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Tactical Air War

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24 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Instead of constant whining, you'd help your side more, if you would actually log on, when LW has numerical superiority. But it seems your kill streak is more valuable to you then actually playing the team game. You rather fight in Berloga when your side is outnumbered, just to not get in any position to lose the kill streak. Some others of the Red stats hunters are doing the same. This is, what's actually causing disbalance right now. It's enough when 5 or 10 people act this way at the same time, the cumulative effect is what you see at certain times.

 

If your side would men up and do the team game, join the server even when the numbers don't look so good, it would balance out in an instant. 

 

Um... You do realize that most "stat padding"  players who are "declining to play" when the time zone swing goes to the opponent team's favor have other things to do like SLEEP or GO TO WORK, right? 

 

I admit I could fly right now, but I'm simply not going to go through the frustration of arriving to a predictable well-covered frontline dumpster fire just to get jumped by 4 109s.  I'm not going to fly 3 transport missions along (a) predictable route(s) when my Pe-2s are wasted to get a Pe-2 that gets jumped on the 4th mission.  And I'm certainly not going to attack behind enemy lines (depot)  when there's enough Axis players to cover the depot and the frontlines. Not only that but attacking depots is pointless if aforementioned "frontline dumpster fires" can't be dealt with first.      

 

I'll concede that the Pe-2 is pretty tough after the update, but ALL planes are now.  I'll concede that the damage models still need work.  I won't concede that the Pe-2 is the magical Laser-Sniping, Ten-Pound Cock-having Unicorn people claim.  Aren't all gunners for all planes controlled by the same AI routine anyway?   

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TAW 16: Blue has more players just like every TAW.

 

"It's not unbalanced!" - Blue

 

Edit: "Most balanced TAW ever!" is said each time as the huge gap between registered accounts closes between blue and red.

 

Interesting, then, that Red have never once had more than Blue. 

Edited by Talon_
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9 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Um... You do realize that most "stat padding"  players who are "declining to play" when the time zone swing goes to the opponent team's favor have other things to do like SLEEP or GO TO WORK, right? 

 

I admit I could fly right now, but I'm simply not going to go through the frustration of arriving to a predictable well-covered frontline dumpster fire just to get jumped by 4 109s.  I'm not going to fly 3 transport missions along (a) predictable route(s) when my Pe-2s are wasted to get a Pe-2 that gets jumped on the 4th mission.  And I'm certainly not going to attack behind enemy lines (depot)  when there's enough Axis players to cover the depot and the frontlines. Not only that but attacking depots is pointless if aforementioned "frontline dumpster fires" can't be dealt with first.      

 

I'll concede that the Pe-2 is pretty tough after the update, but ALL planes are now.  I'll concede that the damage models still need work.  I won't concede that the Pe-2 is the magical Laser-Sniping, Ten-Pound Cock-having Unicorn people claim.  Aren't all gunners for all planes controlled by the same AI routine anyway?   

 

Coincidentally you could see those players regularly at the same time as long as numbers were balanced. In addition, you see those players airquaking in Berloga while they could actually help their team.

 

I can understand your frustration, but it's a cumulative aspect. If people would start to fly regardless, numbers would balance again. There is no other "real" reason, that Reds are loosing numerical parity in the last 3 days. Heck, their fighters even got better in comparison to blue side. Or is it really only the Pe2 being easier to kill now then before?

 

The main "problem" is the Pe2 S.37, it's tougher then the rest of the aircraft and is way more dangerous, even more though against weak and slow fighters like the E7 and F2. Compared to the rather slow (and slow firing) E7, it's a deathstar. The Pe2 87 (or what ever version it is) seems to be more or less on parity with the rest of the bombers and attackers in terms of durability, but still a bit more dangerous (and faster). But it doesn't feel nearly as off as the early Pe2 (in fact it doesn't feel less off then the German bombers, so probably general DM problem). But I don't wanna make this a Pe2 or DM discussion again

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

The main "problem" is the Pe2 S.37, it's tougher then the rest of the aircraft and is way more dangerous, even more though against weak and slow fighters like the E7 and F2. Compared to the rather slow (and slow firing) E7, it's a deathstar. The Pe2 87 (or what ever version it is) seems to be more or less on parity with the rest of the bombers and attackers in terms of durability, but still a bit more dangerous (and faster). But it doesn't feel nearly as off as the early Pe2

 

Do some testing instead of speculating please.

