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Game version 1.105 discussion: Bf 110 E-2, Tanks, Mouse Control

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Well, I'm hating it.  The 110 is pretty and so are the tanks but the overall impact on my fav server has been a complete disaster.  The place now appears to be infested with 10 year olds from WT or Christ knows where who've totally destroyed the ambiance of the place with their childish boorish behaviour.  Typically they mob airfields and shoot-up people trying to get off the ground or alternatively pack rape individual aircraft.   Ten minutes of this crap is about as much as any adult can take.

 

If this is the future I'm out. 

 

 

I immediatly noticed that in WoL yesterday, too.People cursing an threatening each other in chat over teamkills and killstealing... the whole vocabular really came directly from WT.

 

But you could also see that immediatly one of the old crowd intervened and stopped this behaviour, even before I had typed in almost the same as him.

It is up to us to teach all the new players what kind of place this is and what it is really all about.

 

Anyway I'm pretty sure all those who just came in for the kills and not for flying won't stay for long. At least not on the expert servers.

Edited by NachtJaeger110

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I only had 5 minutes to update and try the game, and less than 30 seconds to read the dev. diary with the news.
Stupid question: can I operate a tank in single palyer?

Haven't seen anything in the menus, couldn't try that

 

 

Thank you!

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I only had 5 minutes to update and try the game, and less than 30 seconds to read the dev. diary with the news.

Stupid question: can I operate a tank in single palyer?

Haven't seen anything in the menus, couldn't try that

 

 

Thank you!

Some people released so mission for tanks. Without external mission, no QMB for it. (missions by veteran66 I think, who already made two wonderful SP campaign for plane. )

 

Last page : http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19123-how-il2-stats-ruining-multi-player-gameplay/?do=findComment&comment=300527

Edited by LAL_Trinkof

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Well, I'm hating it. The 110 is pretty and so are the tanks but the overall impact on my fav server has been a complete disaster. The place now appears to be infested with 10 year olds from WT or Christ knows where who've totally destroyed the ambiance of the place with their childish boorish behaviour. Typically they mob airfields and shoot-up people trying to get off the ground or alternatively pack rape individual aircraft. Ten minutes of this crap is about as much as any adult can take.

 

If this is the future I'm out.

This has happened a couple of times through the development. While I agree it is up to us to guide these energetic youth, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Those that stay will learn the culture. Those that don't learn the culture won't stay. It will all shake out pretty quickly.

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I am having a lot of fun with the tanks, thank you. This is already better than the nonsense that WOT and WT have been serving for years.

 

I am reading that the tanks were realized on developer's spare time. I hope it is more serious than that and that we shall see much improvement in the armor department in the future.

totally agree.Myson set up WoT on my PC but I hated it because I had to steer with key-stroked-totally non-intuitive! Here I've gor almost everything tied into Mouse & joystick ( still trying to use joystick triggers for cannon & mg...but I'm sure eventually i'll get that working too...)Track IR works great too- non of this is usable in WoT to my knowledge. Love blitzing around the countryside shooting at every red dot on the horizon! I do hope down the road we'll get the other tanks 7 perhaps vehicles as well & who knows way in the future Kursk with Panthers & Tigers/?For now I think I'll just delete WoT for good!

U-Pz.:

2015_11_27__0_2_0%20copy_zpsmdlnt2vb.jpg

 

2015_11_27__0_2_1%20copy_zpse1kxbe4d.jpg

 

2015_11_27__0_2_2%20copy_zpsnekuyhht.jpg

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I immediatly noticed that in WoL yesterday, too.People cursing an threatening each other in chat over teamkills and killstealing... the whole vocabular really came directly from WT.

 

But you could also see that immediatly one of the old crowd intervened and stopped this behaviour, even before I had typed in almost the same as him.

It is up to us to teach all the new players what kind of place this is and what it is really all about.

 

Anyway I'm pretty sure all those who just came in for the kills and not for flying won't stay for long. At least not on the expert servers.

It's most important in these situations to remind them what game they're in. I think we should also remind them that stats don't matter in this game. That's kinda why I'm glad unlocks don't work via multiplayer. Wether they'll listen or not will also matter. :)

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I immediatly noticed that in WoL yesterday, too.People cursing an threatening each other in chat over teamkills and killstealing... the whole vocabular really came directly from WT.

