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Bullets

Pimax 8k / 5k VR headsets coming to Kickstarter this month!

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https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8k-vr-headset-coming-kickstarter-later-month/   

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/1001502333?ref=329384&token=cc143a74

 

Been holding out on VR headsets because the times I have used current releases I hated being able to see the pixels the resolutions were simply not good enough, it completely ruined the immersion for me and In especially in this simulator you sometimes have to be able to spot a few pixels and with the rift or vive I just couldn't see that being a possibility so I have held out.  

 

HOWEVER the upcoming release of "8k" ( 2x 4k sceens)  and "5k (2 x 2.5k screens) WITH  220 Degrees FOV!!  This should be enough resolution to completely remove the pixel effect and create a clear image good enough for use in a sim such as this (Especially the 8K headset). The only thing better about the 5k headset is that it is using OLED monitors so colours will be better but should be a good cheaper alternative to the 8k.. I will most likely be joining the kick starter how about you guys??  :salute:

Edited by Bullets

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I myself will be holding out to see what the next gen from both Oculus and HTC brings.

But then I am thoroughly enjoying my Rift with BoS and other games, and am hoping Oculus comes through with much of what has been talked about for CV2...

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Seen reports Oculus won't be releasing anything new for at least a year+  https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-cv1-superseded-new-version-least-two-years-rift-2-cv2/   .... And I don't really want to wait that long aha   Either way there is no REAL information about next gen from either of those manufacturers.. I will take what I can get hopefully in time for Xmas!  :huh::salute:

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That is excellent news!

 

I had same reasons as you to ditch VR for now. If that device delivers what promised, it's like a dream come true. 8k resolution and 200 degree fov, could not ask for more. Very interesting indeed :)

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It's certainly intriguing but there is so much left unknown. Off the top of my head here are a few questions and my own observations:

 

* How does the sensor tracking work? Is it Lighthouse (Vive) or Constellation (Rift) based or something altogether new?

UPDATED: I see that its the first to implement the LightHouse tracking system that the Vive uses. That is very interesting and good news!

 

* Audio

Specs show that it has headphone jacks and stereo sound headphones, but does it support full positional sound and how good are the included headphones?

Having used both the Rift and Vive, I have to say that the  included headphones of the Rift are a huge advantage. My 7.1 Sennheiser headphones are beginning to gather dust as its a pain to wear them over the HMD and the stock Rift speakers are more than good enough for every VR title I have thrown at them.

 

* HMD Fit and comfort

Based on the pics of the prototype I don't see any strap going over the top of the head. That could affect comfort and fit for some people. I'd like to see how the finished version looks to gauge that concern. Update: It does look like their is an optional add-on with a different strap arrangement with the overhead strap added from what I can make out.

 

In HMD Brightness and Distortion

Initial reports from the show by the media said that the resolution was good but they also said the images appeared dim and had distortions. Hopefully that is rectified before release.

 

* True in HMD Refresh Rate?

Specs lists a hybrid 75/90Hz refresh rate and then with Brainwarp (basically, their proprietary reprojection technique) it's boosted to 150/180Hz. I'd like to see more first person accounts of how that looks in games that require very fast screen updates to specific areas of view like Flight Sims with HUD's (DCS) or reflector type gun-sight displays (BOX). Also what is the true refresh rate, is it 75 or 90Hz?

 

* Controllers

Controllers appear to loosely based on Rift Touch Controllers. I would like to hear more about how well they work and what functionality is built in to them. Do they utilize capacitive touch and if so, for which fingers?

 

* RoomScale

I see that the unit supports Roomscale setups but I didn't see anything that says how many sensors are required for that and what size room spaces are supported. Since its using the Vive's tracking system, I would assume roomscale on par with the HTC unit which is good news.

 

* SteamVR and Oculus Home support

According to one source, since the unveiling of the headset SteamVR support has been added and the Pimax website also lists it, but it also mentions support for Oculus titles, but has a note that support is via a 3rd party app. How well and natively will this HMD actually support SteamVR and Oculus titles? It does appear that SteamVR support is native but will people need to use ReVive to run Oculus titles? Again, I would like to see some actual reports of how well and natively this game support ends up being.

