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Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)
3 часа назад, Operatsiya_Ivy сказал:

I know i am repeating myself but as long as there is no way to effectively predict a large scale attack there won't be anything anyone can do to stop the meta we currently "enjoy"

I know there are some few settlements on the routes that include some trucks, AAAs and 2 tanks that can be considered as a radar. Is it possible once the planes fly over it to highlight them and show how many planes above passing by and their course?

They stay invisible and hidden before they are spotted so they can be used as an intel mechanism/notification of incoming attack.

42 минуты назад, Norz сказал:

 

Please publish the whole list what is not allowed to do. Because now it is a solo attack on an enemy AF, after that you will ask something else. One question. Why do you not attack solo the enemy AF? Just do it, like he does.

 

The only problem that we have is the outnumbered blue team. Solve the issue and no one will risk to attack the enemy FA at all (solo).

It's been spoken out that AFs and Depots are the strategic targets that should be real hard to attack and survive after the attack no matter if it's a solo or group attack. Devs tried to protect them but it didn't work out well enough to support their words so people like xJammer started exploiting it right away.

Reds don't do it probably because they try to play as in the simulation game, no arcade one in order to feel the spirit of the war in the air. Our squad doesn't do it because we count each pilot live and each pilot kill means we made a mistake and we need to avoid it as much as possible. That's how it's supposed to be in a real life and that's why we follow this way in the game which I believe is the proper way. Same with the belly landing... xJammer looks at the game from a completely different perspective. TAW server is made to reflect the real air war as close as possible, and many pilots fly on it for the very same purpose because they share the devs' vision.

Good thing he finds the flaws, bad thing he uses the flaws to get an advantage and continues using them as devs can't react immediately to force him to stop it.

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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23 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

Reds don't do it probably because they try to play as in the simulation game, no arcade one in order to feel the spirit of the war in the air. Our squad doesn't do it because we count each pilot live and each pilot kill means we made a mistake and we need to avoid it as much as possible.

 

We do it (on the red side). Do you want to limit us also? Ok, no problem. Finally it will be the same as at WOL, no bombs for the fighters, nothing.

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I think when it boils down to it TAW is glorified roleplay for a lot of the people who participate in it - but for some it's just a competition. The two different attitudes are destined to butt heads no matter what.

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Posted (edited)
15 минут назад, Norz сказал:

 

We do it (on the red side). Do you want to limit us also? Ok, no problem. Finally it will be the same as at WOL, no bombs for the fighters, nothing.

I have already posted my observation on xJammer's 4 consequent sorties when he was able to vanish all AAAs on one AF. I saw him flying alone after and above the AF kept shooting at different objects on the AF making a huge damage by himself in 109 as well as trying to kill all newly spawn planes on the AF. If you think it's normal then fine. I don't think other people will agree with you as well as the TAW devs. I consider it as a flaw and whoever uses it just hacking the balance mechanism to get an advantage. I wouldn't mind to switch to another server where it would not be possible, but there is none. Plus devs agree that's not right, they can't just fix it quick.

Norz... I hope you do understand that TAW is not a commercial product, the devs are enthusiast who have limited resources and can't polish the server and make it perfect. That's why we have some gentlemen rules what is allowed or not. Devs try to run the server so that people can enjoy the campaign. They do it for people and expect us to support them. Instead people like xJammer uses this approach for his own benefits and some sick selfish mentality probably just to fulfill his ego to be the best and the one person who made the most contribution in winning this campaign.

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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47 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

 

Norz...  I hope you do understand that TAW is not a commercial product, the devs are enthusiast who have limited resources and can't polish the server and make it perfect. That's why we have some gentlemen rules what is allowed or not. 

 

I played about 6..7 TAWs and heard about "gentlement rules " first time 2 weeks ago. As i said ...publish the rules and we will follow them.

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37 minutes ago, AirshowDisaster said:

I think when it boils down to it TAW is glorified roleplay for a lot of the people who participate in it - but for some it's just a competition. The two different attitudes are destined to butt heads no matter what.

