Command Attack MCU Question

[JG7_X-Man]

Is it possible to have a single object target multiple targets like this? If so, can someone please post a screen shot of such logic please?

 

Here is my test mission:

 

Test.rar

I would have thought each Target ID would fire down the list and trigger an attack command when available. Or I am I understanding now this MCU works incorrectly? If this is indeed how this is designed, is there a work around?

Edited November 24, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM, @Sketch, @Gambit21 et al, can some take at look why the command Attack isn't firing please?

[JimTM]

Some possibilities:

• Attack command may not accept multiple target for attack.
   
• The targets may be out of range.
  I haven't tested this, but I believe the range to target has an effect on bomber attacks on a target. The RoF editor manual lists some ranges according to the Priority setting (i.e., Low: 4km, Normal: 5km, High: 6km, and Ace: 7km). The settings are different in BoX but the Priority dependency may be similar. Try a test with the target a lot closer and see what happens.

 

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, JimTM said:

Some possibilities:

• Attack command may not accept multiple target for attack.
   
• The targets may be out of range.
  I haven't tested this, but I believe the range to target has an effect on bomber attacks on a target. The RoF editor manual lists some ranges according to the Priority setting (i.e., Low: 4km, Normal: 5km, High: 6km, and Ace: 7km). The settings are different in BoX but the Priority dependency may be similar. Try a test with the target a lot closer and see what happens.

 

@JimTMI have set an AI intercept flight to attack a bomber formation group this way and they intercept up to 200 Km away. I guess your 1st though is the issue.

In this case, can you think of a work around?

[JimTM]

30 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@JimTMI have set an AI intercept flight to attack a bomber formation group this way and they intercept up to 200 Km away. I guess your 1st though is the issue.

In this case, can you think of a work around?

 

Maybe create an attack command for each bomber with the following logic:

 

                                                                                     OL

Random Out 1  ---->  Activate Bomber 1  ------------------------------>  Bomber 1

          |                                                                                                         |

           --------->  Timer 2s  ----> Attack Bomber 1  ------------------------------

                                                             |                               TL

                                                             |  OL

                                                       Fighter

[Sketch]

21 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

Maybe create an attack command for each bomber with the following logic:

 

                                                                                     OL

Random Out 1  ---->  Activate Bomber 1  ------------------------------>  Bomber 1

          |                                                                                                         |

           --------->  Timer 2s  ----> Attack Bomber 1  ------------------------------

                                                             |                               TL

                                                             |  OL

                                                       Fighter

This is how I would do it. The four random outputs, are just pulses to events. So if the randomizer, chooses output 1, then both the bombers go to output 1's waypoints and the QRF fighters go to output 1's waypoints... And so on, and so on.

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch and @JimTM Thank you guys! You guys are spot on!! The above logic only works for an all AI fighter group to attack specific bomber groups. Question is how do I make this work with a flight that includes a "Player" aircraft that always spawns at mission start? I would like to set the "AUTO PILOT" and follow the leader until it's time to engage?

[JimTM]

16 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@Sketch and @JimTM Thank you guys! You guys are spot on!! The above logic only works for an all AI fighter group to attack specific bomber groups. Question is how do I make this work with a flight that includes a "Player" aircraft that always spawns at mission start? I would like to set the "AUTO PILOT" and follow the leader until it's time to engage?

 

The attack command in the logic above is object linked to the fighter leader (who is enabled by default in your mission). If your fighter is target-linked to the fighter leader then your AI autopilot will follow the leader.

Edited November 24, 2020 by JimTM

[Sketch]

I assume the player is a wingman and not the flight leader? A couple of ways you can do it...

 

Use onPlaneTookOff event from the plane leader, to the input of the randomizer, and from there, the randomizer chooses the output for both the bombers (that get activated after the players take off) and the player's flight group. Each time the player plays the mission, they'll have a different flight path and the bombers will have a different flight path too.

 

Maybe you want to give the bombers a a random flight and from there the player's flight group reacts to that random flight. So in this case, you do mission begin, to a deactivate, and the deactivate would deactivate a timer MCU that will be in front of each set of waypoints for the player's flight group. This will disable all of the player's flights groups waypoints.

