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Pimax 8k / 5k VR headsets coming to Kickstarter this month!


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Seemed like a positive review.  He praised what needed to be praised and pointed out any negatives and that is important in any review.

 

Taking the fact this was the v2 prototype and there are plans for at least another 2 (v3 is complete with new lenses etc and working IPD adjust), then it was a good review.  It confirms what I already know from multiple sources

 

Reduced (almost eliminated) SDE

Increased resolution

Increased FOV

Reduced God Rays

 

These are the main problems I have with Rift CV1 and every one of them is resolved.  Pimax are working on resolving, or have already resolved the other issues he mentioned, such as warping which I believe would have been fixed for him with working IPD adjust.

Edited by ICDP
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What ICDP said above.

 

Looks like Pimax is taking a lead in high end VR devices and it's doing it with a big margin. I haven't seen anything proving otherwise.

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Someone who tried a samsung odyssey yesterday (at home), owns a rift and knows the vive, also tried the acer and the pimax 8K v2, ranked them with the following score in term of display precision (pixel density + lack of SDE):

 

vive: 30/100

rift cv1: 35/100

odyssey: 40/100

pimax 8k: at least 60/100

 

Where 100 would be the average quality perceived with a full hd monitor.

 

So yeah this pimax seems the only one (so far) which will bring a significant step forward regarding visual quality in VR (but still with a large margin for improvement).

 

He decided to return the odyssey because he found the gap with his rift cv1 was not significant enough to replace it and because the sweet spot is very narrow (similar to a vive, so narrower than a rift). This is another significant improvement with the pimax if it provides a large sweet spot as seen during the demos.

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Surveys out with most likely headsets delivery schedule near Jan/Feb and light houses and controllers a couple months later.  The 8K X most likely will need SLI 1080ti which needs individual game support or 1180ti.

 

Hoping with the modular design of the Pimax, the 8K can be modded to give native 4k per eye res down the track when GPU's are able to deal with it.  Should be able to do it with a single DP cable with upgraded spec on the DP interface.

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  • 1 month later...
SCG_Fenris_Wolf

Well let's hope, for those who backed the Pimax "8k", that the guys manage to fix their issues. You can imagine how bad the sickness must be when playing with the picture within the HMD lagging behind the movements of the player. That's kind of critical, people didn't back this to watch only movies in virtual cinema.

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I think they need to stop chasing improved features such as extra FOV until they fix the existing issues.  Having said that the issues reported can be solved and the fact there were positives such as resolution and FOV does bode well.

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It seems that earlier prototypes (v3) had less defects than this one (v5).

I really don´t understand how Pimax has demoed something not really working (v5). It should have been better to demo just the v3 or just nothing, it´s a common sense.

 

I also don´t understand well the obsession of reaching 200 FOV. With 150 or 160 should be enough for now, and don´t waste that precious resolution over a larger FOV.

 

I am sure they will correct most of this issues, but they will need time. So, final product may shift to end Q2.

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  1. V3 was around 180 FOV (I think), so Pimax introduced new lenses on V5 to reach their 200 deg goal.  They failed but improved lenses should help.
  2. Issues with tracking are because they covered the IR sensors to protect them (a necessary feature).  An easy fix.
  3. 90 Hz refresh rate is again a desired goal but their onw kickstarter id say 75-90Hz.  IMHO 80 Hz is fine if the only solution "maybe possbily no gaurantees" to reach 90Hz, is to push the release date back another 3-6 months.

These from what I can tell, are the main issues and should be easily fixed.  If you work in engineering/design you are aware than the "newest prototype" does not equate to improved.  In many cases things regress before they get better.

 

I expect we will get something close to the specs we backed but it will be mid 2018 now at the latest.  This is the risks of kickstarter.  Hell I backed Elite Dangerous based on many developer promises and it turned out keek :)

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VBF-12_Stick-95

This just communicated by Pimax:

 

 

 
45.png

V5 is the first prototype after the tooling for mass production. It requests lots of tuning works.
However, we still decide to bring it to CES to showcase the backers the latest version.

We made several changes with v5 before CES.
For example, the lenses and the mechanical design of the lenses are both new tooling version. The change may lead to new issues, e.g. the reflections, but the issues will be eliminated and the benefit of the new design will reveal after fine tuning.
To reach approximate 30% increase in terms of brightness level, we added 3 more LEDs in the backlight panel from 12 to 15 and increased the LED current supply to the panel as well. As a result, the current supply in other parts decreases and new issues occurs e.g. tracking performance. It's not hard to resolve, the team is working on it.
We use valve tracking technology, the tracking performance won't be an issue at all in the final product.

After hardware and software fine tuning and all the issues resolved, we plan to ship limited number of testing units to selected backers, and may bring the units to more backers to test via roadshows.
The details of the issues and analysis, along with shipping schedule will be updated later this month.

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95
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SvAF/F16_radek

Thanks for posting that stick, a reassuring message. While hardly a deal breaker damn I still hate that 80's appearance of the pimax. Looks like something Captain Kirk would put on. Was hoping they'd change it.

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They really should learn with IL2 team on how to communicate with their customers... If we had this info before CES, things would be so much better... The way things are going makes me really feel that they are biting more than they can chew.

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8K video CES review from VRS.

Interesting to note the comment on the Microsoft/HP MR headset and the distance blur and screendoor effect and the comparison to the V5 Pimax 8K.

 

Crisp image on the environment at all distances.  Good for us when other issues are ironed out and headsets are released.