 

But you could also see that immediatly one of the old crowd intervened and stopped this behaviour, even before I had typed in almost the same as him.

It is up to us to teach all the new players what kind of place this is and what it is really all about.

 

Anyway I'm pretty sure all those who just came in for the kills and not for flying won't stay for long. At least not on the expert servers.

 

Last night was a horror story, no idea why this behavior was happening but it's just made me determined to get my own server (invite only) set up asap. We got rammed on the ground so many times by impatient idiots it was unbelievable. It's not the game it's what happens when you get those sort of people entering a sim and not having a clue what to do or how to behave. Best move on and find nice people to fly with :)

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Probably better, for now anyway, to educate them and make them PART of the community as opposed to rolling over and fracturing it further. We are, after all, trying to build numbers not dilute them. One of those annoying wannabe's could be a valuable wingman down the road.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf
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-snip-

 

It's not the game it's what happens when you get those sort of people entering a sim and not having a clue what to do or how to behave.

 

-snip-

 

I was saying this the day mouse-joy was announced but nobody wanted to hear it.

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-snip-

 

We are, after all, trying to build numbers not dilute them.One of those annoying wannabe's could be a valuable wingman down the road.

 

I civilly disagree with you... On average, none of the WT migrants are going to make it "down the road."

 

So I'll reiterate what I said about that in the DD:

"To clarify, I have no problem with the finite number of people who will make the transition... The problem I have is this disillusionment that having mouse-joy is somehow going to save a dying breed. It's not. It's two different communities, a massively different playstyle, a different (lower) level of appreciation for these aircraft, the history, the battles."

 

Murph... Building numbers for the sake of numbers can mean the dilution of the hobby. Just a mere couple of days in and we're already getting a flavor of what the WT players are really going to bring to the table... It's unlikely that this behavior will get any better if the popularity of this title grows with that consumer base... That's like saying that Sim Battles is different than Arcade Battles... Sure, the gameplay is different... But the community? It never changes. 

Edited by Space_Ghost

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  The place now appears to be infested with 10 year olds from WT or Christ knows where 

 

Well, this indicates that the objectives toward "new players" are being achieved...  :lol:

 

BTW - What are useful in that "blinking" CHAT? I turn this off in MP...   ;)

Edited by Sokol1

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Well, this indicates that the objectives toward "new players" are being achieved...  :lol:

 

Pre-freakin'-cisely.

 

I wonder how many of the guys around here have actually had a taste of WT's community...  :mellow:

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I HATE rookies in my current profession. But, you can't just cut em or bail on them. You gotta train them up and get em into the culture. The vast majority become assets.

 

Train your teammates and get them into the fold. (Trying to train guys on the opposing side will be harder. Correcting across the lines might seem like you are chipping at them.) Coaching guys on your own team will pay long term benefits for all of us. Remember where we are drawing from for personnel - both for age and experience. Old soldiers always hate recruits but ultimately need them in the end. It's no different here.

 

Culture change is always difficult.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf

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The thing is there are two kinds of people. One being guys who appreciate this game for realism and are interested in aircrafts, battles and simulation. They seek for help to be integrated into the IL-2 comunity and contribute to the genre.

 

And tgere are those that see this as a game with minorly relevant historical background, but hell it has planes, fire it up for half an hour and just want to see some quick action without caring for other players nor investing effort in practising.

 

The second group, as sad as it is, are the ones that get attracted by options such as mouse waffe, which doesn't require any high level of training and piloting effort.

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I was saying this the day mouse-joy was announced but nobody wanted to hear it.

 

Is mouse control available on WOL?

 

It wont be on any server I host that's for sure :)

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Huge assumption there. Mouse aim/joy is the gateway. If we are seeing enough new annoying guys it means ITS WORKING as envisioned as a recruiting tool. Now it is OUR JOB to teach them. I didn't give a rip about the Eastern Front until IL2 and I've been studying the air war for three decades. Educate them through the game, through play and through mentoring.

 

Unfortunately, when they die here they are not lost forever. They will respawn to annoy you all over again. If nothing else, just giving up lets them win and tarnishes our self image as 'air warriors!' ;)

 

Or we can walk around grousing like a bunch of old grandmothers. The choice is yours.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf
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The thing is there are two kinds of people. One being guys who appreciate this game for realism and are interested in aircrafts, battles and simulation. They seek for help to be integrated into the IL-2 comunity and contribute to the genre.

