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Tactical Air War

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3 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Pachemu? Net, tam net logicheskoij svja3i.

Est', samaya pryamaya. Pochemu nikogo v igre ne udivlyayut raznye samolety, no udivlyayut raznye zenitki? 

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I'd like one good reason why you allow chute killing in here because having 3 lives isn't bad enough, then you have to worry about =LG= losers killing you in your chute like little girls with no skill.

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50 minutes ago, =AVG77=REDMAN said:

I'd like one good reason why you allow chute killing in here because having 3 lives isn't bad enough, then you have to worry about =LG= losers killing you in your chute like little girls with no skill.

 

I don’t mind it, it’s another element to the game, you have to weigh the odds of going down with your plane vs getting shot in your chute.

 

It would be nice though if there was one button for ejecting and another for deploying the parachute; potential chute-shooters may not want to lose 2000m of altitude or may even lose sight of a body dropping without a chute

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Little girls do not kill chutes. Little girls cry on the forum that they were chute killed.

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I'm glad you like it. 

3 minutes ago, =LG=Padre said:

Little girls do not kill chutes. Little girls cry on the forum that they were chute killed.

I see you guessed what that meant.

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The same discussion every bloody campaign. 🤮 I'm not a fan of chute killing myself but it's a reality of this server, and part of the winning strategy itself, because pilot lives are a resource.

If you do not want to participate in this kind of gameplay, just don't play on the server. There's no use in having this discussion over and over again, since the admins have made their position on this very clear and it's not likely to change.

Just let it go, people. It's the deadest of horses you're beating here and no amount of proclaiming your internet virtue will make an impact on that. 

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I think we should make a poll over this chutkilling... And the Result taking as a Rule! 

Btw:I was chut killt too and my Mate too from =SS=Squad

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On 5/21/2019 at 12:23 AM, =LG=Coldman said:

I just put 120 he 20mm bullets in almost one pass and was lucky. 

You want to say that now it is something wrong when your peshka aimbot is not working? ;) 

 

No, I was saying that if you make a fast and precise pass, you can take down the Peshka.

But if you make a 10 senconds pass, you get too exposed, and you get killed ;)

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1 minute ago, JG4_Widukind said:

I think we should make a poll over this chutkilling... And the Result taking as a Rule! 

Btw:I was chut killt too and my Mate too from =SS=Squad

 

What would the poll be?   Something like:

If I created my own dedicated server, with my own missions, and made a rule about no chutekilling, would you play on it with me?

YES

NO

MAYBE

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Better let this rest guys, it's not going to change.

 

Better use your energy to plan strikes, raids, strategy. Discipline your inner Hartmann, and scissor super hard before you jump - makes it much harder to lose the chute. 

 

Wiser words have never been spoken

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If there has been an increase in chute killing it should come as no surprise, with limited lives there is an incentive to do it. 

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2 hours ago, =AVG77=REDMAN said:

I'd like one good reason why you allow chute killing in here because having 3 lives isn't bad enough, then you have to worry about =LG= losers killing you in your chute like little girls with no skill.

1.) Looks like you gave yourself that, “One good reason.” 

 

2.) Get a hold of yourself.. It’s embarrassing 

 

3.) It’s just a video game. 

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1 hour ago, JG4_Widukind said:

I think we should make a poll over this chutkilling... And the Result taking as a Rule! 

Btw:I was chut killt too and my Mate too from =SS=Squad

Why not? 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, JG4_Widukind said:

Why not? 

Because the admins stated multiple times that they will not forbid chute killing and do it themselves very openly. I mean yes, you can make that poll, but without the admins openly saying that they will bow to the majority on this, which they never did, it's pointless. 

Edited by Etherlight

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As has been stated/asked before, if the “end of mission” counter was reduced from 15 seconds to 3-5 seconds, this conversation probably wouldn’t be taking place, as there’s be little time to spot, track and shoot someone in a chute before their sortie ended.  I was one of those re-asking to reduce the timer given the 3 lives per map change (I.e. in that lives are even more “precious” than before).

 

However, since this timer has never been reduced by the administrators of the server, it’s clear that they aren’t actively preventing it from happening, so it is what it is...

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33 minutes ago, =AVG77=REDMAN said:

I don't care how many times it's been talked about if you don't like it don't read it. 

Don't like it? Don't play it. See? Cheap argument, but kinda funny that we wouldn't have this pointless discussion again if you'd followed your own line of thinking before.

