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Game version 4.504 discussion: Rough terrain visualization, New cockpit sounding, GFX improvements and other


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7 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

Hi!
Thank you for your feedback!

I did not expect the airspeed more than 250 kts because of 14 CFR :rolleyes: therefore I made a quick test at this speed (which is 460 km/h).


Please watch this video and say what do you think. Thank you!
 

 

 

With switch on the wind sound looks like most of the one we can hear in a biplane with open cockpit.

Edited by Otto_bann
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37 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

Switch on looks like most the sound of a biplane with open cockpit sound.

 

I hope you've got the point that I made this test at 250 kts = 460 kph? Most likely this is the maximum airspeed that you may experience in the US taking the ride.

 

If you perform this test at usual airspeed which is about 150 kts, the balance of sounds will be on the engine side for sure (both in reality and in the game).

 

UPD:

Btw, Stampe biplane has only ~100 kts maximum speed, and usually flies at 70-80 kts in normal operations. It is about 1/3 of 250 kts, and only ~10% of its ram air power: (75/250)^2 = 0.09. If you find that wind noise inside the closed Mustang cockpit looks like the sound of a biplane, this means that our Mustang canopy is 90% soundproofing. )) Hmmm... should it be even more louder?..

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28 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

I hope you've got the point that I made this test at 250 kts = 460 kph? Most likely this is the maximum airspeed that you may experience in the US taking the ride.

If you perform this test at usual airspeed which is about 150 kts, the balance of sounds will be on the engine side for sure (both in reality and in the game).

UPD:

Btw, Stampe biplane has only ~100 kts maximum speed, and usually flies at 70-80 kts in normal operations. It is about 1/3 of 250 kts, and only ~10% of its ram air power: (75/250)^2 = 0.09

Rather to make calculations, compare your video with this one, it will most efficient and obvious imo : https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/67848-game-version-4504-discussion-rough-terrain-visualization-new-cockpit-sounding-gfx-improvements-and-other/?do=findComment&comment=1037628

 

The new wind sound is too high in ww2 planes now and not only a bit imo.

Edited by Otto_bann
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37 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

I hope you've got the point that I made this test at 250 kts = 460 kph?

 

9 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

compare your video with this one

 

Looks like you didn't...

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I don't know what's more realistic, the recordings from the real cockpits or the human ear. I do know most guys love the sound of a powerful engine (exhaust thereof) and I personally find the predominance now of the wind noise very tiring. I'm not saying it shouldn't be there, just that the engine should be a few levels higher (say 4:1 ratio instead of 1:1).

As always, options rule so maybe put the various sounds on volume sliders so we can adjust to suit personal tastes. :)

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19 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:

As always, options rule so maybe put the various sounds on volume sliders so we can adjust to suit personal tastes.

Just like you can do in the real world, right?

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3 minutes ago, Elem said:

Just like you can do in the real world, right?


To a degree, by flying closed-cockpit vs open, earphones or helmet or just a cap. I'd certainly do everything I could to avoid that wind-rush noise, in the game it does my head in after a while.

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1 hour ago, AnPetrovich said:

Looks like you didn't...

 

Yes I do.


You can't admit the obvious and try to argue by calculations. Compare at all speeds you want, your level of wind noise is too high or may be it was made rather for Flying Circus at 1st.

 

Other comparisons  (the wind noise is barely audible or not at all):

 

https://youtu.be/JGhMGQst4lo

https://youtu.be/HUwZwAJovoI

 

Like many others, I don't play for 15 minutes or 1/2 hour. If I play it is for 2 hours sometimes more. This sound is unbearable during these long sessions for me now. So I no longer use IL2 (I used it almost every day since many  years) and I just ordered Normandy few time ago...

 

I will never be trapped by any pre-order again.

 

 

Edited by Otto_bann
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I've just done several tests with the whole FW 190 family and I have absolutely no problems with Otto. 
I had fun from 10,000 m on full throttle, switching off my engine, slowly then violently diving with or without the engine, starting again in candle light until stalling, re-diving, cockpit open or closed, tilting my head to the right or left, starting in a tight turn, in short all possible situations.

And for me the result is much better than before the patch.  

I can hear very well the sound of the engines (maybe a little lack of bass) but most of all I can now hear much better the sound of the wind which depends a lot on the speed. Under 200, 250 km/h the sound is relatively discreet but after 250, it becomes much more present and increases gradually.  It becomes a good indicator of the wind speed between the 250 km/h and the 700 km/h that I almost reached.

So of course, this is subject to debate according to our own perception of things, our own real experience, etc... 

I will continue my tests.

 

 

 

Edited by Pollux
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I checked Spitfire Mk. V yesterday. Canopy closed, 2650 RPM, boots +7. Engine barely audible but wind sound quite loud. With 2850 RPM, full boost it is the same. I even flew on overboost for quite some time without noticing it because I could not hear the engine. And that is quite annoying because you can't tell what engine settings you are on in the combat conditions by just listening to the engine and not looking at the instruments.

