Autopilot and AI

[Sybreed]

9 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Sybreed, The first rule of the pilot: if you see anti-aircraft guns, destroy them without hesitation. You can give your own target designations to your wingmen.

So I need to be squad leader?

 

I still don't think this is a satisfying answer. There are aa guns next to every target in the sim.

 

I doubt it would be a valid excuse for a pilot back in the day. 

 

"Did you destroy that very important bridge to prevent the enemy from invading the town?"

 

" No we saw AA guns and thought these were more important as they can't just be replaced the day after right? So, how is the town doing lmao?"

 

"..."

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

" No we saw AA guns and thought these were more important as they can't just be replaced the day after right? So, how is the town doing lmao?"

Just accept the fact that artificial intelligence is much more artificial stupidity and can make just simple decisions just to have enough resources to calculate all other aspects in the game and give you enough frames per seconds.

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Sybreed, The first rule of the pilot: if you see anti-aircraft guns, destroy them without hesitation. You can give your own target designations to your wingmen.

 

I'm going to have to agree with @Sybreed on this one as well - unless the target is specifically AA guns, the AI need to be attacking the stated target in the briefing - not some random AA gun. This is especially now more important in career mode now, since fighter-bomber missions now consist of one dive on the target and then they head for home.

 

Plus, it's a woeful waste of ammunition to see the AI waste 1000 lbs of bombs on a single AA gun. 

3 minutes ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

Just accept the fact that artificial intelligence is much more artificial stupidity and can make just simple decisions just to have enough resources to calculate all other aspects in the game and give you enough frames per seconds.

 

That's not really a valid or logical point to make - we're talking about what target the AI should target - not some complex air maneuver in the middle of a dogfight. 

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

That's not really a valid or logical point to make - we're talking about what target the AI should target - not some complex air maneuver in the middle of a dogfight.

It could make decision algorithm more complex and resource more consuming. I don't know the code, probably developers would add it to the roadmap. Who knows? Now we don't have the other way than accept the AA is primary objective at the destination.

I've noticed  that whole flight is not attacking target with straight approach. There is turning around the target counter clockwise. And when all the AAs start shooting at my mates, in this situation I'm in the other half-sphere and shooting at those AAs with primary guns. When we clean all the flaks, then I'm going to drop bombs.

[Sybreed]

2 hours ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

It could make decision algorithm more complex and resource more consuming. I don't know the code, probably developers would add it to the roadmap. Who knows? Now we don't have the other way than accept the AA is primary objective at the destination.

I've noticed  that whole flight is not attacking target with straight approach. There is turning around the target counter clockwise. And when all the AAs start shooting at my mates, in this situation I'm in the other half-sphere and shooting at those AAs with primary guns. When we clean all the flaks, then I'm going to drop bombs.

 

They don't do that anymore. They go straight to the AA guns and drop their bombs on them. In my last mission,  they dropped 5 bombs on 2 AA units and 3 were completely wasted. Then they went back to base. Talk about anticlimactic after flying there for 20 minutes. 

[-DED-Rapidus]

Thanks for the answers, we will analyze how to make the choice of targets for AI more "human". 

[Sybreed]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:02 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Thanks for the answers, we will analyze how to make the choice of targets for AI more "human". 

thank you for looking into it. If we can help in any way we'll be glad to.

[AcidBath]

The latest addition to Flying Circus, the Bréguet 14, uses a bomber AI model (e.g Ju 87), while the previously released Airco D.4, which is a WWI bomber that has a greater payload, uses a fighter AI model (e.g. Me Bf 109).  Since the Bréguet 14 sets the proper precedence for WWI bomber AI behavior, please change the AI of the Airco D.4 to also use the WWI bomber AI that the Bréguet 14 uses  Two prior issues addressing this change are in recently made posts, I have linked them here and here.  Thanks for your attention and hoping to see this change made soon.

Edited November 5, 2021 by AcidBath

[AcidBath]

Hmmm, messed up on something which made a (now deleted) duplicate post.  Sorry there.

Edited November 5, 2021 by AcidBath

[JG4_Moltke1871]

While my Bomber Career on Kuban: Some AI mates can’t follow the speed of formation while retreat because they now close the Bomb doors ?

[-DED-Rapidus]

@JG4_Moltke1871, I'm sorry, but I didn't understand anything. More details are needed for analysis, career on what type of aircraft, what phase in the career, airfield. The easiest way is to record a track with a problem, archive it and provide it to me.

[Noisemaker]

Brief description:  Comrades failing to uphold their duties to the Motherland
Detailed description, conditions:  2 members of a U2/Po-2 flight fail to release weapons despite making multiple attack runs on a target.  All other flight members released weapons.  Weapons were mixed bombs and rockets or just bombs.
Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):  Attached Mission.gen and Track.
Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):  Irrelevant.

