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Invisible Planes Bug


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Problem is, yesterday I was looking directly at three planes and saw two disappear as I was watching them. I saw the exact moment. So it isn't something that starts on the ground and stays. 

 

I THINK it might be related to the clouds.

 

Has anyone seen this bug on a cloudless server?

35 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

I'm pretty sure what we did was cocking our guns. So yeah, it appears to be working.

 

I observed you guys firing, and the burst was quite long, same as gen markoff in Larners video awhile back.

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5 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

I'm pretty sure what we did was cocking our guns. So yeah, it appears to be working.

 

I did not, I only fired a burst.

 

19 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

Unfortunately I started recording AFTER they disappeared. Video posted when I get a chance.

 

I've just seen the track you sent us. Very disturbing. My video will follow in a while...

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6 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

If cocking really fixes this, why not petition the devs to build in an auto-cock at the end of engine start-up (or a second after spawning in the case of an air start).

Doesn't sound like too much work for them.. next update.

Not that I've any idea what an auto-cock is ?

No postcards required.


Don't think that it's a invisible until guns cocked scenario....think visibility "switches on and off" in the air based on what Talby said before...but I think cocking the guns or firing might "reset" the visibility. With my example Vs. Hotlead, he cocks the guns in anticipation a distance out, then re-cocks just before attacking...on my end he was invisible right up until the second time he cocked his guns 

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Okay, here is the incident from both points of view, quickly smashed together and, as always, pardon the 720p:

https://youtu.be/RzWjrQ_Lxuc

 

Right at the beginning weird things are happening to the second spad in formation.

Then there is me and then Drookasi shooting a very short burst.  I've shot like 4 bullets, no wild spraying that can be seen by Talbot's view. I believe Drookasi only fired very short burst, just to break the invis. What I see on Talby's view is fairytales from our POV.

---edit---

Trupo is visible all the time, then I pop up, then Drook.

 

---and more edit---

@US213_Talbot @J2_Trupobaw Don't know what skin Trupo had selected, but both me, Drook and you saw only the default D7F skin on him. Probaly some experimental version that did not find the way into the skinpack, selected by mistake. Both me and Drook were wearing custom skins you positively had. My guess is the game deletes some cache where custom skins are stored and doesn't update it. The moment, when it goes wrong, may be happening on the edge of the "bubble", as we saw discrepancies on spad #2. You saw ONE Fokker ALL the time, well beyond the icon range?

Edited by J2_Jakob
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11 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

No I saw all three right before I started recording. Then watched two disappear.

The recording starts right after they disappeared. 

 

That's where they entered the "bubble". (Very faint red icon says 8.61, when the recording starts...) Until then, the game probably doesn't care about custom skins at all. Maybe this is the boundary where they should kick in and they're not available.

I had to watch the original track again, as I started the video a bit too late. But when you are just about to get to the "icon-on" range (9.5), you BOTH disappear for a second, then reappear. I did have #1's skin, but I did not have #2's skin. Maybe this is only happening to D7(F?) - the ones with custom skins didn't reappear like the spads have.

 

 

1 hour ago, J2_Jakob said:

Okay, here is the incident from both points of view, quickly smashed together and, as always, pardon the 720p:

https://youtu.be/RzWjrQ_Lxuc

 

Right at the beginning weird things are happening to the second spad in formation.

Then there is me and then Drookasi shooting a very short burst.  I've shot like 4 bullets, no wild spraying that can be seen by Talbot's view. I believe asked Drookasi and verified he also fired only very short burst, just to break the invis. What I see on Talby's view is fairytales from our POV.

---edit---

Trupo is visible all the time, then I pop up, then Drook.

 

---and more edit---

@US213_Talbot @J2_Trupobaw Don't know what skin Trupo had selected, but both me, Drook and you saw only the default D7F skin on him. Probaly some experimental version that did not find the way into the skinpack, selected by mistake. Both me and Drook were wearing custom skins you positively had. My guess is the game deletes some cache where custom skins are stored and doesn't update it. The moment, when it goes wrong, may be happening on the edge of the "bubble", as we saw discrepancies on spad #2. You saw ONE Fokker ALL the time, well beyond the icon range?

 

 

Edited by J2_Jakob
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I'm just making a wild guess here, and an uneducated one at that so I won't be offended if it's called ridiculous.

 

 When making skins in ROF, weren't you required to make mipmaps when converting them to .dds files? If the problem is in rendering of skins in that "transition" period, is it possible that the lack of mipmaps could cause the issue?  :scratch_one-s_head:

 

 Again... just stabbing blindly.

