Game version 3.003 discussion: Battle of Bodenplatte Early Access

[Max_Damage]

Just now, Talon_ said:

 

I don't think you understand.

 

All the Spitfire LF IXes (like the one we have in game) would have run on +25lbs boost after Summer 1944. Thousands of them.

Thats very funny gl with that.

[Talon_]

2 minutes ago, JohanLoton said:

IIRC didn't most units convert back to 130 octane after accidents with the 150? 

 

You may be thinking of "pep" which was an alternate formation of 150. They converted back to regular 150.

 

source: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/atsce-28march45.pdf

Edited May 24, 2018 by Talon_

[PainGod85]

16 minutes ago, JohanLoton said:

IIRC didn't most units convert back to 130 octane after accidents with the 150? 

 

They did, briefly.

 

The timeline went something like this:

 

1. 150 octane fuel is supplied, but it tends to foul spark plugs more quickly than the traditional 100/130 juice.

2. An attempt is made to remedy this by increasing the content of ethylene dibromide. This fixes the issue with lead fouling of the spark plugs. Unfortunately, it also creates a much more pressing issue by corroding valves, leading to catastrophic engine failure. The problems start to arise around 30 days after the switch to the new type of 150 octane around the end of February/beginning of March 1945.

3. The 150 octane fuel gets thinned with untreated, raw 150 octane in order to reduce the amount of ethylene dibromide to previous, safe levels.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by PainGod85

[=621=Samikatz]

16 minutes ago, JohanLoton said:

IIRC didn't most units convert back to 130 octane after accidents with the 150? 

 

I know Spitfire XVIs with Packard engines had issues running at 25lbs and were limited to 18

[JG4_Sputnik]

Thanks for the update!
Would be cool to read about AI improvements soon

[smink1701]

Continuing the proud tradition of underpromising and overdelivering! 

 

I salute you!

[LLv34_Temuri]

New planes are nice
Planes that should have only the empty loadout available seem to still be able load bombs. Not nice

Static block durability still works funnily: you can destroy a hangar with 20 mm cannon, but not with 37 mm cannon. Not nice 

[Warpig]

Can't wait to try the planes!

 

Also can't wait for people to use the search function again so they can discuss their grievances using the proper channels.

[SARFlytitus]

WOW  Spit IX and G14 ... two in a row!!!

Fantastic ! 

Thanx Devs

[E69_geramos109]

3 hours ago, PainGod85 said:

So for some reason the 109's MAP decreases below 1.5 ATA at 2 km when it should have an FTH of around 6 km.

I'm thus far unsure whether that's an issue with the boost gauge or a genuine lack of power.

Yes. I have noticed that also. Do you have any information from the manual to give it to the devs? 

3 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I think it's because of the extra 3D model work it would have required (late engine cowling). I was looking to this variant too as it was quite numerous in the Bodenplatte operation. Hopefully they can include it in the future. The regular G-14 was also an important player though (the most numerous 109 variant, followed by the G-14/AS).

Although the AS is more of a sidegrade than a pure upgrade, it gives up a bit of low altitude speed and climbrate to have a better high alt performance.

I hope so, becuase on this era was the way to fight on alt with P51 and american planes. And there is no sense to not have this mod.  At least the devs should give some information about that 

[Dakpilot]

18 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

At least the devs should give some information about that 

 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[PainGod85]

21 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Yes. I have noticed that also. Do you have any information from the manual to give it to the devs? 

I hope so, becuase on this era was the way to fight on alt with P51 and american planes. And there is no sense to not have this mod.  At least the devs should give some information about that 

 

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that one's from a bench run.

 

Manifold air pressure should not drop before the second kink in the power curve.

 

This one's from a 109G with an ASM engine, which yields a higher critical altitude:

 

 

You can clearly see MAP staying constant up to its critical altitude.