 

That same mission begin would connect to the input of the randomizer, and the output of the randomizer would determine the bombers flight path and activate the correct set of waypoints for the player's flight group that would lead them to the bombers. When the player's flight group takes off, the onTookOff event would go to all waypoint sets, but because only one is active through the randomizer, the planes will know where to go.

 

Maybe the bombers get to a certain waypoint, and at the same time the players flight group is in the air and flying towards the last known position of the bombers. Once the bombers get to that waypoint we then connect it to the input of the randomizer, which then randomizes where the bombers are going to go, and also sets the correct set of waypoints for the player's flight group. You can add in a subtitle message to the player's flight group saying something along the lines of, "Enemy bombers spotted at XYZ, head towards them!" 

 

These are some just ideas to help you understand what you want to do, and how it can be presented to the player in a fun and engaging way. Either way, you'll need four sets of waypoints for the bombers and four sets of waypoints for the player's flight group after the randomizer.

 

This might be easier to explain via some examples and a video. Something I'll probably do tomorrow.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Sketch

[JG7_X-Man]

31 minutes ago, Sketch said:

I assume the player is a wingman and not the flight leader? A couple of ways you can do it...

 

Use onPlaneTookOff event from the plane leader, to the input of the randomizer, and from there, the (that get activated after the players take off) and the player's flight group.

 

... you'll need four sets of waypoints for the bombers and four sets of waypoints for the player's flight group after the randomizer.

 

This might be easier to explain via some examples and a video. Something I'll probably do tomorrow.

Thank you so much! I will play with the idea for a few hours to see if I can use the Test mission above with your idea.

Edited November 24, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Thank you so much! I will play with the idea for a few hours to see if I can use the Test mission above with your idea.

@Sketch - Nothing worked on my end! Looking forward to learning something new as I am sure others will be too!

[Sketch]

Alright, you twisted my arm! Here's a video on how to randomize the waypoints of the bomber flight and have enemy fighters fly to the correct randomized waypoint group. I explain two of the ways to do the randomization. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one way is to randomize the waypoints of the bomber group right at mission begin. This adds a ton of replayability, as the player will nearly always get something different out of the mission. The other way that I discuss is through a bomber's waypoint. This way, as I mentioned makes the game engaging and the player will nearly always get a different task to complete. Additionally, I've created an example group (that I'm using in my video) that you can use, reverse engineer, or whatever. If you have any questions, ask away and we'll try to help. Good luck! 

 

NOTE: The Player plane is not set to player. This is because you can only have one player plane in a mission (and I've made two different examples). Also, I didn't test it in a mission... but it ssshhooouuulllddd work. 

 

Randomize Waypoint Examples.zip

 

 

 

 

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch OutF##kingstanding! Thank you so much! With a single bomber group, the Command Attack will now work! This approach will definitely solve my issues making the "Player's" flight find any of the randomized bomber groups out side of the 50 km max range of the Command Attack Area. With randomizing the waypoints activated (either at mission begin or during the mission), the player will have the fun of flying over different areas of the map to engage. If I am not mistaken, the only B-25 unit on continent was 320 (Dutch) Squadron RAF out of B58/Melsbroek, Belgium so generating the same bomber group is historically correct for my purpose. 

 

I just need to get the sound effects imported as well! 

 

[JG1_Butzzell]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:41 PM, Sketch said:

Alright, you twisted my arm! Here's a video on how to randomize the waypoints of the bomber flight and have enemy fighters fly to the correct randomized waypoint group. I explain two of the ways to do the randomization. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one way is to randomize the waypoints of the bomber group right at mission begin. This adds a ton of replayability, as the player will nearly always get something different out of the mission. The other way that I discuss is through a bomber's waypoint. This way, as I mentioned makes the game engaging and the player will nearly always get a different task to complete. Additionally, I've created an example group (that I'm using in my video) that you can use, reverse engineer, or whatever. If you have any questions, ask away and we'll try to help. Good luck! 

