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Tactical Air War

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52 minutes ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

 

And?  the fact that the whole BoX series MP has no sort of team balancing is why we all continue to gather in a circle and aim for the cracker bud.

You would like team balacing in taw? lmao. What's the point of creating a pilot and trying to be online to help your team win? Kinda defeats the purpose. 

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13 minutes ago, Man-Yac said:

You would like team balacing in taw? lmao. What's the point of creating a pilot and trying to be online to help your team win? Kinda defeats the purpose. 

winning.thumb.JPG.d91a225074a69aa4db5b8db3dbdbbdc2.JPG

 

Down 16% since kuban released?  Winning, mate, winning.

Edited by woodrowwilson_pr

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6 minutes ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

winning.thumb.JPG.d91a225074a69aa4db5b8db3dbdbbdc2.JPG

 

Down 16% since kuban released?  Winning, mate, winning.

You realise that the player gain from march and april are from the kuban release hype yes? Its not team balacing that affect the peak players stats, its new planes, maps and game modes.

 

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12 minutes ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

 

 

Down 16% since kuban released?  Winning, mate, winning.

 

Are those just the Steam stats? 

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2 hours ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

 

And?  the fact that the whole BoX series MP has no sort of team balancing is why we all continue to gather in a circle and aim for the cracker bud.

And? 

Posting photos of an instant in time where there happens to be a certain number of players on has no point and purpose. Much like this discussion 

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I think, we can make the radio beacon as a target, lol, it will be funny

Radio beacon will be an important strategic target:biggrin:

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3 hours ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

Down 16% since kuban released?  Winning, mate, winning.

Around 90% of the player base is single player. 

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[edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

See my post below

 

Haash

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Guys...

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

It has been said hundred of times already, if you have proof of such thing just go ahead and send a PM with it to the devs (Blacksix or Han) and if you want to server administration.

 

Besides that, some people seems to forget there are rules in this forums. Next time, I will be the "bad" guy, enough is enough.

 

Haash

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11 hours ago, woodrowwilson_pr said:

winning.thumb.JPG.d91a225074a69aa4db5b8db3dbdbbdc2.JPG

 

Down 16% since kuban released?  Winning, mate, winning.

 

 

These are only steam stats, so a huge segment is not represented(including me) .  Regardless, since BoX is the only show in town if you want a modern multiplayer WW2 CFS(I won't count the DCS dogfight techdemo experience) any loss in active players is unlikely to be reflected in the MP playerbase but rather the huge SP one.

 

Wilson, you've been around like two weeks, relax.  This campaign has had the best balance out of any TAW campaign I've flown in.  There will always be blips where the balance goes one way or the other, but that's the nature of timezones and player squads.  Being at the end of a map that your side has LOST does not help motivate your teammates to fly either, but rather wait for the next one.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
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I remember earlier TAW campaigns when it wasn’t uncommon outside of EU and RU time zones to find the server completely deserted. I’d be hitting targets pretty much completely alone for the greater part of a map or two. Now there’s always a large enough group on at all times. Same with a couple other servers. Steam stats are highly deceiving (as all stats), I for one purchase directly from 1c and use the launcher. I’d say TAW and MP in BoX is healthier than its ever been. 

 

By the way, pretty sure every post I’ve read of Wilson’s has been at least mildly trolling, so probably isn’t best to really engage about this or anything else he brings up. But, I’ve got a little time to kill and I wanted to point out how great the TAW community has become!

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I was flying in the A20B beside LR Coldman. Video - - -

 

 

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On 10.05.2018 at 7:49 PM, SYN_Haashashin said:

It has been said hundred of times already, if you have proof of such thing just go ahead and send a PM with it to the devs (Blacksix or Han) and if you want to server administration.

 

Besides that, some people seems to forget there are rules in this forums. Next time, I will be the "bad" guy, enough is enough.

 

Haash

 

TY for your answer.

...Edited....

Edited by Norz

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Well it seems another map as gone the way we all thought. I think there will also ways be an issue of unbalance as long as TAW is ran on a dogfight server server. There is nothing stopping people joining an flying when then please. If it were ran on a Co-Op style server things would be different in the sense of more balance. 8 v 8 or whatever were going up against each other every time.

