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Game version 4.504 discussion: Rough terrain visualization, New cockpit sounding, GFX improvements and other


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SCG_FeuerFliegen
On 12/16/2020 at 10:04 PM, peregrine7 said:

The way you can hear the slip of the plane as the wind batters the left/right side of the cockpit (especially in flat sided cockpits like the 109) is huge. Wind batters at the leading side of the cockpit and buffets (as it separates) on the trailing side with whistling noises at the separation points.

 

This would be such a great addition for us to get.  Just like before the G meter, there was no realistic way to know how much forces your pilot felt, slide slip is the same way.  Yes there is the ball slip indicator, but you can't always look at that, especially focusing on something else at the time.  I have always wanted a way to be able to tell side slip in the way flying a real plane would be and not only by focusing on the slip indicator.

On 12/17/2020 at 1:11 AM, ksetuni said:

 

As I answered him in another reply, there is no "fix" needed since ALL aircraft pitch up when flaps are lowered. Its basic aerodynamics. Lowering the flaps causes the chord of the wing to change, thereby increasing lift and pitching the nose up. Some aircraft may be more noticeable than others. This is even more true with a fowler flap setup vs a split flap as the fowler travels aft and down. This is why we are taught early on in flight training to be ready for it, push the nose down or adjust trim to offset this.  Some aircraft even automatically adjust the trim as the flap positions are moved to save work by the pilot. I started flying when I was 15 and then spent over 25 years as an A&P.

 

This fool simply doesn't have a clue what he's talking about or knows what to expect.

 

Why does the La-5FN or the P-38 pitch down when you deploy flaps?  The P-38 even has fowler flaps.

Edited by SCG_FeuerFliegen
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7 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

Do you have any information that the opposite was true?

Hi Rapidus,
There's a discussion here:


I also thought that it was as you initially stated that it would nose up, however after doing further reading on the sources given by those in the thread and online quotes from current pilots, it does appear that she has a pretty strong tendancy to nose down when flaps are deployed.

literally my only criticism of the hurricane though, she's spot on otherwise, and i feel awful for criticising it at all to be fair because such a fab job was done of the plane.

Also, to add to the main thread, the publication quoted 1564A, is for the Hurricane Mk.I, the publication for the hurricane Mk.II is 1564 B&D and again this is repeated in this publication Under Section 2, paragraph 11, General Flying, Sub para (ii)

Change of Trim:
Undercarriage down - Nose slightly down (this is currently modelled correctly)
Flaps down - Nose Down (currently the issue)

Edited by Melonfish
edited for source.
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8 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

Ok, got it. Maybe we will make this correction you're asking for. Right after we reduce a force of gravity, just because it pulls airplanes down too much and this is obviously very annoying. :biggrin:

But no joke, wind has a huge power at high speed. And trust me, air is a REAL THING at a speed any higher than 200 - 300 km/h, especially as much as 500 - 600 km/h. It produses a very, VERY loud sound. Much louder than we have in the game.

 

I know it, I fly in real since 1982 on many plane types.

 

I noticed if I'm not alone to got this problem, I'm among a very few number.

 

But this would not be the first time that corrections are necessary after your upgrades... that's why I thought of a bug and hoped in a future correction.

 

It's no longer possible for me to play several hours as before and unfortunately, I have already pre-ordered Normandy like all time when a new operation theater is announced.

 

If I had known this problem I wouldn't  bought it. I wouldn't have bought it either if I could have read the mocking tone of your answer to my problem, that of a customer among the first.

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22 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

If I had known this problem I wouldn't  bought it. I wouldn't have bought it either if I could have read the mocking tone of your answer to my problem, that of a customer among the first.

Cheer up Otto😃. He’s not mocking you and he’s not ignoring you either. 