 

NOTE: The Player plane is not set to player. This is because you can only have one player plane in a mission (and I've made two different examples). Also, I didn't test it in a mission... but it ssshhooouuulllddd work. 

 

Randomize Waypoint Examples.zip 6.78 kB · 1 download

 

S!

 

You can also make groups of different fighters and bombers all connected to the same waypoints. All planes are not enabled. You use a randomizer to activate one set of bombers and one set of fighters.  Increases the "box of chocolates" effect.

[Sketch]

36 minutes ago, JG1_Butzzell said:

You can also make groups of different fighters and bombers all connected to the same waypoints. All planes are not enabled. You use a randomizer to activate one set of bombers and one set of fighters.  Increases the "box of chocolates" effect.

While you can do this, I do not recommend it. You'll create dependencies that are unnecessary. As an example, say something went wrong with the way my bombers are moving or attacking things and I want to fix it by removing some of the waypoints or maybe adding more waypoints. Now, because the fighters also rely on the bomber's waypoints (a dependency), I must also go fix the fighters too. In this example, I'd only need to re-object link the fighters with the new waypoint adjustments.

 

If I keep the fighters separated from the bombers, I have no dependencies and I can also remove both the bombers and the fighters as groups. This can help with long mission editor load times (if some of the logic is to be imported later), and can help with maintenance too. If an game update happens, and it breaks something in my mission, I can go to that specific group and work on it. Additionally, if the fighters and bombers are separated, I can use them in other missions (as individuals).

[JG7_X-Man]

Sketch is on point. The Command: Cover MCU if very efficient so there is no need to tether the fighter escort to waypoints on and escort run. Having the escort at a different airfield and make them takeoff, meet the bombers at a rally point is very realistic. You can also randomize the escort or attacking groups. More importantly, multiple groups can't be used with the Command: Attack MCU so I am not a fan the multiple group idea that are designated to the "Player" to attack.

 

After the holidays, I will rework the primary mission (randomized bomber mission) and add a secondary mission for the escort fighters to attack ground targets of opportunity during egress. The trick will then be to have them breakoff the attack and rejoin the bombers again. Here is where we need drop tanks. In my tests Spit IXs out of RAF Evere ran out of fuel on an escort run to Munster.

 

I wish one could use randomized missions to create a campaign.

Edited November 26, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JG1_Butzzell]

6 hours ago, Sketch said:

While you can do this, I do not recommend it. You'll create dependencies that are unnecessary. As an example, say something went wrong with the way my bombers are moving or attacking things and I want to fix it by removing some of the waypoints or maybe adding more waypoints. Now, because the fighters also rely on the bomber's waypoints (a dependency), I must also go fix the fighters too. In this example, I'd only need to re-object link the fighters with the new waypoint adjustments.

 

If I keep the fighters separated from the bombers, I have no dependencies and I can also remove both the bombers and the fighters as groups. This can help with long mission editor load times (if some of the logic is to be imported later), and can help with maintenance too. If an game update happens, and it breaks something in my mission, I can go to that specific group and work on it. Additionally, if the fighters and bombers are separated, I can use them in other missions (as individuals).

S!  Sorry not to be more explicit.

 

In your example make a few more groups of fighters and have them use the same fighter waypoints. Make some more bomber groups and have them use the bomber waypoints. This limits you to just four pathways for fighters and bombers. 

 

You only activate one group of bombers and one group of fighters.  This gives you different fighters and bombers based on a randomizer and the second randomizer that picks the waypoints increases the probability of a different mission. 4 different bombers X 4 waypoint paths X 4 fighters X 4 waypoint paths = 256 possible different missions.

 

I used this in a series of ROF missions for a career with high replayability and making it not looked scripted.

[Sketch]

Ah yes, you're very right; we can randomize anything really. The bombers (entities), thier waypoints, what they bomb (cmdAttackTarget) or what area they bomb (cmdAttackArea), thier distress call (subtitle MCU from onDamaged), any mission status updates (subtitles from each waypoint), the targets the bombers should hit (entities), QRF planes (entities, spawn locations, all sorts of different things you can do with QRF), and aaa spawn locations (entities and spawn locations), and much much more.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Sketch

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch I have tried multiple ways to get the bombers to level bomb and fly to the correct waypoint but nothing is working.

