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Developer Diary, Part 88 - Discussion

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May I just add, that to anyone who follows logistics and the order of battle of Germany in WW2, it was not so much the loss of fighters, which were relatively easy to replace. It was the loss of PILOTS, TRANSPORTS, and BOMBERS that were irreplaceable. I recommend the following read, published from the USAF and available for free online: 

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/

 

A huge amount of the truly irreplaceable German losses in this regard occurred in the largely ignored by the flight simming community (so far) battle of Malta, Mediterranean, Italy/Sicily, and North Africa, circa 1942-3. It is interesting to note that during this time occurred the air struggle with the greatest qualitatively and quantitative parity between the Western Allies and Axis. This period also, by the way, involved the most varied type of missions (from strategic bombing, to ship raiding, to island fortress assault, to mass German parachute landings), the most varied type of terrain (from European mountains, to African deserts, to mid-ocean and islands), the largest number of national air forces (Italian, British et al, American, German, Romanian/Hungarian), and some of the longest distance missions and biggest logistical swings for air forces fighting in Europe during the war.

 

Again, largely ignored so far. 

 

Andrew Brookes in his book "Air War Over Russia" says something like this (I don't have the English version):

 

" In war over Russia there were at least 77 000 German planes lost. If we compare it to German losses during BoB, which counted 1733 planes, we can see that it (BoB) was just a slight injury..."

 

So for me it's not yet 'too much of Eastern front', on the contrary, I hope for at least one more (Kuban/Kursk/Crimea) before moving to other theaters like Africa, Meditarenian, Pacific, Western front...

Edited by Venturi
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No Ju 87 B-2 or R-2? :sorry:

 

I think that's part of the puzzle. I think they will use BOS planes if compatible with BOM historically 

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this guy is asking the correct questions! the other 99 percent of you all seem to be brainwashed zombies....all excited over this new BoM....hell BoS is still brand new and BROKE and you all are already willing to shell out more money for another piece of software? hundreds of posts almost daily asking for the devs to fix and add to BoS and yet they (devs and their "super limited/small team) are already starting on a new game to take more of you sheeples money. FIX WHAT WE HAVE! bos has TONS of potential and all we want is for it to be fixed and improved upon. as for you zombies, STOP GIVING THE DEVS MONEY and supporting them in releasing incomplete software. make them work for their damn money like the rest of us have to. I am very disappointed. just spent the 100 bucks for BoS about a month ago with high hopes for it only to read the diary today which makes me feel like all of us BoS fans have just been thrown on the back burner....which is EXACTLY the case if they are already starting on a new game....bah.... if the team of programmers is so small that it takes months upon months for them to fix/add to BoS then they have NO business adding to that work load creating a new title. just my 2 cents.

 

Please re-evaluate after 1.009 is released. I'm also hoping that some loose ends will get sorted to make the foundation stronger. Assuming descent progress there, BOM will be a super step forward IMHO and very much looking forward to the expanded plane set, despite the similar theatre, and the fact that it leads us to a future where plenty is possible in terms of future modules, for example Afrika. [Nice summary of the Med: Venturi Reply #204!]

Edited by FlyingNutcase

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W-w-w-w-w-waaaat???

 

 

 

Macchi C.202 and P-40E!!!
 

 

 

 

 

 

My wallet and credit card damn it!!

:wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:

Edited by Ioshic

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On the other hand, we all know that BOS is still inferior from CLOD 

 

Not where I'm sitting.  CLOD MP is still a stuttering mess for me, with lots of stuff that still crashes.

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Great news!

 

But this brings up some questions like:

 

Will this be integrated into BoS, like for example Pacific Fighters?

Will there be a Steam version of this?

Will the early access version be without Steam again?

If so, will it work with the non Steam version of BoS?

 

And while I am asking about Steam versions, I might just as well ask, whether it is possible to send the early access players a free Steam key that is locked to their account?

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Not where I'm sitting.  CLOD MP is still a stuttering mess for me, with lots of stuff that still crashes.

I've got no problem with CloD MP at full real. IMO it destroys BOS MP, no contest.

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I have to say,

I agree totally with Emil and Boelie.