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1 minute ago, J5_Gamecock said:

I'm just making a wild guess here, and an uneducated one at that so I won't be offended if it's called ridiculous.

 

 When making skins in ROF, weren't you required to make mipmaps when converting them to .dds files? If the problem is in rendering of skins in that "transition" period, is it possible that the lack of mipmaps could cause the issue?  :scratch_one-s_head:

 

 Again... just stabbing blindly.

 

I have suggested turning off skins for a period to see if the issue persists; but it was met with a resounding 'Nah'.

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2 hours ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

 

I have suggested turning off skins for a period to see if the issue persists; but it was met with a resounding 'Nah'.

 

When they're more interested in displaying custom liveries than analysing a problem, I say it reveals their motivation for playing in the first place.

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7 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

Because it has happened with default skins.

 

But, let's do it. All J5 has to do is run one month with skins locked.

 

I can support this proposal. Maybe the problem is irrelevant to custom skins but if a month of Flugpark with locked skins could help to either verify or exclude the possibility it would be a great contribution to on-line gaming.

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59 minutes ago, J2_Drookasi said:

 

I can support this proposal. Maybe the problem is irrelevant to custom skins but if a month of Flugpark with locked skins could help to either verify or exclude the possibility it would be a great contribution to on-line gaming.

 

Fully agreed!

It's a combat flight sim and not a beauty contest, so the priorities are clear I guess.

... even if probability that custom skins are the root cause of this problem is very low, the price for this analysis is too cheap for not giving it a try... With having constantly 70 Pilots flying probably 1 Sunday should be enough to run into invisible plane situations falsify the thesis or (if no issues reported) to take further steps look this direction!

 

 

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I'd like to propose a through experiment with 15-20 pilots - 2-3 German planes per airfield, going from all airfields that have D.VII (F if available), starting separately and forming up at set rally point. Some in custom skins, some not. Then have +-5 Entente pilots (also from different field) approach them. We should can check who see whom, see if cocking guns helps,  see if firing guns helps,  and end up with plenty of tracks from different points of view.

But yeah, the problem has been observed with default skins. Drookasi and Jakob were flying together when I joined the server, I took off and formed up with them separately. So the problem may still be caused by relative positioning, not skins.

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
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Can’t be certain, and I was just about to hit the record button, but;   last night on J5, locked skins, towards midnight GMT, when the server was about half full.  I was flying towards a team mate, I could see him in the distance, against the sky.  Using zoom, I’d just said to him that he was clear  (he’d just finished a scrap and was regaining altitude and sorting his bearings out) and there were no contacts anywhere near him, when two D VII’s appeared and attacked him, he (Oliver88 didn’t see them either)  It might just be that i missed them, but even though I was some distance/miles away and climbing towards him, I had a very good  wide angle view of the airspace around him, using the zoom button, despite the distance, as an object, if not distinctly identifiable as to type,, Oliver88 was very clear as a contact (no fuzzy edge of view indistinctness).  Not sure if the problem is one related to the skins or indeed, if the problem is distance based,  Oliver88 was close and I was quite far away.  It could be that we, both of us, just didn’t see them, from our two perspectives, can’t really say with any certainty.

Edited by HagarTheHorrible
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No, unfortunately not.  I usually only start the recorder when I think there might be some action, or danger, otherwise it has a habit of stopping at the most inopportune moment.  Oliver88 might have a better idea of who attacked him, and exactly what time, from his sortie log (he was a bit busy), 

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3 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

No, unfortunately not.  I usually only start the recorder when I think there might be some action, or danger, otherwise it has a habit of stopping at the most inopportune moment.  Oliver88 might have a better idea of who attacked him, and exactly what time, from his sortie log (he was a bit busy), 

 

I do not record the entire time for the same reason. I just start recordings to check for this bug when the archie is tagging someone and I am having trouble to see the aircraft.

 

As I said in another thread, no recordings just anecdotal from others. I have even less of an idea unfortunately as my first sign that anyone was near was the tracer and then they seemed to be at my low six. So for my part I could just have not noticed them due to getting my bearings and them then being in my low six as they engaged. As to the sortie log maybe this one http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/27836/?tour=9 as that's after Zatch departed (at 22:57 according to his sorties) and has me dealing with a simple scrap just before.

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We had another session of disappearance within our own squadron.

 

Results are as follows:

 

Drookasi is invisble. He cocks his guns. He's still invisible. Then he shoots his guns. He becomes visible.

 

Trupobaw is invisible. He shoots his handgun. He becomes visible.

