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US93_Larner

Invisible Planes Bug

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Good question. 

Also noticed another FC bug report stating that D.VII F and Albatros (The two types we think are affected) have a 3rd skin 'list', as well as 'Default' and 'Custom'....this 3rd option being 'Multiple'. 

Not sure if related, but worth noting...

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Can someone with Mission editor - fu check what other planes have that mysterios third skin list? We could compare that with planes that were noticed to go invisible...

Edited by J2_Trupobaw

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The <multiple> option seems to have disappeared.

I've just replaced a DVIIf (Moscow map) that was stuck on <multiple> with a new one that is Ok.

Could they have changed this without the need to update ?

I think the Alby's are sorted now too.

 

EDIT : Just substituted Albs and DVIIf's on 2 Arras maps. Same as above - seems ok now.

Edited by Zooropa_Fly

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4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

The <multiple> option seems to have disappeared.

I've just replaced a DVIIf (Moscow map) that was stuck on <multiple> with a new one that is Ok.

Could they have changed this without the need to update ?

I think the Alby's are sorted now too.

 

EDIT : Just substituted Albs and DVIIf's on 2 Arras maps. Same as above - seems ok now.

 

Good news! I'll have to keep an eye out for invisiplanes, but hopefully the two issues were related!

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1 hour ago, 71st_AH_Rob_XR-R said:

Were those missions built before the last update?  Sometimes missions do not work as intended after an update.

 

No, last couple of weeks.

 

S!

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54 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

 

 I'll have to keep an eye out for invisiplanes


Isn’t that a bit of an ‘oxy“, you moron  😁🤯

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2 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:


Isn’t that a bit of an ‘oxy“, you moron  😁🤯

 

I've been rumbled 

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Last night squad members were flying and two were together in P-38s.  When a third came up to them he could only see one of them.  He began a track.  One of the two pilots said he would fire a short burst.  When he did he immediately appeared to the other pilot.

 

This is the same bug that existed in 2015 reported here:

 

 

EDIT:  We were flying on the Combat Box server.

 

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95
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I was never going to say anything, but I'm glad this thread popped up.  I had this happen to me a few weeks back on a Thursday night. Just out of nowhere, D7 on my 6 blasting away.  Sunday, had it happen again.. Anothet D7.  I quit after that and went back to my RoF career thinking to myself "at least I can spot planes before I get immediately killed".

 

I couldn't understand how I could be so utterly and completely blind online vs single player.  But maybe this was the reason?

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Looks like it happened yesterday at J5 Flugpark. I was tracking two D7Fs for a while. They turned on me and I even wrote on chat (below) that I was dragging two D7s over the mud. Then the screen became black out of nowhere and I asked if that was flak or if someone had jumped me. The time on the chat is wrong, because I waited several seconds for the blackout to go away before writing anything.

 

pXhrShd.jpg

 

It was a gentleman called J28w-Broccoli (I think he's due a Blue Max 👍) and he confirmed that he was the third D7 on the party (that I never saw while tracking those two for several minutes) that dove on my six.

 

Perhaps he came from my blind side, but it was weird, since I was tracking enemy contacts ahead of me and then behind of me for several minutes, the last D7 far away, so I was using zoom as well to search the sky. As far as I was concerned, the situation was under control. I was just extending to give some separation in between the two D7s to gamble first with the one closest to me. Never saw the third D7 coming. Note*, I'm glad that I kept my streak and Broccoli's Blue Max was due even before the incident, so in the end it did not hurt either of us, but these things need to be looked at.

 

It could also be another bug that I reported. But after the last update, things got even worse as you guys can see below. Those are two D7s and they are really never visible (happens with Albies as well, I believe with every plane), just at the last couple seconds, already jumping me.

 

Best viewed at 1440p for me.

 

 

Honestly, I never saw it so bad. Are the devs looking into it? Because they said that they were working on the bug when planes were disapearing about 2km (my bug report, I assume) and now, as you can see, things got even worse. Any news on the invisible planes?

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Looking through my track files earlier to make a video, I spotted another instance of the appearing D.VII F - it came as something of a relief, actually! Sizzlorr bounced a wingman and I, after I was positive I'd cleared the area around me, resulting in a fiery doom. I thought there was no way I couldn't have seen him - but the track revealed that I had become a victim of the invisible aircraft bug! 

