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Game version 4.504 discussion: Rough terrain visualization, New cockpit sounding, GFX improvements and other


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44 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

I think that any 'sliders' here will destroy the immersion and will lead to cheats.

   Really?  Adjusting the sound is a cheat?  Could someone be more specific about this?  In what way?

 

31 minutes ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

In some other games people used exactly this for their advantage with sliders etc. and naturally there will be a sort of people that would abuse this.

So because people in "other games" might use sound as a cheat we "know" that pilots here will "abuse" it.  You are awful pessimistic sir.  All I know is if I don't have situational awareness visually I'm going to get shot down.  Turning down the wind sound won't save me.  Now if the other guy could turn down his sound, that might be a different matter.

 

Has everyone forgotten that this is a game at it's core?  This is that "Full Real" goblin from IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles come back to life.

Look, I like the idea of having wind sound added to the immersion factor but as I stated in a previous post, this is a case where one size does not fit all.  I don't see how an adjustment value of some kind will kill the immersion and, if implemented correctly, can lead to sound level becoming a "cheat".

 

2 (apparently worthless) kopecks from me.

Edited by Beebop
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A great job...

... but can you address the issue of the invisible obstacles/trees in the game (in forest or at it borders) that the tank players hit and damage the vehicle and have no chance to spot since they are invisible? :)...

It is enough to go for the ride trough the forest on any of the map to have that issue.

Edited by 315_R2r
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36 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

Maybe one day we will add this feature to the options. As I see some ask us about it, and I know that Jason very like this solution. Although I personally prefer to keep the balance of sound the same for all players (continuing to work to improve). I think that any 'sliders' here will destroy the immersion and will lead to cheats. But maybe I'm wrong.

It would be sufficient to enable a 20% wind volume adjustment range up and down to compensate for the deficiencies of various sound systems as pointed out here:

4 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

Actually it might be productive if what sort of hardware was used is mentioned. Headphones (open/closed makes a huge difference - apart from going to driver size, etc) and speakers all have different dynamic ranges and frequency responses. In games like Elite Dangerous, which is known for its spectacular sound design, they have an option for the dynamic range for this exact reason. Sound design is a very tricky thing and IMO it's near impossible to have a one-size-fits-all result unfortunately.

 

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1 hour ago, Beebop said:

   Really?  Adjusting the sound is a cheat?  Could someone be more specific about this?  In what way?

 

So because people in "other games" might use sound as a cheat we "know" that pilots here will "abuse" it.  You are awful pessimistic sir.  All I know is if I don't have situational awareness visually I'm going to get shot down.  Turning down the wind sound won't save me.  Now if the other guy could turn down his sound, that might be a different matter.

 

Has everyone forgotten that this is a game at it's core?  This is that "Full Real" goblin from IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles come back to life.

Look, I like the idea of having wind sound added to the immersion factor but as I stated in a previous post, this is a case where one size does not fit all.  I don't see how an adjustment value of some kind will kill the immersion and, if implemented correctly, can lead to sound level becoming a "cheat".

 

2 (apparently worthless) kopecks from me.

if you have too many sliders it would allow players to adjust sounds in game to the point where they'd be able to hear other aircraft behind them. 

 

We've had people manipulating the game having invisible aircraft before..

 

 

if there was no way for them to adjust the volume of the sound I'd be completely fine if they left it as is with the ram air.

 

Edited by DenumPenguin
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2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

This is key, now all of a sudden we have few  experts pilots that now how loud or quiet plane are, love the complaints, my ears hurt, I am getting tired and cannot play IL2 anymore? 

Someone can get ride on a P51 once, and become an expert, did you dive to 400mph?

 

Wind sounds are great in game, if at all they should be even louder at top speeds.

How do I know? the wind noise saved my life when I was a beginner pilot, and tried descend thru a hole in the clouds (clouds do move) and I dove towards the hole, in a high bank angle, was starting to spiral and fixated on the hole, wind noise became super loud, this is when I looked at the ASI , was over redline I assume more than 400KPH, I straightened the aircraft , pulled power , and started to pull very gently ,so my first instrument meteorological experience was at VNE (never exceed speed) on a bank (scary).