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44 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Plain wrong. The Pe2 is by far the best CAS machine. Not because of it's ground destruction capabilities, but because of it's survival capabilities.

 

 

Hmm If You say its the best  in cas because of its survibalibility And the poor loadout doesnt matter, than the 109s And 190 are even better at its because are much faster And can easyly escape pursiut after attack...

 

Anyway You seam very traumatsed by pe2s

 

If You cant do the side attack on pe2s just take 110 or You are scared that in 110 You will not be able to run or outclimb the oposition at leasure

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14 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Hmm If You say its the best  in cas because of its survibalibility And the poor loadout doesnt matter, than the 109s And 190 are even better at its because are much faster And can easyly escape pursiut after attack...

 

Anyway You seam very traumatsed by pe2s

 

If You cant do the side attack on pe2s just take 110 or You are scared that in 110 You will not be able to run or outclimb the oposition at leasure

 

The 109-A8 (F8 modification) is surely a better CAS aircraft then the Pe2 i'd say, yes.
I am traumatized by the Pe2 S.37 in map 1 and 2, because I did several "after the book" attack runs that always ended in my plane destroyed. In contrary to most blue fighters, I didn't refuse to attack it, because that's just not right.

 

Right now it's fine, I don't have problems to kill Pe2 S.87 at all, half my airkills have been Pe2. If you switch sides in the future, you will feel the pain in map1 and 2. 

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

Instead of constant whining, you'd help your side more, if you would actually log on, when LW has numerical superiority. But it seems your kill streak is more valuable to you then actually playing the team game. You rather fight in Berloga when your side is outnumbered, just to not get in any position to lose the kill streak. Some others of the Red stats hunters are doing the same. This is, what's actually causing disbalance right now. It's enough when 5 or 10 people act this way at the same time, the cumulative effect is what you see at certain times.

 

1. This is so amazingly funny that it becomes disturbing? You Manu giving advice to "not whine" to others? One of the most ridiculous cry babies with not a single solid argumentation we have at the forums. What a paradox, almost surreal.

 

2. Also you give me advice to log in when we are outnumbered? Is this a joke or you really wrote this? Do you know who has been flying this TAW since map #1 being the red pilot with more hours flown on this server with the exception of 1 guy? Guess.

 

3. One thing is right, i just fly in a way so i don´t lose a streak; that's why i escort guys to enemy tanks, that's why i go solo bombing depots deep behind enemy lines when we are 3 and LW has 10 pilots on 109s with gunpods and FWs looking for us; that's why i join a server trying to defend a tank column when there are a shit load of blue pilots trying to shoot us down. That's why i join, so i can increase my air kills streak by attacking artillery in an il2 or joining an attack group to an enemy airfield.

 

4. And even better to the point of being LMAO your statement that disbalance and RED team is losing just because they are all stat hunters. 

 

I'll give you an advise, you have no idea how much of a full you make of yourself post after post. Try to avoid forums and use that time and energy to become a better pilot, cause right now it seems you can´t do much.

 

 

 

Edited by ECV56_Chimango
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1 minute ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

The main "problem" is the Pe2 S.37, it's tougher then the rest of the aircraft and is way more dangerous, even more though against weak and slow fighters like the E7 and F2. Compared to the rather slow (and slow firing) E7, it's a deathstar. The Pe2 87 (or what ever version it is) seems to be more or less on parity with the rest of the bombers and attackers in terms of durability, but still a bit more dangerous (and faster). But it doesn't feel nearly as off as the early Pe2

 

I fail to see the problem vs. E7 and F2.   The E7 is still fast enough to parallel pursue a Pe-2 until it can make a frontal attack, as is the F2 - even with gunpods.  Still players insist on putting on a Barry White record and slipping up from behind nice and slow.  The only time pilot error is the Pe-2's problem is when it's the Pe-2s pilot that makes the error, not the other way around. 

