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Pimax 8k / 5k VR headsets coming to Kickstarter this month!

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25 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Well I'll keep my money on Rift...😎

 

:good:

 

I be with you there.

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I follow this topic mainly because I want to buy an VRset and trying to absorb every info, so after following all the replies I think. 

The next VR sets like Pimax and StarVR, are looking very promising, only without doing a big investment like an €1250,- RTX2080ti and maybe a new i9 CPU, this whole next VR seems to be rather useless. 

If running a GTX1070-1080ti range Vcard, like many others here and do not have the budget, I guess the Samsung Odessey could be the best alternative, to start when being new on VR?  Or am I, (as being on the market for an VRset), complete wrong on this? 

 

My rig:

GTX1080

i7-7700k @4,6Ghz 

 

 

Edited by Dutch2
RTX2080ti video now included

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yes when you are Living in the US, Odyssey not sold in europe, only reimport

 

Edited by II/JG11ATLAN

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13 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

The next VR sets like Pimax and StarVR, are looking very promising, only without doing a big investment like an €1250,- RTX2080ti and maybe a new i9 CPU, this whole next VR seems to be rather useless

 

I think that statement is false.

 

As we have seen in other videos the limiting factor for the Pimax5K+ is the CPU, not the GPU.

 

In this new video from VooDooDE with the Pimax8K  (where he is using the HUD on!!!, the HUD eats lots of fps!) we see that the time frames for CPU are very close to 11ms, so not leaving enough time for the GPU to make the render.

So, the problem of VR for IL-2 is not dependent on the VR device you use (Rift, Vive, VivePro, WMR, Pimax) since all of them face the same problem: CPU limiting the whole game.

That´s why we need to reduce the graphics settings significantly to achieve 90 fps most of the time.

 

 

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The German video above is very nice and all, but with a CPU frame time of 16ms you're never going to actually *test* whether the GPU can supply the frames. If anyone is reading this and looking to show off IL2, please use BALANCED graphics settings in game and consider turning down a few other options until your CPU FRAME TIME is less than 11ms. Otherwise you're not testing ANYTHING about your GPU or the required horsepower for IL2 on Pimax.

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I noticed his resolution was set to 2560 x 1440.  Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I saw in Sweviver's video to set in-game res at the lowest res as this only applies to the monitor and not the HMD (which is controlled by the PiTool/SteamVR settings) and the higher in-game res setting will only cause lower fps for the HMD as the cpu is working to produce a higher quality picture on the  monitor.

 

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95

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16 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I noticed his resolution was set to 2560 x 1440.  Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I saw in Sweviver's video to set in-game res at the lowest res as this only applies to the monitor and not the HMD (which is controlled by the PiTool/SteamVR settings) and the higher in-game res setting will only cause lower fps for the HMD as the cpu is working to produce a higher quality picture on the  monitor.

 

Yes, the 2560x1440 of the monitor view is independent from what you see in the VR device. It doesn´t affects too much the performance (we measure that in the past).

Normally we put a low resolution.

He was at the same time recording the game with another application, so that´s the reason for putting that resolution...

I don´t know german, but my little daugther is studying now to count in german, maybe I can ask her to watch the video and trasnlate...

Edited by chiliwili69

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

I don´t know german, but my little daugther is studying now to count in german, maybe I can ask her to watch the video and trasnlate...

 

Switch on automatic subtitles with the CC button, then translate to the language of your choice in Settings. Not perfect but certainly you can understand what he's saying. I think he's playing on mouse and is fairly new to IL2.

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I have a suspicion how much you see is more of a performance issue than the resolution. Has any of the testers mentioned anything about customizable fov for these pimaz hmd's? 

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6 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

I have a suspicion how much you see is more of a performance issue than the resolution. Has any of the testers mentioned anything about customizable fov for these pimaz hmd's? 

 

Yes, 3 FOVs, I believe they are Small ~ 110, Normal ~150, and Large ~170.  All measured horizontal vs diagonal.