 

As to the main reason why BLUE lost 90% of the TAW, we have to admit that the IL-2, Pe-2 and now the A-20 have a higher survivability ratio and carry more ordnance than say a Ju-87 and Me-110 (the primary ground attack aircraft of the BLUE side). I am not bringing the He-111 and Ju-52 and that other German ground aircraft into the conversation because they are typically not used that much (I didn't say at all) for attacking tanks, supply convoys and ground positions which really determines the out come of the map. The crux of my argument is the inherent requirements to win a TAW map are multiple successful ground attack sorties, which does not favor the BLUE SIDE.

 

One does not need an MBA or a degree from a War College (...which I don't have LOL) to figure out that VVS ground aircraft are better designed to take out a larger number of tactical targets and sustain more damage and  than Luftwaffe ground attack aircraft in a sortie (combat mission of an individual aircraft).

 

I have said this before: To have a virtual war that is so highly weighted on "taking out ground targets" and to have one side with better equipment to fulfill this role (which is indeed historically true) is an automatic win for that side.

 

I am not saying there is anything wrong with this - I am just pointing out the obvious that in the current configuration of TAW, I don't see how the BLUE side could ever win more than a few maps given the same number of ground targets to destroy as the RED side.

 

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55 minutes ago, JG7_X_Man said:

Well it seems another map as gone the way we all thought. I think there will also ways be an issue of unbalance as long as TAW is ran on a dogfight server server. There is nothing stopping people joining an flying when then please. If it were ran on a Co-Op style server things would be different in the sense of more balance. 8 v 8 or whatever were going up against each other every time.

 

As to the main reason why BLUE lost 90% of the TAW, we have to admit that the IL-2, Pe-2 and now the A-20 have a higher survivability ratio and carry more ordnance than say a Ju-87 and Me-110 (the primary ground attack aircraft of the BLUE side). I am not bringing the He-111 and Ju-52 and that other German ground aircraft into the conversation because they are typically not used that much (I didn't say at all) for attacking tanks, supply convoys and ground positions which really determines the out come of the map. The crux of my argument is the inherent requirements to win a TAW map are multiple successful ground attack sorties, which does not favor the BLUE SIDE.

 

One does not need an MBA or a degree from a War College (...which I don't have LOL) to figure out that VVS ground aircraft are better designed to take out a larger number of tactical targets and sustain more damage and  than Luftwaffe ground attack aircraft in a sortie (combat mission of an individual aircraft).

 

I have said this before: To have a virtual war that is so highly weighted on "taking out ground targets" and to have one side with better equipment to fulfill this role (which is indeed historically true) is an automatic win for that side.

 

I am not saying there is anything wrong with this - I am just pointing out the obvious that in the current configuration of TAW, I don't see how the BLUE side could ever win more than a few maps given the same number of ground targets to destroy as the RED side.

 

Always the machine and never the pilot.... 

 

I can sum up the German loss each map by a brief example:

Last night was fairly even in numbers, but the bomber/fighter ratio was as follows:  red 8/2, blue 3/8. 

 

You can't win a campaign if you're all in fighters....  

 

Of course this may not a trend in other timezones, but it's pretty regular in US timezones.

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X_Man, if the Stuka and the 110 are not getting the job done why do people stick to them? Especially when the Ju-88 is available with a large payload of bombs suited to killing a bunch of vics all strung out on a road? Or the HS-129, while not the most exciting plane around it can be equipped with a wide range of tank and truck killing things. Add to that the ratios mentioned above it seems to me that the game isn't what needs changing, it is the way it is being played by one side. The objective is known to both sides, the trick seems to be getting people to act on it.

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3 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

Always the machine and never the pilot.... 

 

I can sum up the German loss each map by a brief example:

Last night was fairly even in numbers, but the bomber/fighter ratio was as follows:  red 8/2, blue 3/8. 

 

You can't win a campaign if you're all in fighters....  

 

Of course this may not a trend in other timezones, but it's pretty regular in US timezones.

 

You're preaching to the choir there. Everyone that cares, knows this already. And all the little Hartmanns at 10k that don't yet know, won't care.

It's the same for every server with any ground objectives :)

(and yes I say this as someone who hasn't flown TAW this season)

Edited by wellenbrecher
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5 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

Well it seems another map as gone the way we all thought. I think there will also ways be an issue of unbalance as long as TAW is ran on a dogfight server server. There is nothing stopping people joining an flying when then please. If it were ran on a Co-Op style server things would be different in the sense of more balance. 8 v 8 or whatever were going up against each other every time.