_gen.Mission.zip career-16-Tikhon Mikhailov-1942.2021-11-17_15-49-00_00.trk.zip

[Stonehouse]

I was asked to link this post over here so it is more visible to the dev team. It's nothing to do with autopilot however it is to do with AI wingmen not engaging enemy aircraft as they are supposed to. Linked post includes a mission and 2 tacview acmi's. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Stonehouse

[-DED-Rapidus]

@Stonehouse, thank you, I moved the topic to the appropriate section.

[echo-2]

Bots see through trees (and grass), Tank Crew

[Noisemaker]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, Noisemaker said:

Brief description:  Comrades failing to uphold their duties to the Motherland
Detailed description, conditions:  2 members of a U2/Po-2 flight fail to release weapons despite making multiple attack runs on a target.  All other flight members released weapons.  Weapons were mixed bombs and rockets or just bombs.
Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):  Attached Mission.gen and Track.
Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):  Irrelevant.

_gen.Mission.zip 427.24 kB · 0 downloads career-16-Tikhon Mikhailov-1942.2021-11-17_15-49-00_00.trk.zip 2.76 MB · 0 downloads

Update to the above:

 

Apparently this bug occurs after the player attacks the target and the mission accomplished message is displayed.  I flew 2 flights today as flight lead, and can confirm that if I attack the target, no other plane will release weapons (despite making attack runs) after my attack.

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

7 hours ago, echo-2 said:

Bots see through trees (and grass), Tank Crew

As far as I remember, AI units (tanks) are not targeting you when there is 50 meters of forest between you and AI unit.  

[-DED-Rapidus]

On 11/26/2021 at 2:46 AM, Noisemaker said:

Apparently this bug occurs after the player attacks the target and the mission accomplished message is displayed.  I flew 2 flights today as flight lead, and can confirm that if I attack the target, no other plane will release weapons (despite making attack runs) after my attack.

Thanks for the clarification, I will check this point in detail.

[Leon_Portier]

Brief description: Gunner ignores orders if Sd.Kfz. 10/5 Flak 38 (20mm) are engaged
Detailed description, conditions:
Gunner refuses to attack the target specified by the commander and attacks different targets instead. He also changes ammo type to non ordered ones, for example I order him to use APHE against the Sd.Ffz, but he uses HE instead.
How to reproduce:
1.) In quick mission editor, set up tank squad battle. Have 1 player tank (I tested with KV-1s and M4A2) and 4x Sd.Kfz. 10/5 as enemys.

2.) Start battle, as commander, point at an enemy and give the order 'Attack the Target'

3.) Observe gunner attacking different target, usually closest one instead. Gunner also might shake the turret left and right.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

Demonstration, note that the gunner doesn't switch target on order, or attacks non ordered targets.

 

Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):

Game version 4.701

Edited December 9, 2021 by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

[schurem]

Anybody else notice the AI pushing negative G in a rather unrealistic fashion? I had it set to "Random" skill in the QMB, and the 109 kept showing his belly, trying to push away. I rolled and followed easily, so it didn't exactly work for him, but it looked hella silly tbh.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, schurem said:

Anybody else notice the AI pushing negative G in a rather unrealistic fashion? I had it set to "Random" skill in the QMB, and the 109 kept showing his belly, trying to push away. I rolled and followed easily, so it didn't exactly work for him, but it looked hella silly tbh.

Yes I saw that done by Russian fighters in career mode several timel. They are not doing it very often, just from time to time.

[Varibraun]

Brief Description: AI Spitfire cuts/kills engine in combat and fails to restart.  Seems to happen fairly often with Spitfire.

 

Detailed Description: In the shared track link below starting around 4:30 Sqn Ldr Guy Dupouy performs a vertical maneuver that cuts his engine at around 5:16 (in an inverted flat spin).  AI never restarts engine.  PWCG generated mission.

 

Track link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_k-R7MiJ7jO6YMd2g7TGXy0h26JHXIUO/view?usp=sharing

 

Screenshot of engine failure (beautiful clouds too!):

Edited December 17, 2021 by Varibraun

[-DED-Rapidus]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:38 AM, Varibraun said:

Brief Description: AI Spitfire cuts/kills engine in combat and fails to restart.  Seems to happen fairly often with Spitfire.

 

Detailed Description: In the shared track link below starting around 4:30 Sqn Ldr Guy Dupouy performs a vertical maneuver that cuts his engine at around 5:16 (in an inverted flat spin).  AI never restarts engine.  PWCG generated mission.

The archive does not have the folder Aces of the Rhine 1944-11-26.2021-12-16_20-15-35_00, the folder contains the mission and the file of the player's camera position during track recording.

[Varibraun]

12 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

The archive does not have the folder Aces of the Rhine 1944-11-26.2021-12-16_20-15-35_00, the folder contains the mission and the file of the player's camera position during track recording.

 

Thank you Rapidus for trying, I apologize for giving you unnecessary work with all you have on your plate...I clearly need to find a quick tutorial on how to post the information you need.  This one may have now been deleted, but I will check.  I will also check in with @PatrickAWlson to see if his "report error" feature in PWCG produces the a .zip file with all necessary information for your analysis since that may be the easiest way for me to get it to you in the future.

 

I think this issue is occurring fairly frequently with the Spitfire, so I should be able to recreate and then get you what you need.

