Jump to content
Han

Game version 3.003 discussion: Battle of Bodenplatte Early Access

Recommended Posts

And what is the pilot doing with rudder (by pedals or a trim) in the clip? Use them of course and that makes whole video analysis of little use because it contains a human factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

You only have to watch the rest of the in-flight video to see that this is not the case. The swing on the ground is caused by inertia due to the yawing moment and not the usual forces that make a sideslip gauge work. In the air during actual manoeuvres it's the opposite of the in-game representation.

Precisely look at timestamp 3:30 to see the aircraft  in a knife edge  with  the indicator on the opposite side to how it should be based on my knife edge screenshot.

 

Riiiiiight 

 

This conversation is going nowhere. You must be right, I know nothing about aircraft's or the Spit. After all, this is only what I do for the last 30 years and I fly the damn thing. :dash:

 

That remind me of an argument I had last month with a member of the flat earth society. How enlightening

 

Roger and out     

Edited by ATAG_dB
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the inertia forces don't reverse magically when the plane moves in the air, do they? If they cause the ball to behave the same way on the ground and in the air in ball-type slip indicators, I can't imagine why they would suddenly reverse in this pendulum-arrow indicator. Slightly different devices, but they're subjected to the same physics laws.

 

I think I understand what PainGod and Talon are on about, as the description on the instrument suggests at first glance it might work the other way than ball-type indicators, but the video proves to me that's not the case.

 

I admit I've never thought much about it, as the instrument has been implemented the same way in all three current sims that have it (CloD, BoX and DCS) and "steping on the arrow" seemed to be intuitive to me, like "stepping on the ball". Could they all be wrong? But if they were, the behaviour seen on the video wouldn't make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

There are many mistakes with the Spitfire IX we have. The largest is that engine RPM + throttle of late Mark IX and XVI were controlled by a single lever according to AP 1565 J P&L Sept 1946 but in game we still have two levers such as the Mark V.

 

Some MkIXs: but the PN for Mk IX, XI and XVI, dated ..etc: it is the same serial you quote, describes the operation of the two systems in sections 20 i and ii. So these marks - at least some of them, certainly had the system we have in the game, so it is not technically wrong.

 

But I can well believe that most (possibly all) of the Spitfire IXs in operation by BoBop were the interconnected type, so what we have is a little anachronistic and it would have been better to model the interconnection IMHO.

 

I use a G940 so I can physically fix the two axes that I use for boost and rpm together. It almost models the interconnected mechanism, but the rpms are always a 100 or so too low for the boost when I do that - so I do not do it.

Edited by unreasonable
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When a plane starts to roll then the needle will lean in the reverse direction because of inertia. However, in a turn pilot will stop the roll at some point. Then the needle will move back possibly overshooting the correct slip measurement by a little for a short time. Once the plane is in a stable continuous turn the needle will show the proper slip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, BOO said:

Though its a well known fact spitfire pilots LURV their vanity mirrors I'm not sure the MkIX hasn't taken this too far...

 

Compare the Vb to the new girl on the block and the mirrors are.......well......a little self obsessed? Basically, in the IX id be looking at myself all day (if wasnt the IL2 equivalent of the invisible man). Be great for me cos I'm pretty but useless if I intended not to have my incredible good looks ruined by a 30mm through the back of the skull. 

 

So..afore I go running off to Han to report it as a little bug, am I doing sommat wrong in the IX? If I am, what I am I doing wrong in the VB to get a useful mirror from the outset?

 

Pictures (sadly for you none at all of me)

 

 

2018_5_26__15_16_11.jpg

2018_5_26__15_17_10.jpg

 

It is just you - maybe check your default head position?