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Downloaded and installed without drama, all seems to okay after a brief test, thank you very much guys for the update, really appreciated.:drinks:

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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10 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:


Ok, got it. Maybe we will make this correction you're asking for. Right after we reduce a force of gravity, just because it pulls airplanes down too much and this is obviously very annoying. :biggrin:

But no joke, wind has a huge power at high speed. And trust me, air is a REAL THING at speed any higher than 200 - 300 km/h, especially as much as 500 - 600 km/h. It produses a very, VERY loud sound. Much louder than we have in the game.

 

Now imagine flying in old WW2 prop plane with very loud engine in front of your face. Yeah, the wind sound should be there but not louder than engine.

Modern planes have less loud engines.

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR

Wind sound is overdone and would fit perfectly for a glide mode with idle engine.

Pilots head gear-helmet would block off any external sounds not to mention wind.

Bump up engine roar levels would probably balance it out.

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Some additional tests on smoke and fire effects. Except village_smoke, city_fire and city_fire_small (I will call them the large smoke effects) all other smoke effect are influenced by wind direction and speed. But you can orient the large smoke effects plume, so as to be in the direction downwind. They will not change according to wind speed but it is ok. Their angle is in between, so at 0 windspeed it is awkward and at high windspeed too. As long as you choose around 5 to 7mt/sec its fine. 

The three large smoke effects will not be cut when you change your viewing direction. I mean if you  look in an opposite direction when you come back there is no cut-off effect, the complete smoke column is there. It is also visible from very far indeed and no flashing effects anymore. The smoke plume consistencies are stable. 

There is an exception and you will have flashing effects with village_smoke if you have a city_fire or city_fire_small nearby and the two smoke plumes mix together. This creates flashing effects on the village_smoke only. 

For the other smoke effects they are fine with wind but they all have a cutoff effect. This means that whenever the smoke plume is not visible on the screen the effect is stopped and it restarts when it is back in view. This may reduce resources but sometimes it can be disturbing. Anyway we can leave with it. As our  cpus and gpus get more powerful we could hope in the future for continuous effects as for the large ones.

 

 

I also tried the new cockpit sounds, flaps, gears, open and closed cockpit with engine on or off in flight etc. I consider  this update is an excellent improvement. Engine sounds even sound better, or this is my feeling. Anyhow the sounds are now at a very good level of immersiveness. In metallic structure fighters the cockpit sounds are deafening so complaining it is too loud is not correct. Sounds are very very loud in the cockpit. The bare metal structure amplifies sounds. I used when flying, a professional jet fighter pilot helmet (see my thumbnail picture) with sound suppression but it was one of the first sound suppression systems very expensive at the time and maybe not effective as today, but even then after an hour flight I had to adapt to the normal sounds. At idle no problem or low cruise power it is just ok, but at 75% power its already very loud. And I did not have a 2000 horsepower engine, just behind the cockpit front firewall. Believe me,  this is only one aspect of the  whole picture. I have a lot of respect for WWII fighter pilots that went out day after day for combat flying in harsh, difficult conditions and with machines that were sometimes well worn out. Not only you needed to have an excellent physical condition, but a mental and will of stainless steel,  otherwise you did not last long.

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8 hours ago, ronny_schmidt*93 said:

Just today I was going to start playing again after a while and I found the update, I downloaded it and the performance went to the floor, very low fps when there is some kind of action and way too many stuttering. I do not know if it is a coincidence or it was because of the update, if someone has any information or the same thing is happening to them please share it because now for me it is simply unplayable and I really enjoy it a lot

 

In the past when I had this I found I usually needed to update my GFX drivers, Might be worth a check.

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  • 1CGS
2 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

 

I know it, I fly in real since 1982 on many plane types.

 

I noticed if I'm not alone to got this problem, I'm among a very few number.

 

But this would not be the first time that corrections are necessary after your upgrades... that's why I thought of a bug and hoped in a future correction.

 

It's no longer possible for me to play several hours as before and unfortunately, I have already pre-ordered Normandy like all time when a new operation theater is announced.

 

If I had known this problem I wouldn't  bought it. I wouldn't have bought it either if I could have read the mocking tone of your answer to my problem, that of a customer among the first.