 

Finally, thank you again for your work here.  I hope you and your family have a very nice holiday with a little time off for you! 

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG "report error" grabs what PWCG needs to  debug, so mission and log files would be included.  Don't see any of that helping.  The AI has to fly the plane.  There is nothing in a mission file that tells the AI to turn off the engine in mid flight.  Can't think of any event recorded in the log files that would explain that either.

 

[Varibraun]

34 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

PWCG "report error" grabs what PWCG needs to  debug, so mission and log files would be included.  Don't see any of that helping.  The AI has to fly the plane.  There is nothing in a mission file that tells the AI to turn off the engine in mid flight.  Can't think of any event recorded in the log files that would explain that either.

 

Thanks Pat, I appreciate the quick reply.  As I think you already know, all of the stuff you software engineers do might as well be magic as far as I am concerned.  I will find a "monkey see monkey do" instruction in the forums to get @-DED-Rapidus what he needs to keep our AI Spitfires in the air.  FYI - I didn't think it was a PWCG issue, just was looking for a shortcut if you thought that would have the track info he needs for AI analysis. 

 

Finally - Merry Christmas to you and your family too, can't thank you enough for all of the work this year!  

[RedeyeStorm]

In a previous update the problem of friendly fighters firing through you to get an enemy fighter was fixed. I ammsorry to report that the issue is back. Flying a Lightning career I got shot up by friendly planes in two consecutive missions.

[Varibraun]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:51 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

The archive does not have the folder Aces of the Rhine 1944-11-26.2021-12-16_20-15-35_00, the folder contains the mission and the file of the player's camera position during track recording.

 

Hi Rapidus - Does the attached folder now have what you need to see the Spitfire AI cut/kill his engine reported above?  Thanks! 

aces of the rhine 1944-11-26.2021-12-16_20-15-35_00.zip

[-DED-Rapidus]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:00 PM, schurem said:

Anybody else notice the AI pushing negative G in a rather unrealistic fashion? I had it set to "Random" skill in the QMB, and the 109 kept showing his belly, trying to push away. I rolled and followed easily, so it didn't exactly work for him, but it looked hella silly tbh.

Yes, we know about this "feature" of artificial intelligence, everything will be fixed in a complete revision of artificial intelligence.

On 1/2/2022 at 10:10 AM, Varibraun said:

Hi Rapidus - Does the attached folder now have what you need to see the Spitfire AI cut/kill his engine reported above?  Thanks! 

Yes thank you very much.

[Varibraun]

4 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

Yes thank you very much.

 

Thank you and Merry Christmas!  I hope you have some time off 

[schurem]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:50 AM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Yes, we know about this "feature" of artificial intelligence, everything will be fixed in a complete revision of artificial intelligence.

Yes thank you very much.

Whoa, that is great news!

[Varibraun]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:50 AM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Yes thank you very much.

 

Here are a couple more AI Spitfires killing their engine (track attached):

 

Shipwash @ 00:25

 

Staunton @ 2:25

 

aces of the rhine 1945-03-10.2022-01-15_16-24-06_00.zip

[-DED-Rapidus]

@Varibraun, i need the "aces of the rhine 1945-03-10.2022-01-15_16-24-06_00.trk" file, the track won't open without this file.

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Varibraun, i need the "aces of the rhine 1945-03-10.2022-01-15_16-24-06_00.trk" file, the track won't open without this file.

 

Sorry...someday I will get this right on the first try, here it is and thank you:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1txQTEY-5SVSWywszUSj99pgWnbbhyTOx/view?usp=sharing

[Yogiflight]

In career mode, when I fly as flightleader, I order my flight to change formation to V-formation. But my flight only stays in V-formation until we reach the next waypoint, where they change back to echelon right. This happens each waypoint. I would expect my flight to stay in the formation I order them to, until I give them the command for a new formation. At least that is how it works IRL. Soldiers, no matter which rank, do what they are ordered to.

[Plurp]

58 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

In career mode, when I fly as flightleader, I order my flight to change formation to V-formation. But my flight only stays in V-formation until we reach the next waypoint, where they change back to echelon right. This happens each waypoint. I would expect my flight to stay in the formation I order them to, until I give them the command for a new formation. At least that is how it works IRL. Soldiers, no matter which rank, do what they are ordered to.

As the flight leader, in the briefing room map, you can click on the waypoints and change each one to v formation.

[Yogiflight]

10 hours ago, Plurp said:

As the flight leader, in the briefing room map, you can click on the waypoints and change each one to v formation.

Thanks for the info.

Nonetheless, should an order stay even after crossing a waypoint.

[Ghost666]

No.

They are following orders. They were told at mission brief that at this waypoint they should be in whatever formation. So when they get to that waypoint they should try to adopt the briefed formation. Just my opinion. Good luck and have fun Flight Leader. 

[RedeyeStorm]

Well I am with @Yogiflight on this. When I give orders on route they should stick until I tell them otherwise.

[Ghost666]

Yes, I agree just trying to give voice to my AI friends.