 

And here's the corresponding data sheet for the 109 G with an AM or ASM engine:

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/Leistungen_g14u4_am-asm.html

Edited May 24, 2018 by PainGod85

[6./ZG26_Custard]

1 hour ago, PainGod85 said:

They did, briefly.

 

The timeline went something like this:

 

Here is a more in depth report on the use of 150 grade fuel 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

 

One section of interest is here.

 

On 18 September 1944 A.D.G.B. very positively summarized the experience gained to date using 100/150 grade fuel. However, due primarily to logistical difficulties, such as the interchange of squadrons between A.D.G.B. and 2nd T.A.F., it was decided that UK based fighter squadrons should revert to the use of 130 grade fuel.  it’s uncertain as to the degree to which this decision was carried out as of November 1944 Fighter Command was still using 2,000 tons of 150 grade fuel per month.  With the adoption of 150 grade fuel by the Second Tactical Air Force, any logistical difficulties to Air Defense of Great Britain (A.D.G.B.) use of 150 grade fuel were removed. By early 1945, United Kingdom based Mustangs of A.D.G.B. were operating at +25 lbs/sq.in/80" hg. with 150 grade fuel on operations over the continent and Germany.  Eventually all Rolls-Royce Merlin and Griffon engines were cleared to operate on 150 grade fuel, as well as Centaurus, Hercules, Sabre II and Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp engines.  

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Can't wait to be able to fly these in MP! Homework might just have to wait tonight...

[PainGod85]

Just now, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Here is a more in depth report on the use of 150 grade fuel 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

 

One section of interest is here.

 

On 18 September 1944 A.D.G.B. very positively summarized the experience gained to date using 100/150 grade fuel. However, due primarily to logistical difficulties, such as the interchange of squadrons between A.D.G.B. and 2nd T.A.F., it was decided that UK based fighter squadrons should revert to the use of 130 grade fuel.  it’s uncertain as to the degree to which this decision was carried out as of November 1944 Fighter Command was still using 2,000 tons of 150 grade fuel per month.  With the adoption of 150 grade fuel by the Second Tactical Air Force, any logistical difficulties to Air Defense of Great Britain (A.D.G.B.) use of 150 grade fuel were removed. By early 1945, United Kingdom based Mustangs of A.D.G.B. were operating at +25 lbs/sq.in/80" hg. with 150 grade fuel on operations over the continent and Germany.  Eventually all Rolls-Royce Merlin and Griffon engines were cleared to operate on 150 grade fuel, as well as Centaurus, Hercules, Sabre II and Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp engines.  

 

That...isn't pertaining to the issue at hand. It's from back when they couldn't keep up with production in 1944, so they had to limit the number of squadrons they could give the fuel to. The issues with higher content of ethylene dibromide came later and did in fact not cause the squadrons to revert to 100/130 octane.

[Thad]

Outstanding update. Downloaded flawlessly. ?

 

I was going to wait until after the 1st of June but heck... I just bought early access. ?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Thad
Bought early access

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Bought Bodenplatte, for the devs are caring about VR. Thank you, keep on bringing it!

[Drum_Tastic]

I've said this before and I will say it again.

 

WOW - you clever, clever Russians!

[Voidhunger]

3 quick questions:

 

1. MW50 is activated at  >  1.3 ATA or only at 1.7 ATA ?

2. How long can you fly with MW50 (if you dont blown your engine) ?

3. What was the standard cannon for G-14? mg151 or mk108?

 

Thanks

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

47 minutes ago, PainGod85 said:

pertaining to the issue at hand

The issue at hand is exactly when did the 2nd T.A.F.  receive  150 octane for its units? 

 

It was decided that the Second Tactical Air force would change over from 100/130 grade fuel to 100/150 grade fuel from the 15th December 1944

Ref:  No. 42 Maintenance Group ORB, November 1944. (AIR 25/616) 

The shipping of fuel from Antwerp started on 2 January, 1945

Ref: 424 Aviation Fuel and Ammunition Park, 2nd T.A.F. ORB, January, 1945. (AIR 29/822)

So would that fall into the time frame for BOBP? 

