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Pimax 8k / 5k VR headsets coming to Kickstarter this month!

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21 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

 

For Il2 belive me 5k+ is munch better choice and this game will even strugle on rtx 2080ti.

I tested IL2 with Pimax 8k in Berlin and distance details was on pair with my Vive becouse simply 1080ti is not enough to set high SS values to drive 8k. 5 k+ gives you munch better distance visuals with the same amount of SS and resolutions. SDE is great in both devices thanks to RGB matrix but sde is not a resolutions and upscaling with low res makes picture really blury.

Reasuming SDE is pent-tille matrix issue of first gen hedset including vive pro and odyssey but in Pimax 5k/8k during gameplay session is hard to even notice sde .

 

Thanks for this, I just read it.  Very helpful to see something iL-2 specific.  Do you have any thoughts about Brainwarp?  Is it vaporware?  If it might actually come to fruition, do you think it would be a big benefit?

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I don’t think brainwarp is vaporware, but you should not rely on it. We don’t know when it comes and what it provides. 

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11 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Do you have any thoughts about Brainwarp?  Is it vaporware?  If it might actually come to fruition, do you think it would be a big benefit?

 

My thoughts:

753952a2f9707f6e36dbd22c884ae342038e350e

Edited by TWHYata_PL
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On 9/18/2018 at 6:47 AM, TunaEatsLion said:

Czesc,

Can you tell me how far away from you, you could tell (4km?2km?) the outline of an aircraft in front of you, rather than being just a dark dot in the sky With the 5k+. With Rift its really something like 0.5km for me...

FYI, you might want to know that you will be able to ID people at 5km and more just like normal monitor players can, if you utilize lefuneste's 3dmigoto mod. In the Rift. 

 

Thanks for the reviews on the Pimaxes guys! It's really interesting. 

 

I'd be most interested in how much easier it becomes to look over your shoulder like this.

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From what I read we wont be able to run it at very high res with current systems and not even a 2080Ti.

And if we want to use larger FOV will be more demanding in resources.

 

If we use it in normal view will it look like the Vive pro looks right now or better?

Vive Pro to me looked good, and performance was the same if not better than Oculus (just couldnt live with the tiny sweetspot after paying $1,200).

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4 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

From what I read we wont be able to run it at very high res with current systems and not even a 2080Ti.

And if we want to use larger FOV will be more demanding in resources.

 

If we use it in normal view will it look like the Vive pro looks right now or better?

Vive Pro to me looked good, and performance was the same if not better than Oculus (just couldnt live with the tiny sweetspot after paying $1,200).

Normal view, which is 150°, looks much better, according to the reviewers. It's going to have better SDE, better resolution and over 100° of sweetspot.

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Still waiting for shipping......

 

Wonder if they will have light houses ready, if not, could we use the gyros and front LED's with OpenTrack or something to give us seated 6DOF?

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

From what I read we wont be able to run it at very high res with current systems and not even a 2080Ti.

And if we want to use larger FOV will be more demanding in resources.

 

Per my understanding:  The problem resides with the 8K unit requiring a higher res to be equal to the 5K+.  The 5K+ unit will run fine at higher res levels due to the native res of the panels.  There are 3 FOV settings in both units.  Small, Normal and Large.  A reviewer said with IL-2 the Normal FOV is probably best.  Normal is about 170 degrees diagonal.  SDE on both units is better than existing HMDs.  Both units require above a 1070.

 

There are benefits to the 8K however what is needed hardware wise and settings to drive the 8K properly for IL-2 is still is question. 

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New review by SweViver regarding update to the PiTool.  IL-2 at ~13:30.

 

 

 

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95
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I have updated the SS ratios table according to the new Pitool update. Even at Normal FOV, It require a significantly higher number of pixel to be rendered. Those devices will really load our GPUs!

 

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Quote

150% in Rift = 128% in Vive = 128% in Odyssey = 72% in VivePro = 40% in Pimax 5K+ = 44% in Pimax 8K

 

Hmmm...  Do I understand this right?  A SteamVR setting of 100% (1.0) for the Pimax 8K would equal ~340% (3.40) for the Rift?  I did notice the numbers in the table for the 8K are for Normal (170 Diagonal) not Full (~200 Diagonal) FOV.

 

Currently at 1.0 in PiTools (v76) and 1.0 in SteamVR SweViver is getting ~75-80 fps on the 8K in Normal mode in IL-2 with a 1080Ti OC'ed.  Not sure how this compares to other HMDs but it would be interesting to know.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

A SteamVR setting of 100% (1.0) for the Pimax 8K would equal ~340% (3.40) for the Rift? 