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My 2 cents on chutekilling (sorry to be that guy) :  The better you fly, the less of a chance there is you'll even be in the 'chute in the first place with the risk of being shot at.  End of story. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, 72AG_Obi said:

This is for TAW developers.

Interesting observation. During the flight, I accidentally shot friendly, just a couple bullets, nothing major, he got home safely.

Then later during the same sortie, another friendly shot me down so I needed to bail out as my plane was teared apart. He apologized so no hard feeling... 

But annoying part is that after I bailed out, I lost (of course) my plane, points and even got penalty for 8 mins. I don't think it makes any sense!

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=26552&name=72AG_Obi

 

 

I'll have to agree with Obi, I was actually the one who accidentally shot him down. There needs to be a system implemented if you shoot down a friendly, you're instantly kicked for however much time. It was unfair that i got to keep flying and he did not. I can't remember which server has this system but it does work. Obi, if I could gift you a yak when I acquired one, I would lol.

 

Funny story though. There were about 6-7 Ju88 in a formation, we had a few allied fighters in the area. We got them confused and they started bombing their own defensive position. I thought it was ours at the time, so when flak started shooting at obi, I instantly fired at him without confirming the ID. Turns out the germans bombed the hell out of their own target and I shot down a friendly as a result. It was a just a big confusion lol.   

Edited by II./JG77_HankDG
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27 minutes ago, II./JG77_HankDG said:

 

I'll have to agree with Obi, I was actually the one who accidentally shot him down. There needs to be a system implemented if you shoot down a friendly, you're instantly kicked for however much time. It was unfair that i got to keep flying and he did not. I can't remember which server has this system but it does work. Obi, if I could gift you a yak when I acquired one, I would lol.

 

Funny story though. There were about 6-7 Ju88 in a formation, we had a few allied fighters in the area. We got them confused and they started bombing their own defensive position. I thought it was ours at the time, so when flak started shooting at obi, I instantly fired at him without confirming the ID. Turns out the germans bombed the hell out of their own target and I shot down a friendly as a result. It was a just a big confusion lol.   

That was funny. Well played by you guys. That engagement was super confusing lol. Both Russian & German positions very close to one another and we got turned around. Felt like we were in a turkey shoot right when we were arriving in the target area. 

 

Definitely a first. 😂

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1 hour ago, [TWB]Reagan-LW said:

That was funny. Well played by you guys. That engagement was super confusing lol. Both Russian & German positions very close to one another and we got turned around. Felt like we were in a turkey shoot right when we were arriving in the target area. 

 

Definitely a first. 😂

 

It was comical, my wingman was pissed because he thought he got shot down by friendly AA. You guys did a lot of damage though! Good target practice!

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5 minutes ago, II./JG77_HankDG said:

 

It was comical, my wingman was pissed because he thought he got shot down by friendly AA. You guys did a lot of damage though! Good target practice!

Had a weird gut feeling once you guys rolled in. My left engine was on fire, ended up dying trying to get back to friendly territory instead of bailing out. Mission ended with “0, friendly fire.”  

 

Only thing I could do was laugh. Definitely not one of our best moments, but it was exciting. 

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Could someone with better knowledge please explain this to me...

 

I was using a Pe-2 87, ran a successful bombing run, never appeared to be hit, or take any damage that I was aware of, then proceeded to RTB and land so comfortably that I ran a pattern to let other traffic land first. I was credited with 6 GK and +1CM for the mission

 

But when I went to fly in the Pe-2 87 immediately after I got a server message saying that I couldn't use it and if I did I would be kicked?

 

So I checked the TAW site and cannot make sense of what happened http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=29531&name=Pict

 

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15 minutes ago, Pict said:

Could someone with better knowledge please explain this to me...

 

I was using a Pe-2 87, ran a successful bombing run, never appeared to be hit, or take any damage that I was aware of, then proceeded to RTB and land so comfortably that I ran a pattern to let other traffic land first. I was credited with 6 GK and +1CM for the mission

 

But when I went to fly in the Pe-2 87 immediately after I got a server message saying that I couldn't use it and if I did I would be kicked?

 

So I checked the TAW site and cannot make sense of what happened http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=29531&name=Pict

 

 

According to the sortie list of events, your planes was damaged more than 30% so it has to be repaired by the ground crew.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Pict said:

Could someone with better knowledge please explain this to me...