 

Edit: its difficult to give a solid answer,  Baseplate kicked off on the 1st of January, the day before shipping of fuel from Antwerp. Maybe someone has sources that can give a definitive answer? 

Edited May 24, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[Lusekofte]

Yeah, that was quick, Astonishing speed for delivering this and bug fixes , I am impressed as usual. Many thanks

[LukeFF]

19 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

3 quick questions:

 

1. MW50 is activated at  >  1.3 ATA or only at 1.7 ATA ?

2. How long can you fly with MW50 (if you dont blown your engine) ?

3. What was the standard cannon for G-14? mg151 or mk108?

 

Thanks

 

1. Max throttle.

2. Read the patch notes.

3. Both

[SOLIDKREATE]

If you all need emblems for career mode, I am your man. 

[PainGod85]

10 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

The issue at hand is exactly when did the 2nd T.A.F.  receive  150 octane for its units? 

 

It was decided that the Second Tactical Air force would change over from 100/130 grade fuel to 100/150 grade fuel from the 15th December 1944

Ref:  No. 42 Maintenance Group ORB, November 1944. (AIR 25/616) 

The shipping of fuel from Antwerp started on 2 January, 1945

Ref: 424 Aviation Fuel and Ammunition Park, 2nd T.A.F. ORB, January, 1945. (AIR 29/822)

So would that fall into the time frame for BOBP? 

 

Edit: its difficult to give a solid answer,  Baseplate kicked off on the 1st of January, the day before shipping of fuel from Antwerp. Maybe someone has sources that can give a definitive answer? 

 

BoBP stretches up to the end of March. 80 trucks worth of empty fuel boxes was shipped back to Antwerp by January 12, 1945.

 

 

Additionally, by February 10, we know demand and supply for 150 octane fuel in particular was increasing.

 

 

This means they definitely used the fuel in Europe, and in significant amounts at that.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, E69_geramos109 said:

 

I hope so, becuase on this era was the way to fight on alt with P51 and american planes. And there is no sense to not have this mod.

 

Well at least for high alt combat LW still gets the K-4, better than the G-14/AS in most aspects (except turning I suppose).

[ShamrockOneFive]

Awesome! Wasn't expecting either of them so soon and I'm looking forward to kicking the tires on them later!

[6./ZG26_Custard]

10 minutes ago, PainGod85 said:

BoBP stretches up to the end of March

BOBP starts with Market Garden in September 1944 so I suppose that we must assume that up until at least 2 January 1945 (150) would not have been readily available. The rub would be the last 3 months of the time frame for BOBP? 

On the 5 February 1945, J.H Houghton Brigadier General, U.S.A. Director of Supply, reported that the R.A.F on the Continent were using 100/150 grade fuel

Or is it just a month?

 

So maybe we may get a 150 Octane mod for the last 3 months further into development?

 

Staying on the topic of the thread, it's a great update, thanks to the Devs and all involved   

[Voidhunger]

17 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

1. Max throttle.

2. Read the patch notes.

3. Both

Thanks.

 

1. Ok, so below 1.7 ata there is 1min engine limit like in previous  Bf109?

 

2. I know that there is 10min limit for max power, but what i wanted to know is: 10 min for max power is when your engine is damaged or mw fuel tank is empty?

 

3. I meant what was standard from the factory

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

2 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

2. I know that there is 10min limit for max power, but what i wanted to know is: 10 min for max power is when your engine is damaged or mw fuel tank is empty?

 

 

It should be when the engine would risk being damaged. The MW 50 tank has a capacity for around half an hour of use, 10 mins at a time you could use it three times full lenght in a flight, although I think the consumption also depends on altitude right?

Edited May 24, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I bought BOBP but can't login to the sim. It says my email or password is wrong/key not activated. I tried to change my password still the same issue also my account shoes all keys are activated...