 

 

2018_5_27__10_51_53.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I find interesting is the amount of posts generated by the Spit. So far as I can tell the IX has been the most talked about aircraft since BoBP was announced (and arguably the same for Vb in BoK), even though it is not the highest performer and is far from the most exotic aircraft we will get. Since they dropped the IX seems to be talked about waaaaay more than the G-14. Love it or hate, it gets a lot of attention and generates hype.
Although my preference is for the Tiffie, if any more collector aircraft were to be added to BoBP I could see the devs being tempted by the XIV seeing as the Spit family gets so much attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just thinking that the other day: Spitfires are the aviation equivalent of blondes I suppose. They not only have more fun, but gentlemen prefer them.

 

But also just that the UK used to make some fine aircraft. Typhoon, Mosquito and Mk XIV surely, once the Jug and P-51 are safely in the skies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, HBPencil said:

Something I find interesting is the amount of posts generated by the Spit. So far as I can tell the IX has been the most talked about aircraft since BoBP was announced (and arguably the same for Vb in BoK), even though it is not the highest performer and is far from the most exotic aircraft we will get

 

Excuussse me !

 

😉

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the subject of the British type slip indicator - the discussion made my head spin,  but I vaguely remember that sometime in the last few years I have read an account by a war time RAF pilot who had to fly a US aircraft (I think a Jug) without any type training, after being sent to a USAAF unit as a liaison officer. He remarked that he took a while to get used to having to step on the ball after having been trained  to step away from the needle in British aircraft. But he soon got used to it.

 

Trouble is that I suspect that account was in Aeroplane magazine or similar, not a book, and it takes hours to leaf through them all trying to find the article and see if I have recalled accurately or this is just too many mushrooms.  I will try and find it later this week - just wondering if there are any other contemporary accounts people know of.  

Edited by unreasonable
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic! Such a wonderful sim...magical, really. Thank you Devs for the excellent work! 🙂

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Some MkIXs: but the PN for Mk IX, XI and XVI, dated ..etc: it is the same serial you quote, describes the operation of the two systems in sections 20 i and ii. So these marks - at least some of them, certainly had the system we have in the game, so it is not technically wrong.

 

But I can well believe that most (possibly all) of the Spitfire IXs in operation by BoBop were the interconnected type, so what we have is a little anachronistic and it would have been better to model the interconnection IMHO.

 

I use a G940 so I can physically fix the two axes that I use for boost and rpm together. It almost models the interconnected mechanism, but the rpms are always a 100 or so too low for the boost when I do that - so I do not do it.

The interconnection system is probably missing, but either way the RPM control lever was retained - if the pilot wished to reduce his work load he would pull the lever fully aft which engaged the interconnection. Don't quote me on that, I could be completely wrong, but I've seen videos of modern Spitfire pilots explaining it.

Edited by Lythronax
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, unreasonable said:

I was just thinking that the other day: Spitfires are the aviation equivalent of blondes I suppose. They not only have more fun, but gentlemen prefer them.

 

But also just that the UK used to make some fine aircraft. Typhoon, Mosquito and Mk XIV surely, once the Jug and P-51 are safely in the skies.

 

 

If the Spitfire is equivalent of a blonde, the Mosquito is equivalent to a buxom redhead for me. :yahoo:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lythronax said:

The interconnection system is probably missing, but either way the RPM control lever was retained - if the pilot wished to reduce his work load he would pull the lever fully aft which engaged the interconnection. Don't quote me on that, I could be completely wrong, but I've seen videos of modern Spitfire pilots explaining it.

 

There you go you can quote this page from the Pilot Notes For Spitfire IX, XI & XVI.

 

AceySxw.jpg

 

Edited by Oliver88
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, HBPencil said:

Something I find interesting is the amount of posts generated by the Spit. So far as I can tell the IX has been the most talked about aircraft since BoBP was announced (and arguably the same for Vb in BoK), even though it is not the highest performer and is far from the most exotic aircraft we will get. Since they dropped the IX seems to be talked about waaaaay more than the G-14. Love it or hate, it gets a lot of attention and generates hype.
 

 

I believe it`s called love.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

There you go you can quote this page from the Pilot Notes For Spitfire IX, XI & XVI.