This issue I am running into here is getting the bombers to the correct waypoint with OnBingoBombs Event msg. 

MyMission.rar

Edited December 1, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Sketch]

So I took a look at your mission, and these are some of the (very minor) mistakes you made, and can easily be fixed:

 

Only use one of the 'attack targets' logic. In your mission, you had both Attack Ground and Attack Ground Targets selected. Attack Ground means the bombers will drop bombs anywhere in the 1000 meter circle. Attack Ground Targets means you need to select ground targets that the bombers will attack. I normally just use Attack Ground because it feels more realistic. The Attack Ground Targets is like super precision bombing.

 

Making the bombers perform a level bombing action can be finicky. You need to make sure there's a large distance between your waypoint and the AttackArea MCU. I roughly give 5k or so distance. Also, the bombers should be 'heading to target' from the last waypoint to the AttackArea; which you have setup already, but worth mentioning. Finally, the AttackArea MCU needs to be high enough altitude to keep the bombers from dive bombing. As you can see, your AttackArea MCU is set to the ground, so the bombers will dive on the target and then drop bombs. Set it to 5000 meters (like the rest of the waypoints), and the bombers should level bomb. You may have to play with the distance and direction to get the ai to behave in the fashion you want.

 

 

This target link sends a pulse to the last waypoint, but it's not needed. You're pulsing the last waypoint with your onBingoBombs event. So right now the bombers are confused. "Do we go to the last waypoint right now (because of the target link from Gate 2) or do we go to the last waypoint when we run out of bombs? Screw it, we'll just do nothing but circle the attackArea MCU."

 

It should look more like this. We add an onBingoBombs event to all of the bombers. This way we're checking everyone to see if they're out of bombs, not just the leader. We hook it up to a 1 count counter that then pulses the last waypoint. This way, if anyone one of the bombers runs out of bombs, then all of the bombers will book it out of the area even if they still have 1 or 2 bombs left. 

 

 

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch Thank you a bunch! Tweaking it now!

8 hours ago, Sketch said:

 

This target link sends a pulse to the last waypoint, but it's not needed. You're pulsing the last waypoint with your onBingoBombs event. So right now the bombers are confused. "Do we go to the last waypoint right now (because of the target link from Gate 2) or do we go to the last waypoint when we run out of bombs? Screw it, we'll just do nothing but circle the attackArea MCU."

 

The issue with pulsing the last waypoint is to make sure the bombers end up there after the drop. Without the target link, my testing showed they randomly choose one of the four ending waypoints to fly to.

 

I am trying a report link as we speak.

 

That's why I add the Translator Subtitle to know exactly which one was being triggered. Can you help me with that?

Edited December 2, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Sketch]

You're right. We can fix it the same we decide which initial waypoints the bombers should choose.

 

 

First we need to add a gate (using a Timer MCU) for each waypoint. These gate will be target linked to each of the waypoints and you'll disable the gates, just like you disabled the initial waypoint gates. As a matter of fact, I'm using the same 'Deactivate all gates' logic as I'm using for the initial gates. With the gates deactivated, they will all be closed - meaning no pulses past the gate.

 

 

Then, just like the initial gates, we hook up each activator from the randomizer to each 'last waypoint gate'. This will activate only one gate, opening that gate only for pulsing. This is exactly what we need.

 

Then we do the onBingoBombs to a 1 count counter (as before), and that counter goes to each gate. This will pulse all of the gates, but remember only one gate will be activated from the randomizer.

 

The opened gate will then pulse the correct waypoint to tell the bombers to go to.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Sketch

[JG7_X-Man]

 

Solid tutorial!

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch I need your help please! If I wasn't already bald, I would have lost all my hair this past weekend! Grrr 

 

I have got my mission almost there - in testing, everything worked fine. Once I hoked up the randomizer, the B-25s aren't dropping their bombs anymore.

