Is PWCG better than Career Mode?

[benchedgamer]

I like the career mode very much but some one stated in my last post that kills have meaning in PWCG. Just wonder if overall if PWCG is better than career mode.

[TheSNAFU]

I believe PWCG is superior for what I want from a dynamic campaign. I feel like it’s deeper and far more flexible in terms of letting me play the way I want to play. It gets incredible support from the creator, Pat Wilson and just gets better and better. The career mode is good, darn good in fact. It is probably a little more polished in some respects such as the GUI. But speaking for me only, PWCG is the only way I play the game. 

[OrLoK]

its different.

 

its well worth a try.

[Varibraun]

I agree with both comments above.  You should give it a try and see what you think.  I wrote a little more about it highlighting some of the differences in this post (read a few comments down in the post and Pat noted some additional features):

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Varibraun

[Yogiflight]

I think it was me, who told you about PWCG, so here is my answer to your question. Yes (short answer)

Longer answer, it always depends on what you want to have in your career/campaign. Different people have different things, they like. So you should think about, what you like in the game's career system and what you don't like. Then always try alternatives, like in that case PWCG, because only if you try it, you can see, if it fits better to what you like. Setting up PWCG is pretty easy, additionally there are some videos, Pat posted here in the PWCG section, which can give you some additional help.

I did some testing a few weeks ago, starting some careers in the game's career mode, but for me there are so many things missing and in fighter careers, missions, that are simply unrealistic (each mission in which you fly small circles for up to more than half an hour, especially in free hunt missions over enemy teritory, plus always low altitude), that it definitely is no alternative for me.

[PatrickAWlson]

I would say that PWCG certainly has some advantages and it is worth trying.  Better or not is subjective.

 

Years ago i developed the concept of virtual waypoints.  This allows AI flights to move along their mission path without spawning.  If spawns are triggered based on one location then IMHO the world seems stale.  You always have to go to the action - it never comes to you.  No surprises.  In PWCG mission you might be in a fight when another flight comes along.  Friendly to save the day?  Enemy to finish you off?  A bomber flight that represents a new opportunity?  You don't know.  Even I don't know what my own missions will produce.

 

With PWCG 9.0.0 every mission is based on ground activity, so every mission s tied to the world.  IMHO you can feel that.  Planes don't just conveniently appear for you to shoot at.  They are doing something.

 

PWCG tracks every pilot and every airplane.  A complex human and aircraft replacement algorithm transitions replacements into a depo and then to squadrons.  Delays in replacement are explicitly coded.  The result is that temporary shortages are felt.  

 

AI pilots improve over time.  This applies to all AI pilots, not just your squadron mates.  Losing a good pilot causes him to be replaced with a raw replacement.

 

There is a world outside of your missions.   This is one of the most complex aspects of PWCG.  When you submit a combat report the whole world turns.  AI pilots not involved in the mission go through simulated activity, so they might score a victory or be killed without being in your mission.   When you go on leave the same algorithm is is used to simulate activity while you are gone.  The rate of losses has a lot of detail behind it.  Some unit types incur greater losses than others.  Inexperienced pilots are more likely to be lost than experienced ones.  Lots of data goes into this.  I have written a simulator that tells me how any pilots are lost over the course of a campaign and compared that with historical results to ensure that it is realistic.

 

PWCG has a claim system that allows you to have some control over the victories that you are awarded.  If you decide that you don't want a victory (it crashed well after contact) then just don't claim it.  You can also help out your AI mates by not claiming - PWCG will give the victory to them instead.

 

PWCG allows you to have multiple pilots active in a campaign.  Need a break from being a fighter jock, create a dive bomber persona and do that for awhile.  This is really useful for somebody like me that wants to do these other activities periodically but really enjoys flying one thing (in my case fighters) most.  I can take a break from my usual and do some of the other things the sim offers without committing to a full career.

 

PWCG support both cooperative and competitive multiplayer modes.  The missions are coop missions but the pilots need not be on the same side.  Therefore people can fly with or against each other in a campaign setting.

 

In the end I am algorithms guy.  Most of PWCG's best parts are behind the scenes, not up front.  That level of detail should translate into an experience that just feels right.  You should not even know why exactly, but your experience should feel like you are an active participant in a book about a WWII pilot - with you as the pilot.  Whether that is a good thing or not is highly subjective.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by PatrickAWlson

[Madov]

Answer Yes

[Almenas]

Yes

[benchedgamer]

Everyone thank you. @Yogiflight Thank you for the PWCG intro. @Varibraun thank you for the other post. It made me move forward. @PatrickAWlson thank you for the work you have done. I wasnt going to spend the funds on the FC with no career mode but that might change.

[OrLoK]

wheres my thank you?

 

FC support (different app fyi) rocks. tbh id forgotten about it!

[dburne]

I enjoy both PWCG and Career Mode for what they offer.