 

No it is about playing a simulation in a semi competitive environment. Nothing more nothing less.

 

The only attitude that is causing issues here is that certain people treat TAW as some sort of e-sport game, which certainly it is not. 

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30 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

No it is about playing a simulation in a semi competitive environment. Nothing more nothing less.

The only attitude that is causing issues here is that certain people treat TAW as some sort of e-sport game, which certainly it is not. 

 

I see no problems here. If it is not important for you to win, what is the problem? You can simulate your high attitude flying over the depots (or low or whatever).

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31 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

I played about 6..7 TAWs and heard about "gentlement rules " first time 2 weeks ago. As i said ...publish the rules and we will follow them.

 

Norz, are you saying you need a list of hundreds of rules? Or can you use your own brain a little? If Kathon was to create a list of rules for xjammer not to do, he would be writing them forever, you don’t need rules to know that something’s wrong, or your not playing the server in the spirit it should be, if you seriously think you do need things spelling out to you in black and white then maybe this servers not for you.

 

Rule 1) don’t exploit the game or server

Rule 2) don’t exploit the game or server 

Rule 3) don’t exploit the game or server 

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1 minute ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

Norz, are you saying you need a list of hundreds of rules? Or can you use your own brain a little? If Kathon was to create a list of rules for xjammer not to do, he would be writing them forever, you don’t need rules to know that something’s wrong, or your not playing the server in the spirit it should be, if you seriously think you do need things spelling out to you in black and white then maybe this servers not for you.

 

Rule 1) don’t exploit the game or server

Rule 2) don’t exploit the game or server 

Rule 3) don’t exploit the game or server 

 

Just to clarify... Distance 500m..can i shoot or not...What about 600m? Yes or not. Seems that some players will describe it like an exploit. I will do it, for sure. But if i can do the same, it is totally OK for me.

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1 minute ago, Norz said:

 

I see no problems here. If it is not important for you to win, what is the problem? You can simulate your high attitude flying over the depots (or low or whatever).

 

Because Esports games are balanced, and this isn’t, what is wrong with you? Why argue with everything? 

 

Are there consistently more blues? Yes or no?

 

does that make for a fun and fair campaign for both sides? Yes or no?

 

should the server be exploited and gamed just because there are no rules written about the underhand method or tactic? Yes or no?

 

is this server about win at all costs, in anyway possible, or is it about trying to recreate a semi historic, semi realistic campaign through the limited resources the devs have available?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

Because Esports games are balanced, and this isn’t, what is wrong with you? Why argue with everything? 

 

Are there consistently more blues? Yes or no?

 

does that make for a fun and fair campaign for both sides? Yes or no?

 

should the server be exploited and gamed just because there are no rules written about the underhand method or tactic? Yes or no?

 

is this server about win at all costs, in anyway possible, or is it about trying to recreate a semi historic, semi realistic campaign through the limited resources the devs have available?

 

We fly both side, just do the same and you will see it is totally OK. We lost a lot of times, i see no problem with that. As i said at least 2..3 times before, some changes should be done to make it much harder to attack an airfield SOLO (Don't know how it is possible, i will not attack the AF alone, too dangerous). But i see no reason to deny it for a group (or solo) players. To be clear, if i am on the server and someone (alone) will attack my airfield below me, i will decide that it is an easy kill. And USUALLY there are 1..2 reds over the field, waiting for the bombers. This time we do not have them because the blue team is OUTNUMBERED. This is the problem, and it was like this almost all prev. TAWs.

 

Limit functionality works perfect, just need one step more to kick the player by the name (do not allow to enter into the server, if 44..48 blue/red players are already there).