 

As to the main reason why BLUE lost 90% of the TAW, we have to admit that the IL-2, Pe-2 and now the A-20 have a higher survivability ratio and carry more ordnance than say a Ju-87 and Me-110 (the primary ground attack aircraft of the BLUE side). I am not bringing the He-111 and Ju-52 and that other German ground aircraft into the conversation because they are typically not used that much (I didn't say at all) for attacking tanks, supply convoys and ground positions which really determines the out come of the map. The crux of my argument is the inherent requirements to win a TAW map are multiple successful ground attack sorties, which does not favor the BLUE SIDE.

 

One does not need an MBA or a degree from a War College (...which I don't have LOL) to figure out that VVS ground aircraft are better designed to take out a larger number of tactical targets and sustain more damage and  than Luftwaffe ground attack aircraft in a sortie (combat mission of an individual aircraft).

 

I have said this before: To have a virtual war that is so highly weighted on "taking out ground targets" and to have one side with better equipment to fulfill this role (which is indeed historically true) is an automatic win for that side.

 

I am not saying there is anything wrong with this - I am just pointing out the obvious that in the current configuration of TAW, I don't see how the BLUE side could ever win more than a few maps given the same number of ground targets to destroy as the RED side.

 

 

 

The Axis side have all the tools they need to succeed, but as long as 90% of the team are farting around in 109s/190s accomplishing nothing, they will lose.  Look in the mirror(or at your stats) before you make these excuses.

 

7th Guards will fly Axis next campaign, and I look forward to carving our place on the tank-killer squad list with Ju-87s and Hs-129s.

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1 minute ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

The Axis side have all the tools they need to succeed, but as long as 90% of the team are farting around in 109s/190s accomplishing nothing, they will lose.  Look in the mirror(or at your stats) before you make these excuses.

 

7th Guards will fly Axis next campaign, and I look forward to carving our place on the tank-killer squad list with Ju-87s and Hs-129s.

I look forward to splattering your group all over the countryside :P

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3 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

Always the machine and never the pilot.... 

 

I can sum up the German loss each map by a brief example:

Last night was fairly even in numbers, but the bomber/fighter ratio was as follows:  red 8/2, blue 3/8. 

 

You can't win a campaign if you're all in fighters....  

 

Of course this may not a trend in other timezones, but it's pretty regular in US timezones.

 

Fair point - However, you have just proved the 1st part of my hypotheses - 8 fighters are not enough to stop 8 bombers. This goes to show mission survivability of VVS bombers. The concept I think you are referring to the age old question - Offense vs Defense. So for the group flying that night to choose Defense (i.e stop bombers) was a sound one.

Edited by JG7_X_Man

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8 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

I look forward to splattering your group all over the countryside :P

 

 

It'll be fun.

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51 minutes ago, Disarray said:

X_Man, if the Stuka and the 110 are not getting the job done why do people stick to them? Especially when the Ju-88 is available with a large payload of bombs suited to killing a bunch of vics all strung out on a road? Or the HS-129, while not the most exciting plane around it can be equipped with a wide range of tank and truck killing things. Add to that the ratios mentioned above it seems to me that the game isn't what needs changing, it is the way it is being played by one side. The objective is known to both sides, the trick seems to be getting people to act on it.

 

People - This is what I call thought! @Disarray read what I wrote and came up with a brilliant assessment!  I didn't call the Hs-129 by name - but that is clearly one of the problems, the BLUE side mud movers don't find the Hs-129 sexy. It doesn't have the acclaim/mystic of the Stuka and the Me-110 is kind of a love or hate it type aircraft. The Hs-129 on the other hand didn't make the history books so it sits under utilized.

 

So to Disarray's point - if we (Blue team) could move away from the Ju-87 and Me-110 and towards the Hs-129 and Ju-88 - we could gain some ground in the ground attack arena.

 

For the record, I don't think TAW needs to be changed - I think we are a team (BLUE) need to find away to be more competitive!

 

Also - locking TAW TS Channels isn't one of the ways win either - I hope our donations are not going towards the upkeep of that server - if it is, we all should have access to ALL TS channels on the side we are flying on. That's not in the right spirit to have other people fund someone else's sense of eliteness!

Edited by JG7_X_Man

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On 11.05.2018 at 9:21 AM, =L/R=Coldman said:

Please Ban this guy. Killed me in A20 over our airfield when i was landing. http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=IV./JG5_plane10 

 

 

On 11.05.2018 at 10:06 PM, JG700_Rammjager said:

Another freindly kill:

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=62801&name=JG700_Rammjager

 

I know that we are shooting on him in a few, but killing one of our is not nice.

 

Ramm.