On the contrary in LA5 the engine/wind noise ratio is different. Engine sound is much more audible and wind ratio also ok. So for some aircraft the sound rework is fine but for others it is worse. This may explain quite extreme opinions on the sound/wind feature rework.

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41Sqn_Skipper
8 minutes ago, 56RAF_Cina said:

I checked Spitfire Mk. V yesterday. Canopy closed, 2650 RPM, boots +7. Engine barely audible but wind sound quite loud. With 2850 RPM, full boost it is the same. I even flew on overboost for quite some time without noticing it because I could not hear the engine. And that is quite annoying because you can't tell what engine settings you are on in the combat conditions by just listening to the engine and not looking at the instruments.

On the contrary in LA5 the engine/wind noise ratio is different. Engine sound is much more audible and wind ratio also ok. So for some aircraft the sound rework is fine but for others it is worse. This may explain quite extreme opinions on the sound/wind feature rework.

 

Totally agree on that observation. Keep in mind that the engine sound is the only feedback we have to "feel" the engine condition. In real life you have the sound and in addition you have small changes in vibration and acceleration that you can "feel". We don't have that in the simulation, so a strong engine sound is even more important.

 

Just like we need strong wind noise to "feel" the speed. So I'd say the rework is a really good feature, but there might be some tweaking necessary for some of the aircraft/engines. 

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11 minutes ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

So I'd say the rework is a really good feature, but there might be some tweaking necessary for some of the aircraft/engines. 

I think this too.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute::salute:

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12 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:


Hi!
Thank you for your feedback!

I did not expect the airspeed more than 250 kts because of 14 CFR :rolleyes: therefore I made a quick test at this speed (which is 460 km/h).


Please watch this video and say what do you think. Thank you!
 

 

Fantastic.  Very much enjoy your work!  :)

 

P.S.  For info, my in-game sound setting is 100%.  I also use haptic feedback earphones and a JetPad with SimShaker for Wings software which is a great help with immersion to enjoy your good works.  Thank you.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Edited by Talisman
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To me it seems like the video shows a sound sample of free rushing air, rather than the much deeper battering sound of air constantly smashing into the Perspex of the canopy.

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Perhaps everybody giving an opinion about the sound levels should tell us his age? Maybe that hissing sound of the wind has high frequencies we older guys just don't hear? I am 61, and for me the wind is not too loud ...

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335th_grFirdimigdi
43 minutes ago, 216th_Nocke said:

Maybe that hissing sound of the wind has high frequencies we older guys just don't hear? I am 61, and for me the wind is not too loud ...

 

Actually it might be productive if what sort of hardware was used is mentioned. Headphones (open/closed makes a huge difference - apart from going to driver size, etc) and speakers all have different dynamic ranges and frequency responses. In games like Elite Dangerous, which is known for its spectacular sound design, they have an option for the dynamic range for this exact reason. Sound design is a very tricky thing and IMO it's near impossible to have a one-size-fits-all result unfortunately.

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17 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

If I select a P-39 in Quick Mission builder with a US skin, I still hear Russian comms. I thought I would get the US pilot if I picked the US skin? Or does that only work in Career or Single mission modes?

The plane is from the battle for Kuban package, so the Soviet pilot is put in. 

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itsbillyfrazier

My experience with the new sound improvements is limited to just the FW190-A8 so far.

 

My thoughts:

 

I think the new sound improvements generally work well. The wind noise in flight seems more realistic and I don't believe it to be too loud as others have reported.

 

My only gripe is that there is no sound muffling of the engine when the canopy is open or closed while stationary on the runway. Pretty sure this was more noticeable prior to this update.

 

I have opened and closed the canopy while in flight and the muffling of sound works better while in flight  (wind noise only, engine seems the same). 

 

My sound setup: Focusrite Scarlett i4 1st gen (External Sound card) coupled with Bayer Dynamic MMX 300 Headset.

 

I'll try test a few different birds later and update again if my experience differs.

 

Overall a great update Devs and any sound improvements are greatly appreciated as this is an area of the sim I think needs a little more TLC. 

 

All the best,

 

Billy.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

Hi Kestrel,

 

I challenge anyone to use my simulator since the new patch at your values. The volume of my Windows is 50% and the one of the game at 10%. And I already can't stay flying 1 hour.

 

My headset is a Logitech G432 and I tried to remove the Surround and play with the other settings but nothing has improved my problem so far. I gonna try with an other headset soon, but I don't noticed any change on my other softs.

 

I can't use IL2 anymore in current conditions.