Without the gun pods the F2 was the WORST armed 109 of all. With it's MGs and single 15mm cannon, many pilots rejected it and when they could stayed with the slightly slower but better-armed E7.  They finally got on-board with the single cannon design when the F4 was given the 20mm cannon.

 

Well, if it's on parity with the He-111 - which could be brought down in flames by a 3 second burst of 6x .303 (of all things)  during the B.o.B. and now tanks everything but nose glass hits, I'm cool with it.   Seriously though, I agree (subjectively speaking) certain planes seem more tanky than they should be.  Hopefully the devs will be able to "dial" in the FM and DM as close as possible to what the Real World planes were like.  I don't care if it's a sky tank or a fire trap as long as that's how it really was when it flew for real.

11 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Right now it's fine, I don't have problems to kill Pe2 S.87 at all, half my airkills have been Pe2. If you switch sides in the future, you will feel the pain in map1 and 2. 

OK, it's a bet.  As long as my other 2 squad mates are cool with it, I'll fly Axis next TAW. 

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3 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

The good old 109 F2 with gunpods ;)

 

Yes, but I did say that it was the weakest armed without the pods.  Most real world F2 pilots rejected the pods for the same reason Mig-3 pilots hated their gunpods - speed loss and increased instability in maneuvers.   In-game very few care about such things and just want MOAR FYRE POWWAAA!!!!

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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Just now, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Yes, but I did say that it was the weakest armed without the pods.  Most real world F2 pilots rejected the pods for the same reason Mig-3 pilots hated their gunpods - speed loss and increased instability in maneuvers.   In-game very few care about such things and just want MOAR FYRE POWWAAA!!!!

 

@Operation_Ivy I couldn't agree with you more on the requirement for the player to have played on both sides before giving feedback on the balance of the game 😄 

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3 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

 

1. This is so amazingly funny that it becomes disturbing? You Manu giving advice to "not whine" to others? One of the most ridiculous cry babies with not a single solid argumentation we have at the forums. What a paradox, almost surreal.

 

2. Also you give me advice to log in when we are outnumbered? Is this a joke or you really wrote this? Do you know who has been flying this TAW since map #1 being the red pilot with more hours flown on this server with the exception of 1 guy? Guess.

 

3. One thing is right, i just fly in a way so i don´t lose a streak; that's why i escort guys to enemy tanks, that's why i go solo bombing depots deep behind enemy lines when we are 3 and LW has 10 pilots on 109s with gunpods and FWs looking for us; that's why i join a server trying to defend a tank column when there are a shit load of blue pilots trying to protect it. That's why i join, so i can increase my air kills streak by attacking artillery in an il2 or joining an attack group to an enemy airfield.

 

4. And even better to the point of being LMAO your statmenet RED team is losing just because they are all stat hunters. 

 

I'll give you an advise, you have no idea how much of a full you make of yourself post after post. Try to avoid forums and use that time and energy to become a better pilot, cause right now it seems you can´t do much.

 

 

1. I think you are confusing me with yourself

 

2./3. Yeah, seems your whole life is centered around TaW. But you still don't seem to fly if your side is more then a bit outnumbered. Already twice I have seen you in Berloga, when your side could have needed your help. Very brave indeed. 

 

4. I didn't say that at all. Please don't twist my words. I just said, you would be better off, if some people would join regardless of the numbers they see, the cumulative effect would lead to a more balanced lineup (not necessarily absolute balance)

 

5. I only post in the forums during work when I have to wait for slow Microsoft software to load some stuff. I don't have too much time to fly unfortunately these days. 