 

* Connectivity

Does the unit require USB 2 or USB 3 and how many connections are required? How well does it work with active extender cables?  Lots of issues with the Rift and sensors and different USB ports and Hubs so it would be good to get this info ahead of time.

 

* Support

I don't have any personal dealings with Pimax as a company, but I would question how well the customer service after-the-sale will be. Do they have a good track record to date with any of their other released products?

 

I am excited to see more 3rd party development in the VR arena as every new product to ship to market not only increases the overall VR installed userbase but also helps to inspire innovation and healthy competition among the bigger players. I will keep my eyes on Pimax but, for me at least, I have too many questions still before I would pledge into a Kickstarter campaign.

 

Madmatt

Edited by Madmatt
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Seen reports Oculus won't be releasing anything new for at least a year+  https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-cv1-superseded-new-version-least-two-years-rift-2-cv2/   .... And I don't really want to wait that long aha   Either way there is no REAL information about next gen from either of those manufacturers.. I will take what I can get hopefully in time for Xmas!  :huh::salute:

 

Yep early 2019 has been a well known app date for CV2 for some time. Whether that gets pushed up remains to be seen. For me I am so happy with what I have and what is to come, I am very patient.

 

And they have talked about foveated rendering, eye tracking, gloves, possibly tethered and untethered, ...

Edited by dburne

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Seeing as I will probably be solely using it for IL2 & Project Cars two all I want is great resolution to make it seem what I am looking at isn't a screen...  Oh and Star Citizen once I finally get round to patching it aha 

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Yes, wider FOV is nice and resolution too... but consider that if you increase FOV you decrease the pixels per FOV angle, so you might still see the pixels or SDE;

 

          Horizontal  Vertical     FOV   pixel/angle
Rift/Vive   1080      1200         90      12
Pimax5K  2560     1440        200     12.8
Pimax8K  3840     2160        200     19.2
 
When Pimax talks about FOV it refers to horizontal FOV (it doesn´t say monocular or binocular).
The Horizontal FOV of the Rift/Vive depends on the distance to the lens and the IPD:
 
So, the Pimax 5K will give you (horizontally) a similar resolution than the Rift/Vive, but at least a wider FOV.
With wider FOV and higher res, the near future can only go in two directions with current GPU cards:
 
- Eye tracking with foveat rendering
and/or
- SLI for VR 
 
GPU development can not go as fast as VR will go.
 
 
===================== Special section for Oculus and HTC employees who might read this forum =======================
 
I really love the brave Pimax guys and I will support their kickstarter campaign. They deserve it. There is nothing like competition (Pimax, Windows VR devices) to awake the almost slept pioneers. Came on Oculus and HTC!!!, is it so difficult to just produce a new device with just more resolution and FOV?????  Otherwise you will not sell a single rift this Christmas!!!!! Wake up!!! You announced the Rift two years ago already!!!! , Hire Palmer again if you need to inject some energy and passion for VR!!  we users will go to Pimax 8K  and will sell our mother to buy a super-mega-rig to move that in VR!!
YES, we flight simmers desperately wish resolution and FOV. And a solution to move all those pixels! :o:
 
===========================================================================================================
PD: Do I sound...... like a VR addict?
Edited by chiliwili69
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Thanks for the info Chiliwili69  (Nice name btw  :rolleyes: ...)   So basically I will have to get the 8k one otherwise I would just get frustrated at the "resolution" of the 5k one.. 

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I am most intrigued by the way they implement 200FOV. What kind of lenses do they use for this? This will have to be quite special ones, if they do not want to warp the picture, or only focus the center, and thus ruin the immersion immediately.