Edited by Norz

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

Not sure why you would blame 1C/777, yes maybe the aircraft matchups for each Battle Of title aren't the most balanced, but then again, that's not their fault either - they chose certain aircraft types to model to represent those periods of the war (can't appease everyone).  Early war, the German aircraft (specifically fighter aircraft) outperformed the Russian aircraft.  IMO that's probably why not many want to fly on the Russian side in TAW, especially the first few maps.  Not until the 5th or 6th map through the end of the campaign, when the Russian aircraft performance starts to close the gap on the respective German aircraft do we expect to see higher numbers on the Russian side.

 

So you are saying 1. It's not the developers fault, it's the fact that no one wants to fly crappy early VVS aircraft is the cause of the TAW lopsidedness ?

                                 2. You disagree with me that it has nothing to do with the Battle titles - thus  if this were the Battle of Britain, the Allied side would have the same issues? I politely disagree with you.   

 

Everything else you said - isn't feasible because the admin isn't limiting numbers to simulate history, nor should they. If you want to fly RED - that's your choice, in as much as it's my choice not to.                  

 

 

 

Edited by JG7_X-Man

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13 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

If you want to fly RED - that's your choice, in as much as it's my choice not to.                  

 

 

 

 

And if no one chooses to? 

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I don't know if TAW is the best server or not, but the level of complaining is higher than all the other servers combined. The hostile opinions about opponents and the general angst and anger is unparalleled on other servers. I guess that is "the spirit of TAW" that we can hear of every now and then.

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37 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

I don't know if TAW is the best server or not, but the level of complaining is higher than all the other servers combined. The hostile opinions about opponents and the general angst and anger is unparalleled on other servers. I guess that is "the spirit of TAW" that we can hear of every now and then.


There is a lot more at stake: winning a map vs. the whole campaign!

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37 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

And if no one chooses to? 

 

Economics 101, Supply and Demand will always be there, the issue is % of disequilibrium.

For our conversion - there will always someone to fly Axis or Allied in an online campaign, the question is - the % of balance.

 

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I really enjoyed the previous TAW, but this one I abandoned quickly, almost right from the start. Somehow red TS was always empty and VVS got massively outnumbered even in the NA time. I guess the reason is that a lot of people I played along during the previous campaign switched sides this time. For them I have this message:

tenor.gif

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On 3/9/2019 at 12:43 PM, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

Heh, last campaign or the one before the same happened to a friend of mine.  Then one of the LW guys posted a video of the "daring raid" on the airfield from a fixed view camera.  Since my friend was the only aircraft left to target, it was ~4 minutes of him being strafed by ~12 aircraft drifting lazily in and out of view over and over even though he died before he loaded in.

 

It was p. funny.

 actually lol'd

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Posted (edited)

Probably blues want us to get into the large groups and start attacking their fields as well. Such a nice solution to the problem. Let's do little "Berloga" fights over each other fields. Such a great idea and way to play the campaign))) First side who would be able to wipe out more fields... win! Forget about tanks, convoys, defenses, etc... they are just for decoration.

I think we have to stop reasoning with the blue team, have a strong feeling we just waste our time.

P.S.

Honestly I do like War Thunder approach. You are within 5km of AF, you are a dead man. 5 fighters got into that radius, 3 are dead immediately, other 2 will be dead as well if they don't get out within 10-20 seconds. And you can do it as long as you want with the same result. Bombers wouldn't be able even to get close to AF if they don't fly above 6km continuously maneuvering/changing the course. Now I believe they predicted the future and implemented such a mechanic to avoid the appearance of those guys who are more than happy to screw up the game.)

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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Hello guys!

 

I am having a look around the servers and what I've notices is that flying on TAW is very stuttery (like a quarter of a second freeze ever 1-2 seconds) while there's many people. Once they leave it becomes nice and smooth. Would you know of any solution to that? I scoured the forums but I only found solutions to regular stuttering (e.g. offline) - my issue is a server with many players on. 

 

I'd appreciate any help! 

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15 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Hello guys!

 

I am having a look around the servers and what I've notices is that flying on TAW is very stuttery (like a quarter of a second freeze ever 1-2 seconds) while there's many people. Once they leave it becomes nice and smooth. Would you know of any solution to that? I scoured the forums but I only found solutions to regular stuttering (e.g. offline) - my issue is a server with many players on. 