I miss the old IL2 days (before the Mods splintered it into a hundred pieces), I miss the big squad Coop missions against the EAF,those guys could fly well.(But we flew better!! HA Ha)

I remember some nights not being able to get into Hyperlobby because it was full (and it held a 1000 slots!)

Numbers the BoS Devs would wet themselves with excitement over.

Gone are those days, it breaks my heart, and brings a tear to my eye.

Please I hope the Devs read every post, YOU and only you have the opportunity to make THE best flight sim every made,

To bring the community back together from 46, DCS, CloD, RoF, and a dozen others. Don't miss it or throw it away just to make a buck.

We didnt care that much about FM's or DM'S, you flew what you had, and you flew it as a squad.... together.

Not like it is now,dogfight servers where a Rotte or Schwarm can fly around picking off individuals at will. Players who Vulch and fly recklessly and don't care if they are shot down,

because they just spawn and spawn again. Is this what a sim like this is about..... really?

This game is crying out for CooP missions, not more planes. (nice, but not desperately needed)

So its over to You guys, no pressure.

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I've got no problem with CloD MP at full real. IMO it destroys BOS MP, no contest.

 

Good for you.  Unfortunately, CloD sucks for me.  

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Nice to hear something about the future of the game and that the game has a future, even if it's not one I find particularly interesting at this point. Still, early days and lots of unanswered questions.

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Guys this is a completely new planeset. Notice none of the current planes are in that list. This is pretty much looking like an expansion. You notice on the campaign page for selecting Battle of Stalingrad there is all this extra space to the right side? That's-a-where-this-is-a-goin! 

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I'd really like them to build on this game, like they did with the first IL-2 with all these addons, resulting in 1946 with a huge amount of aircraft and scenarios.

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May I just add, that to anyone who follows logistics and the order of battle of Germany in WW2, it was not so much the loss of fighters, which were relatively easy to replace. It was the loss of PILOTS, TRANSPORTS, and BOMBERS that were irreplaceable. I recommend the following read, published from the USAF and available for free online: 

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/

 

A huge amount of the truly irreplaceable German losses in this regard occurred in the largely ignored by the flight simming community (so far) battle of Malta, Mediterranean, Italy/Sicily, and North Africa, circa 1942-3. It is interesting to note that during this time occurred the air struggle with the greatest qualitatively and quantitative parity between the Western Allies and Axis. This period also, by the way, involved the most varied type of missions (from strategic bombing, to ship raiding, to island fortress assault, to mass German parachute landings), the most varied type of terrain (from European mountains, to African deserts, to mid-ocean and islands), the largest number of national air forces (Italian, British et al, American, German, Romanian/Hungarian), and some of the longest distance missions and biggest logistical swings for air forces fighting in Europe during the war.

 

Again, largely ignored so far. 

 

In the words of Kanye West,

 

Imma let you finish, but... 

 

These developers are Russian. Most of us are here because of our interest in the Eastern Front/Russian history. Nothing wrong with those campaigns that you mention, but these guys have their own niche, and that's why a lot of us are fans of 1C and 777

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I'm glad BoS is going with the model of the original IL2 series regarding expansions. It was a great way to do it then and still is I think. The planes chosen are very sensible too. They really help to complement the current planes we have. These should make most everyone happy. I've been asking for a Bf-110 and Ju-88 for a while, glad to see both coming in some form. But in all honesty, I'll probably spend more time in the flying beer can. :P

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They said the TEN plane PACIFIC theater is in the works? Can I start that rumor.............................. :lol: ?

Man my squad of 25 will be all over that like a kid on a ice cream cone. Pacific and carrier operations man that would be worth $200.

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The massive cost of the Luftwaffe diversion FROM the OSTFRONT to the MED in 42 and then back east again in 43, resulted in massive losses of transports, bombers, pilots, fuel, time, wear and tear, and that this all played into the costly losses on the Eastern front from 43-44.

 

I also look forward to the Eastern front battle of Moscow. But after 43 my interest wanes. You were lucky to survive more than a handful of missions as a German pilot at that time. The Luftwaffe went from a true multirole integrated airforce, which the Germans pioneered so successfully in 39 and 40, to a purely defensive reactionary fighter scramble system, with barely trained children piloting planes which were built with slave labor from shoddy materials, hugely outnumbered, and fighting a badly losing war.