I would give the nod to PWCG as far as depth. 

[Varibraun]

5 hours ago, benchedgamer said:

I wasnt going to spend the funds on the FC with no career mode but that might change.

 

@PatrickAWlson - Your response post below is a fantastic summary. Those of us who have been around for a while and that have followed your development posts probably instinctively know it, but It honestly took me some time to realize the differences in how PWCG works and what it does "under the hood." 

 

However, I don't think anyone new to PWCG can appreciate it without the type of overview your post here provides.  I think that is really a problem when it comes to marketing Flying Circus, where it seems to often get dismissed by potential buyers for not having a career mode.  The need to get PWCG in front of the WWI SP/Coop community is highlighted in @benchedgamer's statement above.  With all your and the team's work, I just hate it every time I see someone falsely post that "FC has no SP content and is really only for MP." 

 

So, from that perspective, I would like to make 3 "marketing" suggestions:

 

1.  That in the pinned FC PWCG topic you include your wonderful overview provided here in that very first post (along with the link back to the main PWCG Forum and the download website).  This will also give us a very good link to reference how a PWCG Career works for anyone asking these types of questions.

  

2.  The pinned post title changed to something like: "THE Career Campaign for Flying Circus - PWCG"  This would be a little more clear to anyone simply searching regarding a FC career, especially those who don't have anyone to personally ask and won't post on the forums (that was me back in RoF).

 

3.  I would love to see you do a Q&A interview with @ShamrockOneFive on Stormbirds about your work.  You really have a story to tell about the saga of PWCG.

 

Take this suggestion for what its worth, maybe nothing.  I just know that for me, PWCG keeps me flying & buying FC & BoX.  So, the more people that discover it, the better for the entire Great Battles genre - especially with what your Coop now provides for another separate MP playstyle.  From a selfish perspective, I have always been happy that @Jason_Williams is younger than me, and I really hope you are too...thanks again! 

 

 

[Yogiflight]

I would like to add one more suggestion to what @Varibraun posted above. Please ask Jason to pin your 'Video Thread', as your try to the moderators was not successful. But the 'Video Thread' is again going down in the thread roster, so new players hardly will see it.

[PatrickAWlson]

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I would like to add one more suggestion to what @Varibraun posted above. Please ask Jason to pin your 'Video Thread', as your try to the moderators was not successful. But the 'Video Thread' is again going down in the thread roster, so new players hardly will see it.

 

I have not been able to get in touch with anybody for awhile.  I did ask one of the moderators awhile back.  As an interim solution I linked the video thread from the pinned release thread.  

[Trotsky]

Answer: yes

[Semor76]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:52 PM, benchedgamer said:

I like the career mode very much but some one stated in my last post that kills have meaning in PWCG. Just wonder if overall if PWCG is better than career mode.

Yes. Simple and easy..Yes.

[SCG_motoadve]

2 minutes ago, Semor76 said:

Yes. Simple and easy..Yes.

Agreed 100% but problem is , there are problems, ie after action report does not work for me,so a career cannot keep going, also PWCG quits after making the mission, posted questions a couple of times, and never got a reply .

So stopped using PWCG.

[Varibraun]

@SCG_motoadve I am probably one of the less tech savvy in these forums, but I would try a deleting all previous versions of Java and PWCG.  Then be sure you install Java 64 (see post below) and then reinstall PWCG 9.0.  My system is pretty comparable to yours and it works with an easy alt-tab back and forth when I take off the Reverb between missions.

 

Thanks for all the great flight videos BTW!  Here is the Java 64 post (stay away from the big red button) - Good Luck:

 

 

[PatrickAWlson]

26 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Agreed 100% but problem is , there are problems, ie after action report does not work for me,so a career cannot keep going, also PWCG quits after making the mission, posted questions a couple of times, and never got a reply .

So stopped using PWCG.

 

Press "Report Error" and post the results.  If I missed acting on a previous post: apologies.

[SCG_motoadve]

4 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Press "Report Error" and post the results.  If I missed acting on a previous post: apologies.

No need to apologize, you do a great job.

Will try deleting old Java and old PWCG hope that fixes it.

If not I will post a report.

[Varibraun]

31 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Will try deleting old Java and old PWCG hope that fixes it.

 

Also, be sure that an IL2 update didn't disable your logs.  I think that was a problem for someone else here. 

[benchedgamer]

It took me a few times to get everything going but the answer is PWCG is better than career mode. Kills mean something and I don't about anyone else but I grow attached to the pilots I fly with.

[Spidey002]

I like it more than career mode after trying both. I think PWCG represents what I wanted from career mode. It reminds me a little of the old X-wing and TIE fighter campaigns, including ranks and medals. 
 

(If it only had a secret Order of the Fuhrer with secret tattoos, it would be JUST like TIE Fighter.) ?