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I really love the brave Pimax guys and I will support their kickstarter campaign. They deserve it. There is nothing like competition (Pimax, Windows VR devices) to awake the almost slept pioneers. Came on Oculus and HTC!!!, is it so difficult to just produce a new device with just more resolution and FOV?????  Otherwise you will not sell a single rift this Christmas!!!!! Wake up!!! You announced the Rift two years ago already!!!! , Hire Palmer again if you need to inject some energy and passion for VR!!  we users will go to Pimax 8K  and will sell our mother to buy a super-mega-rig to move that in VR!!
YES, we flight simmers desperately wish resolution and FOV. And a solution to move all those pixels! :o:
 
 

 

Not this flight simmer  I am going to stick with the big guns and look forward to what they will be bringing out. I have a feeling it will so be worth the wait. In the meantime I will continue having a blast with my Rift CV1 with flight sims and many other VR games I enjoy as well.

 

I will certainly be watching with interest though. Perhaps this will cause Oculus and/or HTC to speed some things up a little. 

Competition is good.

;) 

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Yes, wider FOV is nice and resolution too... but consider that if you increase FOV you decrease the pixels per FOV angle, so you might still see the pixels or SDE;

 

Horizontal Vertical FOV pixel/angle

Rift/Vive 1080 1200 90 12

Pimax5K 2560 1440 200 12.8

Pimax8K 3840 2160 200 19.2

 

When Pimax talks about FOV it refers to horizontal FOV (it doesn´t say monocular or binocular).

The Horizontal FOV of the Rift/Vive depends on the distance to the lens and the IPD:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4at20n/field_of_view_for_vr_headsets_explained/

 

So, the Pimax 5K will give you (horizontally) a similar resolution than the Rift/Vive, but at least a wider FOV.

With wider FOV and higher res, the near future can only go in two directions with current GPU cards:

 

 

- Eye tracking with foveat rendering

and/or

- SLI for VR

 

GPU development can not go as fast as VR will go.

 

 

===================== Special section for Oculus and HTC employees who might read this forum =======================

 

I really love the brave Pimax guys and I will support their kickstarter campaign. They deserve it. There is nothing like competition (Pimax, Windows VR devices) to awake the almost slept pioneers. Came on Oculus and HTC!!!, is it so difficult to just produce a new device with just more resolution and FOV????? Otherwise you will not sell a single rift this Christmas!!!!! Wake up!!! You announced the Rift two years ago already!!!! , Hire Palmer again if you need to inject some energy and passion for VR!! we users will go to Pimax 8K and will sell our mother to buy a super-mega-rig to move that in VR!!

YES, we flight simmers desperately wish resolution and FOV. And a solution to move all those pixels! :o:

 

===========================================================================================================

PD: Do I sound...... like a VR addict?

I think it's that res per eye. So the numbers double.

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200 degree FoV seems rather pointless to me. I'm not a rabbit nor do I have eyes in the back of my skull. A little more than 90 degree would be nice, but what I'd really like to see is:

 

1) Better resolution: I don't just mean technical resolution. I care about better resolution per unit FoV.

2) Less lens flare: Those crappy Fresnel lenses have to go. A better solution must be found.

3) Go cordless: They are fine for seated games but suck for anything standing/room scale. VR needs to be wireless with the option of using a cable for power when the battery dies.

4) Focus adjustment: This would help immensely for everyone. May not be a replacement for glasses for everyone, but I suspect it would work for most. Should be independent for each eye obviously.

5) More granular refresh rate: The jump from 45 fps to 90 fps is a bit limiting. It would be nice to see 60 and 75 fps options as well.

Edited by BeastyBaiter

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Marketing.

 

We will only see what they give for when they roll them out. I won't invest, already lost way too much in the last days with bitcoins :)

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200 degree FoV seems rather pointless to me

 

I think the same. I would not demand much more FOV, for example 130 or 140FoV will be already a big advance. Most of the peripheral pixels in a 200FOV device is a waste of render.

 

Samsumg releases a new phone every year. What I don´t understand is why Oculus or HTC release an identical device with just some more resolution.

