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Tactical Air War

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52 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

You just cant drop it, do you? 😄

 

 

 

 

Nah, I'm an egotistical pretend fighter pilot!

 

1: Would not be surprised if some VVS are being chicken shit.

 

2: For a guy who doesn't want to continue the convo you can't stop either. I think you and I would get on like a house on fire.    :)

 

 

Thanks for the most civil mini flame war in this forum!!! I love me a heated debate.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper
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This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

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3 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

Thanks for the most civil mini flame war in this forum!!! I love me a heated debate.

No problem :)

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16 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

All my thumbs up. I think Kathon can agree with it too. Right Kathon? 😄

Edited by =L/R=Coldman
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42 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

That's the kind of changes we need!

 

great quality post.

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Great video and more importantly respectful without adding fuel to the almost constant dumpster fire :) . 

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10 hours ago, Disarray said:

Zami, you strike me as the kind of person that would complain about a house being on fire. After you set it on fire. And not helping putting the fire out. If the number imbalance is such a big damn problem for you get in there and do your part to balance that out.

 

For my part, I haven't flown this campaign much and I'm registered Red. The reason is simple. Every time I've had the inclination to do so the teams are stacked to hell and gone and I see there being no point to it. I see people flippantly saying it is a target rich environment and all that but 50 v 10 isn't target rich, it is stupid and 50 v 11 would be just as stupid. Why the blue team would want to play in that environment is beyond me. Maybe that is the 'blue team play' I hear so much about: it is when just the blue team plays with themselves and they like it.

I registered blue this time because our group wanted to fly blue, I flew the first day and once I saw how one sided it was i haven't flown again.  Don't believe I will unless it balances out later on. 

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Great video H! Seems like  a reasonable suggestion. I'm sure Kathon will look at it favourably.

 

PS- Just next time put a few bikinis in, eh?

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The request is perfectly reasonable and very well presented (less points for the lack of bikinis), but I thought that the TAW ADN was about forcing teamwork (say counting on a friendly to distract the flak) rather than encouraging these lone attackers' strikes. 

 

Also I find funny that it's always said that the IL-2 is the unbalancing tool for the VVS while it's been proven with these very well done videos that -once more- the advantage is on the side that carries the more bombs, but this is another debate I wouldn't like to get in atm.

 

So regarding HvB request, I'd go for the replacement of some of the guns for quicker ones in order to force teamplay and cooperation rather than exploiting game engine limitations.

 

 

 

 

Edited by HR_Tofolo
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8 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

 

Constructive criticism and made in an unbiased/non-confrontational way. Very refreshing. Hope the few posters in this thread that have hijacked the discussion lately into a “red vs blue” flame war have taken notes. Bring some evidence, rational thought, and open approach to your arguments. Great vid, HvB! I think that’s a fair solution to a problem you noticed.

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13 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Of course it's pointless. Blue has a lot more guys who fly Blue and ONLY Blue. Many of these pilots will switch at Bodenplatte and I expect the stack to swing the other way just like how RAF has the stack in Cliffs. It's predictable to the point that I called this blue stack as soon as the last campaign ended.

 

With so many players being of your opinion it is a pointless conversation. It's not going to change, ever.

 

When Bodenplatte drops the stack will go RED and BLUE will still have teamwork and comms issues....... On the upside I'll be back in 109s a lot.   :)

Man, you are wrong there. I might fly from time to time VVS or RAF planes. But it's almost impossible to get any of LLvXX guys to fly all the time other than axis planes. I flew RAF/FAF once in ww2online, if you know the game, had to leave my squad, made first and only allied squad for Finns with one ground guy and we showed them how to fight / fly etc. I got so much hate for being a side switcher, backstabber etc. Some ppl still don't talk to me in our Finnish virtual pilot community (internet or LAN meetings) after that incident. That was back in 2005 (2003-2005 don't remember anymore 😄 ) I think or something... Soooo, I spoke to our LLv34 squad to maybe try Reds next TAW or something, but we will see how balancing will turn out towards the end. 

 

But for me, I will stay overall almost always Axis and fly with my squad. Even tho some times I try to even teams on our own Finnish virtual pilots server, even then staying on our TS and asking guys where they are to get some dogfights going on :) 

Oh ye, next time you see Siddy on TS, tell him that he is traitor of fatherland and that rumor is, he got shot down in Axis planes so he switched to the red.. at least what is said over TS 😂

Edited by LLv34_adexu
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A thought exercise :

 

What would interest me in flying for the opposite side (Not that I have to, as reds are always down) is if my combat missions for the side I'm flying on also counted towards the CMs for the other side (or, for example, only when the other side has fewer players. Or you could do it at 1/2 rate of the CM gain for the faction that you are flying right now, i.e. 6 CM for aircraft).

 

That means if I switch sides I won't have to "grind" up to my favourite aircraft with likely full hangar available to play with. The main motivation to suggest this as I expect people switching sides are discouraged by only being able to fly i16's, and struggling to get the migs.

