 7.7 in favor of 50 cals and 20's.

Edited by CptSiddy

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1 hour ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

Man, ive shot 8mm aluminum  sheets with 7.62, and even a 45 degree angle makes the bullet keyhole and dump majority of its energy to the plate. 

You need a really good, flat angle shot to do damage to engine block or oil pan. Most damage that was caused by MG caliber were line leaks, and radiator leaks. Not a catastrophic structural damage that requires total destruction of 3 spars. If 7.62 were able to do that with same frequency as in this game, spit would never drop the 7.7 in favor of 50 cals and 20's.

 This begs the questions:

What type(s) of weapon(s) did you fire from? 

What was the composition of the bullet that was being fired? 

Were you:

a). stationary vs. a stationary target,

b). stationary vs. a moving target or, 

c). moving vs, a moving target?

 

If you, the target, or both were moving, what was your and/or the target's relative course of travel in relation to each other? 

What was the speed yourself and the target were traveling in relation to each other? 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 This begs the questions:

What type(s) of weapon(s) did you fire from? 

What was the composition of the bullet that was being fired? 

Were you:

a). stationary vs. a stationary target,

b). stationary vs. a moving target or, 

c). moving vs, a moving target?

 

If you, the target, or both were moving, what was your and/or the target's relative course of travel in relation to each other? 

What was the speed yourself and the target were traveling in relation to each other? 

 

 

Does not matter at all, because:

 

The relative speed of the planes are so small that it wont matter in tail chase situation. 

Only the angle of incidence, bullets relative velocity to target and the bullets spin wobble. Now, i doubt the 7.62mm family ever had shell with ballistic soft cap meant for normalization, so if it was AP or normal lead core matters little when it comes to angle of attack other than steel core AP rounds were lighter.  You will get serious keyholling striking trough the metal plate that is >45 deg, meaning the ammo is dumping more of its energy to break the skin and tumbling. This means that it will be impacting anything behind it sideways or arse first. Any soft stuff, like lines and pipes will get messed up but any hard stuff like what engine blocks are made of can take hits like that without damage. 

 

Like i said, there is reason why small arms cartridges were phased out from aerial combat, even tho you could potentially load up more of them and get substantially higher RoF. 

Edited by CptSiddy
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3 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Yeah I've got to change my username to register for the other side, that's a pita.

All you have to do is make the changes to your username and click update. We just added “-LW” to our Axis TAW profiles, makes it quick and easy. 

 

Waiting 600 seconds to change teams (for server balance) is the only downside  :)

Really not that big of a deal though. 

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Just flew a sortie on TAW with two other Pe-2s. We hit an airfield at dusk and got bounced and none of our gunners fired or even manned their guns. I had time to re-order them to fire several times but they just sat there. Can anyone think of a reason why? The only thing I can come up with is it was getting dark. Anyone else had this problem? It's the second time it's happened to me this campaign.

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