 

Wind noise is loud and gives a pilot a cue of the speed, want a sim , want to experience how it was, this is how it should be.

 

Pretty presumtuous of you to define my flying experience based upon one video......................

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12 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Pretty presumtuous of you to define my flying experience based upon one video......................

Sorry didn't  want to offend you, and do not doubt your flying experience, I just think this can confuse the other members of the community.

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53 minutes ago, DenumPenguin said:

if you have too many sliders it would allow players to adjust sounds in game to the point where they'd be able to hear other aircraft behind them. 

Hmmm.  Never had that kind of a problem in 1946 where you could adjust object, voice and overall volumes.  Not once did I ever "hear" another plane behind me.  Even with all the mod packs that hasn't happened.

1 hour ago, DenumPenguin said:

We've had people manipulating the game having visible aircraft before..

I assume you mean invisible.  There will always be someone who games the game.  I don't see a direct correlation between making your plane invisible and having the passing air too loud or too soft.  Your suggesting that it will become wide spread that cheaters will turn down the sound of the wind so they can hear you approaching their six?  I'd like to fly on the server where you can hear an approaching enemy in enough time to avoid being shot down.

 

You know I have never in the past seen a post "I wish there was more wind sound to make the game more immersive."  But now that wind sound is more audible there's hue and cry that any adjustment in what we have been given will lead to widespread cheating.  I do take realism and immersion pretty seriously but I keep two things in mind;

1.  It's just a GAME!

2. If I don't like the settings or who I'm flying with I'll change servers.

 

And then there's the guy who never flies online, just offline.  (and there are many).  Cheating will never become an issue for them so why can't they have an option to adjust the wind/engine sound balance? 

 

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5 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

For a long time I have understood that 100% in game volume is recommended to get full fidelity of sound

 

and to moderate volume in Windows or sound card/speakers to get desired/preferred loudness 

 

Yes, that's the correct way things need to be configured.

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7 hours ago, 216th_Nocke said:

Perhaps everybody giving an opinion about the sound levels should tell us his age? Maybe that hissing sound of the wind has high frequencies we older guys just don't hear? I am 61, and for me the wind is not too loud ...

 

+1. I'm only 54 and I have documented loss of hearing in higher tonal ranges and wear hearing aids. A lot of my hearing loss comes from spending many hours in DC3s, Otters, Skyvans, and Beech aircraft that have been stripped of noise cancellation materials to reduce weight, and I suspect that is a major cause of my hearing loss (and, of course, age).

 

It makes me realize that while wind and engine noise in our games helps with immersion, having it too high can gradually lead to hearing loss. This isn't aimed at the devs, but to the players - consider protecting your hearing when you are young(er) by keeping the volume down in your headsets.

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Yeah I've got tinnitus, pretty minor. But it's there. 15 years of construction. Can also say

Take care of your ears!

 

 

@Beebop

You're right it is just a game. But they (the devs) are also very concerned about the realism portion of it. If the wind noise stays as is. I'll adjust. I'm sure so will many others. 

I think it added more then it took away. 

I'm seeing more players in support of it then those disliking it.  

 

Them refering to the potential of cheating is just one small part of the picture. I'm not sure why you've decided to focus so heavily on it.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DenumPenguin
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18 minutes ago, Charlo-VR said:

 

+1. I'm only 54 and I have documented loss of hearing in higher tonal ranges and wear hearing aids. A lot of my hearing loss comes from spending many hours in DC3s, Otters, Skyvans, and Beech aircraft that have been stripped of noise cancellation materials to reduce weight, and I suspect that is a major cause of my hearing loss (and, of course, age).

 

It makes me realize that while wind and engine noise in our games helps with immersion, having it too high can gradually lead to hearing loss. This isn't aimed at the devs, but to the players - consider protecting your hearing when you are young(er) by keeping the volume down in your headsets.

 

I'm curious about your opinion of engine noise vs ram air sound in those big radial engined birds. Pretty sure C-47's had minimal if any noise dampening materials during the war.

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I'm a SP kind of chap... so, if I have a set of sliders to modify the sounds in game, I'll be 'cheating' on myself?...  :dash:

If I do that, will I have to ban myself from the game?