If the current resolution per eye is 1080X1200, why they don´t just double vertical and horizontal numbers to produce something like 2160x2400 per eye. For two eyes it is 4320x2400 physical resolution. Applying the same 1.25 internal SS factor which the Rift is currently using it will be a total render of 5400x3000=16.2Mpixel (assuming not additional SS is applied). 

16.2Mpixel is equivalent to apply SS=3.8 (Steam_VR) to the current Rift. A bit on the limit of a 1080Ti to mantain 90fps.

 

Oculus then will have two rifts in the market, a high res and a low res for arcade games and low rig spec. Displays of that resolution exists. Why they don´t do that?

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I am no tech guru, but I suspect it is one thing to SS and quite another to natively push all those pixel through the device.

 

I personally am glad they aren't releasing an updated device every year, I would be too tempted and with the price of these things - along with the GPU and CPU requirements to push them, I would be spending way too much than I would care to.

 

I am pretty sure the next generation for both Oculus and HTC are going to be a pretty large leap by the time they get here, and at that time certainly there will be more GPU horsepower available as well. 

 

For next gen - a little more FOV, plus eye tracking and foveated rendering to really help performance, better lenses to help with the god rays, and higher resolution to eliminate SDE and help in spotting, and I will be a very happy camper. And all able to manage to be pushed at 90 hz.

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Some very interesting comments in the section below:

 

https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8k-vr-headset-coming-kickstarter-later-month/

 

"How about actual requirements of the HMD? It's clear that no actual video card is capable of handling 4K at those high frame rates. They may be doing way lot of magic behind the scenes to achieve this on an actual video card."

 

"Sooooo, 8K is actually 4K. Why the fuck they do this?"

 

"Previous Pimax headset was about the worst I've used in VR. Warping was completely off and sickness fast set in. Tracking of hands was also completely off. I hope this is not just one of the chinese "first to market, crap quality". Seen too much of that lately."

 

"I would wait for the first review, however. Such a wide FOV might mean a LOT more motion sickness, [...]  The visual periphery is far more sensitive to motion. Maybe you know this from everyday experience, where you "see" something quickly moving at the boarders of your visual field and you instantly turn your head. It is reasonable to suspect an evolutionary adaptation here. It is also easily noticeable if you are viewing a rotating fan or anything in your visual periphery."

 

"It's reported that 140 degrees is comfortable, beyond that the tendency to motion sickness from wider FOV much more common."

 

"Pimax 4K headset did have the resolution but little else. Unfortunately without the complete package the Pimax 5K and 8K will fail. So you are left to balance the reputation of the company against it's ability to produce a more complete product "

 

 

Well well, interesting. 

 

 

I have then checked out the new Windows MR headsets. According to several reviewers, they are not suitable for these games in which you move your head quickly, and only good for seated games - except flight simulations, because here you naturally make very quick head movements to follow targets, while rolling, and while tracking enemies zipping by, which happens all the time. Their construction is not made for this. I will want to test them regardless, but only as long as I have the option to return them. Same with the Pimax. By the time they enter our market, the OR CV2 is probably entering as well.

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Mixed Reality is not going to be up there with true Virtual Reality, and they don't plan to be.

 

They are filling the gap between mobile VR and full scale VR... Oculus will be offering something for that line as well here soon.

 

As for Pimax, they are trying a different approach. Touting these " higher resolution" devices.  The fact they need a Kickstarter after their first offering probably says some things.

They did the same advertising their first offering as a 4K device. Not quite...

I would also be curious how their support is after the sale, no one can make these things with 100% defect free devices sent out. 

 

Without fully native support for positional tracking along with great hand tracking,  I would not even put into consideration. That may change as they continue to develop and see what happens, but I don't see me changing anytime soon.

 

I guess I have hitched my horse to Oculus so far, they have the team and the resources devoted to VR, and certainly the funds behind them. That team, which is quite large, has been working hard on things that I am sure are going to be very exciting.  Not to mention the quality of the titles one gets from Oculus , which have to go through a rigorous quality check to even be offered from them on the Oculus Store. And software updates on a very regular basis, and from what I can see pretty good customer support. I think they have positioned themselves quite well for going forward. 

