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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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Love the team balance on TAW... Amazing the Allies are winning when it's constantly a huge mismatch.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, JG51_Ogg said:

I didn't "CHOP THEM UP" to suit my needs.  I simply changed what was 637 lines (yes I counted them to be accurate) of damage to 4 critical events that happen to coincide with critical hits to both you and Gemanuel1

 

That's my definition of "chop them up to suit your needs" like it or lump it.

 

Anyhow there were no "critical hits", I landed at my base & he got slowly minced in a 12 second plus stream of bullets, that he could easily avoided, to the point he bailed out.

 

Your video demonstrates poor technique in flying, gunnery and ground attack in general. Making a second pass on a hot target is a basic mistake and you made at least two, which is just asking to be shot down, either by the AAA or any enemy fighter nearby who you may as well have turned your nav. lights on for and popped all your flares.

 

It may be your joystick sensitivity, but you are all over the place, which will slow you down lots when speed is life in ground attack. This is clearly seen in your spray n' prey strafing, pointless when your target is a bridge and you should have big enough bombs to take it out and anything nearby like AAA. Wasting cannon rounds just puts your bomb aiming off and leaves you with less ammo to defend yourself on the way home.

 

And you want to compare this to what? I don't fly like that in my Pe-2 or anything else.

 

Like your arithmetic, "can fire 174,000 Rounds per minute", enough said.

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

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Posted (edited)

"Artificial gunners have been a controversy "forever". I was a founder of ICI (we did the game warbirds) and recall the challenge of getting game balance correct.

 

History tells us that gunners were amazingly inaccurate. Number of rounds fired against number of claims of kills (adjusted for inaccurate claims after war) tells the whole story.

 

My belief is the developers are trying to do there best but unfortunately there are flaws

 

The gunner is optimized only when the opposing fighter is locked up perfectly at the 12 oclock position. Even then then they're  not really accurate with the plane not being a stable platform and the guns not being a precise weapon when on full automatic fire.

 

If it is a plane vs gunner shootout in the 12 position, I would bet on the fighters multiple weapons vs the simple MG the gunner has. How the gunner survives more than a second or two in the unarmored rear position in this scenario is beyond me.

 

Accuracy falls off dramatically as the gunner has to shoot in deflection . Even 10-15 degrees offset from straight ahead (behind)  throws accuracy out the window. Any more than that it just doesn't happen.  Im not seeing the fall off in accuracy myself and those planes who have a broad (vs limited) traverse of guns have an unfair advantage.

 

The PE from my limited experience is amazing effective in shooting highly accurate "extremely deadly" deflection shots. It makes it "overly" effective. Some will call it a cheat. I prefer to see the allied side taking advantage of the current modeling. The PE did not display the air dominance in the actual battle as it does in the game. If there are settings available they should be turned down to bring them more back into balance.

 

bob (jokkr)

jokk in WB, AW, and AH

 

 

Edited by JG51_jokkr
spelling correction

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Ask for help: I am new to TAW server, registered, but server kicks off me everytime after 1-2 min.

Other servers no problem (WoL, Kota, Berloga,...). My internet connection is good (50/50 Mbit).

What I am missing?

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Posted (edited)

Did you really register on the TAW website?  You will get kicked if you are not registered: http://taw.stg2.de/  Each pilot has a quiver of planes you have permission to fly after you register--if you try to fly a plane you do not have you will get kicked.   According the website, there is a Tapi registered with one sortie for 20 minutes: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=Tapi  Is this you?  Are you trying to fly for the opposite side you registered for?  You will get kicked if you do not fly on the correct side.

 

 

Edited by SCG_Limbo

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Yep , that is me. I always fly LW.

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Well, you got in one 20 minute sortie on the 16th, so I'm at a loss myself.  Never had connection problems to Polish server myself and I'm across the pond.

 

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1 hour ago, JG51_jokkr said:

I was a founder of ICI (we did the game warbirds)

 

loved that game back in the day, especially the historical events.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Ask for help: I am new to TAW server, registered, but server kicks off me everytime after 1-2 min.

Other servers no problem (WoL, Kota, Berloga,...). My internet connection is good (50/50 Mbit).

What I am missing?

 

What aircraft were you flying when you were kicked off the server?

 

I ask this as not all aircraft are always available. To see what you can fly you must check on your personal TAW page.

 

Spoiler

Tapi.JPG.17c1a3bf83820ee2a6127edbcf02c963.JPG

 

Looking at your current available aircraft chart, if you were trying to fly a Bf 109G-2 or an Hs 129B-2 the server would kick you after a few seconds or so.