God, sometimes these forums are laughable... why is it always about the MP chaps worrying their little bottoms off about cheats, when the vast majority of players are the SP crowd.

If it was only a MP game this flight sim would have gone under... how about giving the SP players a look in on what they want out of the game for once!

 

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39 minutes ago, DenumPenguin said:

Them refering to the potential of cheating is just one small part of the picture. I'm not sure why you've decided to focus so heavily on it.

Because it's being used as the rational to accept whatever we've been given and to dismiss comments that it could or should be different.

It assumes that everyone will cheat if given the chance.  A sad comment on our fellow pilots.

 

EXAMPLE of what the problem is, at least for me;

IL-2 42 over No Mans Land, 100 meters, 250KPH, canopy open.
I can't hear my engine but I can hear the ground explosions 300 feet beneath me.

Does that seem right to you?

 

Adjust to it?  When it changes the entire experience?  We're gonna lose some folks if some kind of accommodation isn't made IMO.  With this games marginal funding I don't wee how it can afford any losses in revenue.

Look, just give us the ability to lower the sound by a couple of increments, that's all I (and others I bevel) are asking.  Not to silence the wind, give anyone an unfair advantage, just give us the option.  If you want to go that route then for the sake of realism get rid of Invulnerability, Unlimited ammo and fuel, Engine assists, get rid of the Physiology option,  heck, just get rid of the "Realism" settings.  No assists or simplifications of any kind.  With that kind of attitude here's how you play Il-2 Sturmovik Great Battles.

* Load the game.

* The first time you get killed, either through enemy action or pilot error, uninstall the game.

 

Otherwise let the customer decide at what level of realism they choose to fly.

Let servers set realism as they can now.

Let the Dev's block/ban cheats as they have and can do now

 

Meanwhile I may just fly FC where the wind sounds now jump nearly 50% when I stick my head outside the cockpit and even in that environment I can hear my mg's firing.

 

17 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

so, if I have a set of sliders to modify the sounds in game, I'll be 'cheating' on myself?...  :dash:

If I do that, will I have to ban myself from the game?

Yes!  Put a mirror above your monitor, look yourself right in the eyes say "GET OUT CHEATER!  YER KIND AIN'T WANTED IN THESE HERE PARTS!"

then uninstall the game.  Go play War Thunder you cheater you. 😄

Edited by Beebop
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Are the new sound adjustments based on the raw dB in the cockpit, or are they simulating the noise attenuation of a WWII era helmet and headset?  I really don't care about the noise in the cockpit, I care about the noise as experienced by the pilot's ears.  The videos folks are posting are great, but unless you stuck the mic up inside your David Clark's they aren't really pertinent.  I know that noise cancellation wasn't a thing back then, but certainly insulated ear cups were, so that pilots could still hear the radios and function w/o going deaf.

 

I will note though, for the record, that the close formation vids eg. the P-51s, show clearly just how hard it is to hear a plane that is right next to you in formation over your own a/c's sounds.  Haven't tested under current patch yet, but hopefully we will no longer get an audio cue that someone is closing in on our 6!  While it enhances gameplay a bit by artificially limiting some 'bounces' it is extremely unrealistic.  I like to shoot in close and have lost  numerous potential kills to last minute evasive maneuvers that I am certain were cued by these artificial sounds, not by a dedicated 'check six.'  

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I am new to this sim and forum, but I want to thank all the developers for their hard work

and striving for accuracy and historicity.

Since I am new, I have a question about these updates and patches. Am I required to download them and apply them?  I do 

SP missions and see the option to play online or offline....are patches and updates downloaded then?  Just not sure how it works.

Thanks.

 

KW

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@Beebop

That's incredibly dramatic. 

No game benefits from the "do what we want or we quit" crowd. Luckily it's a small percentage. 

 

They'll likely add options in the future. But it's safe to assume it won't be for a while 

 

Like it or not, I think the ram air is here to stay...

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24 minutes ago, kvwint said:

I am new to this sim and forum, but I want to thank all the developers for their hard work

and striving for accuracy and historicity.