 

I prefer H-J Marseille, Budanova, Edwards

 

P40s and Mig 3s and 109E-7s and 110s

and luckily the battle of Moscow fits right in there

YMMV 

 

 

Imma let you finish, but... 

These developers are Russian. Most of us are here because of our interest in the Eastern Front/Russian history. Nothing wrong with those campaigns that you mention, but these guys have their own niche, and that's why a lot of us are fans of 1C and 777

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Carrier aspect would be sweet, but from experience all that blue gets old real quik.... maybe a smaller map it would work....

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Best news in all of this: BoS has been a success to the extent that the developers are continuing their work in the new Il-2 universe. THAT is so great to see. I'm stoked about the I-16 and the MiG-3, they'll be a very interesting challenge to fly and land.

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I'm glad to see that there are more people who are reminiscing the old days, do note I'm 29 years old (physically at least). 

 

My hope for IL2 BoS is that we are once again brought back to 1 community. The comradery in those times was superb! I don't want another game to result in this small community splitting up again. DEVs, please make BoM an expansion pack. I think you've got a good thing going with BoS, continue on this path, keep the players in one community. It's so much more difficult to get a good group of people together, don't make it any harder for us!

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this guy is asking the correct questions! the other 99 percent of you all seem to be brainwashed zombies....all excited over this new BoM....hell BoS is still brand new and BROKE and you all are already willing to shell out more money for another piece of software? hundreds of posts almost daily asking for the devs to fix and add to BoS and yet they (devs and their "super limited/small team) are already starting on a new game to take more of you sheeples money. FIX WHAT WE HAVE! bos has TONS of potential and all we want is for it to be fixed and improved upon. as for you zombies, STOP GIVING THE DEVS MONEY and supporting them in releasing incomplete software. make them work for their damn money like the rest of us have to. I am very disappointed. just spent the 100 bucks for BoS about a month ago with high hopes for it only to read the diary today which makes me feel like all of us BoS fans have just been thrown on the back burner....which is EXACTLY the case if they are already starting on a new game....bah.... if the team of programmers is so small that it takes months upon months for them to fix/add to BoS then they have NO business adding to that work load creating a new title. just my 2 cents.

 

Ok you need to get a grip. Bear in mind that BoM is an expansion.. not a new and separate product.. even if it can be used as one... so you loose nothing. Relax man... and say away from that panic button. Also try to get your point across without insulting the majority of the forum.... Just because folks are glad about the future of this sim does not mean that they are mindless zombies... or drones.. or just plain stupid as your post applies. These are very worthwhile things to be excited about...

 

It took a few pages for the sourpusses to come out of the woodwork ;)

 

There's some valid criticism blended in between the butthurt, though.

 

Still I just don't get the 'fix BoS first'-argument. BoS right now is NOT broken. Yes, there are a lot of issues still, but an advanced simulator is never gonna be free of issues and inconsistencies.

 

It's pretty clear that the devs will continue to develop and improve both the core sim and the BoS content during development of BoM, and there's really no conflict there.

 

Some people seem to forget that the devs also run a business and have to generate revenue which will make it posible for them to improve on BoS also. They can't get stuck fixing little things in BoS, they have to start out on the next thing now or nothing at all will be done.

 

No it isn't broken.. it is just incomplete... but we know that the biggest missing pieces are forthcoming...

 

I have to say,

I agree totally with Emil and Boelie.

I miss the old IL2 days (before the Mods splintered it into a hundred pieces), I miss the big squad Coop missions against the EAF,those guys could fly well.(But we flew better!! HA Ha)

I remember some nights not being able to get into Hyperlobby because it was full (and it held a 1000 slots!)

Numbers the BoS Devs would wet themselves with excitement over.

Gone are those days, it breaks my heart, and brings a tear to my eye.

Please I hope the Devs read every post, YOU and only you have the opportunity to make THE best flight sim every made,

To bring the community back together from 46, DCS, CloD, RoF, and a dozen others. Don't miss it or throw it away just to make a buck.