 

To be able to fly these aircraft you must complete 3 combat missions, check the TAW manual point 4. for details.

 

If you want to quickly rack up combat missions CM to acquire a better plane, I suggest the fastest way is to fly transport missions as they are one way flights that can take less than 10 minutes if you pick the right airfields. Or you can get +3CM for one bomber flight if it lasts over 55 minutes and you get a kill (ground or air) and land safe on a home airfield.

Edited by Pict

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Posted (edited)

I am just next door (Czech Republic) so I should be OK... Weird.

EDIT: Well, just tried Bf 109 F-4 (allowed a/c) on TAW and it is OK. 

Thanks for help to everyone!

Edited by Tapi

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JG51_jokkr said:

If it is a plane vs gunner shootout in the 12 position

 

Is it ever like this?

 

Not for me at any rate. I jink, hedge and tree hop, dive flat out if I have the alt., and sometimes even have a go at a turn fight, which freaks some attackers out totally :)

 

The guy I mentioned above did what the majority of wannbe Hartmans do...he followed me. That's what I meant by "he stayed on my 6 o'clock". I wasn't flying straight and level, there's no point, as it makes you an easy target. Jinking combined with diving and climbing also put the attacker in the best places for all of your gunners in a Pe-2 to have an easy crack at him, which they did in this case.

 

I reckon that the problem most blue fighter jockeys have with the Pe-2 is their own lack of ability.

 

The Pe-2 is a fast, maneuverable and relatively well armed aircraft for a bomber. To shoot it down without being a target yourself, requires you to position yourself ahead of the Pe-2 and attack from the sides, head on, above or below. Anything but following along in the rear gunners cone of fire.

 

Most wannabe Hartmans just want get the easy kill, but it won't happen with a Pe-2. You need to work for it and use your head.

 

The decent pilots, and I've been shot down by a fair few. Hit you fast and hard, never form behind and they don't hang about for long.

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.
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16 hours ago, JG51_Ogg said:

I didn't "CHOP THEM UP" to suit my needs.  I simply changed what was 637 lines (yes I counted them to be accurate) of damage to 4 critical events that happen to coincide with critical hits to both you and Gemanuel1.  Now if you'd like we can go back and ask TAW for the specific coding to be pulled and shown of the hits and what pieces of each aircraft were hit with what bullet (or Fragment since @RedKestrel pointed out possible explosive rounds).  Some of them are possibly pieces of the engine failing ETC:

The fact remains that all Tail Gunners are AI because most bomber pilots know they don't want someone there who isn't picture perfect.  There's a tick mark in the setup to not allow human players into your aircraft.  The reason every bomber pilot checks it is because they know the AI is perfect and can kill everything that comes near.  

To my point here is my camera film from a 110E2 Killing 2 LAGG5 with the tail gunner when they bounced me.  And it's even worse when the 110 is an G2 and can sustain speeds above 500Km/H on the deck.  If I had a human gunner how long would I have lasted?  Yes I said remove the AI option from aircraft and make them manned positions.  Even the lowly 7.7mm tailgun when AI is deadly to attackers when the 110 is flow PE2 style.

 

 

The reason I check the "No human gunner" checkbox is because on the rare occasions I have had a human gunner, they have simply fired off rounds randomly when bored and made me think I was being attacked, or broadcast my position to the enemy with tracer fire. Sometimes gunners have shredded their own planes or targeted friendly planes in formation, which is why human gunners are locked and why TAW does not permit human gunners at all.

It is clearly not true that AI gunners 'destroy everything' that comes into range. We can argue whether they're OP or not all day, there are at least good arguments to support some of that, but this is undeniable fact.

Bf-110 attacked me. Shot me down. Only non-fatal hits, no significant damage. Not Destroyed. https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=43355&name=RedKestrel
109F-2 Attacked me. Shot me down. 4 hits, none significantly damaged. Not destroyed. https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=43339&name=RedKestrel 

2 109E-7s and a 110E2 attacked me. 109E-7 got shot down after hanging on my 6 for a long time, both his friends survived with no/little damage. I got shot down. 1/3 destroyed.  https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8805&name=RedKestrel 
2 109F-4s attacked me. One went entirely undamaged, the other was damaged slightly but landed easily 6 minutes later, so nothing critical. I crashed on my airfield and lost my aircraft. None destroyed. https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=42889&name=RedKestrel

The main factor for any enemy aircraft receiving hits from my gunner was them hanging around for repeated attacks. IF they made a one gun run and done attack they were usually able to critically damage my aircraft such that I had trouble making it home, and avoided major damage from my gunner. 