 

Come to think of it that's another concern with VooDooDE's test, what mode was he in, SweViver recommended Normal mode for IL-2.

 

 

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:08 PM, SvAF/F16_radek said:

16 cores sounds like lot's of,, cores. Share more about your setup Henree. A xeon?

i7-5960x watercooled at 4ghz 64gb of ddr5 and a strix 11gb 1080ti

maybe I am just imagining it runs okay.

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16 hours ago, Henree said:

i7-5960x watercooled at 4ghz 64gb of ddr5 and a strix 11gb 1080ti

 

It would be good if you could just run the IL-2 benchmark, maybe we have a nice surprise.

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You'll have to write a review when you get everything up & working.I hope its a great improvement over my Oculus...the price difference appears to be pretty steep...🙄

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On 10/19/2018 at 3:53 AM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Hey, 

I did, but this is basically ASW for the Vive (pro). People reported that it distorts their image and locks to 45fps.

 

Rift and WMR already have ASW. Pimax won't be supported as it uses a different compositor, correct me if I'm wrong. It's no loss to IL 2 players though, due to heavy artifacting, so no worries you're not missing out with a Pimax. o7

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:06 AM, Blitzen said:

You'll have to write a review when you get everything up & working.

 

Yes for sure, I will do that, but according to the table shipments I should expect mine around mid December.

If it arrives before, I am prevented from IL-2 during all November.

 

The reason (sorry for off topic) is because I put my PC at the storage room for the whole month just to disconnect my 11-yr son from videogames, or more precisely from "Fornite". We set certain limits for playing videogames (2hours Wednesday, 3hours Saturday, 3 hours Sunday) but it seems it was not enough for him. Every time we said “you exceeded your time” it was confrontation with him. The game excites him too much and he was later a bit unable to find enjoyment in any outdoor activity. I understand that “Fornite” is very addictive to young people, they are meeting online together to be superheros shooting everything around (I suppose like IL-2 multiplayer).

So about 2 weeks ago I decided to cut the PC thing for a month. So far the result is ok, but he is counting the days to have the PC again.

 

I don´t know how all this new generation of young people is going to evolve in their lives with all this amazing videogames. I don´t know how to teach them to balance that in their lives.

It is like a drug for them. Maybe I will open another thread in the free subject to get advice...

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:53 PM, chiliwili69 said:

Here we can see the progress of the shipments:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sK1w_-gU6LaPYmZF1B-5W-Mr7gC1pFTuGkv2WBrQr-Y

 

I am in 954!!

 

Just ahead of me then, I am 966.  I originally backed a 5K and was low 200, when I "upgraded" to 8K my number went to 966.  Was annoyed but thought it was worth for the increased sharpness and now I plan to switch to the 5K+.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing 😄

Edited by ICDP

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12 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I don´t know how all this new generation of young people is going to evolve in their lives with all this amazing videogames.


My 3.5 year old son built a gun out of lego today and yelled he will shoot us with his shooter. This after I've spent 3.5 years avoiding him seeing any kind of violence or even a news broadcast. Sometimes the only thing you feel you can do as a parent is worry, and probably that was what our parents felt like..

Sorry for the OT

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Requested on time to change in the Preorder the Pimax 5K BE VR Headset ( Refresh rate 85+-2 Hz ) for the Pimax 5K+ Plus BE VR Headset ( Refresh rate of 90 Hz ) that has the same price 999.00$ but before  in the preorder was not available .

 

Shipping prevision on Christmas just before the end of this December or by the Genuary of  2019 .

 

The ideal Future VR that not exists already should be the Pimax 8k+ plus with a Refresh rate of 90 HZ or the best the PIMAX 8K+ Plus BE with a Refresh  rate of 90 HZ the same Refresh rate like the HTC VIVE PRO .

 

The Pimax 8k VR Headset has 80 Hz of Refresh rate right now .