 

For a long time I have understood that 100% in game volume is recommended to get full fidelity of sound

 

and to moderate volume in Windows or sound card/speakers to get desired/preferred loudness 

 

It does not seem that you are using these settings 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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On 12/17/2020 at 4:25 AM, Beebop said:

I'm confused.  Is the "unprepared field" fix in this update?

I ask because I still can't take off. 

I restarted after the update and tested the Po-2 on Lapino Summer landing in a large open field.  The landing was rough but the plane survived without damage and the wheels aren't up to the hubs.  And although it was very bumpy I was able to get off the ground albeit it took some time to get airborne.

But on subsequent attempts I can not get off the ground.  I can get to a max of 40KPH but no faster.  If I hit a big "dirt clod" the plane slow to 25~30 KPH and won't pick up any more speed.  I finally had engine failure trying to take off.

So are only some areas takeoff friendly?  If so what are the parameters?  Is it only on the Arras map? 

Am I doing something wrong or do I misunderstand that this "fix" is in this update??  

This would open up a world of possibilities for the mission builder.

 

Nevermind.  I figured it out.  I have to turn Terrain roughness to "Off".

I don't mean to me snarky but again we are given a feature with barely an explanation of how it works, just that it can be adjusted.  I'm not asking for detailed instructions on every little thing but this is a feature that many users, both flyers and tankers would use.

"The detail of this visualization can be adjusted or completely disabled and works at ‘Medium’ or better graphics settings preset;"
Which makes no mention of the dialog box 'Terrain roughness' or what those settings mean in the Graphics settings menu.  I know, I know, we are expected to be smart enough to figure that out.  Has anyone looked at the kinds of questions asked here?   A lot of folks are kind of clueless including most of us when we started.  I always wonder how many potential long term customers were lost because they got frustrated with not being able to figure the basics out and looking for but not finding an FAQ of some kind.

 

I know, STFU and learn, like you did, by trial and error.  I love this game but sometimes I could just scream!🤬

 

Just tried a few landing/ takoff on terrain in uv2 - even with terrain roughness off i cant manage to take off from the flat grassy fields. Brown fields landing manageable, take off impossible due to freshly plowed.  Finding a field with slight downhill slope seems better, still very (unrealistic?) hard to get of the ground. Would really like this feature to  be extended, it opens whole new possibilities for mission design and overall experience, but at this state still seems a bit to hard.

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PatrickAWlson

Per wind noise: different systems producing different effects?  Posting system specs around sound might help.  Maybe there is a commonality in the systems having issues.

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cardboard_killer
3 hours ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

Keep in mind that the engine sound is the only feedback we have to "feel" the engine condition. I

 

I think this is very important to keep in mind for the developers. It's certainly a place where realism needs to be sacrificed for gameplay.

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Just now, cardboard_killer said:

 

I think this is very important to keep in mind for the developers. It's certainly a place where realism needs to be sacrificed for gameplay.

If I'm limping home the wind noise isn't that audible, 

 

Really the only time the wind was loud for me was in a dive or when I was flying quite fast 

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II/JG17_HerrMurf
8 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

 

Thanks for this video.

 

I would be so happy if I had your video sound in my simulator.

 

I hear that the engine noise is clearly higher than the wind noise that you can barely hear. It's rather the opposite in my simulator.

 

The wind noise in a closed cockpit is very lower beside the one of a  ~1500 HP engine with free exhaust at 6 feet of the pilot's head with a closed helmet, it's obvious and your video prove it.

 

This "improvement" should be probably most adapted for planes with small engines and with open cockpits like the ones of WW1. I flew in a Stampe one time (biplane with open cockpit and I had a closed helmet) and yes, the wind noise looks like a bit at what I hear in my IL2 now.

 

The 1st goal of this change was perhaps to improve the sounds in Flying Circus. If it is the case it has been at the detriment of the WW2 aircraft sounds, not at all realistic, with this wind noise so high now.

 

I hadn't thought of the effect in both iterations of the sim. I can see how it would be very desireable, as is, with open cockpits .So, yes, someone elses idea of being able to adjust in the GUI might be the best solution. Maybe not a slider but high, mid and low settings for engine sounds and wind sounds.

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7 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

I hope you've got the point that I made this test at 250 kts = 460 kph? Most likely this is the maximum airspeed that you may experience in the US taking the ride.

This is key, now all of a sudden we have few  experts pilots that now how loud or quiet plane are, love the complaints, my ears hurt, I am getting tired and cannot play IL2 anymore? 

Someone can get ride on a P51 once, and become an expert, did you dive to 400mph?

 

Wind sounds are great in game, if at all they should be even louder at top speeds.

How do I know? the wind noise saved my life when I was a beginner pilot, and tried descend thru a hole in the clouds (clouds do move) and I dove towards the hole, in a high bank angle, was starting to spiral and fixated on the hole, wind noise became super loud, this is when I looked at the ASI , was over redline I assume more than 400KPH, I straightened the aircraft , pulled power , and started to pull very gently ,so my first instrument meteorological experience was at VNE (never exceed speed) on a bank (scary).