 

I was using a Pe-2 87, ran a successful bombing run, never appeared to be hit, or take any damage that I was aware of, then proceeded to RTB and land so comfortably that I ran a pattern to let other traffic land first. I was credited with 6 GK and +1CM for the mission

 

But when I went to fly in the Pe-2 87 immediately after I got a server message saying that I couldn't use it and if I did I would be kicked?

 

So I checked the TAW site and cannot make sense of what happened http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=29531&name=Pict

 

I Think that  you were damage by your own  bomb and this bomb killed one of your gunner. I tell you becouse it happedt to me once. ¿Maybe?

 

Edited by E69_Gote

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

According to the sortie list of events, your planes was damaged more than 30% so it has to be repaired by the ground crew.


That seems logical, thanks.

 

But the odd thing is that I don't recall any damage happening and the log stated twice that I received 100% damage in one go. You would think that you would notice 100% damage to the point that your plane would drop out of the sky :) 

 

2 hours ago, E69_Gote said:

I Think that  you were damage by your own  bomb and this bomb killed one of your gunner. I tell you becouse it happedt to me once. ¿Maybe?

 

 

I was using a 10 second bomb delay, so I doubt if it was that as I was well clear and looking back when the bombs went off. I was flying pretty low over some radio antenna at the site, so I might have tagged one of them...who knows?...thanks anyhow :) 

 

===============

 

Edit; It must have been a glitch of some sort, as the Pe-2 87 reappeared in my hangar without me doing anything positive to deserve it...either that or the mechanics worked their lunch break :)

Edited by Pict
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2 hours ago, Pict said:

 

 

Edit; It must have been a glitch of some sort, as the Pe-2 87 reappeared in my hangar without me doing anything positive to deserve it...either that or the mechanics worked their lunch break :)

*greasy, half-starved Soviet aircraft mechanic pops his head out from under an engine nacelle* "Tovarisch, what is a 'lunch break'?"

 

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Posted (edited)

I've been flying Pe-2's a fair bit recently and I would like to, if not dispel the myth that seems to float around the forum that the Pe-2 is impossible to kill and magically kills anyone attacking it, at the least offer some evidence to the contrary :) 

 

I was recently shot down in a Pe-2 by no less than 3 Luftwaffe fighters, who all put plenty holes in me, and my AI gunners put some holes in them, but never downed one of them.

 

I somehow managed to survive the crash only to be captured.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=24569&name=Pict

 

So much for the Pe-2 being the UFO with laser gunners many seem to want us to believe it is ;)

 

7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

*greasy, half-starved Soviet aircraft mechanic pops his head out from under an engine nacelle* "Tovarisch, what is a 'lunch break'?"

 

 

That'd be about right for my mechanics with the way I've been flying today :) 

Edited by Pict
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1 minute ago, Pict said:

I've been flying Pe-2's a fair bit recently and I would like to, if not dispel the myth that seems to float around the forum that the Pe-2 is impossible to kill and magically kills anyone attacking it, at the least offer some evidence to the contrary :) 

 

I was recently shot down in a Pe2 by no less than 3 Luftwaffe fighters, who all put plenty holes in me, and my AI gunners put some holes in them, but never downed one of them.

 

I somehow managed to survive the crash only to be captured.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=24569&name=Pict

 

So much for the Pe-2 being the UFO with laser gunners many seem to want us to believe it is ;)

My experience is the same. 100% of my encounters when flying in a Pe-2 are fatal for me, much fewer are fatal for my enemies.

If you lose an engine in a Pe-2 you're screwed unless you're close to a friendly airfield. Most of the times my gunners get kills are when fighters come around for a second, riskier pass when I'm already a dead man flying. 

Axis guys: it's not rocket science, open up at long range at high deflection aiming for one engine. if you see smoke of any kind, its dead sooner or later, leave it be. Or keep attacking and get a facefull of the ol' berezhin 12.7mm, no skin off my nose. 

Honestly the only reason to keep attacking is to make sure no one 'steals' your kill. 

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17 hours ago, Etherlight said:

just don't play on the server.

 

Good idea, solves all the issues. 

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Posted (edited)

 

23 hours ago, [TWB]Pand-LW said:

 

What would the poll be?   Something like:

If I created my own dedicated server, with my own missions, and made a rule about no chutekilling, would you play on it with me?

YES

NO

MAYBE

 

YES.