 

AceySxw.jpg

 

Now that is something to post in the developer assistance section as I hope to see this feature.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An intelligent and knowledgeable individual would also see this, presumably optimal RPM and boost match of the Merlin, as an indicator of where future engine modeling parameters might be derived from for this model (and others similar).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately, there are books on the Merlin which shouldn't leave any questions unanswered. Fifty pages plus thirty charts with technical info (engine theory, design calculations, verification by testing) below. It deals with the early Marks up to XX, but the later marks were the same engine with different superchargers, so nothing different. Gives you a good understanding of these engines.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Supercharged-Aero-Engine-Technical/dp/1872922112

Edited by JtD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, 70 percent of planes on dogfight MP, are Spits IX now, and on the opposite G14. Simultaneously I want to say that flying this sim in VR is just beauty. Love it and I can enjoy each knob, each lever, each part of screw, steel, or glass..... The visuals are soooooo perfect, that you are happy in each plane. We really fly those birds!!!

The lightning and shadows are awesome, the reflections, on each part of the plane, .... just BEAUTYNESS. Superior job.

 

Yesterday I was attacking in IL2 43 on the german tank. I was close when he hit me. SUddenly big bang my plane has broken in the middle and the front part with main wings and cockpit was made a negative loop, and bcs of low altitude immediately after one loop I hit the ground. Correctly (not upside down). Just 2m aside the tank. 

Doesnt matter I was down, I screamed: Waaaaaaaaaaw. That was Awesome!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

There you go you can quote this page from the Pilot Notes For Spitfire IX, XI & XVI.

 

<picture>

 

 

Thanks - saved me typing them out, since I do not have easy access to a scanner!

 

These PNs are easy enough to buy from Amazon and not especially expensive. Anyone wanting to explore a particular aircraft would benefit from getting them: I have to assume that developers have a set in which case the choice to model the non-interconnected system was simply to save some develpoment time. Understandable, but I hope they can add it later for completeness.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Thanks - saved me typing them out, since I do not have easy access to a scanner!

 

These PNs are easy enough to buy from Amazon and not especially expensive. Anyone wanting to explore a particular aircraft would benefit from getting them: I have to assume that developers have a set in which case the choice to model the non-interconnected system was simply to save some develpoment time. Understandable, but I hope they can add it later for completeness.

 

Or easy enough to find them as an pdf and download online for free. :ph34r:

 

And I've now bought the game. Seems the IX that's been given is definitely an early IX as along with the non-interconnection we have the undercarriage warning horn, which was also an feature of early aircraft. Though seems that in game it ceases after an second or two rather than being permanently on (while throttle closed and undercarriage up)?

 

ftF4k86.jpg

 

Edited by Oliver88
meant udercarriage up derp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

 

Or easy enough to find them as an pdf and download online for free. :ph34r:

 

And I've now bought the game. Seems the IX that's been given is definitely an early IX as along with the non-interconnection we have the undercarriage warning horn, which was also an feature of early aircraft. Though seems that in game it ceases after an second or two rather than being permanently on (while throttle closed and undercarriage down)?

 

ftF4k86.jpg

 

 

It was a design choice so it didn't end up pissing people off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could have avoided that by just giving us a late 1944-45 Mk IX with no horn at all.  ;)  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since you guys seem to be raher knowledgeable about spitfires, was there ever a Spitfire Mk IX with a bubble canopy?

And if so, would they have been in place during BP?

 

Concerning the RPM governor, I really hope the devs will put it in, it would make flying the damn thing rather more pleasurable.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

Since you guys seem to be raher knowledgeable about spitfires, was there ever a Spitfire Mk IX with a bubble canopy?

And if so, would they have been in place during BP?

 

Concerning the RPM governor, I really hope the devs will put it in, it would make flying the damn thing rather more pleasurable.