 

And tgere are those that see this as a game with minorly relevant historical background, but hell it has planes, fire it up for half an hour and just want to see some quick action without caring for other players nor investing effort in practising.

 

The second group, as sad as it is, are the ones that get attracted by options such as mouse waffe, which doesn't require any high level of training and piloting effort.

Conpletely disagree. The "second group" has no point to come over here. For them War Thunder is highly superior to BoS. It has way more planes, more maps, more variety, it is for free, it takes way less time to get into action (mouse aim in BoS doesn't negate the fact that it is a huge map with long ways to the action), they get their rewards in form of flashy XP points, and in ingame money to buy new planes. For them the high fidelity aircraft in BoS don't mean a lot, and definitely won't persuade them to spend a lot of money, whereas their better option War Thunder is for free.

However the mouse-control will attract players who are interested in history, and who count on realistic high fidelity models, they don't get in War Thunder, but don't yet own expensive flight simulation gear.

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Huge assumption there. Mouse aim/joy is the gateway. If we are seeing enough new annoying guys it means ITS WORKING as envisioned as a recruiting tool. Now it is OUR JOB to teach them. I didn't give a rip about the Eastern Front until IL2 and I've been studying the air war for three decades. Educate them through the game, through play and through mentoring.

 

Unfortunately, when they die here they are not lost forever. They will respawn to annoy you all over again. If nothing else, just giving up lets them win and tarnishes our self image as 'air warriors!' ;)

 

Or we can walk around grousing like a bunch of old grandmothers. The choice is yours.

 

I see you point but some of us don't have all day for that, I've done my part and would simply like to be able to get off the ground with out these clowns repeatedly ramming us because they are impatient and have spawned behind a twin which happened many many times last night to the point we couldn't get 3 of us off the ground at the same time in two hours.

 

They will learn because when df servers get boring and they want to be included in the more interesting aspects of the sim and they're going to be locked out. 

 

I've pretty much had enough with public DF servers (fighting legends is still ok) which is a shame because the WOL guys put a lot of time and effort in to their server only to be ruined. If you are soft on people they do keep doing things, you need to be harsh and fair and not pander to them.

 

Anyway we digress....the sim is awesome, I'd like to fly on closed servers so what everyone else does is up to them :)

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Frankly, both of you have arguments with merit. That, however, does not change the fact that WE have to educate both camps.

 

Or, you know, "Ow, my aching old ankles....."

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Conpletely disagree. The "second group" has no point to come over here. For them War Thunder is highly superior to BoS. It has way more planes, more maps, more variety, it is for free, it takes way less time to get into action (mouse aim in BoS doesn't negate the fact that it is a huge map with long ways to the action), they get their rewards in form of flashy XP points, and in ingame money to buy new planes. For them the high fidelity aircraft in BoS don't mean a lot, and definitely won't persuade them to spend a lot of money, whereas their better option War Thunder is for free.

However the mouse-control will attract players who are interested in history, and who count on realistic high fidelity models, they don't get in War Thunder, but don't yet own expensive flight simulation gear.

Agreed.

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Conpletely disagree. The "second group" has no point to come over here. ...

Well they're cerainly not the only one but without doubt the group with highest interest in this feauture. And it's not like devs really didn't want BoS to appeal to this group of players either.

Seeing how much money people can sink into WT for premium and other ingame stuff the free to play vs pay for game argument doesn't cut it for all.

 

If the devs really hit the jackpot with the mouse waffe and tanks I assume we may expect many more bug fixes (especially in FM department) in future - nice.

 

As far as the playerbase split goes, I've roughtly observed the player split on mouse and joystick only servers for the week at European prime times. It's roughtly about 50:50. I will wait a few weeks and see how this number develops after the update-hype is cooled down and player numbers stabilize.

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I don't see how guys can't see the "I'm taking my toys and going home," argument is just as selfish as the idiots doing the "me first" WT for grind points tactics. And it's self defeating. It's all about the education guys. You don't have to take the other guys education all on yourself. A nudge from this guy, a slap down from that teammate, a nudge from that guy over there. It works! I have one guy in mind who was a flaming bung on these forums and just as obnoxious. Probably a younger guy by type. After a bit of the above he is hardly present in the forums now and (mostly) pleasant to fly with online. Don't bail or just tolerate....EDUCATE!