 

They were both using ROF-based skins.

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3 minutes ago, J2_Bidu said:

We had another session of disappearance within our own squadron.

 

Results are as follows:

 

Drookasi is invisble. He cocks his guns. He's still invisible. Then he shoots his guns. He becomes visible.

 

Trupobaw is invisible. He shoots his handgun. He becomes visible.

 

They were both using ROF-based skins.

Could be it ? Interesting , now it should be easier to verify.

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Both Drookasi and I used our old RoF skins that were given brightness adjustment for FC (by just editing dds, since templates were lost). We are going to redo our personal skins from scratch in 4k, just in case.

Like bidu said, cocking your guns does not help, but firing the pistol does (and is a good way to maintain visibility without announcing your presence to anyone in 20 km),

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
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It is also interesting that in the recording it looks like I have shot one burst of 100 bullets. This is not the case. I only shot 3 bullets per gun, just a touch of my trigger and I have my bullet counters to confirm that. The same strange visual effect has happened in one of our encounters with US213_Talbot and Hunter when 2 out of our 3 DVIIfs were invisible to their 2 SPADs until we shot a short burst, but from their side this small burst looked like we held down our triggers for 10 seconds.

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15 minutes ago, J2_Drookasi said:

It is also interesting that in the recording it looks like I have shot one burst of 100 bullets. This is not the case. I only shot 3 bullets per gun, just a touch of my trigger and I have my bullet counters to confirm that. The same strange visual effect has happened in one of our encounters with US213_Talbot and Hunter when 2 out of our 3 DVIIfs were invisible to their 2 SPADs until we shot a short burst, but from their side this small burst looked like we held down our triggers for 10 seconds.

 

I noticed that.  In the video I have of you appearing on me, from a few weeks ago, you were firing far longer, and off target than seemed sensible.

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1 hour ago, J2_Drookasi said:

It is also interesting that in the recording it looks like I have shot one burst of 100 bullets. This is not the case. I only shot 3 bullets per gun, just a touch of my trigger and I have my bullet counters to confirm that. The same strange visual effect has happened in one of our encounters with US213_Talbot and Hunter when 2 out of our 3 DVIIfs were invisible to their 2 SPADs until we shot a short burst, but from their side this small burst looked like we held down our triggers for 10 seconds.

 

And this is probably not only limited to the recorded track. When you showed up suddenly 50m behind me, I was also seeing at least 10 seconds long burst! It was quite disturbing and made me change course slightly to the right. 😨😰

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Jason mentioned that people should send single player videos regarding visibility issues (spotting issues), saying that network issues could be affecting the multiplayer experience. What does that mean? What could be linked to the server and what could be linked to the netcode / dserver? Do they need to rewrite / clean the netcode or is this a server problem? Could the invisible planes bug be placed in the same bag as the 'network issues'?

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8 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

Jason mentioned that people should send single player videos regarding visibility issues (spotting issues), saying that network issues could be affecting the multiplayer experience. What does that mean? What could be linked to the server and what could be linked to the netcode / dserver? Do they need to rewrite / clean the netcode or is this a server problem? Could the invisible planes bug be placed in the same bag as the 'network issues'?

Since I am in more than 2 occasions the invisible DVIIf, I shall be flying my next sorties with only 'official' skins to see what happens. If no more invisibility occurs then we have a stronger evidence that the problem is skin related. If the invisibility insists, then the 'network issues' might come into consideration.

Edited by J2_Drookasi
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Same here, Larner.

Drookasi and I have high reproduction rate of the bug. It may be because we use RoF dds quickly doctored to be brighter, or something in our network connections.

Come to think of it, RoF required opening high ports in firewall manually to ensure synchronisation, otherwise really weird stuff happened. Including invisible planes. I'm pretty sure I never bothered with opening these for BoX, but it's worth investigating.

Tablot, can you identify on your track who were the two (out of three)  invisible pilots? I was flying well behind Drookasi and Jakob, Drookasi had skin with geometric pattern, Jakob was following Drookasi.

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30 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

I will take a look some time today.

 

Are you guys able to consistently replicate it yet? Because then we could really get some tests going.

 

I will try to replicate tonight if J2 pilots shall be available.

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Just racking my brains for how skins could affect this....wondering if it has anything to do with 2K skins.... 

Are the J2 skins 2K (as in 2048x2048), or are they just textured in 2K, and the actual image size is 4096x4096? 

It's really bizarre to me that this seemingly affects the D7 / D7F more than anything else by a long margin...

Edited by US93_Larner
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