 

Late series Mk. IXs and Mk. XVIs were built with the bubble canopy from February 1945 onwards and introduced into Squadron service in March, so no they wouldn't have been present during BP.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

Or easy enough to find them as an pdf and download online for free. :ph34r:

 

And I've now bought the game. Seems the IX that's been given is definitely an early IX as along with the non-interconnection we have the undercarriage warning horn, which was also an feature of early aircraft. Though seems that in game it ceases after an second or two rather than being permanently on (while throttle closed and undercarriage up)?

 

ftF4k86.jpg

 

 

This basically makes our Spit IX variant apocryphal. Later models had the E type wing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2018 at 7:05 PM, 19//Rekt said:

Whether the Spitfire's slip needle is correct or not, I'm not ashamed to say that I hope they don't change it. 

 

The gyro gunsight is a great sideslip indicator. Almost like the wool string on a sailplane. It would actually be more realistic if we had a sideslip indicator along with the compass in the HUD that could be freely placed (under the gunsight, of course). I'd love some force feedback pedals...

Edited by Mora_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mora_ said:

 

 

TBH I have no idea if it is correct or not. I get it and can work with it and if it was reversed I can get that too. At the end of the day, if you do not know which way your aircraft is yawing, you are in a spin very soon! The first thing my instructor said was don't look at the instruments. If it is wrong lets it is sorted by facts as best as possible and in the meantime stop shouting at each other.  

Edited by AeroAce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2018 at 3:25 PM, SYN_Mike77 said:

The full key settings to the gunsights are in the weapons tab in key settings.

Could you be more specific? What is the key combination for that?I don't find it either. Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, 1/JSpan_Muscat said:

Could you be more specific? What is the key combination for that?I don't find it either. Thank you

 

Gunsight range adjustment (defaults Right Alt + Semicolon/Period)

Gunsight horizontal adjustment (defaults Right Alt + Comma/Slash)

 

And of course need to have the gyro gunsight selected as an aircraft mod.

Edited by Oliver88
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

And of course need to have the gyro gunsight selected as an aircraft mod.

 

Not so - you can use those settings with the default gunsight (and on the Mk Vb as well).

Edited by LukeFF
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

No so - you can use those settings with the default gunsight (and on the Mk Vb as well).

 

Yes am aware. The controls are usable with the default also. But as was about the keymap for the gyro I thought I would mention needing that mod.

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:31 AM, baylor703 said:

Awesome start to BoP. The spit handles like a dream. Still haven't found the keymap to the gyro yet. Anyone care to share it?

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:25 PM, SYN_Mike77 said:

The full key settings to the gunsights are in the weapons tab in key settings.

 

45 minutes ago, 1/JSpan_Muscat said:

Could you be more specific? What is the key combination for that?I don't find it either. Thank you

 

Edited by Oliver88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that I already noticed with the MkV and again in the MkIX is, that the distance and wingspan setting on the gunsight is moving incredible slow. It takes ages to go from 600 to 200 yards. 

The adjustment of the gunsight should happen much faster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so exited for the next instalment of the IL-2 Sturmovik series.

I can't find words to describe how thankful i am for all the joy fun and happiness this Simulator give me.

 

Thank you form the bottom of my heart for this.

Keep up the good work.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, FORKYujin said:

I'm so exited for the next instalment of the IL-2 Sturmovik series.

I can't find words to describe how thankful i am for all the joy fun and happiness this Simulator give me.

 

Thank you form the bottom of my heart for this.

Keep up the good work.

I feel ya, this morning I took the a20 for a cross country on the kuban map..just wonderful work... can’t wait for the next map

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2018 at 2:12 PM, unreasonable said:

I was just thinking that the other day: Spitfires are the aviation equivalent of blondes I suppose. They not only have more fun, but gentlemen prefer them.

 

I beg to differ but I entirely dissagree, you can't just state that blonde are more fun or that gentlemen prefer them. Its a question of taste good sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'know I am late to the party but thanks! These two new planes a blast to fly! I don't know about specific things but I can't wait for the content to arrive.

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse me, I bought IL2 BoS and BoM through Steam. Can I pe-order This brand new add? I mean, of course I can, but can I merge it with my steam Version? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...