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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)

Update: Campaign starts on Sunday European morning. 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

First of all, thanks for the upcoming edition.

 

I would like to remark two things that perhaps should be looked at:

 

First is the hangar capacity:

 

I think you get the idea.

 

And second is the air capturing stuff. IMHO the blue ability to air-capture should be locked until both sides have  the same features.

Please take into account that Blues have Ju-87 2/2 and Ju-52 1/1 on most of the maps but they aren't used very frequently. Besides every new campaign is a small test of the plane set, we try to find the balance not only on quantity but also on quality. The idea of lines of planes is still open but it's not easy task to do. Maybe in the future.

 

Reds have IL-2 which destroys tank convoys in the blink of the eye. There is no such aircraft on the Blue side.  Ju-52 is a collector plane, not everyone has it. It takes a lot of time to first destroy the airfield and then to fly Ju-52 with paratroopers. 

 

Edited by =LG=Kathon
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Thx Kathon! 

Yeah, he's right, the Ju52 is a rare sight and some planes are largely obsolete anyway, it just gives more "choice". On a personal note, I'd love to see the Po-2 released.. 🤔

 

Regarding the aircraft table: looks good, and I'm curious about lines - maybe next campaign? Rgd the quickly obsolete StuKa: If, on map #3 and onwards, you could unlock the 1800kg bomb for the StuKa Ju-87, it may be able to compete better or actually be useful. 

 

It will still be slow as hell, fragile, easy to intercept and still outclassed by the IL-2 in destroying tanks and other things. 

 

But it will have at least some (!) teeth against ground, if it can bring in that big Jerry bomb against ships or buildings. It'll have a purpose later on. And the sirens indicate a bad boy diving in. 

 

P.S. Not for the other German planes though, they are too fast and don't share the StuKa's weaknesses. 🤗

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

Update: Campaign starts on Sunday European morning. 

 

 

 

Please take into account that Blues have Ju-87 2/2 and Ju-52 1/1 on most of the maps but they aren't used very frequently. Besides every new campaign is a small test of the plane set, we try to find the balance not only on quantity but also on quality. The idea of lines of planes is still open but it's not easy task to do. Maybe in the future.

 

Reds have IL-2 which destroys tank convoys in the blink of the eye. There is no such aircraft on the Blue side.  Ju-52 is a collector plane, not everyone has it. It takes a lot of time to first destroy the airfield and then to fly Ju-52 with paratroopers. 

 

 

Well the Stukas are stubborn planes and can still carry a good payload (and in the past editions had one of the deadliest gunners in the game) and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft in a single flight or capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

Not to mention that this campaing will have a clear pilot number unbalance in favor of the blues, at the moment the numbers are 2:1.

 

Anyway, it's your work and I think most red players will, as always, fight until the last man regardless of the conditions. 

 

 

Edited by HR_Tofolo
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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, HR_Tofolo said:

...and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft i.....

 

I will ask again. How many cargo missions did you finish with Ju52?

 

 

 

=LG=Kathon,

 

can you check the planeset ?

 

2nd map was all the time only with e7, f2, mc202. 109F4 should be not allowed there.

Edited by Norz
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I agree, the plane set needs to change!

 

It was probably changed because of the addition of Kuban airplanes but i'd rather have another map than this. As a makeshift solution i would rather play a map twice than this.

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Totally agree with Tofo.

 

2 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Then I'll ask you: how many AF were captured by ju52s last campaign ? I doubt it makes much of a difference otherwise we would already see it on the pasts campaigns yet red still won most of the maps (all but one on the last TAW, lol).

Edited by Willy__

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Hello LG boys.

Thank you for another edition of TAW.

If you really want a balance fight you don´t need to put gunpods on machis on firts map or in the second map blues can use the F4.

Teamwork is the key to win, but please keep the balance on both sides.

 

Regards

Necathor

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Norz said:

 

I will ask again. How many cargo missions did you finish with Ju52?

 

 

 

 

I guess none since the red team does not have that possibility

 

In my opinion there are a couple of unfair things in the planeset quite evident. In the first place I do not see very right that the red team has to wait for the fourth map to have a lagg3 with cannons, while the blue one has the F4 already in the second one. and secondly, on the last maps, people who can not yet enjoy the Kuban map can only fly lagg3 and yak 1b on the map seven and only yak 1b on the last map and can only have one. There is not even the possibility of flying the collection aircraft like La5 or P40

Edited by HR_Eldamar

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:

 

I guess none since the red team does not have that possibility

 

 

Easy arithmetics

 

Usual cargo mission: 10..12 minutes (Ju88, He 111). (Time to start and take off Ju88, He111 about 2 minutes + time to fly, about 7..9 minutes or less)

 

Time to start and take off Ju52: 5 min

Time to fly usual cargo mission 1.5 x Time for Ju88, He111.

 

There are no reasons to fly with the Ju52 at all. But for sure we have some fans that do it..from time to time. You can finish almost 2 cargo missions with Ju88, He111 instead fly only one with Ju52.