 

I have several titles from Oculus and they are all really quite good. And they continue to pump out some really good content. Yeah I do get a little diversion every now and then, though still the vast bulk of my gaming time is combat flight sims. I shudder to think how many hours I have spent in BoS since VR support was implemented. Just today I spent over 3 hours flying my PWCG campaign, and had a freakin blast the whole time.

 

I will be watching development from all parties with interest over the next year or so, but in the meantime I am going to keep enjoying my Rift CV1 and get my money's worth out of it.

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Me? I'll wait for reviews.

 

Im not brand loyal and if these headsets are superior to the rift in every way and are competitively priced, I'll jump in right away.

 

Yes, a higher screen res would be lovely but I also want comfort and a polished product as well.

 

Im fussy like that. :)

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That team, which is quite large, has been working hard on things that I am sure are going to be very exciting.

 

Yes, I think so as well. They were the pioneers and have the talent and resources. My only concern is that, based in the Feb-2017 sneak peek of Oculus research they were showing gloves, audiolab, etc, etc, they are targeting the domestic VR market which might not need a high resolution and is based in budget PCs.

Ideally they could produce a product with a very high resolution but different operating modes depending on the power of the rig, but I doubt they go to 4K per eye in the CV2. I really would like to be wrong.

It is only one month left for Oculus Connect 4. They should announce something big, (for example their next CV2 for mid 2018) if they want to still be in the crest. 

 

In addition, with all the VR mobile push (Samsung, Google, Apple AR, etc) I am a little bit worried about the heavy PC VR, which is where BOS stands. So, helping Pimax to reach their targets is more like a must as a VR enthusiast. For, sure their will be many flaws in the product but I really want to help them to be a competitor of Oculus and HTC to avpid market dominance and abusive prices.

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I have several titles from Oculus and they are all really quite good.

 

I have also purchased some games from Oculus store but IHMO none catch me to play more than, let say 8 hours in total. Instead with BOS VR probably well over 50.

 

For example, Eagle Flight or The Climb are very nice experiences, but that´s all for me. Great experiences is all about for me so far. It is probably my lack of ability to have fun with videogames. My 10-yr son for example like very much all of them, but I only allow him to play one or two times per month since he is still young.

 

Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

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I don't think I'll be bothering with this for a while.  GPU's only make small advancements with each new generation.  A few percent here, a few percent there.  HMD's are leaping forward at an altogether different pace.  I can't see the point of buying a VR unit that boasts a high resolution when the first thing you have to do is dial back the resolution to fall in line with your GFX card.  I'll wait until GPU's sport a lot more power and then see what the HMD options are like come that day.

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I have also purchased some games from Oculus store but IHMO none catch me to play more than, let say 8 hours in total. Instead with BOS VR probably well over 50.

 

For example, Eagle Flight or The Climb are very nice experiences, but that´s all for me. Great experiences is all about for me so far. It is probably my lack of ability to have fun with videogames. My 10-yr son for example like very much all of them, but I only allow him to play one or two times per month since he is still young.

 

Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

 

Not many for sure, as most VR experiences are really only designed for say 3-5 hours of gameplay so far. I expect as market penetration continues to grow this will change some at some point to get longer more in depth games/experiences.

 

As I mentioned though, the bulk of my VR gaming time is spent in combat flight sims, primarily BoS. 

I am sure I have spent over 10 hours in Robo Recall, maybe close to that in Dead and Buried and Star Trek Bridge Crew.  The others I have not so much, and still have 2-3 purchased I have yet to give a try.

 

No telling how many hours I have in BoS since VR was implemented. Certainly it will continue to be virtually unlimited for me.

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Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

I'm too old for enjoying pointless shooting at wave after wave of monsters/robots. Perhaps 15 years as a game developer has taken it's toll as well. But just finished Lone Echo and this was the best non-flightsim gaming experience for me since first entering the world of Halflife 1. Never thought I'd feel such excitement for a game again. It was truly really brilliant. I might be biased though as I have a thing for old school sci-fi (Asimov, C clarke).