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9 hours ago, Pict said:

Anyhow there were no "critical hits", I landed at my base & he got slowly minced in a 12 second plus stream of bullets, that he could easily avoided, to the point he bailed out.

 

Again he was dead in less than 2 seconds from the first hit from your tail gunner.  The time stamps don't lie.

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42 minutes ago, JG51_Ogg said:

Again he was dead in less than 2 seconds from the first hit from your tail gunner.  The time stamps don't lie.

 

No they don't...same couldn't be said about you though. Here's the other guy's log and you will see he bailed out...at no point was he "dead" like you say. 12 second plus he sat in my gunners fire whether you like it or not :cool:

 

As you don't mention it, I take it you agree with my appraisal of your attacking technique ;)

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Our experience today...

 

Several could spawn and 2 or 3 managed to take off.

 

I had to wait 9 or so minutes though I'm not sure why.  Others had various times between 7 and 8 minutes.  My last flight (on Tuesday) was a Steam VR problem disconnect after 3min but I have no idea if that is connected to this.  On reflection the flight before that I had to disco after landing as I had the escape key bug so you can't get to finish mission.  I cannot find anything that correlates negative points with spawning delays - maybe someone could point me in the right direction.

 

After spawning I had a message saying the Axis side was full and I was in slot 3, then after a while I got kicked.  I spawned back in twice to get the same message, and was kicked twice.  Several others had slots 8 and 9 etc.  They also got kicked

 

We ended up not flying a sortie because most of us couldn't get in the air, so we all went elsewhere.

 

It is a great server when it works, but the barriers to enjoyment seem very high.

 

von Tom

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Posted (edited)

Hello all.

 

@any TAW admin who can help.

 

I created an account on TAW for AndrewZaytsev, but recently joined the 69th, I forgot my password and created a new account for this name (not to cheat! Had every intention of disgarding the first name!) , sadly my second account, 69th_Andy, is locked and I can't log in to fix this on the first account. Would it be at all possible to make this account the active account instead of my old one, AndrewZaytsev?

 

Any help you can give would be MUCH appreciated! Thank you!

Edited by 69th_Andy

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8 hours ago, von_Tom said:

 

Our experience today...

 

Several could spawn and 2 or 3 managed to take off.

 

I had to wait 9 or so minutes though I'm not sure why.  Others had various times between 7 and 8 minutes.  My last flight (on Tuesday) was a Steam VR problem disconnect after 3min but I have no idea if that is connected to this.  On reflection the flight before that I had to disco after landing as I had the escape key bug so you can't get to finish mission.  I cannot find anything that correlates negative points with spawning delays - maybe someone could point me in the right direction.

 

After spawning I had a message saying the Axis side was full and I was in slot 3, then after a while I got kicked.  I spawned back in twice to get the same message, and was kicked twice.  Several others had slots 8 and 9 etc.  They also got kicked

 

We ended up not flying a sortie because most of us couldn't get in the air, so we all went elsewhere.

 

It is a great server when it works, but the barriers to enjoyment seem very high.

 

von Tom

Fly for a team that has fewer players or wait your turn. It's fair

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12 hours ago, Pict said:

 

No they don't...same couldn't be said about you though. Here's the other guy's log and you will see he bailed out...at no point was he "dead" like you say. 12 second plus he sat in my gunners fire whether you like it or not :cool:

 

As you don't mention it, I take it you agree with my appraisal of your attacking technique ;)

When he is BOT PILOT on your log he is no longer flying the aircraft.  The pilot is dead.

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2 hours ago, JG51_Ogg said:

When he is BOT PILOT on your log he is no longer flying the aircraft.  The pilot is dead.

 

The pilot BAILED OUT according to the log, just before the aircraft crashed...12+ seconds after he sat in my AI gunners cone of fire. You can deny this all you like, but it's written here in his stats ⬇️

 

2094935263_bailedout.JPG.d31acb9a683289b84f6ce93a29ee90c0.JPG

 

That same stats page tells a story that has been told here all along. Even a guy with little experience can do a lot of damage in a Ju-88.

 

21 ground kills he got  before being shot down. Try this with a Pe-2 :rolleyes:

 

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On 8/23/2019 at 6:11 PM, SCG_Limbo said:

Well, you got in one 20 minute sortie on the 16th, so I'm at a loss myself.  Never had connection problems to Polish server myself and I'm across the pond.