 

You will get 2 CM instead of only 1 CM. and for sure 2x3%..4% is almost the same as 7% cargo with Ju52.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/manual.php

 

You may also resupply friendly airfields by transport airplanes. Transport planes are: Ju 52/3m with cargo, also Pe-2, He-111, Ju-88 with 100% fuel and no bombs and rockets. Ju-52 with cargo resupply airfield by about 7%, others by about 4%. You must takeoff from an airfield damaged less than 40% and successfully land on an airfield damaged more than 0%. If you successful in transport then you get  a Combat Mission.

 

 

 

Edited by Norz

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Regarding the aircraft table: looks good, and I'm curious about lines - maybe next campaign? Rgd the quickly obsolete StuKa: If, on map #3 and onwards, you could unlock the 1800kg bomb for the StuKa Ju-87, it may be able to compete better or actually be useful. 

 

It will still be slow as hell, fragile, easy to intercept and still outclassed by the IL-2 in destroying tanks and other things. 

 

But it will have at least some (!) teeth against ground, if it can bring in that big Jerry bomb against ships or buildings. It'll have a purpose later on. And the sirens indicate a bad boy diving in. 

 

P.S. Not for the other German planes though, they are too fast and don't share the StuKa's weaknesses. 🤗


An 1,800kg bomb will make no difference in a Stuka's "punch" against tank columns. It was extremely rare and serves no purpose in TAW. The problem is not the payload of Axis planes. It's the way columns for each side are built. 

 

4 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

 

Well the Stukas are stubborn planes and can still carry a good payload (and in the past editions had one of the deadliest gunners in the game) and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft in a single flight or capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

Not to mention that this campaing will have a clear pilot number unbalance in favor of the blues, at the moment the numbers are 2:1.

 

Anyway, it's your work and I think most red players will, as always, fight until the last man regardless of the conditions. 

 


Stukas are far less 'stubborn' than an IL-2 so there's no advantage for blue there ;) . And as Norz mentioned above, the Ju-52 can supply more, but it takes 2x as much time to complete the same mission in a He-111/Ju-88 transport, and as I previously said, you can supply AF the same in two missions with the faster plane AND get two combat missions instead of one. So in reality the Ju-52 as an AF resupply plane is not optimal. 

Kathon, maybe for this campaign we can keep track of how many AFs Blue captures with Ju-52 Fallschirmjägers. My guess is it will rhyme with 'hero' :) 

Edited by StG77_Kondor
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Wow... I see alot of people wanting balance, but then i see others wanting historical accuracy. 

 

PLEASE SELECT ONE, THE PLANE SET IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE FAIR IF YOU WANT HISTORICAL ACCURACY 

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10 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Wow... I see alot of people wanting balance, but then i see others wanting historical accuracy. 

 

PLEASE SELECT ONE, THE PLANE SET IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE FAIR IF YOU WANT HISTORICAL ACCURACY 

 

The current plane set is neither historical nor balanced.

 

also there is a discussion a couple of pages back about balance.

 

this is a sim game. Balance has no place in it. 

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On 6/22/2018 at 7:33 PM, =LG=Kathon said:

New TAW campaign starts on Sunday 24.06.18 European morning.

  • Randomized level of AI gunners,
  •  Pilot will not score AK if he dies earlier or AK happens during the new sortie (example: pilot damaged enemy aircraft then landed and started a new sortie and then enemy aircraft crashes)

 

How random are the gunner skills? Do they go all the way from crappy to super, or medium to super, or bad to medium, or...?

 

Why the change to AK scoring? Is it a technical limitation, or is it just because it is an "unobserved" kill, or...?

 

And one thing about the planeset: How come the Germans get the 109 F-4 on map #2? The F-2 is superior to the MiG already, and it's not like the P-40 can compete other than in turn radius and dive speed, even against the F-2.

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Oh great the Germans get the f4 on map 2 cause if thats one thing the Germans need it an f4 on map 2 🙄

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HR_Eldamar said:

In the first place I do not see very right that the red team has to wait for the fourth map to have a lagg3 with cannons

 

Lies.

The Lagg3 comes by default with 20mm cannon and a single .50cal which was by far the most common loadout for the lagg3. Saying that the lagg3 comes without a cannon is simply not true. The 23mm cannon was so rare on lagg3's that you could count the number of planes fitted with it in a single hand but in game everyone and their dog uses it; and the 37mm only comes on the late series, but I guess you reds forgot about that.... :rolleyes:

Edited by Willy__

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Lol, i love how people were abdicating for a more historical lineup, and when the TAW team does it, everyone complains

 

Give them a break guys, they did what YOU asked, the f4 WAS present in the battle of moscow. 

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Just because the F-4 was present doesn't mean that this is a correct way to put it into map 2. 