 

I'd appreciate any help! 

I had stutters too tonight, and sorry to say theres no certain cure for it atm. If your connection is good, theres not much you can do afaik. It gets stuttery also on other servers sometimes. 

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Posted (edited)

From my point of view TAW has a very important conflict on the way is made.

It should be kind of a competition but realistic where people or squads can feel themselves more like on a realistic situation instead of fast action servers as Berloga or Wings.

So... we have 2 clear kind of aproach inmediatly. The people who wants to keep his life as realistic as possible, and the people who enjoy more the competition factor of wining the campaign. This two kind of people can be happy on a campaign as we had on DED Expert Random with a large map, variety of targets, big front line etc. But TAW is not like that. Often the targets are not too far from the take off point, are very close to the front line and some arfield, and targets are very predictable for the enemy fighters to know where is the action, and sometimes there is just not too much to do because is suicidal.

So we have that if you want to win you need to make risky attacks and is better to make damage to targets but being killed sometimes rather than keeping the life. That aspect kills the realism. And for other people who wants to just keep the life as much as possible you just can camp on your field most of the time if not a lot of advantage on numbers so this ends in a really shitty experience. Some times you can see a couple of enemies going inside the territory and the expectacle of 7 guys going yolo to kill him, shoulder shoting, crashing each other etc beguins.

 

Sportive behabeour is something that I never saw on the TAW. Chutekillers, shoulder shoting, people with flares and lightsetc... I saw one guy got banned for stealing a kill... I can see this each time I fly and I have been stolen a lot of times, I stole as well some kills. Most of the people just shot whatever they can get shots on. It doesnt matter if the one you dive on is already smoking because someone hit him. I try to evade risky situations where I can crash or where I can hit with the guns other guy but but half are not as cautious.

 

I can enjoy the TAW just because the challenge but noot really an enjoyable server from the fun or from realistic point of view.

Edited by E69_geramos109

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45 минут назад, Operatsiya_Ivy сказал:

With the upcoming Bodenplatte expansion it makes no sense to make Airfields invulnerable or non attackable. 

You never know lol

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Simple solution: Every pilot have several lives (chutekilling lost its purpose). Every pilot got just one plane/ each type /map

When u lost your best plane....its gone for that map. 

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16 hours ago, =KK=Des_ said:

My suggestion.

1. Undamaged aaa on AF and Depot.

2. Less aggressive aaa on other targets.

3. No entrance for side who already had 48 registered pilots on server.

4. No entrance if user not in Ts.

 

I really hope the 4th point is not implemented. TS is blocked in my country. And I know for a fact that I am not even the only player in this situation. Also, why would TS be relevant to decide if a person is “worthy” or not? 

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7 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

With the upcoming Bodenplatte expansion it makes no sense to make Airfields invulnerable or non attackable. 

 

Agree.

 

Invulnerable AAA and airfield would be a killer immersion, not realistic at all.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, antpaisvieira said:

 

I really hope the 4th point is not implemented. TS is blocked in my country. And I know for a fact that I am not even the only player in this situation. Also, why would TS be relevant to decide if a person is “worthy” or not? 

 

I am in the same situation as Antpai. VOIP is blocked in my country. I would hope the devs understand that, even for people who have access to VOIP,  sometimes they just can't use it. I can think of many scenarios. For example, you have a new born, it's late at night, and the last thing you want to do is wake it up with, "Six, six, six," only to have your wife come storming into the room like a Banshee from Hell and wielding a broom stick like a longsword.

 

On a side note, thanks to everyone who uses VOIP but takes time to send updates via text chat. It really helps us who have to fly alone.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, LLv24_Oke said:

Simple solution: Every pilot have several lives (chutekilling lost its purpose). Every pilot got just one plane/ each type /map

When u lost your best plane....its gone for that map. 