 

Chutekilling, though legal on this server, still presents number of issues, here is few:

a) no map in History of TAW has been won by number of pilots running out - even though it's legitimate target, it's a really bad excuse!

b) bad sportsmanship - you have already won - why be a-hole about it?

c) chute killing discourages new players to join the community - and community needs those for this game to survive financially. This community does not have millions of players!

d) community - chute killing creates bad blood inside community

 

What I found unbelievable during last campaign that people were calling X-jammer for bad sportsmanship - the same people who like to shoot helpless players in chutes...

My opinion.

 

Some further thoughts...

 

Have you never been grateful that your adversary allowed you to bail, or to ditch you broken bird? I have, and I Salute those pilots and their sportsmanship!

 

If not, think what the server would be like if everybody - literally - would start killing pilots in chutes systematically? Maybe we should try that for taste in next campaign... though I suspect it could kill the server.

Edited by FinGIAP_Kessuchkin
adding further thoughts
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22 hours ago, AKA_Relent said:

As has been stated/asked before, if the “end of mission” counter was reduced from 15 seconds to 3-5 seconds, this conversation probably wouldn’t be taking place, as there’s be little time to spot, track and shoot someone in a chute before their sortie ended.  I was one of those re-asking to reduce the timer given the 3 lives per map change (I.e. in that lives are even more “precious” than before).

 

However, since this timer has never been reduced by the administrators of the server, it’s clear that they aren’t actively preventing it from happening, so it is what it is...

 

22 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

My 2 cents on chutekilling (sorry to be that guy) :  The better you fly, the less of a chance there is you'll even be in the 'chute in the first place with the risk of being shot at.  End of story. 

 

 

Even if the TAW devs refuse to lower the timer of despawning or if they don't render the act illegal, I want to convey that the current 15 seconds offered still provides ample time for one to despawn and therefore not get killed. 

 

In order for the enemy to kill the parachute he has to turn back after shooting you down and then fly to you, all in all, that will usually take 15+ seconds. Now if he had a buddy coming to do a follow up "clean up" (I wouldn't even know why you'd need to do that) but that guy still has to determine WHEN you actually jump out and that's a guessing game in it's own.  On a multicrew A/C, the enemy's chances of killing the pilot are further reduced because he needs to guess who are the Gunners and who's the pilot.  Although PK is generally frowned upon, that's all it is, something frowned upon but totally allowed. 

 

As for the guy getting shot down, and I know you are probably guilty of this, but after you parachute just don't linger around and "spycam" where the enemy is now headed or w.e.  as long as you linger you are still in danger.  That's on you.  Finish Mission ASAP,  that's really the best you can do for yourself in that situation. Minimize the time he has to be put guns on you

 

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2 hours ago, FinGIAP_Kessuchkin said:

 

 

YES.

 

Chutekilling, though legal on this server, still presents number of issues, here is few:

a) no map in History of TAW has been won by number of pilots running out - even though it's legitimate target, it's a really bad excuse!

b) bad sportsmanship - you have already won - why be a-hole about it?

c) chute killing discourages new players to join the community - and community needs those for this game to survive financially. This community does not have millions of players!

d) community - chute killing creates bad blood inside community.

 

Yes as well.  I'd fly a server with a no chute killing rule - provided it was a good server, with good missions and plane sets. 

                       I'd prefer that chute killing was not a "banned action", but if the server with the "no CK" rules was the superior server, I'd go there instead. 

                       I say this even though I don't chute kill as part of my combat style.

 

That said:  

 

a) On TAW,  chutes are a legitimate target.  Why one would choose to shoot at chutes is on them.  Trying to figure out someone else's motives is mostly pointless.  Some may believe it is tactical.  Some might be looking to do some trolling.  Some might think the concept is both tactical and trolling, and get their jollies off of that.

 

b)  As a player, I can only offer good sportsmanship.  I find it totally unrealistic to expect that because I employ good sportsmanship, others must automatically do the same. If others think they're so special as to dictate the behavior of others by their mere presence...… good luck with that.  If someone cites me as an example to follow, then it is a bonus - one that I'm grateful for - but still nothing more than a bonus.

 

Asking someone prone to chute killing "You've already won. Why be an A-hole about it?" usually fuels the  person asked to do more.  They perpetually aggravate your question without answering constantly getting fuel from your salt.  Instead,  I look at it as "shit happens" and move on.  I don't get baited into asking "why?" to someone looking for a reason to keep you asking "why?" until you show frustration  and give them further fuel.      