 

As it is now you will see as many F4s in the air as F2s which is far from reality because very few units were equipped with them. Of course you can argue that this justifies it putting it on 0/1 but in my opinion this is a slippery slope because it would/should be the case for other aircrafts as well. 

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18 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

Just because the F-4 was present doesn't mean that this is a correct way to put it into map 2. 

 

As it is now you will see as many F4s in the air as F2s which is far from reality because very few units were equipped with them. Of course you can argue that this justifies it putting it on 0/1 but in my opinion this is a slippery slope because it would/should be the case for other aircrafts as well. 

Especially cause the Russians don't even get an extra mig to compensate. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, =FEW=nightrise said:

Especially cause the Russians don't even get an extra mig to compensate. 

You meant P40 right?

 

 

Admin awake yet? I want to shoot stuff.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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11 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

The current plane set is neither historical nor balanced.

 

this is a sim game. Balance has no place in it. 

 

True. In historical plane set we would have Ju 88 from the start. 

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You can make some of the people happy all of the time, but none happy all the time. I am just glad it is kicking off. For at least a few maps the reds are slightly at a disadvantage, especially with the F4 but that seems historically accurate in a broader sense of the actually war, not plane set :)

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29 minutes ago, =69.GIAP=Shvak said:

You can make some of the people happy all of the time, but none happy all the time.

And when no one is happy, you know you have reached a compromise 😄

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7 hours ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Lol, i love how people were abdicating for a more historical lineup, and when the TAW team does it, everyone complains

 

Give them a break guys, they did what YOU asked, the f4 WAS present in the battle of moscow. 

 

7 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

Just because the F-4 was present doesn't mean that this is a correct way to put it into map 2. 

 

As it is now you will see as many F4s in the air as F2s which is far from reality because very few units were equipped with them. Of course you can argue that this justifies it putting it on 0/1 but in my opinion this is a slippery slope because it would/should be the case for other aircrafts as well. 

 

And the 1941 F-4 would be limited to 1.3 ata as well IIRC.


@StG77_Kondor imho considering the most competitive way of dealing with tank columns for both sides is carpet bombing with 50 and 100 Kg bombs I don't consider the IL-2's 23mm a big issue, it's effectiveness is also decreased by crosswinds and low level turbulence which tends to be common in TAW missions.
 For what I could test the 23mm needs 20 impacts to destroy a Panzer IV in the side (15 to set it smoking), the 30mm needs 8-9 hits to destroy a T-34 in comparison (7 to set it smoking). So the 30mm is more powerful, but the IL-2 has two cannons and they have higher rate of fire which makes a one pass kill possible. If there was an Me 410 with twin MK 103s in the nose killing T-34s in one pass would be possible and maybe even easier than with the IL-2, seeing it would be a shorter burst and from center mounted guns.

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1 minute ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


@StG77_Kondor imho considering the most competitive way of dealing with tank columns for both sides is carpet bombing with 50 and 100 Kg bombs I don't consider the IL-2's 23mm a big issue, it's effectiveness is also decreased by crosswinds and low level turbulence which tends to be common in TAW missions.

don't wanna make a thing out of this, but fact is the Ju 88, Pe-2, and A20B are also significantly impacted by crosswinds and turbulence when hitting tank columns. if I had a buck for every time I've been knocked 20m off the road one second before drop, I could gift every game in the Great Battles inventory.

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Okay, morning has broken across the entire Europe... I am assuming it was a heavy night celebrating for =LG=Kathon 

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1 hour ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

 

And the 1941 F-4 would be limited to 1.3 ata as well IIRC.

 

The problem is that F-4 with 1.3 ata is much better than F2.

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Posted (edited)

Server is up, but seems all options are available on a/c?

 

Edited by Kaiza

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35 minutes ago, Kaiza said:

Server is up, but seems all options are available on a/c?

 

Seems so, like 2500 kg bomb on He-111 and so on.

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3 minutes ago, LLv34_adexu said:

Seems so, like 2500 kg bomb on He-111 and so on.

 

is a bug, kathon fixed soon

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Just now, StG2_Raven said:

 

is a bug, kathon fixed soon

take off fast with 2500 kgs! 😄

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Posted (edited)

@Norz I don't see how will affect how many times I've flown the ju-52 to the fact that red cannot air capture any bases so please don't step into personal issues if you don't have any real argument. What I'm trying to expose is that I don't mind flying or escorting transports to air-capture AFs, I'd just like to have a counterpart on the red side. And while we don't get one it's completely unfair.

 

@StG77_Kondor ask the finns how many AFs did they conquer on the last edition... and I'm sure a lot of people played their part on the air-captures.

 

and regarding the planeset, I did not enter into detail, we fight with what we have, but it shocks some of us the fact that we are not getting any shvaks in the first missions nor VYas but there are plenty of Bk-37s and gunpods for the blue side (except italian 20mm gunpods *only* on the first map). Fine.

 

Anyway, check out the pilot's ratio: the war is ours comrades!:)

 

 

Edited by HR_Tofolo
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