We try to make this sim as close to reality as we can. To give you a feeling of real flight and what the air war was.
The sound environment is a big thing. It makes difference.

These changes of sound were initiated by me almost accidentally. We didn't plan them. So you can blame me for this.
But as a real pilot I would like to have the ram air noise informative. I would like to have the feeling of airspeed, and I would like to give this feeling to you. I personally would like to have this noise even more informative (which means louder at high speed), but we understand our limits and the fact that we develop a game for fun.

Therefore, when we are talking about "feeling" there is always a room for compromises. We try to do our best here.

I'm sorry that you don't like the new sound. If my produccer ask me or our sound artist Valery (with whom we made these changes) to readjust sound and reduce this noise then we will do this for sure. With all respect to our customers. I just keep hope that we are still developing a simulator, not just a video game.

By the way, I'm also not young (have been flying since 1991) and I find that several hours in a raw playing a computer game is a liittle bit too much. But I appreciate your dedication to this sim, thank you!

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  • 1CGS
45 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Now imagine flying in old WW2 prop plane with very loud engine in front of your face. Yeah, the wind sound should be there but not louder than engine.

Modern planes have less loud engines.


A couple of questions:

1) Why do you think so? Do you have your own experience on those WW2 birds?

2) Did you try to switch off the engine in the game, to compare sound levels? If didn't - just try this. Any comments are appreciated.

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1 hour ago, AnPetrovich said:


A couple of questions:

1) Why do you think so? Do you have your own experience on those WW2 birds?

2) Did you try to switch off the engine in the game, to compare sound levels? If didn't - just try this. Any comments are appreciated.

 

1) Same question fro you, do you have your own experience on REAL WW2 birds? Or you just did it so the online pilots can have a "feeling of speed"?

2) I will check that and report back. Thanks.

 

And I reminder. Im your fan. Nothing personal here, lets just share thoughts so we can have the best possible experience.  🙂

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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4 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

1) Same question fro you, do you have your own experience on REAL WW2 birds?

I've sat in the back seat of a Spit & a T-6 Harvard. I think the new sounds are a more accurate reflection. 

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2 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

So you can blame me for this.

There's a LOT I'd like to blame the Dev team for like not having a better Mission Editor and no Westland Whirlwind. 😄  But the game is the best WWII simulator, (one might argue the best combat aviation simulator) around.   You can't please everybody but you do please me so THANK YOU :thank_you:for all your efforts!

2 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

We try to do our best here.

And you guys do a GREAT job.  And it's obvious.  You work on improvement not just for the flyer, but the tanker and VR user as well.  I sometimes wonder how you find time to add content.

 

But would ya hurry up on a flyable B-25?  Please?😁

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

I just keep hope that we are still developing a simulator, not just a video game.

This sentence is key, thanks for doing this, the wind sounds are very loud in real aircraft, specially at high speeds.

People who complain about the wind sound that have never been on a prop plane at 300KPH or faster, needs to be more open minded, sorry if you want to hear the engine, but its a simulator and from 300KPH onwards it gets very loud in real aircraft ,  its actually a good cue for the pilot (you dont fly looking at the airspeed indicator all the time, do you?).

WWII fighters  and military planes are also different than GA airplanes, Cessnas and Beechcraft have insulation for sound,  between the panels and the aluminum skin, some even have inflatable door seals, and they have less powerful engines, fighters are bare metal, no insulation so are a lot louder.

Part of the fatigue for the pilot was the loud engine and wind noise,  after a flight and landing everything feels very quiet , this is realistic now.

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2 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:


We try to make this sim as close to reality as we can. To give you a feeling of real flight and what the air war was.
The sound environment is a big thing. It makes difference.

These changes of sound were initiated by me almost accidentally. We didn't plan them. So you can blame me for this.
But as a real pilot I would like to have the ram air noise informative. I would like to have the feeling of airspeed, and I would like to give this feeling to you. I personally would like to have this noise even more informative (which means louder at high speed), but we understand our limits and the fact that we develop a game for fun.