 

c) TAW is the very definition of  "GIT GUUD" server.  Given that it's one of few - with many more intermediate and easy servers to choose from,  that's quite alright. It's not like it's the only option. There are other servers where new players can find others to learn from or learn on their own without TAW-like penalties. 

 

I seriously doubt that with almost every server allowing chute killing, it's going to cause a "noob-pocalypse" and choke off the incoming stream of new players. 

Games that only require a console-type controller and where people act a LOT worse in multiplayer are more of a threat to the business side of things than whether or not a historically accurate risk one takes every time  they start a sortie, such as chute killing, is allowed.   

 

d) I personally don't feel any bad blood towards anybody that disagrees with me.  I'm not that sensitive, nor do I expect others to bow to my hurt feelings.  There's only one side of this argument that harbors "bad blood".  The rest of us don't give a f=ck. 

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9 hours ago, FinGIAP_Kessuchkin said:

 

 

If not, think what the server would be like if everybody - literally - would start killing pilots in chutes systematically? Maybe we should try that for taste in next campaign... though I suspect it could kill the server.

 

Yes, but think what the server would look like if nobody chute killed! Then the sportsmanship of the act would lose its value and no one could feel superior for not doing it!

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What can be done if you have made a successful mission, 2 ground kills in this case, and a successful RTB that is shown in the mission log, but you are not credited for any of it?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=31708&name=Pict

 

I had just landed when the server stopped, so that might have something to do with it.

 

Having a heap of fun as usual on TAW, and really like the new rules :cool:

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

In order for the enemy to kill the parachute he has to turn back after shooting you down and then fly to you, all in all, that will usually take 15+ seconds. Now if he had a buddy coming to do a follow up "clean up" (I wouldn't even know why you'd need to do that) but that guy still has to determine WHEN you actually jump out and that's a guessing game in it's own.  On a multicrew A/C, the enemy's chances of killing the pilot are further reduced because he needs to guess who are the Gunners and who's the pilot.  Although PK is generally frowned upon, that's all it is, something frowned upon but totally allowed. 

 

Its typically many vs many situation and seems that some manage to run around very tight and come back within the 15 second window.

 

9 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Yes as well.  I'd fly a server with a no chute killing rule - provided it was a good server, with good missions and plane sets. 

                       I'd prefer that chute killing was not a "banned action", but if the server with the "no CK" rules was the superior server, I'd go there instead. 

                       I say this even though I don't chute kill as part of my combat style.

 

That said:  

 

a) On TAW,  chutes are a legitimate target.  Why one would choose to shoot at chutes is on them.  Trying to figure out someone else's motives is mostly pointless.  Some may believe it is tactical.  Some might be looking to do some trolling.  Some might think the concept is both tactical and trolling, and get their jollies off of that.

 

b)  As a player, I can only offer good sportsmanship.  I find it totally unrealistic to expect that because I employ good sportsmanship, others must automatically do the same. If others think they're so special as to dictate the behavior of others by their mere presence...… good luck with that.  If someone cites me as an example to follow, then it is a bonus - one that I'm grateful for - but still nothing more than a bonus.

 

Asking someone prone to chute killing "You've already won. Why be an A-hole about it?" usually fuels the  person asked to do more.  They perpetually aggravate your question without answering constantly getting fuel from your salt.  Instead,  I look at it as "shit happens" and move on.  I don't get baited into asking "why?" to someone looking for a reason to keep you asking "why?" until you show frustration  and give them further fuel.      

...

 

As said - I'm just voicing my opinion. I used to have more "shit happens and move on" attitude on this, but in recent environment with 3 lives and chute shooting getting more regular I feel it's important to say: It's not Okay!

 

Staying silent is a silent approval for chute shooting.

 

BTW - 3 lives rule has no affect on killing flak from the airfields - why it was introduced in the first place... what's the point then?

And while on this topic - how about giving back say 0.1 lives for every CM? Would take 30 CM's to earn 3 lives back... Good idea/Bad Idea?

 

Edited by FinGIAP_Kessuchkin
typo fix

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I have reported the AA bugs to the devs. Let's hope they will fix it as soon as possible. 

 

6 minutes ago, Pict said:

What can be done if you have made a successful mission, 2 ground kills in this case, and a successful RTB that is shown in the mission log, but you are not credited for any of it?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=31708&name=Pict

 

I had just landed when the server stopped, so that might have something to do with it.

 

Having a heap of fun as usual on TAW, and really like the new rules :cool:

Why should you be credited for it? Please check number of your friendly ground kills in the stats.

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