My guess is the issue is with the initial waypoints not triggering. I am 50% sure the issue is with the timing of the initial waypoints activating, but I am not sure what to tweak without screwing up the randomizer.

 

Do you mind taking a look please?

 

X_Mans Issue.rar

[Sketch]

One single download...

 

 

I guess that was enough eh? Your mission is very complex, but clean and easy to read. GOOD JOB! You had some issues, and I think it's because I set you slightly astray in my above post for the second set of waypoints. However, I have the mission working, and point out the issues in the video below.

 

 

 

And of course, here is the mission with my changes:

TestingRandomBombers.zip

 

Good luck and happy mission building!

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sketch

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch "Outf@#$ingstanding!" Thank you so much! I am being tripped up by the difference b/w pulsing and activating, I think the 100th time you explained it made it sink in! 

Thanks for the complement. I have seen enough of your work to mimic your design touch and boy does it make it easy to troubleshoot. 

Thank you so much for the advice on the on screen msg. I want to all players to have a fun experience, so keeping you high-end VR users in mind is now on my list.

I have @MarcoPegase44, @schwarzerHund, @E69_julian57 and @Megalax working on the skins for this single mission so I do hope it get's more than a single download.  LOL

You have already help me build the 2nd part of the mission for me (remember that Randomized Tempest AI flight and the Randomized train spawn?), I just have to implement them. 

 

I can't thank you enough for your patience and willingness to share your knowledge of the force! Happy Holidays!

[JG7_X-Man]

@Sketch Hi me again! 

In the prior version each bomber flight of 3 were attached to a single Command Attack Area - Ground and all 29 dropped. In your version only the 1st 3 flights Flights 4,5 and 6) drop. the 1st flight open their bomb bay doors but don't drop. Any advice you can give me? I tried increasing the counter but no dice.

 

I did notice you attached 3 flights to 1 Command Attack vs each flight given one each. If that's an issue I guess it will save some fps.

 

Thanks again.

Edited December 23, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Sketch]

I would put the individual cmdAttackArea for each flight back. I only made it a single cmdAttackArea for testing purposes.

 

Hmm... I would also increase the timer for when the bombers move to the second set of waypoints after dropping their bombs. This way, the first set bombers will still drop their bombs (and set off the 1 count onBingoBombs), but because of the delay, the second set of bombers will drop their bombs too, before all the bombers get 'assigned' to move to the second set of waypoints. I would start with 15 seconds or so.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Sketch
Pictures!

[DD_Friar]

@Sketch - Salute Sir,

 

I found this thread whilst looking for the randomizer, I just would like to use it to select a target brief for some bombers.

My map is a one-sided dogfight map (but could be a co-op). Each time the mission is run I what the players to be given a random target, one of x available. There will be no waypoints so the players (its for my squad) will have to navigate to the required target.

 

Please may I ask, is there a link to the randomizer as a saved group or could you provide a larger picture of the logic (I looked at the video you kindly provided above but could not see well enough)

 

Many thanks.

DD_Friar

[JimTM]

6 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

...

Please may I ask, is there a link to the randomizer as a saved group or could you provide a larger picture of the logic (I looked at the video you kindly provided above but could not see well enough)

...

 

Get the sample missions zip file in the post for the IL-2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Manual. There are three groups for three versions of the "Random Switch". Put these groups in your game /Missions directory (or a subfolder in that directory) and they will show up in the Objects Library under "Groups". Details for the Random Switch are on pg. 294-297 of the editor manual.

Edited August 11, 2022 by JimTM

[DD_Friar]

@JimTM

 

Salute Sir, many thanks, just what I was after.

 

(I wish they would sort the issue on the forum where you can not go to page 2 or more of search results, "You must wait x seconds for another search" grr.....)

[JimTM]

Just now, DD_Friar said:

@JimTM

 

Salute Sir, many thanks, just what I was after.

 

(I wish they would sort the issue on the forum where you can not go to page 2 or more of search results, "You must wait x seconds for another search" grr.....)

 

You can use the "Site" option in a Google search, which works much better.

E.g.: site: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com "random"

[DD_Friar]

@JimTM I did not know that. Every day a school day.