 

7 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

I fail to see the problem vs. E7 and F2.   The E7 is still fast enough to parallel pursue a Pe-2 until it can make a frontal attack, as is the F2 - even with gunpods.  Still players insist on putting on a Barry White record and slipping up from behind nice and slow.  The only time pilot error is the Pe-2's problem is when it's the Pe-2s pilot that makes the error, not the other way around. 

Without the gun pods the F2 was the WORST armed 109 of all. With it's MGs and single 15mm cannon, many pilots rejected it and when they could stayed with the slightly slower but better-armed E7.  They finally got on-board with the single cannon design when the F4 was given the 20mm cannon.

 

Well, if it would be no problem, then it would not have been the case, that most blue pilots refused to attack it early on. Amongst them top fighter pilots from the stats and the best pilots from each of two squads I know. 

Even with perfect attack runs (e.g. head on), the gunner will hit you sometimes after you are past the enemy aircraft. If it would be the whole map just for a fighter and the Pe2, it would probably be doable in most cases. But at the time you will overtake the Pe2, it's already at the homebase and you will be swarmed by Red fighters. 

I don't know about gunpods, not a friend of them, never take them.

You will see soon enough, if you decide to join blue in the next TaW, and the S.37 DM will still be the same. 

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My guys flew 110s last TAW (came 32nd overall after joining with 10 days to go) and Peshkas this TAW (currently #1 Allied squad) and so far the 110s are significantly more survivable per sortie overall.

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2 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

The F-2 can't equip gunpods in the game.

 

My mistake then.  So then the 109 F2 is the weakest-armed 109 in-game.

1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

My guys flew 110s last TAW (came 32nd overall after joining with 10 days to go) and Peshkas this TAW (currently #1 Allied squad) and so far the 110s are significantly more survivable per sortie overall.

 

Works for me. I like twin engine planes.

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1 minute ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

My mistake then.  So then the 109 F2 is the weakest-armed 109 in-game.

It can be equipped with a 20mm instead of 15mm.

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Just now, =AVG77=Garven said:

It can be equipped with a 20mm instead of 15mm.

Is that even historical except for developmental models leading up to the F4?

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3 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Is that even historical except for developmental models leading up to the F4?

 

MG/FF in the F-1

 

Wikipedia unsourcedly suggests the MG151 20mm was retrofit.

Edited by Talon_

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7 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

My mistake then.  So then the 109 F2 is the weakest-armed 109 in-game.

 

You give an awful lot of advice to 109 pilots against peshkas for someone who apparently has very little experience flying E-7s and F-2s against them, which doesn't surprise me looking at your signature.

Edited by Operation_Ivy

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5 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

You give an awful lot of advice to 109 pilots against peshkas for someone who apparently has very little experience flying E-7s and F-2s against them, which doesn't surprise me looking at your signature.

 

Fine then.  I agree it's simply not enough to have plenty of Il2-'46 time and to know my preferred kite's weaknesses.  I admit I haven't taken time to GIT GUUD at the Axis side of the IL-2 GB series, but that'll change. 

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

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8 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The only good solution for balance if you don't have balanced aircraft is to let people switch sides and not have a community full of selfish jerks.


I find it weird switching sides in TAW. Like you spent two hours coordinating attacks to help your tanks advance, dodge AAA and fighters to finally make it. And then spend another two hours undoing the results of your work?

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3 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Fine then.  I agree it's simply not enough to have plenty of Il2-'46 time and to know my preferred kite's weaknesses.  I admit I haven't taken time to GIT GUUD at the Axis side of the IL-2 GB series, but that'll change. 

 

Looking forward to your opinion regarding the S.37 in TaW once you decided to go for blue, at least if the DM and server set gunners will be the same as they are now. That's not in any way meant in a sarcastic way, just to make sure. 