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3 hours ago, LLv34_adexu said:

I spoke to our LLv34 squad to maybe try Reds next TAW or something

 

 

That would be a sight to behold :biggrin:

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29 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

That would be a sight to behold :biggrin:

Ye.. dunno if we see that day. I mean, we are oldest Finnish squad which is still operating and almost always flew axis, since 1998. But I heard sometimes there is some moments when we fly allied too. Oh, it's our 20 year anniversary!

Edited by LLv34_adexu
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13 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

 

Hi HvB,

 

nice one and well done +1

 

regards

 

Little_D

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17 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

@=LG=Kathon sorry to bother you again but do you have by any chance the statistic on how many I-16s were shot down by 109 F4? would be really interesting to see.

I always wanted to add such statistic on the main page but as always lack of time, I haven't played this campaign yet 

 

Here are stats for all planes from map #2

ATTACKER TARGET SHOT_DOWN
Bf 109 E-7 I-16 type 24 87
Bf 109 E-7 Il-2 mod.1941 32
Bf 109 E-7 MiG-3 ser.24 15
Bf 109 E-7 P-40E-1 39
Bf 109 E-7 Pe-2 ser.35 37
Bf 109 F-2 I-16 type 24 36
Bf 109 F-2 Il-2 mod.1941 16
Bf 109 F-2 MiG-3 ser.24 14
Bf 109 F-2 P-40E-1 17
Bf 109 F-2 Pe-2 ser.35 20
Bf 109 F-4 I-16 type 24 24
Bf 109 F-4 Il-2 mod.1941 12
Bf 109 F-4 MiG-3 ser.24 9
Bf 109 F-4 P-40E-1 9
Bf 109 F-4 Pe-2 ser.35 11
Bf 110 E-2 I-16 type 24 15
Bf 110 E-2 Il-2 mod.1941 8
Bf 110 E-2 MiG-3 ser.24 3
Bf 110 E-2 P-40E-1 3
Bf 110 E-2 Pe-2 ser.35 9
He 111 H-6 I-16 type 24 3
He 111 H-6 MiG-3 ser.24 2
He 111 H-6 P-40E-1 3
He 111 H-6 Pe-2 ser.35 2
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 E-7 88
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 F-2 26
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 F-4 7
I-16 type 24 Bf 110 E-2 20
I-16 type 24 He 111 H-6 6
I-16 type 24 Ju 87 D-3 13
I-16 type 24 Ju 88 A-4 6
I-16 type 24 MC.202 ser.VIII 16
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 E-7 4
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 F-2 3
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 F-4 1
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 110 E-2 3
Il-2 mod.1941 Ju 87 D-3 3
Il-2 mod.1941 MC.202 ser.VIII 2
Ju 87 D-3 MiG-3 ser.24 2
Ju 87 D-3 P-40E-1 1
Ju 88 A-4 I-16 type 24 2
Ju 88 A-4 MiG-3 ser.24 4
Ju 88 A-4 P-40E-1 4
Ju 88 A-4 Pe-2 ser.35 3
MC.202 ser.VIII I-16 type 24 9
MC.202 ser.VIII Il-2 mod.1941 4
MC.202 ser.VIII MiG-3 ser.24 1
MC.202 ser.VIII P-40E-1 8
MC.202 ser.VIII Pe-2 ser.35 11
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 E-7 61
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 F-2 20
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 F-4 12
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 110 E-2 20
MiG-3 ser.24 He 111 H-6 5
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 52 3mg4e 1
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 87 D-3 6
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 88 A-4 9
MiG-3 ser.24 MC.202 ser.VIII 8
P-40E-1 Bf 109 E-7 32
P-40E-1 Bf 109 F-2 5
P-40E-1 Bf 109 F-4 2
P-40E-1 Bf 110 E-2 11
P-40E-1 He 111 H-6 8
P-40E-1 Ju 87 D-3 5
P-40E-1 Ju 88 A-4 11
P-40E-1 MC.202 ser.VIII 5
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 E-7 11
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 F-2 4
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 F-4 4
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 110 E-2 2
Pe-2 ser.35 He 111 H-6 2
Pe-2 ser.35 Ju 88 A-4 1
Pe-2 ser.35 MC.202 ser.VIII 5
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Looking at the numbers and doing some calculations, it looks like that the numerical advantage is by far the most important factor. 

 

On Map#2 both teams shot down nearly equal numbers of planes. The F4 claimed 16% of the german fighter kills while the MiG3 claimed 35% of the fighter kills.

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16 hours ago, =L/R=Coldman said:

All my thumbs up. I think Kathon can agree with it too. Right Kathon? 😄

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?

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24 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?

 

 

As long as AA has bikinis... 

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We should make a truce and stop the war campaign until bikinis shows up :)

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1 hour ago, =LG=Kathon said:

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

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11 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

 

 

It wont really bother reds that much as AAA leashing is usually standard practice for even randoms. Only thing it will do really is that more VVS will ask each other to leash AA, it happens already pretty often and is standard order of the day.

 

Seeing that i can usually take out all AAA from column with single IL2 if left alone for long enough time, and much faster and reliably if there is someone flying wild weasel, the AAA clearing is never an issue for VVS. 