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf
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If the devs really hit the jackpot with the mouse waffe and tanks I assume we may expect many more bug fixes (especially in FM department) in future - nice.

 

 

Edit: being unreasonably argumentative! I post better sober!

Edited by No601_Swallow

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I have played on WT aircraft and ground forces in the past...I've tried educating several people over on the WT servers... they were not interested.

Remarks like ''I can play the game any way I want'' and ''report me then, I don't care'' and of course the usual swearing in return.

I have even had a couple of people stalking me, waiting for me to enter a game and team killing me on several occasions... 

 

These are just some of the characters you will soon find inhabit your servers if the hype over drawing crowds from WT are actually bearing fruit.

Oh, yes there will be the good guys as well... but, it already sounds like the migration is in effect looking at the posts above.

 

Good luck everyone, tin hats on!

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Great to see this kind of attitude, HerrMuff. It's down to the community to decide if flight sim pilots will go down in history as an open bunch that always made space for newcomers old and new, or the obnoxious elitist bunch that treated everyone like they were inferior. There's room and potential here, and we need to capitalise on it no matter how.

 

Also, one needs to think big. Compared to FIFA, CoD, SW:BF and so on Il-2 is more or less cheap - I mean, $50 for standard edition with loads of sales throughout the year. It's expanding into a different scenario, tanks have been introduced for easy and more forgiving fun, and the entry bar has been considerably lowered by further removing the stick as a Must Have (instead placing it as a Very Good To Have). The graphics and processing requirements are on par with most new games, and often lower. As more playability features emerge together with 'newbie friendliness' in the software and community too, I don't see why we can't have a second of the golden age of flight simulators within the decade. Il-2, RoF, DCS and WT give all players a share of the cake, including the arcade lovers. Back in the olden days there were also tons of Sims that were a little or a lot more arcadeish than the hardcore stuff, but they funnelled the would-be hardcore pilots well. It all starts with dumb fun - blowing stuff up or flying under bridges, then you realise that the burst you fired from far away hit the target in such a silly and unrealistic manner that it starts spoiling the game, and that time you went all in for a complex stall manoeuvre the simplified FMs took over and not only your counter-attack was foiled but you also lost a little faith in the game. Person then finds out that for $50 they can get a completely different experience where stuff works the way it should, and they can tune difficulty to their level of experience. Why not try it?

 

At least that's how most simmers I know got into more hardcore stuff.

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I've gotta shay, (Ha! Fortuitous inebriated typo!), I think I'd rather there were lots of servers of different sorts bubbling away, like in the good ol' Hyperlobby days, even if many of the server were inhabited by they type of "wonder-woman" fliers I often encountered in IL-2 '46 servers before I joined a squadron. I mean, that's what squadrons are for - to join together like-minded simmers!

 

And anyway, after all the angst about flight sims being a shrivelling gaming ghetto, wouldn't it be a nice problem to have - too many simmers?!

 

Less breast-beating please!

 

Edit: I think Lucas has said it better than me!

Edited by No601_Swallow

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And another thing!  :P  I'm looking forward to the moment - surely round the corner - when there are VR devices ushering in Lucas's "golden age" of simming on steroids (and whatever Jason says about Oculus, it can not not come to this sim). What are we going to do then, when confronted by, you know, the normal range of normal gamers who are dying to discover the world of flight through computer simulations? Hopefully, we'll ignore the jerks and have fun with people who want to engage in the same aspects of the sim that we do.

 

And don't forget, there are many different ways of approaching and using this hobby. (Go on, check out the mission editor... you know you want to...)

Edited by No601_Swallow

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As Swallow has said, Hyperlobby days, with all kind of servers and all kinds of pilots on the go a few years back was quite the norm... I remember it well.

In fact I lived for it, I was online most nights...

But don't think for one minute that the clients were any different from today... there were many 'elitist' pilots around then too.

There were also the usual problem children that turned up on a regular basis and team killers, kill stealers, vulching maniacs etc were all in abundance :)

 

I've not been online with BoS... But it sounds like perhaps you onliners here have been spoilt somewhat, lol!

I can't believe that everyone so far have been real gentleman of the air.

 

If the WT crowd do come over in larger numbers, then be prepared for some drama... if you are fortunate to have never been over there, I'm sure you will be in for a suprise if some of the people I've run into turn up here... 