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4 minutes ago, mincer said:


I find it weird switching sides in TAW. Like you spent two hours coordinating attacks to help your tanks advance, dodge AAA and fighters to finally make it. And then spend another two hours undoing the results of your work?

 

You’re not actually fighting in a real war.  Take it as a challenge to reverse the damage that you just caused.   But if you think it’s fun to continue to crush people that you outnumber 30-10, congrats on your great victory and thanks for proving my point!

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1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

But if you think it’s fun to continue to crush people that you outnumber 30-10, congrats on your great victory and thanks for proving my point!

Mincer is flying Russian.

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27 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Looking forward to your opinion regarding the S.37 in TaW once you decided to go for blue, at least if the DM and server set gunners will be the same as they are now. That's not in any way meant in a sarcastic way, just to make sure. 

 

Roger that.  

 

I know it's not the same, but I have been doing 109 e7 and f2 vs. series .37 quick missions on Ace level.  So far any hits I took were because of my error, not the much-feared magic Pe-2 bullet.  I'll keep running more until I finally see it, or the next TAW gives me the opportunity to test with live pilots. 

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I think any advantage Pe2 (maybe) brings to VVS side is canceled out by massive superiority of OKL fighters. But I am wondering why every time I wake up the next day after map's start it is already lost...

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4 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Roger that.  

 

I know it's not the same, but I have been doing 109 e7 and f2 vs. series .37 quick missions on Ace level.  So far any hits I took were because of my error, not the much-feared magic Pe-2 bullet.  I'll keep running more until I finally see it, or the next TAW gives me the opportunity to test with live pilots. 

 

You are right, it's not the same. I have no problems in taking out a flight of 3 or 4 Ace Pe2 with an E7 or F2. The difference to player controlled ones is massive. Looking forward to your feedback.

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

Yeah, seems your whole life is centered around TaW. But you still don't seem to fly if your side is more then a bit outnumbered. Already twice I have seen you in Berloga, when your side could have needed your help. Very brave indeed. 

 

First you say i should join TAW to help my side; then you insinuate i spend too much time in TAW; later you say you don´t like it when i'm out of TAW relaxing at Berloga...god you remind me of my ex-girlfriend, a very hard to please lady.

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4 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

 

First you say i should join TAW to help my side; then you insinuate i spend too much time in TAW; later you say you don´t like it when i'm out of TAW relaxing at Berloga...god you remind me of my ex-girlfriend, a very hard to please lady.

No no no, wrong comprehension.

1. yes

2. I didn't say you spend too much time there. I'd like to spend this much time there as well. 

3. that's right again

 

I think visible top pilots like you being online encourage other Reds to join as well. 

On the contrary if they see you whining around in the Forums, they'll think themselves "if not even he joins the fight now, I surely won't do it as well"

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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11 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

You are right, it's not the same. I have no problems in taking out a flight of 3 or 4 Ace Pe2 with an E7 or F2. The difference to player controlled ones is massive. Looking forward to your feedback.

That's impressive considering the AI knows the perfect times to change aspect to prevent you getting out front and can 'read' your crosshair position.  I've been in a Pe-2 with other Pe-2s and never saw a real player fly such good defense - including myself.   I guess we'll see how it goes when the time comes to go live.

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1 minute ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

That's impressive considering the AI knows the perfect times to change aspect to prevent you getting out front and can 'read' your crosshair position.  I've been in a Pe-2 with other Pe-2s and never saw a real player fly such good defense - including myself.   I guess we'll see how it goes when the time comes to go live.

 

When I have the time and I know no other fighers are around I attack Pe2s at angles they can't shoot at me at all, not even close.

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

When I have the time and I know no other fighers are around I attack Pe2s at angles they can't shoot at me at all, not even close.

 

Fine, have it your way.  I'm out.  I'll give my impressions when it's go time.   Maybe I'll agree with you, maybe I won't.  

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1 hour ago, =AVG77=Garven said:

Mincer is flying Russian.