 

Wind noise is loud and gives a pilot a cue of the speed, want a sim , want to experience how it was, this is how it should be.

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3 hours ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

My experience with the new sound improvements is limited to just the FW190-A8 so far.

 

My thoughts:

 

I think the new sound improvements generally work well. The wind noise in flight seems more realistic and I don't believe it to be too loud as others have reported.

 

My only gripe is that there is no sound muffling of the engine when the canopy is open or closed while stationary on the runway. Pretty sure this was more noticeable prior to this update.

 

I have opened and closed the canopy while in flight and the muffling of sound works better while in flight  (wind noise only, engine seems the same). 

 

My sound setup: Focusrite Scarlett i4 1st gen (External Sound card) coupled with Bayer Dynamic MMX 300 Headset.

 

I'll try test a few different birds later and update again if my experience differs.

 

Overall a great update Devs and any sound improvements are greatly appreciated as this is an area of the sim I think needs a little more TLC. 

 

All the best,

 

Billy.


Thanks, Billy!
Unfortunately we don't have any difference of engine sound on the parking area with opened or closed cockpit in the sim, and we didn't have this difference before. I very hope we will improve this in the future. So, don't spend time to test it, this is known issue for us. As well as a wrong difference between outside and inside (with open cockpit) engine sound on the parking. It's hard to improve as far as I know. But we're keeping hope.

Moreover, there are unique engine sounds for each aircraft / engine model, but for the wind there is only one (same) sound. This is another challenge for us in achieving the right balance. We tried to do everything in our power in this circumstances.

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I had a chance to fly the P-51 last night for a couple of hours. As Dakpilot mentioned, my ingame sound settings were at 100% and the volume adjusted in Win10. I was wearing noise canceling headphones. The engine sounded normal enough to me. The wind was not overpowering in volume in my opinion. 

The ground roughness is a nice addition. I belly landed on what appeared to be a smooth field. The bumping effect was well done. The Mustang was pretty beat up

when it came to a stop. 
 

The sim continues to mature. And improve. Contrary to a previous poster’s opinion, I’m not going to take my ball and go home because everything isn’t exactly the way I want it to be. I’ll continue to pre-order as long as it’s financially possible to do.

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42 minutes ago, 8ELT_Grzesiek said:

I understand that it is impossible to turn off or reduce the noise of the air surrounding the plane?


Yes, it is.
You can only adjust the common level of all sounds ingame.
Maybe one day we will add this feature to the options. As I see some ask us about it, and I know that Jason very like this solution. Although I personally prefer to keep the balance of sound the same for all players (continuing to work to improve). I think that any 'sliders' here will destroy the immersion and will lead to cheats. But maybe I'm wrong.

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Jaegermeister
8 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

Looks like you didn't...

You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but in this case, not happening....

 

Without getting into minute details, I think it sounds great. I don't fly 1000 HP planes very often, but I know when I ride my motorcycle at 90 mph, I can't even hear the music from my headphones that are literally crammed against my ears because the wind noise is too loud.

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Yesterday had also a blast with my squadron mates. Being able to "hear" the wind in the cockpit gives you a better feel of speed. Reminds me of when I speed up in my bicycle when I was a kid 😄

 

None of us thougth of it as excesive. Maybe some people have wrong audio settings.
 

Keep up the good work!

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10 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:


Yes, it is.
You can only adjust the common level of all sounds ingame.
Maybe one day we will add this feature to the options. As I see some ask us about it, and I know that Jason very like this solution. Although I personally prefer to keep the balance of sound the same for all players and work on more realistic sound. I think that any 'sliders' here will destroy the immersion and will lead to cheats. But maybe I'm wrong.

Totally agree with you here. It might not please people but it is fair. In some other games people used exactly this for their advantage with sliders etc. and naturally there will be a sort of people that would abuse this.

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6./ZG26_Custard

I think it's important to remember there has to be a balance regarding what is realistic and what isn't for any flight simulation. If you want to go for full realism, according to pilots that actually flew in World War II, it was very difficult to hear anything other than the roar of the engine. In fact the constant roaring noise had a detrimental effect on the pilots after long flights and that's not even mentioning the effect of vibration. I think a good balance has been achieved with the latest update and I'm sure a massive amount of work has gone into this endeavour. My ideal would be just to hear the roaring of the  engine, with very little in the way of hit noises on the aircraft and very subdued gun firing sounds. However, many folks want to hear the engines roaring,  guns sounding like cannons from hell and thundering impacts from enemy fire. All of the real pilots involved in the testing process stated the wind should actually be louder than what we now have in game. That's why I think a great balance been achieved. Thanks to developers for their continued hard work. 

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