 

Just check the "Stat" page. Do you really want to see on the server only 5..10 players after 100..200 hours after the TAW start? No one play it like to be killed, but it happend all the time (if you do not stay at 7k meters). 

 

LG=Kathon

 

can you share with us the statictic about the play hours for the both teams?

 

Campaign No1.

 

Red hours (total) - Axis hours (total)

Red hours (Pe2) - Axis hours (He111)

Red hours (fighters) - Axis hours (fighters)

Red hours (IL2) - Axis hours (Bf110)

 

Campaign No2.

 

Red hours (total) - Axis hours (total)

Red hours (Pe2) - Axis hours (He111+Ju88)

Red hours (fighters) - Axis hours (fighters)

Red hours (IL2) - Axis hours (Bf110)

 

..

 

Campaign 6

 

I think that we will see about +30% on the axis side. That is the general problem. No one can win with these conditions.

Edited by Norz

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I said it many times many different ways, no one listen/implemented the thing. Plane set is not balanced, its OK, its historical... So lets not balance points also. Kill in blue plane - 50 points. Kill in red plane - 75 points. Why? Because it is harder... That will bring some players to red side. 

 

Original idea is not side relevant but even plane relevant...

F4 kills Lagg - 40 points.

Lagg kills F4 - 90 points. 

FN kills F4 - 30 points

 

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i like this idea, or something similar......perhaps standard planes are just always available, and with each map, the extra planes or the +1 planes are acquired with obtaining rank, not through CM +1.

 

so if you are a captain for instance, the standard aircraft is a mig 3 and you can always fly this in unlimited amounts, but the +1 aircraft is a yak1.69. which is unlocked as you are of sufficient rank, and you can fly these to an unlimited amount, but once you lose this rank, then you are back to mig 3's.

 

this would promote pilot preservation rather than aircraft preservation.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

Making rank matter for something would actually be nice.

 

It will not.

Edited by Norz

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4 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

No, it will not.

 

your reasoning and argumentation is on point again like in your previous posts, consider me impressed.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

your reasoning and argumentation is on point again like in your previous posts, consider me impressed.

 

I do not expect that you can't open the STAT page to analyze the current state with the ranks. If you need any help to check first 150 rank positions, let me know.

Edited by Norz

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12 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

No, it will not.

 

its monday today norz

 

norz: "no its is not"

 

or

 

norz: "for blue it is, for red, no"

 

 

with the system i mentioned, gaining points via killing ground targets could really matter, also points could be changed as hot dog mentioned......if one side is heavily outnumbered then any points scored could be doubled, thats reward for heroic actions.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

with the system i mentioned, gaining points via killing ground targets could really matter, also points could be changed as hot dog mentioned......if one side is heavily outnumbered then any points scored could be doubled, thats reward for heroic actions.

 

"Outnumbered" does not mean that you will see a lot of enemy at the target. Again, the outnumbered team can't start of the front line AFs. 

 

Better to improve the second team with some extra planes (+2CM instead of +3CM), all planes in a hangar, if your team had -20% flight hours on the map before and something like that. 

Edited by Norz

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

"Outnumbered" does not mean that you will see a lot of enemy at the target. Again, the outnumbered team can't start of the front line AFs. 

 

Better to improve the second team with some extra planes (+2CM instead of +3CM), all planes in a hangar, if your team had -20% flight hours on the map before and something like that. 

 

where has norz gone? who is this guy typing in his place??

 

thats better norz....suggestions instead of just objections. 😊

 

 

 

Edited by SYN_Repent

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

where has norz gone? who is this guy typing in his place??

thats better norz....suggestions instead of just objections. 😊

 

LOL, are you kidding? Again, we played RED side often then AXIS side. But there are no reasons to ask some changes that are not good enough for BOTH teams (at least it is my personal point of view).

 

I hope a google translator can be useful to translate that:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3955-tactical-air-war/?do=findComment&comment=678635 

Edited by Norz

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