Edited by a_radek
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Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

 

BoS and DCS obviously but also Robo Recall and Dead Effect 2 VR. Other noteworthy titles I'm approaching 10 hours on are Redout and Asseto Corsa. Truth be told, there isn't much on offer for VR exclusives that interest me. Too many "job simulator" and room escape type games. Those just don't interest me.

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Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

 

None :(

I like historical strategy games, and can't stand silly repetitive games. VR doesn't make them any more interesting to me.

 

There could be apps that allow amazing cultural experiences, like virtual art galleries, with life size sculptures, or virtual reconstruction of ancient architectures and technology... Imagine walking on the bridge of a trireme, or a ship of the line of the age of sails... there is virtually nothing (pun intended). We live in a sad age when technological prowess is coupled with an alarming stupidity.

 

oh, for a while I thought about boxing or fencing games. Then I realized how much I sweat when working out on my heavy bag or doing pell work, and realized there's no way I'm going to enjoy it with an HMD on my face :biggrin:

Edited by Nibbio

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Being a BOS user, What are the VR tittles that you have played more than 10 hours with them?

 

Great question, okay, here goes. My list of games that I have put more than 10 hours into since I got my Oculus Rift:

 

Asseto Corsa - Awesome Sim Racing title with great VR support.

Dirt Rally - Rally Racing game with good VR implementation

DCS World - VR as good as BOS

Elite Dangerous - Probably the best VR implementation I have seen to date. Of all the games, this is the one that to me, is so much better in VR than it was in regular monitor based gameplay.

RoboRecall - Really fun shooter that the Oculus came with. Has mod support which has increased replayability

Medium - cool 3d Vr sculpting program. Not a game but a great app that shows the potential of VR outside of gaming. Also came with Oculus for free

Dragon Front - Another title that came with the Oculus and shows how a traditional card style game can be much more immersive in VR

Arizona Sunshine - Extremely well done First Person Shooter set during a Zombie Apocalypse. Reminds me a lot of Half Life and Left 4 Dead, but in VR.

Onward - First Person Multiplayer Shooter. Similar to Counterstrike.

The Lab - A free StreamVR showcase of minigames set in the Portal universe. Fun assortment of titles. I especially like the castle defense and slingshot levels.

Tabletop Simulator - Before VR, I used to use this to play a lot of my miniatures games that had free mods out (like FFG's X-Wing and Star Wars Armada) online with friends when we didn't have time to setup a full game at one of our houses but now it offers VR support. I am about to try it out this weekend with the Warhammer 40k 8th Edition mod. It's like playing with miniatures on terrain boards but in VR!

Echo Arena - Real fun 3 on 3 sports game in zero-G.

SuperHot - Weird and quirky but also addictive FPS type game

Defense Grid - I  just have the free demo version but I've enjoyed it so much and replayed it so many times that I may get the full version. Its a Tower Defense type game, which I have never really cared for, but in VR its really fun.

 

 

Madmatt

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December so they say for the headset and Feb for the peripherals.

 

200FOV split over 2 4k screens, not the same as current HMD single screen designs.

 

Screens 4k but driven from GPU at 1440p per screen then upscaled.  Current pre-release HMD displays are said to be driven by mobile 1070 Nvidia GPU. This would seem to make it more than accessible for current GPU hardware.

 

As for screen refresh, how do multi monitor setups handle 1440p at above 60hz? Can freesync or gsync be used?

 

As for waiting for Vive or Occulas, I've been sitting on the VR fence for a while but I am tired of pixel peeking on my 27inch monitor and for the price of under a larger monitor replacement, I am going to go with this HMD.

 

Yes not true rendered 4k per eye but 2k is good enough without the screendoor that plagues current HMDs.  As for 200DOV, well I will not have to turn my neck as much to spot you guys blasting my tail.  The current 4k headset is quite light compared to the competition and I am assuming Pimax will try to develop this similarly.  I have been tracking their forums and I like the degree of communication and results of customer feedback they try to resolve.  They seem genuinely interested in providing a good VR experience.