 

Edited by US93_Larner

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Looks like it's been a problem since 2015 everywhere per the earlier post.  

 

On 11/23/2019 at 4:03 PM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

This is the same bug that existed in 2015 reported here:

 

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Got a D.VII vanilla today on track. I saw flak and started descending (had no idea why it was tagging my area), making circles to don't get too vulnerable, since I sensed it could well be an invisible Fokker. He came out of nowhere. Official skin, Rudolf Berthold.

 

Hard to fly like this. We either record every track to see what's goin on or we get busy flying. 

 

 

 

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Need to post mine from the other day. Larner could see this fokker but I couldn't. Quite comical.

 

First fight in this video.

 

 

Edited by US213_Talbot

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The way it is, there is no point for a v-life score. Leave just the kill scores for furballing. What's the point? I just found out that the bounce I suffered prior to that track was from the same player. So I assume he was invisible as well, because I saw nothing (I was looking for him, so I was not slaking). I got lucky because other people engaged him, so I was able to nurse it back to my field and have a successful landing. Not the second bounce though.

 

I was going to suggest banning the D7F for now, but the D7 vanilla is too important to be banned as well. Or the bug happens with other planes too?

 

It is hard to keep a streak that way (I guess I'll be flying just German now). And the worse is that visibility is so mediocre as of now that we either record every sortie to spot bugs or we assume that part of the bounces coming from nowhere are invisible planes.

 

What a mess. I hope 2020 brings some good news for us.

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This is unfortunately not a new bug and it seems to be difficult to track down as to what the cause is.

 

I had one instance flying a trio of Fw190s in a WWII server where I could see the leader Fw190, the leader could see two wingmates, but I could only see him. Only when the third fellow fired his guns did he appear. We were all on voice comms and quite confused as to why I couldn't see the other fellow. It was obvious to me, at least in this instance, that it was not cheating or attempts at malice and instead it seems to be a random chance kind of thing.

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Someone here unearthed a thread from 2015 reporting this bug, and then I'm not sure why this bug is dragging along with this game for half a decade. I have to go through the threads again, but I don’t recall seeing any explanation for that.

 

It seems to be frequent here in FC, as we can see that in just a couple replies today we had three incidents that happened recently, plus the old ones. Plus the ones we can’t say what it was because we were not recording a track. Looks like the missions are plagued with it, and we see flak with no planes all the time, in part because of the old cloud bug that was partially fixed recently, but nonetheless some of it could be invisible planes.

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I’ve “seen” the invisible aircraft thing a couple times in RoF. Once many moons ago in about 2012 or something then on WG with the AI HP400s a few years ago. You could hear them and see that they were shooting at you so you’d just aim at them the best you could and when one you r bullets hit them they’d suddenly appear. 
 

I not a programmer or anything but I wonder if it has something to do with net code or connection in all these sims... RoF BoS and FC.  Pardon my lack of technical knowledge. 

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I don’t understand anything about this, but I have a version 😉 Skins are often not loaded and the plane blinks nearby, if you look at it, then to the side.  It is very similar to the fact that in some conditions, the image of the aircraft itself is not loaded, just like the skin.

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39 minutes ago, Adam said:

I’ve “seen” the invisible aircraft thing a couple times in RoF. Once many moons ago in about 2012 or something then on WG with the AI HP400s a few years ago. You could hear them and see that they were shooting at you so you’d just aim at them the best you could and when one you r bullets hit them they’d suddenly appear. 
 

I not a programmer or anything but I wonder if it has something to do with net code or connection in all these sims... RoF BoS and FC.  Pardon my lack of technical knowledge. 

 

It might be netcode, because it happens to everyone, even who lives close to J5 Flugpark in Seattle. Me in particular, I just had one disco since I started playing FC, which I think was in 2018 since we got the first two planes.

 

Just now, emely said:

I don’t understand anything about this, but I have a version 😉 Skins are often not loaded and the plane blinks nearby, if you look at it, then to the side.  It is very similar to the fact that in some conditions, the image of the aircraft itself is not loaded, just like the skin.