Therefore, when we are talking about "feeling" there is always a room for compromises. We try to do our best here.

I'm sorry that you don't like the new sound. If my produccer ask me or our sound artist Valery (with whom we made these changes) to readjust sound and reduce this noise then we will do this for sure. With all respect to our customers. I just keep hope that we are still developing a simulator, not just a video game.

By the way, I'm also not young (have been flying since 1991) and I find that several hours in a raw playing a computer game is a liittle bit too much. But I appreciate your dedication to this sim, thank you!

 

Personally, the new sounds are excellent.

 

I think the critique coming from the unsatisfied players is based on the fact that everyone has their own immersion levels. If you look at the car simulators (Dirt rally, Project Cars, iRacing, etc) they all have at least 2 sound modifiers for, i.e. a) effects  b) engine, which allows the player to set them to the levels they feel represents their reality.

 

You have already introduced the Radio volume modifier. Why not go a bit further and add guns, engine, wind, effects, etc volume modifiers? 

 

In the Telemetry they are already independent and I can tune them to the separate levels  for the bass shaker. I think if you separate them in the sound domain you won't have any more complaints. 😄

 

 

 

 

 

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I haven't experienced the new sounds yet so no comment there. I really enjoy these clips. Outside of iL2 this is the closest I'll ever get to flying one. 

I don't know how well a camera would pick up wind noise in a cockpit though 

 

Would it be possible to take a page from the DCS book and have a similar sound option? 

If I recall they have an option to make afterburner sounds higher and a option for sounds to be as if wearing the helmet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DenumPenguin
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Sounds in cockpit are great.  I fly with in-game volume set at 100% as usual and no problems.  I can also easily communicate with my squad mates using TS3, including with cockpit canopy open.  Well done developers :)

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

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335th_grFirdimigdi

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but one thing to keep in mind when comparing to onboard videos is that microphones in action cameras usually have at minimum some sort of volume normalization function applied and often enough noise reduction filters and EQ - noise reduction will actively reduce hissing/wind sounds. This is something I've noticed with onboard race car videos which I can compare to RL experience, the sound of the air displacement from tires and the wind is missing to a large degree because of said filters.

Edited by Firdimigdi
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1 hour ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

1) Same question fro you, do you have your own experience on REAL WW2 birds? Or you just did it so the online pilots can have a "feeling of speed"?

 

Did you read the actual game update?

Quote

The second main feature is a nearly complete overhaul of the sound volume balance in the aircraft cockpits which was done with the help of pilots that have experience flying similar aircraft, resulting in a more realistic sound environment in the cockpit.

 

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42 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but one thing to keep in mind when comparing to onboard videos is that microphones in action cameras usually have at minimum some sort of volume normalization function applied and often enough noise reduction filters and EQ - noise reduction will actively reduce hissing/wind sounds. This is something I've noticed with onboard race car videos which I can compare to RL experience, the sound of the air displacement from tires and the wind is missing to a large degree because of said filters.


Yes, thank you. I should have added that! 

 

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1 hour ago, DenumPenguin said:

 

I don't know how well a camera would pick up wind noise in a cockpit though 

 

I would think at least as well as a microphone would shoot the video. 

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Will there, perhaps ,be another package under the tree during Christmas week? Ralphie  & me would like to know or at least hope...

67E29474-E22F-4957-86E6-224ED8043E5B.jpeg

Edited by Blitzen
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13 hours ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

The sim continues to blow me away...you guys deserve all the beer and mince pies you can get your hands on this Christmas 🍻

 

I'm seriously considering selling a kidney so I can upgrade the PC and get on the VR bandwagon. I feel like I have been missing out now for too long.

 

Mince pie, anyone?