 

So is my impression.

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If I have to upgrade my GPU so be it  :rolleyes:  Currently running a 1070 so would probably expect around 60+ fps using this headset but I have grown waaaaay to used to my 144hz monitor so would want as many frames as possible. Getting a second 1070 for SLI or a 1080ti would probably have to be done to reach those "acceptable" frame rates  :ph34r:

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I will most likely test it out if the price is not beyond the stars.

FOV is beside the higher pixeldensity the most important thing. With a wider FOV you can check six easier and more natural without having to turn your whole body like you have to do with the narrow FOVed Rift and Vive.

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200 degree FoV seems rather pointless to me. I'm not a rabbit nor do I have eyes in the back of my skull. A little more than 90 degree would be nice

 

I think the same. I would not demand much more FOV, for example 130 or 140FoV

 

Human eye has ~200-220-degree FoV.  Admittedly at such extremes it is just movement you notice but it is vital in a threat environment for human survival, such as air combat.  I would say having the 200-degree FoV would be far more realistic then the current tunnel vision with existing headsets such as Rift or Vive.

Edited by ICDP

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It's funny how so many people here don't know what they're talking about, how VR actually displays differently than a monitor, what is important for image quality, etc. "I have been sitting on the fence, I'm waiting for this and that" just speaks volumes.

 

I know I'm not the most agreeable person, and I do not intend to. I am only interested in what is right, and not what is what people believe to be right. So here comes the disillusionizing truth - I'd put a trigger-warning in here, but I'm no American and I assume most here are grown-ups who can deal with a bit of blunt proper talk:

 

@Bullets @blitze

60Hz is not enough to defeat nausea and have perception of depth. I'm battle-hardened from sailing AND flying, just accept my comment as a fact, when I confirm to you what the developers of Rift and Vive both found out over the course of 2 year testing. If a man is cross-eyed or strongly short-sighted (like most Chinese -> Pimax devs), it might work with 60Hz ceiling, because depth perception will not develop then anyway - just as such a man is probably bad at ball-sports and doesn't really know what depth perception is - not his fault. It's just a natural disadvantage that sucks. I was short-sighted as well starting in my late teens, got contacts to work around that for twelve years, and got lasered last year, now I enjoy eagle eyes. Glasses kill depth perception, in both RL and in VR, they warp inter-pupillary-distance and other depth cues such as texture and light, it's a major distadvantage. My transition is the reason I know these things as facts.

 

The Chinese who are building the Pimax are probably short-sighted, like the large majority of Chinese are unfortunately these days, and dear Lord I hope they got some good testers with proper vision - because the worst case would mean that they just don't know what the heck they're actually doing.

 

 

Most important is a good tracking system without any puke-inducing-drift, a Rift/Vive-like ultra-low-latency for good depth-perception, together with 90Hz refresh rate in a section of 4 out of 5 minutes play (1 minute for nausea to build up and 4 minutes for nausea to settle down is a good ratio). Non-square pixel frames to let your brain defeat SDE are important - you will look right through the frame ignoring it after a few minutes. Windows' MR HMDs lack that! Also, if you use glasses, you will see a much stronger SDE. Believe me, I know the difference first hand. Use contacts (in daily life as well so your brain can learn depth perception, if you have used glasses for several years, or get lasered, best descision ever!). Then come good Rift/Vive-like lenses so the edges of vision are focusable sharply as well, then actual PD (4k/8k is useless if stretched over a big FOV!), then FOV (which you cannot use without good lenses anyway). 

 

This is some further in-depth information so anyone can educate himself a bit on how VR works:

https://developer.oculus.com/design/latest/concepts/bp_app_imaging/

Edited by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

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I hope Pimax does well, I really do as competition is a good thing. 

So far I am not real impressed with them, probably more so due to their marketing speak than anything.

If anyone thinks they are going to get true 8K resolution in that headset, well I have some land here in FL I would love to sell you!