 

Intel core i9 9.900k .....

Meanwhile for the large waiting before the shipping this with  Headset VR-F117-A Stealth  movie:

So sorry for the middle Rolling movie of  its violence , I recommend to see the opening and the end only , and it’s in Deutsch . 

 

Edited by RAY-EU

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7 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

 


My 3.5 year old son built a gun out of lego today and yelled he will shoot us with his shooter. This after I've spent 3.5 years avoiding him seeing any kind of violence or even a news broadcast. Sometimes the only thing you feel you can do as a parent is worry, and probably that was what our parents felt like..

Sorry for the OT

Don't know where you are from, but It feels like in the US, you have so many super hero movies released every year, that it feels like they are conditioning the younger generation for the army with that stuff.   Many actions of those films mirror some aspect of it.

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Pardon I was focused with the VR´s a did not pay attention ! At observations . & Also  Just 5 minutes of reflection .

My kids are now playing with the plastic guns that are like machine guns and plastic granades and projectiles shooters in the garden with the others neighborshoods Kids because my wife has bought last Christmas & , I was not agree .I do not leave them forbidden The Call of duty or The Battlefield with the Play station IV 500 of 9 to 13 years old maximum the Star Wars Battelfield II . I am trying with my daughter to introduce them with the just dance but I am desperate is impossible, I have make the order that they first study and do the homework’s with the particular Theacher , so they are doing good results and efforts in the school and for the weekends only the play stations ! Now I wake up to go to school with all them , first the study exams and homework’s and the results are good ! Them weekend to Play . So they  are all the time after connecting with the moviles and ...

So Sorry Pardon ,  they sometimes I do not know !  access at this forums of Il2 Sturmovik and also put  things .....! Because they want to play Also at IL2 BOX they like very much!.

Edited by RAY-EU
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On 11/17/2018 at 12:52 AM, chiliwili69 said:

The reason (sorry for off topic) is because I put my PC at the storage room for the whole month just to disconnect my 11-yr son from videogames, or more precisely from "Fornite". We set certain limits for playing videogames (2hours Wednesday, 3hours Saturday, 3 hours Sunday) but it seems it was not enough for him. Every time we said “you exceeded your time” it was confrontation with him. The game excites him too much and he was later a bit unable to find enjoyment in any outdoor activity. I understand that “Fornite” is very addictive to young people, they are meeting online together to be superheros shooting everything around (I suppose like IL-2 multiplayer).

So about 2 weeks ago I decided to cut the PC thing for a month. So far the result is ok, but he is counting the days to have the PC again.

 

With my kids we ended up setting Parental Controls on the PCs (they have one each, low specs) so they can't use them before 9am or after 6pm, and the PC is in the family area so they can't do anything private really. I think you might be able to get specific Fortnite parental controls with limits to screen time.

 

Here's a fancy $99 thing that somehow plugs into your home network. It's a bit of an expense but apparently it has a Fortnite filter on it: 

 

https://meetcircle.com/circle-home

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4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Here's a fancy $99 thing that somehow plugs into your home network. It's a bit of an expense but apparently it has a Fortnite filter on it: 

 

https://meetcircle.com/circle-home

 

Thanks Alonzo for this link. It should be much better than arguing with him everytime. Sometimes tech plays in favour of parents!. 😉

We also had two IPads at home, but about 2 years ago I also put them at storage room and they are still there. 

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Change accepted Pimax 5K BE VR Head Set of 85+-2Hz of Refresh Rate for the

                                 Pimax 5K+ Plus BE VR Headset of 90 Hz of Refresh Rate  Shipping this Christmas!

For the same Price of 999.00 $ .

Edited by RAY-EU

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Both are at the same price ! 999.00$

the manager that confirm me the chage do not required me an extra cost . 