 

Yes, in terms of pixels to be rendered, so load to GPU (the closer SS number is in fact 345.2% so 346%). But the 8K runs at 80Hz, so it would be like running the Rift at 346*8/9 = 306%

We can all try that in our cards.

40 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Currently at 1.0 in PiTools (v76) and 1.0 in SteamVR SweViver is getting ~75-80 fps on the 8K in Normal mode in IL-2 with a 1080Ti OC'ed.  Not sure how this compares to other HMDs but it would be interesting to know.

 

I believe he is using  Low or Balanced and no mirrors, no clouds, just one plane, flat area, etc. So the CPU is not bottlenecked at all.

The curious thing is that the GPU load seems to be always around 65%, which is surprising.

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2 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

guys please look at this photos

 

Yeah, this is a very nice video. He really is going to the very detail of the pixel arrangement of 5K+ and 8K.

 

I was counting the pixel (I understand a pixel is an area where I can activate Red, or Green or Blue individually) and there is something I don´t understand.

 

Theoretically:

one column of pixels of 5K+ is equivalent to 1.5 columns in the 8K. (ie 3840/2560=1.5)

one row of pixels of 5K+ is equivalent to 1.5 columns in the 8K (ie 2160/1444=1.5 or 1.496)

 

On the horizontal counts it seems that it is OK the ratio, but vertically it doesn´t match. It seems that the 5K+ has more pixels vertically (perhaps a better panel utilisation??). I tend to believe that the 8K panel is really a 3840x1080 panel. Because 1444/1080 is very similar to 18/14.

 

I have edited one of their pictures for the R of SKYRIM in 5K+ and 8K:

 

1805369651_pixelshoriz-vertiPimax5Kvs8K.thumb.jpg.a826bbb5ed85133de368e13ba18c1fe3.jpg

Edited by chiliwili69
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This is literally going to kill me waiting to get my hands on one of these things. Wish I was rich I'd buy a backer out right now.

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If you trasnlate the spanish review I posted above you will see that they are not as kind with the 5K+ device (they only tested 5K+).

They compliant about distortion on the edges, ergonomic, software quality, etc... I think they are quite personal in their reviews...but VR reviews are always subjective...

More on Pimax forum:

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/analysis-of-the-pimax-5k-in-real-o-virtual-in-spanish/8553/54

Edited by chiliwili69
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Take SweViver  images and video with a grain of salt.  He shoots in jpg with automatic camera settings for white balance.  At least he is using manual focus with a Macro capable lense but until we get proper non processed shots of the 5K+ and 8K, there are to many variables in the images that are distorting what is being viewed.

 

He also goes on to post process his JPG images to try and compensate for the automatic settings of his through the lense shots.  This would be adding more distortions and artifacts to the original images and then re compressing them back into JPG's again.  Poor testing processes in my book which clouds the issues being discussed sending many into a tizz.

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I mean both are lightyears clearer than my current headset the oculus. I'll take anything at this point.

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3 hours ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

I mean both are lightyears clearer than my current headset the oculus. I'll take anything at this point.

Me too...same.

On 9/24/2018 at 5:42 AM, SvAF/F16_radek said:

very very impressive. What is the latest eta for us non-backers?

Q1 2019.?

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LOL

The resolution of pentile panels is calculated to the good of manufacturers using the same subpixels twice. You should divide that resolution by 1.5

IMHO using pentile in pimax 8K given that there is a cheaper 5k+ with true rgb layout just kills 8k.

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9 hours ago, TUS_Samuel said:

LOL

The resolution of pentile panels is calculated to the good of manufacturers using the same subpixels twice. You should divide that resolution by 1.5

IMHO using pentile in pimax 8K given that there is a cheaper 5k+ with true rgb layout just kills 8k.

 

Xunshu has told SweViver that the 8K is not a pentile panel and is rgb.

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Thank you for linking this Dburne.

Disheartening to see such poor performance. Some of it probably down to the 3.5ghz cpu they used, though not enough.
I wish they had gone in to more detail regarding ergonomics, image quality, lens distortion and so on.

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Bear in mind that DCS video is from a YouTuber who has constantly been effervescent in his praise of Pimax, is a pre-release user, and is motivated gaining YouTube views. The Tom's article is probably a more neutral review; they don't have anything to gain from being biased (lol, except in the NVidia "just buy it" article a couple of weeks ago...)

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50 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

Bear in mind that DCS video is from a YouTuber who has constantly been effervescent in his praise of Pimax, is a pre-release user, and is motivated gaining YouTube views. The Tom's article is probably a more neutral review; they don't have anything to gain from being biased (lol, except in the NVidia "just buy it" article a couple of weeks ago...)