Since I am new, I have a question about these updates and patches. Am I required to download them and apply them?  I do 

SP missions and see the option to play online or offline....are patches and updates downloaded then?  Just not sure how it works.

Thanks.

 

Salutations and Welcome to our Community.

 

After a patch or game update, they will automatically be uploaded to your computer and installed when you use your games launcher.exe . It may take some time based upon the update size and the speed of your internet.

 

Once completely installed, open the game, enter your name and password (if required) and then click on the green Enter button. You will be good to go. :salute:

Edited by Thad
Corrected launcher name
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36 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations and Welcome to our Community.

 

After a patch or game update, they will automatically be uploaded to your computer and installed when you use your games launcher.exe . It may take some time based upon the update size and the speed of your internet.

 

Once completely installed, open the game, enter your name and password (if required) and then click on the green Enter button. You will be good to go. :salute:


And then it’s always a good idea to reboot before you play.

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Like the new sounds a lot (though not sure how realistic this first implementation is). However they still cut out in MP when in busy areas with many other units around you. Just flew a while ago, and almost instantly other pilots around me reported wind sounds cutting out when we approached the target area.

 

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Yes, that's the correct way things need to be configured.

 

100%?!?!?!

 

I have it at 20% at best, other than that I can't hear anything over voice comms.

 

 

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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3 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

I'm curious about your opinion of engine noise vs ram air sound in those big radial engined birds. Pretty sure C-47's had minimal if any noise dampening materials during the war.

 

I haven't been in a DC-3 since the '90's and we didn't have a door at the back so it was always open to the wind, but it was the roar and feel of the engines we mainly heard. One of the reasons I have a Buttkicker is to replicate the feel of engines. I recall a DC-3 sounding and feeling throatier from engine noise more than wind noise.

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22 minutes ago, Charlo-VR said:

 

I haven't been in a DC-3 since the '90's and we didn't have a door at the back so it was always open to the wind, but it was the roar and feel of the engines we mainly heard. One of the reasons I have a Buttkicker is to replicate the feel of engines. I recall a DC-3 sounding and feeling throatier from engine noise more than wind noise.

 

My experience as well with warbirds. In helicopters, while wearing SH3 and SH5 helmets plus doubled up with earplugs, I rarely noticed the wind noise over the rotor and engine sounds unless the doors were off. Granted we rarely exceeded 110 knots (Yup knots, not MPH :) )

 

On the other hand, you could clearly hear rain on the bubble and a birdstrike sounded like a wooden baseball bat on a full garbage can. Never saw it. Just heard it and found some feathers on the skid skirt after a precautionary landing.

 

I've tweaked my sounds to make it closer to expectations but I had to add so much bass, to bump up the engine sounds and bury the wind sounds within it, that music now sounds muddy.

 

I'm thrilled and gateful for the work done. It is well done and I'm sure it was a labor of love. I'm sure it sucks to have your work critiqued for those reasons as well. I'm not bagging on it, honest. While it doesn't kill me to make my own tweaks, I still think it needs that 10%'ish tweak to make it top shelf with stock settings.

 

I'm done in the thread as anything but an observer as I think I've stated my case fully now.

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4 hours ago, Thad said:

Salutations and Welcome to our Community.

 

After a patch or game update, they will automatically be uploaded to your computer and installed when you use your games launcher.exe . It may take some time based upon the update size and the speed of your internet.

 

Once completely installed, open the game, enter your name and password (if required) and then click on the green Enter button. You will be good to go. :salute:

Thank you for the response. 

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3 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

100%?!?!?!

 

I have it at 20% at best, other than that I can't hear anything over voice comms.

 

100% in-game volume, 20% on my headphones on Windows control panel. That is the way you're going to hear the sounds properly, at least on my system. The key is to set the volume inside the game to max and then adjust your Windows volume to whatever is a comfortable listening level. 

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30 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

100% in-game volume, 20% on my headphones on Windows control panel. That is the way you're going to hear the sounds properly, at least on my system. The key is to set the volume inside the game to max and then adjust your Windows volume to whatever is a comfortable listening level. 