You can see at the web site for same cost 

in the preorder that VR was not released!

https://pimaxvr.com/collections/all

Edited by RAY-EU

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Here's what i'd really like to know when you get this new VR up & running : does it operate with better quality & i guess FPS than my current Oculus Rift and is it worth the extra money? As a side issue will I need to upgrade to the newest Nvidea graphics card as well adding additional cost or will I be able to use my 1 1/2 year old card for a bit longer? i've had Oculus from almost day one  ( with the then top of the line Nvidea graphics card & in general I've been more than happy, waiting for the next generation of Rift to appear this year,BUT it is my understanding that I shouldn't be expecting too much of an improvement from Oculus in the near term which is pretty disappointing. I have saved the money to move up to Pixma but it needs to be well worth the added investment. I wonder if there will be ( or already is a Forum where such questions are already being answered?)

  I figure guys here who already play Box Great battles are in a more favorable position to answer how well the new VR spoken about here actually works with this sim...my favorite BTW.

Can do?😉

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5 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

does it operate with better quality & i guess FPS

 

See

 

It seems viable, but requires a strong GPU.

 

Better resolution means clearer image, something valuable in this game when you spend a lot of time looking far ahead. It should be about the same clarity as the Vive Pro and the Samsung Odyssey, maybe even a bit better. Also important, is the increased FOV, which will make it easier to check your six.

 

More pixels also means increased GPU needs. I'd guess a 1080ti will be a minimum, although some might be comfortable with less powerful CPUs and 45 FPS.

I hope Pimax will add a 60Hz mode, as they have promised. It's primarily meant for viewing videos, but in gaming, it will be easier to reach and maintain, and is possibly enough for seated games.

 

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90fps is not actually about the graphics per se. It's about percieved delay between how you expect the camera position to change and how it actually changes.

 

Naturally we expect it to be not noticeable, which is smooth at something around 11ms. The frame of course has to be prepared for each position delta.

 

Any bigger delay you may or may not notice depending on your personal physiological condition or habits.

 

So I don't understand how 60fps mode will help here. That will have to be something like ASW or whatever.

 

You can get 60fps on anything that can technically provide 90fps. It's just that approximation is easier when you have to approximate just each second frame exactly in the middle on a stable sequence, hence the 45fps lock on some implementations. 60 fps would mean that you will have to approximate only 1/3 of frames and that might give a non-consistent sequence of input data for approxomation. Humans will get used to it though, subconciously. As they've got used to 45fps ASW.

 

At least that's how I see it. I'm not a VR developer.

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Just went to the PIXMAX site & noticed the pethera of models with and without 2080 graphic cards ,5k & 8k. i can afford the 5k models but the 8k are out of the question at this time.Will 5k offer the substantial improvement to be worth considering at this time?

 do I need to pay any attention to Steam support of these new VR devices?

FYI:

Just a month before the company expected to begin shipping the first “5K” and “8K” headsets to backers of its Kickstarter campaign, Pimax introduced a new model, the “5K” Plus. Though it has a lower resolution than the higher-end “8K,” those who have previewed the headsets largely agree that the “5K” Plus offers the sharpest image, creating confusion for backers who put their money toward the “8K” with the hopes of getting the headset with the best visual fidelity.

 

When introducing the Pimax “5K” Plus headset, the company thoughtfully decided to upgrade all existing “5K” backers to the newer headset and have provided backers of the higher resolution (and more expensive) “8K” headset the option to receive a “5K” Plus instead, along with a $100 coupon toward Pimax accessories.

While the company did the right thing as far as giving its backers a chance to switch, the move has turned into something of a marketing debacle, as backers of the “8K” believed they were buying into the headset with the greatest visual fidelity, and many are now torn about whether or not they should exercise their option to choose the “5K” Plus.