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Ok, but CES didn't have V6 and the comparison compared to MS MR HMD is still valid

There's no V6 yet. The last prototype was V5, and this one was the one they presented there.

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This was one of the latest CES reviews. It's issues were greatly lessened and reviews improved as the show continued. The majority of these are just the need to "fine tune" as Pimax indicates. The main issues is getting to 90Hz which is awaiting a new bridge chip by April that is hoped will resolve that. Pimax has stated that the tech should run and 90 (currently stable at 82Hz and are hopeful the new chip will achieve this. Most who have tried V2-5 did not realize it was not running at 90, so how important this is will be somewhat dependent on the individual, but many feel it's not going to be a biggie. We shall see when the early testers get to play with it, which will be before the chip arrives. As is often said regarding military missions -confidence is high.

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I used the Oculus DK2 - 75 Hz - for about two years without issues and never really understood why it was so important to push to 90 Hz when they were planning the CV1. 

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I used the Oculus DK2 - 75 Hz - for about two years without issues and never really understood why it was so important to push to 90 Hz when they were planning the CV1. 

 

I think that may be the sweet spot for best overall experience with as little lag/motion induced sickness.

 

But just a guess on my part.

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I think that may be the sweet spot for best overall experience with as little lag/motion induced sickness.

 

But just a guess on my part.

 

Based on earlier experiences with low res HMD's higher refresh rates were seen as a means to reduce motion sickness in VR.  With better image resolution in HMD's, the jury is out as to weather there is such a need for high refresh rates but there are also other tricks that can be implemented to deal with frame rates displayed for instance, Brainwarp which is what Pimax is working on.

 

Brainwarp is from my understanding a means to show each eye the image out of sync with each other tricking the user into perceiving higher image frames to what is being produced.  Whether this also might have benefits in reducing the rendering processing requirements of GPU's I am not sure as the frame for left and right eye of a scene will be the same but with slight offfset to give the 3D perception.

 

Users of the Pimax 4K which is a single screen solution but with decent res and running at only 60Hz don't seem to have issues on the whole with motion sickness in their usage. Or so I have read.  We see what they come up with but I think at the moment, it will be late 1st half of the year for delivery of the Pimax 8K to backers.  As long as they iron the issues out, that is fine by me.

Edited by blitze
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I believe Oculus and Vive both spent a couple of years looking at ideal refresh rates for VR and came to the conclusion that 90hz was the best minimum for avoiding VR nausea for most people. I haven't seen any hard data supporting that. I suspect there will be a few more people that might be affected at 80 than 90, but just like they thought we couldn't handle full movement in shooters, I think they will find most people will get VR legs anyway. Pimax was running 80Hz in V2/3 demos without much complaint so it may be less of an issue. The number was agreed apon in 110fov hmds. It may be that the larger fov being more natural helps lessen the effect. Unlike motion sickness that has a g-force and inner ear balance component in VR sickness the only problem is a lack of continuity between what the brain sees and that missing physical feedback it expects. Once you get some time in, the wonderful brain corrects for the missing information. Since there is no physical component, once you adjust mentally you're pretty much good to go. There will always be a few who can't master it, but the numbers are small. In reading the Elite Dangerous VR forum daily for over 2 years, which has a large VR user base, I have only seen 3 posts by people selling the HMD because they could not adjusts and this is a very large VR user group. I think we have some wiggle room.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Doesn't pimax do hardware upscaling from 4k to 8k? In my mind that is very acceptable as it reduces screen-door effect while still being manageable on normal hardware?

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upscaling is on the 8k model and it is from 1080p or 1440p to 4k per eye.  There are 2 x 4k screens, one for each eye.

 

Hope things are working out for their development.  The 5k and the 8k-X don't have upscaling.

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The problem with pimax is that Il2 bos is not exactly compliant with their software suite, or vice versa. With my Pimax 4k the screens are not fully used, unlike in DCS or steamVR home. The resolution used by BoS is not the one given by steam, which is not the input res. of the HMD...

I opened a ticket on IL2 site, and, as expected, devs said that this is on Pimax software side. Maybe they are right, but in fact only Vive and Rift are working well in Il2Bos. All other VR HMD : PIMAX, windows Mixed reality HMD, OSVR HDK2,... have problems with this sim, but not with DCS nor steamVR home.

Its too bad that il2 team do not want to take into account this customer needs. As Il2 Bos is not yet known enough I do not think that Pimax or MS will do something for them.

Edited by lefuneste
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  • 1 month later...
On 26.02.2018 at 10:41 PM, lefuneste said:

he problem with pimax is that Il2 bos is not exactly compliant with their software suite, or vice versa. With my Pimax 4k the screens are not fully used, unlike in DCS or steamVR home. The resolution used by BoS is not the one given by steam, which is not the input res. of the HMD...

I opened a ticket on IL2 site, and, as expected, devs said that this is on Pimax software side. Maybe they are right, but in fact only Vive and Rift are working well in Il2Bos. All other VR HMD : PIMAX, windows Mixed reality HMD, OSVR HDK2,... have problems with this sim, but not with DCS nor steamVR home.

Its too bad that il2 team do not want to take into account this customer needs. As Il2 Bos is not yet known enough I do not think that Pimax or MS will do something for them

 

This is sad. So even Vive Pro will have issues with scale ?

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51 minutes ago, TWHYata_PL said:

So even Vive Pro will have issues with scale ?

 

We don't know at the moment. Could be as fine as the regular Vive is, as they are very similar, or it could be off because it's got a different device ID that the game does not recognize.

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