 

I remember, few TAW's ago, on the last map, some random Russians in TS teamed up, and went and literally cleared all AAA from airfield, and took it down to 100% damage in one run.

Fun was had with returning Axis planes that did not know what was going on.  

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Hi!

I wonder why I was kicked all of a sudden from mission last night.

I was flying in Rotte to Target, the "Rottenflieger" was kicked as well. Later on it was immpossible to reconnect again.

Any ideas?

 

yours

v.Greiff

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I think AA must be like as is.

Rotating AAA and Force team work maybe is a good idea.

thx

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

We have found this out a few times . The dragging of AAA.!

The Sacrificial lamb or as we say taking one for the team .

Oh and can we  please stop the shoulder shooting its very off putting .🐖 I know no one can see anything until some one pulls the trigger. !!!

Then a swarm of player Bees come from nowhere to join in on the fun . lol . 

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Con said:

We have found this out a few times . The dragging of AAA.!

The Sacrificial lamb or as we say taking one for the team .

 

Dragging AA isn't very dangerous if you keep maneuvering a bit. I think this was discussed/explained a couple of pages back

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On 6/28/2018 at 1:52 PM, =L/R=Coldman said:

And this is short clip from that Mission from my perspective. Enjoy

 

That's a Great video . But didnt  Fallschirmjager jump head first ...lol......... love it 

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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21 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

Dragging AA isn't very dangerous if you keep maneuvering a bit. I think this was discussed/explained a couple of pages back

Dont fly straight lines because AI cant predict non linear trajectories 

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Looking at the server it has now - in 12 hours - gone from an even split of half-half of the map to total map domination by blue, and looking at the stats from the missions the player numbers aren't in serious blame. Although red has been outnumbered all night it hasn't been by an insane margin.

 

What does seem to be at fault is the way tank columns work.

 

For four missions in a row (68-71) the blues had two tank columns attacking simultaneously. During mission 72 they had one column, and now during 73 they are back to two. Simply put there's no chance in hell for the reds to be even CLOSE to being able to stop the attack. They can't even pretend. One tank column is difficult but doable when outnumbered 2:1, but two tank columns are impossible. They're almost impossible even with 1:1 numbers.

 

If tank columns never ever halt, not even after taking airfields/cities then there's almost no point in even trying to attack them. No amount of tank bombing will ever be enough. The transition from mission 68-71 is a good example: During mission #68 one of the two blue tank columns are attacking Dyatlovo. That mission they succeed in taking in it, but already in mission #69 there's a new tank column attacking Brykovo. That tank column was however promptly beaten (close to Brykovo and no blue AF close enough to stop it), but in mission #70 there's a brand spanking new tank column going on Brykovo again!

 

Meanwhile during #68 a blue tank column is heading for Solodilovo. During #69 it's so closed that the AF is locked down. In mission #70 the Solodilovo is taken, and what happens...? The same mission a new blue tank column spawns just outside of Nesterovo, and in mission #71 Nesterovo is locked down. By some sheer magical intervention by Stalin's moustache and the ghost of Lenin the tank column is destroyed in mission #72, but then... then comes #73! Brand new column again!

 

Oh, and what happened further south during that magical intervention? Red tanks attacking Dyatlovo during mission #72 were destroyed, and blue tanks finally took Brykovo (those dudes that spawned during mission #70), and immediately after the tanks failed to take the locked-down Dyatlovo a new blue tank column spawns between Dyatlovo and Klin.

 

 

There simply is no breathing room during tank attacks. No breathing room whatsoever. They are coming so often and so rapidly that it's basically impossible to stop them. This effect has been seen earlier campaigns too, but I've never seen it happen to this degree before. Maybe nothing in the code has changed and it's pure randomness that it has become this extreme this time, but it's worth giving a look.

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I found this interesting German paratrooper training film.

Alas, no audio or bikinis.

 

 

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I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

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nice today experience,

 

i was  landing, the wheels of my pe2 at 50cm over the ground , speed ok, no ennemy fighter, all clear and..  il2.exe crashes

 

finally : ground streak lost and back to sergant 0/100 xp, hard rules but it is the rule :(

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Are stats working if captured ..??  or bail . 

30 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

Are you saying to kill paras while in chutes ..... not nice ....lol 

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Con said:

Are you saying to kill paras while in chutes ..... not nice ....lol 

 

Time to heat up the good old chute-killing debate again 🧐

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34 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

Yes you can kill them if you want not sure if on the ground  (few sec after they dissapear) sometimes if paratrooper fall to the trees dies and not count as landed.

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8 hours ago, von_Greiff said:

Hi!

I wonder why I was kicked all of a sudden from mission last night.

I was flying in Rotte to Target, the "Rottenflieger" was kicked as well. Later on it was immpossible to reconnect again.

Any ideas?

 

yours

v.Greiff

Probably LG guys were coming on server and the kick fest stars randomly. Leader of LLv24 got kicked yday too, just during attack organisation. But it’s their server and organisation, understandable doing that, as server is full prime time. 

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