Edited May 24, 2018 by II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33

[PainGod85]

2 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

BOBP starts with Market Garden in September 1944 so I suppose that we must assume that up until at least 2 January 1945 (150) would not have been readily available. The rub would be the last 3 months of the time frame for BOBP? 

On the 5 February 1945, J.H Houghton Brigadier General, U.S.A. Director of Supply, reported that the R.A.F on the Continent were using 100/150 grade fuel

Or is it just a month?

 

So maybe we may get a 150 Octane mod for the last 3 months further into development?

 

Staying on the topic of the thread, it's a great update, thanks to the Devs and all involved   

 

Even then, the decision to give planes the option for 150 octane fuel should be primarily one of balance.

 

I just don't see a P-47 or Spit IX as objectively on par with what the Luftwaffe will get, not in the kinds of scenarios we're liable to play, and not even the 109 G-14.

 

Just now, II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33 said:

I bought Bonaparte but can't login says my email or password is wrong,changed my password still the same issue all my keys are activated...

 

Whoa, autocorrect really did a number on you there...

 

Don't actually change your password, retype it in your login screen. That's how I managed to log in.

Edited May 24, 2018 by PainGod85

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

3 minutes ago, PainGod85 said:

 

Even then, the decision to give planes the option for 150 octane fuel should be primarily one of balance.

 

I just don't see a P-47 or Spit IX as objectively on par with what the Luftwaffe will get, not in the kinds of scenarios we're liable to play, and not even the 109 G-14.

 

 

Whoa, autocorrect really did a number on you there...

 

Don't actually change your password, retype it in your login screen. That's how I managed to log in.

Tried that before I changed it no luck.

[Hopper64]

Thanks for a great update!

[Vortice]

Well it didn't take long for a fight to break out....

 

Then someone posted a graph and then a page of statistics.......

 

Same old, same old thang!

 

Anyway, thanks for the updated version Jason & Co. It is much appreciated by me.

[Missionbug]

Thank you very much for the latest update guys, really appreciated.

 

 

Came as a great surprise and very unexpected, Spit looks lovely.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Legioneod]

Very nice update, unfortunate y I cant afford Bodenplatte at the moment so I can't enjoy the update to it's fullest but I happy to see it progressing. One thing that is interesting is the Gyro sight as a modification, will this be an option of other aircraft that had them?

 

P-47 and P-51 for example would be nice to have the option of fixed or Gyro.

[OrangeNoise]

With a working gyro gunsight I wonder if this will pave the way for the addition of the stuvi sight...

 

Great job none the less!

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

56 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

Or is it just a month?

 

If you look at wwiiaircraftperformance, squadrons are converting throughout January and February.  Either way 150 Octane use represents approximately half the time period represented in the game where it was used by the 2TAF, considering we have even rarer modifications, instead of here where hundreds, maybe thousands of engines in both England and the Continent were converted to use 150 Octane, I don't see why it shouldn't be included.

Edited May 24, 2018 by RoflSeal

[Raptorattacker]

3 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

New planes are nice
Planes that should have only the empty loadout available seem to still be able load bombs. Not nice

Static block durability still works funnily: you can destroy a hangar with 20 mm cannon, but not with 37 mm cannon. Not nice 

Don't play it until everything is nice to you then? Just a suggestion...

[6./ZG26_Custard]

6 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

I don't see why it shouldn't be included.

I'm not saying I don't want it included but looking at it objectively it appears that 150 Octane wasn't made available on the continent until 15th December 1944 with the supplies shipping out on 2nd January 1945. So the BOBP time frame starting in September 1944 and ending in March 1945 would give a window of around two to three months where 150 would be available or if Brigadier General Houghton's report of 5th of February 1945 is to be believed, one month?  Whatever it may be, as I said earlier in the thread, at some point a modification may become available to enable +25lbs?