Grounded for 3 days

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7 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

The Axis side have all the tools they need to succeed, but as long as 90% of the team are farting around in 109s/190s accomplishing nothing, they will lose.  Look in the mirror(or at your stats) before you make these excuses.

 

7th Guards will fly Axis next campaign, and I look forward to carving our place on the tank-killer squad list with Ju-87s and Hs-129s.


Now that I've experienced both sides...you'll be in for a rude awakening mate. But I welcome more squads flying for the other side at least one campaign. :) We'll also be going back to blue. 

 

6 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

So to Disarray's point - if we (Blue team) could move away from the Ju-87 and Me-110 and towards the Hs-129 and Ju-88 - we could gain some ground in the ground attack arena.

 


The Hs-129 is hot garbage in TAW (and I absolutely love the thing). But everything that it can do in TAW even the 110E can do better. The only advantage is the 103 cannon, and even then a 37mm 87 is better at killing tanks and at least has a rear gunner. And by that point blue gets the 110G2 which is a monster. Blue doesn't lose because too many 'noobs' fly stukas and other inferior planes. It's more complicated - but basically boils down to average life span/effectiveness of tank columns. 

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9 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

 

People - This is what I call thought! @Disarray read what I wrote and came up with a brilliant assessment!  I didn't call the Hs-129 by name - but that is clearly one of the problems, the BLUE side mud movers don't find the Hs-129 sexy. It doesn't have the acclaim/mystic of the Stuka and the Me-110 is kind of a love or hate it type aircraft. The Hs-129 on the other hand didn't make the history books so it sits under utilized.

 

So to Disarray's point - if we (Blue team) could move away from the Ju-87 and Me-110 and towards the Hs-129 and Ju-88 - we could gain some ground in the ground attack arena.

 

For the record, I don't think TAW needs to be changed - I think we are a team (BLUE) need to find away to be more competitive!

 

Also - locking TAW TS Channels isn't one of the ways win either - I hope our donations are not going towards the upkeep of that server - if it is, we all should have access to ALL TS channels on the side we are flying on. That's not in the right spirit to have other people fund someone else's sense of eliteness!

 

Within current campaign I was less on duty and had a lot of time to fly and from what i've seen i must say that the blue side is flying mostly (not all of course) uncoordinated/unorganized.

The reds on the other hand are focusing the objectives, coordinating trough chat and Ts and always seem to gather the people to strike the critical objectives in numbers.

 

Anyway look up the Sherrif last videos, even he was complaining that although many people ware taking off with him, he couldnt bring more than 1-2 people with him to the objectives, when the reds on the other hand were quite good coordinated while striking.

 

For this campaign some squadrons changed to red due to new planes, which left less people who fly coordinated and care about objectives on blue side than usual. During previous campaigns blues always managed to push the frontline east and now its the first campaign that I remeber when the reds each time win the maps by capturing the territory and not by attrition and the only map won by blue side was by red planes attrition.

 

The key to win for blue side is :

first to fly more coordinated

second to focus the objectives (which are not only tank columns, but also airfields which with their suprem bomb loads blue side can close more easily then red side, and also destroy the parked planes which now count to the totall planes number  - see the map that blue side won by attrition...)

 

Anyway as someone above said - blue side has all the superb tools to win, just needs to play to their strenghts and what is most important, must fly more coordinated with each other 

 

 

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In the TAW i cant fly from two days. My ping 40, I have good conection but after on the map I go for Fly (Start Button) and in the few seconds I see this message out of server #10009: Game server connection lost. :(

DSC_0614.jpg

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Here is the Funny thing about TAW: Even when there are no Germans around at all still most Russians will fly a Fighter without Bombs. 

Il-2 Fighter Pilots are basically like Modern Art. Absolutely Useless and most of the time just make me very angry. 

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6 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

 

 

Anyway look up the Sherrif last videos, even he was complaining that although many people ware taking off with him, he couldnt bring more than 1-2 people with him to the objectives, when the reds on the other hand were quite good coordinated while striking.