 

With me happened with a D.VII with an official skin, loaded with the game. Then I think the skin theory is flawled.

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Given the number of sorties and flying hours, how often does this phenomena occur (I was going to say "appear" but knew better as soon as the word entered my mind)?

 

Ok stat wonks, let's quantify the frequency of this bug using data on the Flugpark parser as the largest data pool available for this purpose. 

 

Who will go to the parser and figure these numbers:

- documented occurances per total sorties flown by all pilots per month

- documented occurances per total flight hours flown by all pilots per month

Edited by J5_Baeumer
oops! changed appearances to occurances!

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I suppose that, for us to have accurate numbers, it would be necessary to gather at least 10 players willing to record every sortie, no exceptions made, and check every bounce or attack coming from nowhere. Then we could have a clear sample of the incidence of the invisible plane bug. But given the numbers of incidents reported, I imagine it is not happening once in a while, but frequently. Even if it happens a few missions apart, it is a serious bug in my opinion. 

 

Let's take me for a sample. I assume it happened at least three times in the span of the last three weeks [two confirmed]. Multiply that for the numbers of players attending J5 Flugpark... The result would be considerable.

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Well something interesting happened to us tonight. Myself and two others met up for some squadron training and used my PC as a host server. It took some time to get the port forwarding right but still we had to make sure everyone downloaded the map before entering or they would get an FTP error. Once in, my mates could not spawn in a plane. Eventually, everyone was able to spawn in on same field... but no one could see anyone sitting next to them. Starting engines, firing guns, nothing. We could see dust from bombs being dropped and their explosions. Could also see the dust and streak on the earth when a plane crashed on the field. If a plane crashed, or shot, where you were-nothing. 

 

We thought we might be on to something with this bug.

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3 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

Let's take me for a sample. I assume it happened at least three times in the span of the last three weeks [two confirmed]. Multiply that for the numbers of players attending J5 Flugpark... The result would be considerable.

 

Looking at your flying hours for the month (26) and sorties (59) for the same period as of the time of this post, 3 instances as reported by you would mean the phenomena occured once every 8.66 hours of flying, in 5% of your sorties.

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3 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

but still we had to make sure everyone downloaded the map before entering or they would get an FTP error

 

That suggests an entirely different problem and nothing to do with what's under discussion.

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47 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

That suggests an entirely different problem and nothing to do with what's under discussion.

 

Why do you have to be so obtuse ?  If you’d bothered reading his whole post, I appreciate that might just require a bit more of an attention span than you can manage, you will have realised that he was just setting the scene before going on to talk about invisible aircraft, that might, or might not, be linked to the issue. 

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4 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

Well something interesting happened to us tonight. Myself and two others met up for some squadron training and used my PC as a host server. It took some time to get the port forwarding right but still we had to make sure everyone downloaded the map before entering or they would get an FTP error. Once in, my mates could not spawn in a plane. Eventually, everyone was able to spawn in on same field... but no one could see anyone sitting next to them. Starting engines, firing guns, nothing. We could see dust from bombs being dropped and their explosions. Could also see the dust and streak on the earth when a plane crashed on the field. If a plane crashed, or shot, where you were-nothing. 

 

We thought we might be on to something with this bug.

I know this "problem" form long time ,reported it , I can reproduce it , devs are aware but there is  no solution - might be something with udp packets.  Unfortunately they didn't make it priority to fix, never  asked me to do debugging or just join my server when they can see it happening.

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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5 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

Looking at your flying hours for the month (26) and sorties (59) for the same period as of the time of this post, 3 instances as reported by you would mean the phenomena occured once every 8.66 hours of flying, in 5% of your sorties.

 

Better still, we could divide the total of hours flown on the server this month and divide by 8.66 hours just to have an estimate. And I would have to assume that I have at least one more incident other than the three I mentioned, but since it was not recorded, I’ll leave at that. 

 

With a small sample of the top 10 players in flying hours this month, we have 190 hours in total. Divided by 8.66, we have 22 probable incidents of invisible planes in December 2019 (this just within 10 players). We are on the 24th, so it would not be incorrect to say that the invisible plane bug happens every day on J5 Flugpark, more than once.

 

It is even worse than I imagined.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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4 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

That suggests an entirely different problem and nothing to do with what's under discussion.