 

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16 minutes ago, dvndmmy said:

You can get 60fps on anything that can technically provide 90fps. It's just that approximation is easier when you have to approximate just each second frame exactly in the middle on a stable sequence, hence the 45fps lock on some implementations. 60 fps would mean that you will have to approximate only 1/3 of frames and that might give a non-consistent sequence of input data for approxomation. Humans will get used to it though, subconciously. As they've got used to 45fps ASW.

 

60 FPS won't help. With 45 FPS, the graphics card and CPU can run at "half" rate and the Rift fills in the blanks. With 60 FPS, you're asking the GPU+CPU to run at 11ms frame time for two of the frames and then take a vacation for the third frame. I don't think that can help unless there's algorithmic magic to do so.

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When people talk about 60hz mode it is to play @60fps, they don't have 90fps interpolation in mind. And of course it will be easier to reach stable 60fps than 90.

 

Pimax software doesn't currently have any interpolation like ASW anyway, and this is one of the reasons those HMDs require a very high end GPU.

Another reason is older games will require a compatibility mode due to the fact they don't handle angled displays natively. And this compatibility mode has a 30% hit on performance.

And then you have the relatively high resolution and wide fov.

 

That's why some expect they could play using a 60hz mode (or 72Hz, another one planed for movies but that could be used for gaming too).

 

Of course not everybody will be able to tolerate 60hz in VR (72Hz however should be acceptable for more people).

 

Also note none of those alternative refresh rate modes currently exist. Currently 5K+ runs @91Hz and 8K @ 80hz.

Edited by neelrocker

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To paraphrase conversions here or elsewhere, it was basically said that with IL-2 a 2080Ti may may not be worth the investment as IL-2 would be limited in fps returns due to it's cpu usage imitations.  With update 3.007 it has been mentioned that there has been significant increases in VR performance from optimizations in forests, etc.  The question I have is does this mean a 2080Ti may now see significant higher fps returns with IL-2?  Has this been documented by anyone?

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14 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

To paraphrase conversions here or elsewhere, it was basically said that with IL-2 a 2080Ti may may not be worth the investment as IL-2 would be limited in fps returns due to it's cpu usage imitations.  With update 3.007 it has been mentioned that there has been significant increases in VR performance from optimizations in forests, etc.  The question I have is does this mean a 2080Ti may now see significant higher fps returns with IL-2?  Has this been documented by anyone?


I received a ~14fps improvement compared to previous version. This by using the benchmark track and settings outlined in that test. So currently it's all down to how you define significant coupled with how much Supersampling you plan on using. 

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Shipping Pimax Genuary 2019 for Preorders . (Trying with my experience with the Pimax 4 K , so trying  deduce my point of view:)

Nowadays best VR for sim since my point of view is the Samsung Oddyssey + for the Gyroscope sistema motion  ; but in Europe was not posible to buy ; 

Since my experience with the VRs the HTV VIVE PRO usually have many technical problems with the base stations with desconections ! In DED server Multiplayer That is Right now , the VR I am using .

DED server Multiplayer you have icons that telling red enemy and distance . Another days I am in other Multiplayer severs like Winds of liberty , knights of the Air server  Multiplayer ; sometimes  I stay for 1 minute more or less at 7 meters behind of a plane that I do not know if axis or allied ( I do not tell you if the plane is far away ?!) you sometimes only know how they are in combat . ( many times is enemy and he does not know and I am behind ) I go up trying to apreciate the siluette of the wings I trying to appreciate the Skins if I see the red star or the iron black cross nothing appreciation with the VR HTC VIVE PRO losing the time when I could destroy 2-3 enemy planes during that period of time , I do not know appreciate if is Axis or Allied !. That’s the reason I am in the DED server and the TSpeak & radio comunications icons supply.

,  I presume with the Pimax 8k would be not identified problems since  my experience with the 4K monitors years ago .

Pimax probably will be the best VRs with the convination   of  G-sensors , Gyroscope and base Stations .

By the way With the base Stations ( is another dimension) you can do movements that are not posible to do only with the Gyroscopes .

Edited by RAY-EU

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