We didnt care that much about FM's or DM'S, you flew what you had, and you flew it as a squad.... together.

Not like it is now,dogfight servers where a Rotte or Schwarm can fly around picking off individuals at will. Players who Vulch and fly recklessly and don't care if they are shot down,

because they just spawn and spawn again. Is this what a sim like this is about..... really?

This game is crying out for CooP missions, not more planes. (nice, but not desperately needed)

So its over to You guys, no pressure.

 

 

Guys this is a completely new planeset. Notice none of the current planes are in that list. This is pretty much looking like an expansion. You notice on the campaign page for selecting Battle of Stalingrad there is all this extra space to the right side? That's-a-where-this-is-a-goin! 

 

Duhhhh You would think that they were talking about an entirely new independent product based on some folks' reactions.. I see nothing in this DD to be unhappy or skeptical about.. the FMB is being worked on.. the Dserver is being worked on.. and the next add on theater is being worked on.

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Carrier aspect would be sweet, but from experience all that blue gets old real quik.... maybe a smaller map it would work....

What!

carriers was the best fun in 46 - for me at elast.

Not the classifGrumman and Vought stuff, that gets boring fast...

but the more alternate "spitfire deliveries" and "land a B-25 on an Essex" stuff... that was cool

"SBD's" "Sb2C", just 10 minutes from the japanese islands.

escort carriers and Sea Hurricanes in the Arctic.

torch.

 

carriers are fun, man... but only if you do not limit yourself to the classics.

keep the mind open...

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great news, best business sense, and not letting those other works be wasted away.. in honor of Ilya and Oleg..

 

+1.  Yeah, lets hope this stuff can be used in BoM.  Will speed up development and would be a shame to think they'd go to waste otherwise. :cool:    

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I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16. I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16. I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16. I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16. I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16. I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16, I16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I16....I16...I16...brainwashing complete...I16..

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I think that it is possible to 

 

great news, best business sense, and not letting those other works be wasted away.. in honor of Ilya and Oleg..

 

+1 

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Here are some screen shots from the cancelled clod expansion.

http://s58.photobucket.com/user/restranger/library/BoM?sort=3&page=1

 

Since bos used a bunch of models from it I would be that they will do the same for bom. I wonder how long it takes them to convert a clod 3d model to bos/bom

 

Ah yes, the album by Restranger aka Major_Setback is still confusing to me.

Is it BOM or BOS based on the CLOD engine? Some screenies look more like Stalingrad. Because of the main river and its side rivers + lakes.

Seems to be closed BOS project:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/8107-mmo-il-2-sturmovik-bos/

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Thanks a lot. It seems that good sims have future...

 

There are thing to be improved, but the german planes included in BoM are just incredible!!! WWOOOWW

 

Make a good campaign and this family of sims will be the one!

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Here are some screen shots from the cancelled clod expansion.

http://s58.photobucket.com/user/restranger/library/BoM?sort=3&page=1

 

Since bos used a bunch of models from it I would be that they will do the same for bom. I wonder how long it takes them to convert a clod 3d model to bos/bom

 

I remember posting about these on the COD forum when they were first shown and the sequel was announced. I was really impressed with the level of detail and how everything looked...."nice fences", I thought....

 

...and I was jumped on by a crowd of disgruntled and dissatisfied COD fans who were just not impressed by news of a sequel - "Why are they doing this when COD is still a mess??!!", "Who cares about fences!!! Fences!!! Fences!?? Fix my !!##@@!!xx!! 109/Spitfire/xxx/yyy/"

 

Most of the die-hard critics were by that time hanging out in a tight group at the SImHQ forum because of 'the unfair and discriminatory policies on the official forum' where they just weren't allowed free speech to slag the game off and say honestly how totally crap it was and how they had been totally shafted and let down by Luthier and the devs...

 

Some things never change...... :rolleyes:

Edited by kendo
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Is the size of the Moscow map already known? If it stretches far enough to the west we could use the BoS plane set for the Rzhev battles in 1942/1943.

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One more question that I don't think I found on the thread or info page.. will it be early access to BoM too, or only delivered when finished?

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