 

 

 


Yes. Those days were dark. But there are a few Squadrons who communicate quite good. Like JG4 for example. we often fly cover when they attack tanks or defenses and such. The blues just dont have the big groups and are more splintered up. In the EU afternoons and night its actually fine.
Hydra, JG4 and other squadrons just type a few messages and we are doing ur stuff. Often capturing one or two airfields or at least hold the front line where it is. Damaging airfields, destroying tank columns.
Like it should be. But often when I get up in the morning the blues lost 3-4 airfields. But thats how TAW works. I would like to see more guys on the TAW discord in the blue group. There the teams can discuss more long term strategies. Since the the chat is saved and readable even if you weren't online. So my American and Asian friends can read what was happening over my afternoon. Often we damaged airfields quite good. To like 50%+ in  a few sorties. But nobody picked up on that. Nobody flew the Ju-52 missions to get that airfield captured or flew follow up missions.
I would like to setup more concerted lvl bombing campaigns against red Frontlinie airfields. But so far that idea brought only a handful of participants. 

You know, everybody and me is complaining at times about lacking teamwork. And that is often valid. But sometimes I just step back for a bit and take a look what TAW really is. its just a chaotic mess with over 2000 participants. Many with skill and a lot without. And I think as long as we have fun, I think the main goal of TAW is achieved.

if just everybody would communicate over the simple in game chat what they are doing, what they did and what they plan to do next, 90% of the immediate teamwork problems would be solved. You know, how many tanks they destroyed, which defense they hit, which part of an airfield they destroyed, the number of fighters they spotted in an tank raid. And so on.

The aicraft the reds have favours the "direct" approach just a bit more. They can fly in, generate an area of air superiority below 3k and can stay there as long as they don't get pushed away in a coordinated counter attack. The problem is: that needs skill and teamwork. Its not enough that two 109s just dive in and shoot one or two down. It needs a fighter sweep which binds all the red fighters before the ground attackers can be beaten. And then its easy. But it is hard to get there. The red fighters are build for those tactics. The german fighters only when flown skilfully. But then they mop up the reds. So the reason the blues fail are like always:
- The warfare on TAW favours Aircraft of the reds a bit
- to avoid that kind of battles the blues would have to change their tactics to a indirect approach.(lvl bombing imho)
- Player skill on blue a bit lower(it got much better i might add)
- Player numbers over my night time are in favor of the reds:
image.thumb.png.0dd24c57880026a82e1247cc2b3dd2ec.png

- generally lack of communications.

When you fly red you see many guys who behave similar to the clueless blue players, but that can be compensated more easily.

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Well, the Squads now have their own Segregated Channels on TS, which makes the TAW TS mostly pointless because apart from JG4, STG2 and ZG15 all the other Channels are Polish or Russian. 

Sometimes there is one English Speaker there, but most of the time no. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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13 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, the Squads now have their own Segregated Channels on TS, which makes the TAW TS mostly pointless because apart from JG4, STG2 and ZG15 all the other Channels are Polish or Russian. 

Sometimes there is one English Speaker there, but most of the time no. 


I wouldn't mind that. I personally have a hard time focusing as soon as there are more than 4-5 people in one channel. 

Edited by DerSheriff

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Key to blue win is to levelbomb more red airfields and conquer them by paras on next missions.

But there is so few bomber-pilots and more few that own Ju52 and more few that want to fly it..

 

And so few that fly coordinated on TS

 

-Veccu-

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7 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:


I wouldn't mind that. I personally have a hard time focusing as soon as there are more than 4-5 people in one channel. 

Well, with Bombers and Attackers 8 to 10 is still reasonable. 

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Next war =KK= group will fly for blue team!

As we always said befor there are a lot of Hartman’s on blue side! You should have more team work and do not think about ur own streak. Think about team purpose.

Before every flight red team coordinate there strike and tactical targets for the mission and do only this work.

When we are attacking blue targets now we usually see contrails over it, it’s really stupid to defend targets on 7k. If you can’t fly low then go and defend your level bombers. It’s much more effective then earning streaks over targets by catching single fighters.

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On the topic of channels and squad channels on ts..

I really struggle when we are more than 3 on a channel, radio communication requires a lot of skill when there is more than 3 people talking. Even when I fly with my wingman and I need to  focus when bouncing someone I tell him nicely to keep quiet, and it goes both ways. What would be great is a server with whisper chat, so I can fly in a pair with my wingman and be on comms with him ( we talk a shit lot btw), but be able to whipser to other squadrons important information (such as ennemy positions, coordinated strikes, CAP, distress calls, etc..).

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Well, if you are on Comms AND ACTUALLY FLY TOGETHER, IN A COORDINATED MANNER there is not much talking and if you have a Flight Leader a simple shout of "RADIO DISCIPLINE PLEASE" will normally get you the needed Attention. And then you can fly even in large Groups of almost 20. 

 

Of course we talk Politics, Games, Banter and Sports or whatever but still we manage in large Groups. 

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