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PatrickAWlson
20 hours ago, ACG_Konaber said:

31. Pilot AI won’t dive into the ground after receiving a command to attack a ground target if there is no ammo;

 

Why get rid of a feature? 😄

 

They only modified it.  The AI will still happily dive into the ground if it still has ammo (J/K ... I hope :) )

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14 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Will there, perhaps ,be another package under the tree during Christmas week? Ralph I’ve & me would like to know or at least hope...

67E29474-E22F-4957-86E6-224ED8043E5B.jpeg

"Mom, can I have a Mk108 cannon for Christmas?"
"No, son, you'll put your eye out!"

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10 hours ago, Bert_Foster said:

here is the 3 Ship video I referred to in my previous post. A really good representation of Engine versus Air Flow at various speeds as heard in the cockpit.

 

Just take into account with any in cockpit video

 

Where the camera is situated in relation to the Pilots head and

 

The microphone of the recording device will not have a wind muff on it like say a outdoor interviewer mic, yet alone a soft helmet with cans of which was the norm in the day which would reduce some of the noise in the pilots ears.  These points have been mentioned and at this point in time, the sound work is a work in progress and like the rest of this great franchise, to be improved over time. 

 

The Devs have given us a great starting point though for future reference and polishing and it lifts the level of realism higher.  Keep the feedback coming.

 

As a fellow sports motorcyclist who enjoys tracking - I also understand the relationship of wind noise at speed although with motorcycling, the powers that be regulated certain noise levels in helmet design as a means to discourage people from riding at excess speeds due to hearing discomfort and why all sports motorcyclists use ear plugs.  Helmets of today are quite noisy as a course and the best helmet at speed I had used was a Shoe back in the early 90's

 

The Hurricane is great in closed cockpit but the Tempest and Spit are lacking IMO.  The VVS rides and German planes sound great in closed cockpit scenarios.  Not tested all in open cockpit taxing situations but time will help there and Christmas is a busy time even with "The Virus" tm.  affecting everything.

 

The city fires are great but pay attention to Ground Attack Missions and give feedback and tracks on targets struck there and subsequent smoke / fire results.  Would be greatly appreciated with the feedback as in the past, for me, ground targets destruction dissipated very quickly making it more difficult to identify the area of interest and available targets.

 

Onward and upward and Happy New Year for the Devs -

Then Happy Christmas. 😁👍

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20201217171016_1.thumb.jpg.5dfaad9753e30f4c78cac6620756c617.jpg

Coming back to base, looking at this great panorama of far smoke

Looks great 

Thx to all who keep this sim up and evolving onwards.

 

Happy Christmas to all and stay safe

Edited by easterling77
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My solution:

 

If I don't like the noise I put on a set of headphones...

 

The sim is on speaker - the headphones aren't plugged in - I wear headphones to provide that realistic aviator ear protection.

 

Everyone else in the house hates me. But it is realistic.

 

P.S. Part of me does miss those unrealistic days when we could hear other aircraft from inside the cockpit... back before engine noise was realistically modelled... but it is better this way... and IMHO, having more wind noise and more noise from the wings near stalls will make it a lot easier to fly aircraft (especially WWI aircraft, and especially without TrackIR).

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Great work with the sound adjustments! It really added realism. I have only flown Cessnas and Pipers but even in those GA aircraft you can experience the ram air effect in dives. It especially adds something that was missing to the Bf 110 where the engine sounds are not so loud.

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II/JG17_HerrMurf
6 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:


A couple of questions:

1) Why do you think so? Do you have your own experience on those WW2 birds?

2) Did you try to switch off the engine in the game, to compare sound levels? If didn't - just try this. Any comments are appreciated.

 

Yup, I have stick time in both the AT-6 and P-51. I've flown aboard B-25's and B-17's. I've crewed in military helicopters (open and closed) as well as civilian helicopters (sealed cockpit). In none of them has the wind noise ever exceeded the engine noise or even been close. The P-51 engine was loud enough that I adjusted the intercom up a bit from where it was initally. The wind in game is now a bit overdone.

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