I also was not very impressed with the "spamming" they did over on the Oculus forums touting their upcoming new device and kickstarter.Surprisingly Oculus did not seem to mind...

Now that is not to say it will not be better than the first generation of Rift and Vive, but also it will have some shortcomings compared to them as well. Both Oculus and HTC offer a full turn key package, with excellent software and support to back them up. And both devices are considerably cheaper than they were at the start of 2017. And both are working on some really great things for their next generation of device, which will be a turn key product as well.

 

Now in so far as some of these new " mixed reality" and "augmented reality" devices coming out, from the likes of MS, LG, Acer, Oculus, etc.  

There was a fairly large gap between the mobile VR market, and full true VR market. This gap will be filled with these newer devices. They will be good for some VR experiences, movies, pictures,  and some types of games. For what we do, they will not be quite on par with what we get with the full VR devices like we have now. My concern is that many in the PC gaming market get caught up in these for their first VR devices, and come away not so impressed and giving up on VR for their PC gaming.

 

Yes current generation of PC-VR is lacking in some areas, namely in resolution and SDE. I personally am not that bothered by the FOV, but would appreciate it being a little larger which I am sure the next gen will be.  For me I hardly even notice SDE, if I focus my eyes on it I don't really see what is beyond out in front of me, if I focus on what is out there rather than closer up like the SDE is, then I don't really notice the SDE. 

Resolution is probably the biggest issue, and for me like many the immersion is so great I can live with the resolution.

But undoubtedly the next generation will be quite an advancement for both of these, I don't know about HTC but Oculus we are probably a little over a year away, and really that is not that long. We do know Oculus has a lot of very experienced engineers, we know they are working on eye tracking, better hand tracking, foveated rendering. But they are also keeping a lot close to the vest, which is understandable.  

 

And of course there will be the new Pimax offering which will be sooner, I will be watching reports on those closely but plan on still holding out to see what the big two bring us going forward. Who knows, maybe they will put a fire under Oculus and HTC to get them moving on the next gen sooner.

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It seems that there`s a lot of doubt about this in the air, because Pimax, the Chinese and so on.

 

I don`t care who or what company makes the device, if it has a chance to fix the main thing what stops me using VR, the horrible resolution. Bigger fov is only a bonus really. There has been satisfied customers of the previous Pimax 4k even on this site, flying the BoS. All that matters to me if it`s working with BoS and the resolution is satisfactory. I`m not expecting a full 8k, marketing speeches are what they are. With all companies, not just Pimax. And they seem to be working with eye tracking for example if I`ve understand correctly. I never had any nausea or anything with Oculus and don`t think it`s a problem with Pimax.

 

These are the reasons why this is very interesting to me. Of course it could be just another failure, it happens. But it`s very positive that we have some hope to get decent res for the VR in near future.

Edited by Zami
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It seems that there`s a lot of doubt about this in the air, because Pimax, the Chinese and so on.

 

I don`t care who or what company makes the device, if it has a chance to fix the main thing what stops me using VR, the horrible resolution. Bigger fov is only a bonus really. There has been satisfied customers of the previous Pimax 4k even on this site, flying the BoS. All that matters to me if it`s working with BoS and the resolution is satisfactory. I`m not expecting a full 8k, marketing speeches are what they are. With all companies, not just Pimax. And they seem to be working with eye tracking for example if I`ve understand correctly. I never had any nausea or anything with Oculus and don`t think it`s a problem with Pimax.

 

These are the reasons why this is very interesting to me. Of course it could be just a another failure, it happens. But it`s very positive that we have some hope to get decent res for the VR in near future.

 

This.

Gamebreakers for me only were low resolution and crappy FOV. Rest is awesome.

For me its not a question if I will be back in VR but only when.

If pimax manages to fix that and otherwise delivers close or equal to Rfit/Vive performance I am all sold.

Edited by Irgendjemand

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Kickstarter is live. Prices are too high for me to buy into the blue. Ill be waiting on reviews. If it rocks ill pull the trigger.

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