 

Then he probably doesn’t have to worry about switching sides very often.

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I would  just like to say that the real heroes winning the TAW war are not the stat-padders trying their best to avoid death. Instead its the guys who go in and do the grunt work. Like 19FAB Dema. You don't see them in the top5 rankings because for some reason TAW admins decided that only live pilots matter.

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7 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

On the contrary if they see you whining around in the Forums, they'll think themselves "if not even he joins the fight now, I surely won't do it as well"

 

Good they don't join! It speaks clearly they are healthy people, on the contrary you advise them to be happily gangbanged time after time! Again, you DO remind me of my ex-girlfriend! 

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5 minutes ago, xJammer said:

I would  just like to say that the real heroes winning the TAW war are not the stat-padders trying their best to avoid death. Instead its the guys who go in and do the grunt work. Like 19FAB Dema. You don't see them in the top5 rankings because for some reason TAW admins decided that only live pilots matter.

He was in the top 5 bomber category for a while and he is ranked number 2 overall which one can only do by trying your best to stay alive.  If you think doing grunt work is going on one way trips your doing it wrong. 

Edited by =AVG77=Garven
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18 minutes ago, xJammer said:

I would  just like to say that the real heroes winning the TAW war are not the stat-padders trying their best to avoid death. Instead its the guys who go in and do the grunt work. Like 19FAB Dema. You don't see them in the top5 rankings because for some reason TAW admins decided that only live pilots matter.

 

What a weak attempt of "divide and conquer" you tried there. Nice try, but some of us are too old for this hypocrisy. Dema it's a great pilot who btw has also being a top 5 pilot for long and is on top of the performance stats; so don't try to deviate the real meaning of your comment. With your statement what you are doing it's padding yourself, cause you fly like a kamikaze, turning this sim into an arcade game. You are not a "hero" by exploiting the game, you try to cause as much possible damage to your rival with a total disregard of your virtual life, not a hero mate: you are to a great virtual pilot, what a suicide bomber is to a special ops commando.

 

On one end you have stat hunters; on the other end suicide arcade gamers...in the middle are most virtual pilots who try to accomplish the mission while staying alive.
 

Edited by ECV56_Chimango

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12 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

 

What a weak attempt of "divide and conquer" you tried there. Nice try, but some of us are too old for this hypocrisy. Dema it's a great pilot who btw has also being a top 5 pilot for long and is on top of the performance stats; so don't try to deviate the real meaning of your comment. With your statement what you are doing it's padding yourself, cause you fly like a kamikaze, turning this sim into an arcade game. You are not a "hero" by exploiting the game, you try to cause as much possible damage to your rival with a total disregard of your virtual life, not a hero mate: you are to a great virtual pilot, what a suicide bomber is to a special ops commando.

 

On one end you have stat hunters; on the other end suicide arcade gamers...in the middle are most virtual pilots who try to accomplish the mission while staying alive.


 

 

 

Lol... Wow. You really have something against me specifically... Is it even worth conversing with you any further?

 

 

P.S. even if I took your post seriously, comparing myself to DEMA hardly begs much difference with 18 vs. 21 deaths. You, however, do your best to stay away from groundwork ;) 

 

 

P.P.S I'm sorry I para-kiled your streak early on. I did not mean to make myself a forum warrior enemy.

Edited by xJammer
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20 minutes ago, xJammer said:

I would  just like to say that the real heroes winning the TAW war are not the stat-padders trying their best to avoid death. Instead its the guys who go in and do the grunt work.

 

Throwing massive amounts of meat into the grinder until it jams only worked for the North Vietnamese Army.  In context of our electronic game of historically-based tag, it's pointless, frustrating, and with plane limits, just plain stupid.

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13 minutes ago, xJammer said:

comparing myself to DEMA hardly begs much difference with 18 vs. 21 deaths

He has more than twice as many sorties flown as you have and combining deaths and captures puts you at 29 and him at 21

Edited by =AVG77=Garven
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