 

Isn't TAW a German server? The mission design and scripter are polish, but its location was Germany iirc. Düsseldorf maybe? So it's not *that* far 😀👌

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Posted (edited)
On 8/23/2019 at 8:09 PM, JG51_jokkr said:

"Artificial gunners have been a controversy "forever". I was a founder of ICI (we did the game warbirds) and recall the challenge of getting game balance correct.

 

History tells us that gunners were amazingly inaccurate. Number of rounds fired against number of claims of kills (adjusted for inaccurate claims after war) tells the whole story.

 

My belief is the developers are trying to do there best but unfortunately there are flaws

 

The gunner is optimized only when the opposing fighter is locked up perfectly at the 12 oclock position. Even then then they're  not really accurate with the plane not being a stable platform and the guns not being a precise weapon when on full automatic fire.

 

If it is a plane vs gunner shootout in the 12 position, I would bet on the fighters multiple weapons vs the simple MG the gunner has. How the gunner survives more than a second or two in the unarmored rear position in this scenario is beyond me.

 

Accuracy falls off dramatically as the gunner has to shoot in deflection . Even 10-15 degrees offset from straight ahead (behind)  throws accuracy out the window. Any more than that it just doesn't happen.  Im not seeing the fall off in accuracy myself and those planes who have a broad (vs limited) traverse of guns have an unfair advantage.

 

The PE from my limited experience is amazing effective in shooting highly accurate "extremely deadly" deflection shots. It makes it "overly" effective. Some will call it a cheat. I prefer to see the allied side taking advantage of the current modeling. The PE did not display the air dominance in the actual battle as it does in the game. If there are settings available they should be turned down to bring them more back into balance.

 

bob (jokkr)

jokk in WB, AW, and AH

 

 

The problem is that the side arrows aircraft (at least Soviet aircraft) is absolutely not exposed to Minengeschoß, which in the tapes of German fighters - a fair amount.......:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12352-228-я-часть-дневников-разработчика/?do=findComment&comment=715959

More or less effective armor-piercing projectiles to the cannon MG-151-15, especially if you use it as gun pod to F-4. Macci with their machine guns 12.7 mm with explosive charges are also almost useless against shooters. The problem is once again brought to the attention of developers. Let's hope that in the nearest patches it will be corrected.

 

Taking into account the above, the level of Soviet airborne shooters should not be higher than "experienced"....level of "AS" in this situation is uber-weapons.

Said the pilots also are not killed by Minengeschoß. 

 

By the way.....it is likely that the same problem exists for Soviet High-explosive shells. need to inspect.....:hunter:

Edited by =FPS=Cutlass

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3 hours ago, =FPS=Cutlass said:

Macci with their machine guns 12.7 mm with explosive charges are also almost useless against shooters

Macci is the most dangerous aircraft for Pe2 on the first maps. Maybe the crew remains alive from high-explosive shells, but they beat off wings, tails, rudders perfectly. I think that the high-explosive impact of red weapons is exactly the same, so the parties are now in an equal position

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2 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Macci is the most dangerous aircraft for Pe2 on the first maps. Maybe the crew remains alive from high-explosive shells, but they beat off wings, tails, rudders perfectly. I think that the high-explosive impact of red weapons is exactly the same, so the parties are now in an equal position

 

With extra guns MG-151-20 - without a doubt......:hunter:

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JlHad an idea on adjusting the lives system. Wanna hear on what you think. 

 

Once you lose your 3rd life all planes are wipped except transport, 1 bomber. (Or what ever format ya'll think would be right)

 

No ban for 20 hours. 

 

At which point you have to rebuild your plane base using the normal combat mission method.

 

This would be easy to implement, and uses systems that are already in place. 

 

This has been used in other servers in the past to grear success, yes.

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33 minutes ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

Once you lose your 3rd life all planes are wipped except transport,

And after 20-30 minutes you’re back in line, flying with a bomb to an enemy airfield to die there. And after 20 - 30 minutes, you again made 3 transport missions and again fly to an enemy target with a bomb, not afraid to die ... And this can go on forever))

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7 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

And after 20-30 minutes you’re back in line, flying with a bomb to an enemy airfield to die there. And after 20 - 30 minutes, you again made 3 transport missions and again fly to an enemy target with a bomb, not afraid to die ... And this can go on forever))

Sounds like enough of a grind to slow and bore the german kamikazes. 

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29 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Woot this one was quick. How did the Germans win so quickly? 