 

Yes, same here. This has been the Dev recommendation since the first year of release. Run in-game volume at MAX and then tune it to your desire in WINDOWS sound mixer (volume).  Right click on voume instead of left click brings up the mixer. All of the programs you want to use/mix have to be open to find them in the mixer. I also run Teamspeak at 90% and mix it with windows to get the levels correct.

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32 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

100% in-game volume, 20% on my headphones on Windows control panel. That is the way you're going to hear the sounds properly, at least on my system. The key is to set the volume inside the game to max and then adjust your Windows volume to whatever is a comfortable listening level. 

 

Never knew that... does it make a noticeable difference?

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Took off from a frozen lake on the Veleki Luki winter map.  The plane was bouncing like it was going to break the landing gear before it could get off the ground.  

I know that lakes don't freeze completely smooth but, this is completely wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ridden 4-wheeler ATVs on frozen lakes at 45+ MPH and not had to hang on for dear life to not be thrown off of the vehicle.

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14 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Took off from a frozen lake on the Veleki Luki winter map.  The plane was bouncing like it was going to break the landing gear before it could get off the ground.  

I know that lakes don't freeze completely smooth but, this is completely wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ridden 4-wheeler ATVs on frozen lakes at 45+ MPH and not had to hang on for dear life to not be thrown off of the vehicle.

Have you tried other frozen bodies of water? The rivers on Moscow and Stalingrad seem plenty smooth, wonder if it might be particular to that map?

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7 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Have you tried other frozen bodies of water? The rivers on Moscow and Stalingrad seem plenty smooth, wonder if it might be particular to that map?

 

It could be.   I would think that the frozen surfaces on rivers would be rougher than a lake.  Yes, lakes have waves that affect the surface but, flowing water freezing to a halt should be less smooth.

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43 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I know that lakes don't freeze completely smooth but, this is completely wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ridden 4-wheeler ATVs on frozen lakes at 45+ MPH and not had to hang on for dear life to not be thrown off of the vehicle.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no trouble picturing you doing this.  ;)

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1 minute ago, JG51_Beazil said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no trouble picturing you doing this.  ;)

 

Sorry. Not understanding what you're trying to get at. 

 

Usually, frozen lakes with 4-6 inches of snow on the surface are much smoother than open not-frozen farm field.  

 

Unless you're just saying that it would be a comical mental picture to see a guy getting thrown all around like he was riding a bucking horse.

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1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Sorry. Not understanding what you're trying to get at. 

 

Usually, frozen lakes with 4-6 inches of snow on the surface are much smoother than open not-frozen farm field.  

 

Unless you're just saying that it would be a comical mental picture to see a guy getting thrown all around like he was riding a bucking horse.

It was the more comical image of the two, and because the idea of colliding with snowdrifts, fellow atv drivers or the occasional moose at that speed is mildly disconcerting.  I know I'd be hanging on tight, just in case.  Kinda figured you'd get the same mental image I did, but hey we are all different.  It was in good fun.

Should have shut up.  Sorry for the sidebar comments.

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4 minutes ago, JG51_Beazil said:

It was the more comical image of the two, and because the idea of colliding with snowdrifts, fellow atv drivers or the occasional moose at that speed is mildly disconcerting.  I know I'd be hanging on tight, just in case.  Kinda figured you'd get the same mental image I did, but hey we are all different.  It was in good fun.

Should have shut up.  Sorry for the sidebar comments.

 

No harm.  I didn't think you were being adversarial.  

Let's chalk it up to "text doesn't always convey the correct intent" or "the way I received it made me wonder".   Totally on me. 

 

And yes.  ATV mishaps can be quite comical.  YouTube tells me so!  

 

At least it's quite easy to see moose when some of the lakes in the USA are larger than some of the world's smaller countries!  

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5 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Took off from a frozen lake on the Veleki Luki winter map.  The plane was bouncing like it was going to break the landing gear before it could get off the ground.  

I know that lakes don't freeze completely smooth but, this is completely wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ridden 4-wheeler ATVs on frozen lakes at 45+ MPH and not had to hang on for dear life to not be thrown off of the vehicle.

 

I just tried the same thing in QMB, and didn't have any issues; it was very smooth. 

 

My graphics settings > Terrain roughness > High

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