 

Really ? Tom's has a Best VR headsets compilation regrouping all the Pimax competitors with affiliated amazon links...

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43 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

...who has constantly been effervescent in his praise of Pimax...

 

His involvement goes well beyond just being a "YouTuber".  When the M1 was released, he along with 9 other testers, were under NDA for 3 months of unpaid time while they gave feedback to Pimax on the HMDs.  The M1 initially had disappointing results to all the testers.  It took the testers and Pimax that time to work out the bugs, including several iterations of the lenses at $50,000 a pop.  Further improvements came about with the M2 which, after the NDAs passed, he and others have kept the community abreast of.  Sorry, but these guys have provided an important service to backers.  Tom's?  Not so much.

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7 minutes ago, neelrocker said:

Really ? Tom's has a Best VR headsets compilation regrouping all the Pimax competitors with affiliated amazon links...

 

Regardless, they seem to have a fact-based conclusion that 5k Pimax without foveated rendering to improve performance is a dead-end, even with an RTX 2080 (and by implication a 2080ti):


 

Quote

 

Our RTX 2080 didn’t fare much better with SPT with 100 percent render scaling. We achieved a 55.73 fps average with the fancy new card, which still falls far short of the desired 90 fps. We could dial back the image quality settings in the game to achieve a higher frame rate, but it would be unlikely for the in-game settings to net enough gains to negate the use of reprojection.


 

Quote


Based on our test results, we can emphatically say that you won’t be able to play this game at full rendering resolution any time soon. Our GTX 1070 coughed and sputtered while trying to keep up with the game in Normal FOV, and it didn’t even deliver 40 fps. The RTX 2080 didn’t do much better with an average of 53.34 delivered fps.

 

 

Quote

 

In this game, our RTX 2080 performed significantly better than the GTX 1070 compared to other games, but the performance was, again, far short of the desired mark, with an average of 56.93 fps. SteamVR’s recommended resolution offered a slight bump in performance, but 64 fps won’t get you away from reprojection.


 

 

3 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

His involvement goes well beyond just being a "YouTuber".  When the M1 was released, he along with 9 other testers, were under NDA for 3 months of unpaid time while they gave feedback to Pimax on the HMDs.  The M1 initially had disappointing results to all the testers.  It took the testers and Pimax that time to work out the bugs, including several iterations of the lenses at $50,000 a pop.  Further improvements came about with the M2 which, after the NDAs passed, he and others have kept the community abreast of.  Sorry, but these guys have provided an important service to backers.  Tom's?  Not so much.

 

My point is that he's very likely to be biased towards the Pimax and invested in its success. Tom's is saying that the device simply cannot be powered by current GPUs, even on well optimized made-for-VR titles.

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If you have watched any of his YouTube vids, then you are aware he points out the bad along with the good.  He, along with the other testers, have stressed that current gpus will be an issue with these HMDs.  Pimax made an announcement to this effect.  Tom's article wasn't news in this regard.  The testers have provided performance test results on both of the HMDs in many games on various settings.  In some games the fps are good on current gpus, on others they aren't.  As far as liking Pimax, he does.  So do all the testers and those backers who have tried them in person.  They know the quality of the competition and how Pimax compares.  The testers do have their differences among themselves as to what they like and don't like but this is generally in the more subjective areas.

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24 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

Regardless, they seem to have a fact-based conclusion that 5k Pimax without foveated rendering to improve performance is a dead-end, even with an RTX 2080 (and by implication a 2080ti):

 

Have you seen the crap "facts" this conclusion is based on ?

 

The performance testing methodology is calibrated to show up poor average framerates allowing to "conclude" current GPU are far from being able to drive those pimax.

 

The low avg are the result of reprojection, and reprojection will happen as soon as you drop 1fps below 90fps. This means a game running 50% of the time @90fps and the rest 50% at 89fps will have an avg of 67fps. Seems to mean you'd need much more GPU to reach 90fps, right ? Of course not as any option lowered 1 tick would result in 90fps 100% of the time.

 

See how the method is missleading ?

 

Just look at the unconstrained fps proving there was a lot of GPU headroom.

Edited by neelrocker
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4 minutes ago, neelrocker said:

Have you seen the crap "facts" this conclusion is based on ?

 

FCAT is NVidia's tool for properly benchmarking VR performance.

 

https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/fcat-vr-download-and-how-to-guide

 

Using this data FCAT VR users can create charts and analyze data for frametimes, dropped frames, runtime warp dropped frames, and Asynchronous Space Warp (ASW) synthesized frames, revealing stutters, interpolation, and the experience received when gaming on any GPU in the tested Virtual Reality game.

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