 Just painting the whole picture there, chief.

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9 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

It is even worse than I imagined.

 

It's actually not, but it largely depends on a pilots perspective.   The more a person flies, the more they will experience this bug.  The  bug will be seen on servers more wherever the most players are flying for the most time.   The bug appears on all servers.  Over the long term, it's likely the case that the more someone flies, the more likely they are to encounter the bug wherever they are flying ( multiplayer).

 

But will a pilot even know they've encountered the bug?  Many players situational awaerenes is likely not good enough to see every plane within their proximity, especially when there are multiple planes in that proximity.  I've never experienced the bug, but that doesn't mean I've not encountered it.  I've flown many times over the 8.66 hours in FC.  I just haven't been aware of it.   I'm not a slouch with my SA but I'm not claiming to always see every plane every time in my proximity either.

 

"The plane you don't see is the plane that kills you", a famous pilot said once.

 

And what is the result of the bug?  Does it always result in a players death?  To be sure it has.  But always? Is it a automatic, guaranteed death sentence?  No. Many of.the videos establish that fact.

 

So we are to ban planes that are seen to be the biggest offender? (pun intended). No.  Logic would indicate that just as our experiencing the bug increases with our flight time , so too the most popular planes flown the longest hours would be most frequently associated with the bug.

 

Are virtual lives now to be hopelessly abandoned?   No.  There are several of.the best pilots who have attained remarkable success flying long.virtual lives, one of the longest over 30 hours.  Did the bug end any of those illustrious careers any more frequently than a pilots error in judgement, or a burst from an AI gunner, or an encounter with a better pilot or an encounter with a luckier inexperienced pilot, or a deadly unavoidable collision?

 

If.it sounds like I'm minimizing the seriousness of this bug, I don't.mean to.  It's been around since at.least 2015 in IC WWII servers and now in WWI servers and reportedly was experienced in Rise of.Flight.  It hasn't "ruined " the game. 

 

Immortality.guaranteed to be unattained? No.   And that is probably how.it should be.

 

Let us not think that the plane that does kill us must have been invisible.  Odds are it wasn't.

 

 

Edited by J5_Baeumer
fat fingers
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The problem with thinking that it's limited to the D7 is because the overwhelming majority of folks are flying those two types. You're more likely to see the bug happen with a D7 than the rest because sortie numbers.

 

Initially I was quite downtrodden about this bug thinking it was only limited to the FC scene. After having found out it is systemic to the series, I shrugged it off. I record any time I'm near the front and try to be extra vigilant these days. I often wonder if I am invisible and but a vapor to all other people, quite like AL does in real life. Sad.

 

 

Edited by US213_Talbot

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Yesterday something similar happend to me:

 

Wings of Liberty, 2 Bf-109

 

I was with my buddy, he spot an aircraft and report to me.

"3 o clock, high"

I saw nothing, so say to him to lead while I follow.

He start to chase him and in the meanwhile give to me information about that airplane, until he get close and recognise him as bf-109 as well.

 

I was behind my team mate, not more than 100m and I really cannot see anything in the sky!! 

 

Unfortunately I didn't record that flight, but was super wired...

 

 

And now I'm wondering if when I surprised some Yak from 8/4 o clock was his fault to be distracted or my super ability to get invisible... 😕

 

 

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I'm not a mathematician, so I can't determine if the frequency would be maintained only by flight hours, because a 40-player Sunday mission easily reaches 60/70 combined hours. That is, on a single Sunday mission we may have multiple incidents of invisible aircraft? I’m not sure, but in case yes, that in itself is a game changer (for the players). 

 

The v-life thing is, in my opinion, a random thing at this point unless we determine how the bug happens, if it is endemic to some planes, or skins, etc., especially for slow, low turn and burn fighters (we can't fly past and ignore it). Perhaps I could avoid clear areas and stick to my side of the mud and observe flak, dive whenever I see ‘empty flak’, but that’s not really immersive or realistic.

 

To me, I couldn't think of a worse bug, the same way people always prevented the idea of invisible skins for the obvious reasons. It would kill multiplayer. Hence why I’m not sure why this thing got dragged unfixed for so many years.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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