 

New tactics and strategies? 

I think they hammered us good early on and we just never got off our back feet. I remember running some missions before the last map rolled, then by the time I looked at the map again a day or so later the Soviets had lost half their territory. Extra territory means you spawn more tank columns, which means your enemy spends more time on the defense. If you have the numbers advantage you can defend your tanks while hitting enemy defenses and tank columns while the enemy has to focus on one or the other or risk being overwhelmed and defeated in detail. 

I think this map the Axis just was able to leverage their advantages better, and the small advantage they gained at the beginning gave them momentum. 

 

37 minutes ago, =AVG77=Fenderbird said:

JlHad an idea on adjusting the lives system. Wanna hear on what you think. 

 

Once you lose your 3rd life all planes are wipped except transport, 1 bomber. (Or what ever format ya'll think would be right)

 

No ban for 20 hours. 

 

At which point you have to rebuild your plane base using the normal combat mission method.

 

This would be easy to implement, and uses systems that are already in place. 

 

This has been used in other servers in the past to grear success, yes.


I'd rather take my 20 hour ban than lose all my accumulated aircraft and have to grind a half dozen missions just to get basic aircraft back. 

A 20 hour ban just means you can go play on other servers, go outside, give your significant other a smooch. Look on the bright side!
 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Woot this one was quick. How did the Germans win so quickly? 

 

New tactics and strategies? 

 

 

Few server stops at the early stages of the map that resulted in allies losing few important airfields for nothing and many just decided to sit this one out. 

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Posted (edited)

@=LG=Kathon

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=55625&name=JG7_X-Man

 

Not sure what happened here. 

 

I shot down a guy and landed at our airfield. for some reason I don't exit the game. The finally I got kicked for inactivity.

Not sure what you can do - just reporting a bug.

 

Once you land at your airbase - no one should be able to claim a kill.

Not to mention i lost my F-4 too even though  landed successfully per the log.

Edited by JG7_X-Man

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Woot this one was quick. How did the Germans win so quickly? 

 

New tactics and strategies? 

Bombing supplies and warehouse to prevent allies to get reinforcements. it is not necessary to bomb tanks or defense until they vanishes, only to weaken then. Pounding various targets instead of one, rinse and repeat. supplies search and destroy operations.

Edited by =BLW=Tales
complete

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I can't be the only one who notices a sharp decline in moaning when blue is winning :P

Anyway, yeah. Impressive steamroll. Been away for a few days and was shocked to see the state of things. I enjoy desperate last stand situations almost as much as winning! 😄 

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15 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

If no airfields need resupply and you fly a transport to it, do you get a CM?  

I don't think so.

1 hour ago, =RainDogs=Quimbymouse said:

I can't be the only one who notices a sharp decline in moaning when blue is winning :P

Anyway, yeah. Impressive steamroll. Been away for a few days and was shocked to see the state of things. I enjoy desperate last stand situations almost as much as winning! 😄 

I wish I could have gotten on last night for the last stand. That would have been hairy!

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2 minutes ago, E69_McKinley said:

Hi.

One question, its posible my ju88 gunners dont shoot when some one are on my six and i am level low and quiet?

No advice too someone on my six.I have no video.

Sorry for my english

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=56027&name=E69_McKinley

 

 

Give orders to fire at close range or returno fire. Press ' them give orders to gunner.

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Why does not the closure of aerodromes work?
Today played 2 against 13 and all airfields were open

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9 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Why does not the closure of aerodromes work?
Today played 2 against 13 and all airfields were open

 

The other day (about a week ago) the same was happening: we were 12 against 28 and enemy frontline airfields were active.

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Halfway through the campaign I found I had sufficient material for a video. It's refreshing to fly Blue after staying Red the better part of a year, and pleasant to fly some missions with people I had become accustomed to running from frequently. It has also reinforced the opinion that the Pe-2 is the Ground Attack aircraft 'par excellence' in terms of pilot survival.

Take a ride down the rabbit hole..... the colors...... the colors......

CONTENTS:

Down the Rabbit Hole - Hippie Heaven - Pig Be Trippin' - A Vicious Engagement - A Familiar Cast of Characters and some New Faces - Why Contact Fuzes are a Bad Idea - DYATLOVO AF; Devourer of Aircraft - and as always, Lots of Dead Tanks. Custom skins by StG77_Jeeves and szelljr. 

 

NSFW

1. Profanity

2. Bikinis

3. Custom skins show full swastikas.

 

 

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