 

Again, I'll say there are good guys over there as well... but even I was shocked by some of the antics that people turned to when I gave it a go... I spent years on hyperlobby and had never seen behaviour like it before.

 

I had been toying with the idea about trying my hand online in this game recently... but reports of tanks blowing planes out of the sky etc, just made me think about it again.

Still, we shall see... 

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I'm pretty sure the WT crew composed by its very different bestiary, will leave at a certain point after the hype factor, going back to WT, because there are lot of things to unlock in that game while in this sim there's no tech tree or supercannonammolaserguidedww2shellsultrasuperexplosivehyperpotential2500mmcalMG, so you might not be so worried, just be patient and the time will pull back things to normality, we will be happy and 777 is happy 'cause they sold lot of copies of the game, and peace to the whole world.

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Hi, new to forum. I have BOS only but luv the tanks. Does remind me of Panzer Elite. Add in a menu for the tank cmdr, binoculars and ability to call in arty and maybe air power and this would shine. Maybe in future update.

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So you mean to say that adding Mouse Control means that WT players are buying BoS?

 

GOOD!

 

There's 400,000 people playing that game, let's hope a good portion of them buy BoS :-D

Edited by SharpeXB

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There will be jerks in any crowd. There were/are jerks in our servers and there certainly were before mouse stickers got the call up. By and large what we should seek is to change the gamer culture/feeding frenzy when we encounter it - particularly if he is flying on your side. Most people are pretty decent but if you were raised to eat your neighbor you probably don't know any better when you move to a new town.

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The old Il-2 in its HyperLobby glory and LOMAC/FC/FC2 had such a wild crowd online that it's hard to imagine a flight sim without that - which makes it a little surprising to see that people were not expecting immature behaviour. It is easy to get used to higher standards though, nobody is to blame for that.

 

My first (out of only 2) Lock On sortie was on an F-15. I took off, climbed to 4000m, got distracted reading a chat war where someone was complaining about the AIM-120 being a cheat or whatever with all the name calling one can imagine and them was promptly zapped by what I think (IIRC) was a friendly missile coming from my six some 20km out of the base. HL had all kinds of crazy stuff going on. The point is, once you learn to ignore that you see how much the volume helps the overall picture, which seems to be the direction the devs are going here.

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Well, I'm hating it.  The 110 is pretty and so are the tanks but the overall impact on my fav server has been a complete disaster.  The place now appears to be infested with 10 year olds from WT or Christ knows where who've totally destroyed the ambiance of the place with their childish boorish behaviour.  Typically they mob airfields and shoot-up people trying to get off the ground or alternatively pack rape individual aircraft.   Ten minutes of this crap is about as much as any adult can take.

 

If this is the future I'm out. 

 

i totally did not see this coming

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I can honestly say, I haven't seen this bad behavior over the last few days. What I have seen is a wider range of servers being populated than ever before. If the price of kicking MP into a higher gear is a few mal-adjusted teenagers, then I'm willing to pay.

 

Besides, I really don't get the "kids these days" attitude. It was exactly the same back when I was a teen playing the first incarnation of Counter Strike (Jeez! That was before some of these kids we're talking about were even born. I'm old :( )

 

I'm just glad to have opponents in MP.

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The old Il-2 in its HyperLobby glory and LOMAC/FC/FC2 had such a wild crowd online that it's hard to imagine a flight sim without that - which makes it a little surprising to see that people were not expecting immature behaviour. It is easy to get used to higher standards though, nobody is to blame for that.

 

My first (out of only 2) Lock On sortie was on an F-15. I took off, climbed to 4000m, got distracted reading a chat war where someone was complaining about the AIM-120 being a cheat or whatever with all the name calling one can imagine and them was promptly zapped by what I think (IIRC) was a friendly missile coming from my six some 20km out of the base. HL had all kinds of crazy stuff going on. The point is, once you learn to ignore that you see how much the volume helps the overall picture, which seems to be the direction the devs are going here.

 

This made me laugh due to the fact that in DCS servers nowadays nothing have changed since the times of LOMAC, you can still see these kind of situations

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I play daily since the patch and all I've noticed so far are questions about tank control.

 

Also I don't get this "Must be WT 10 years children came bto IL-2 becouse of mouse control"

How do you know? I can't see why persons like that would ever leave WT arcade instant action with hundreds planes just becouse they add similar control option.

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