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Game version 1.003 discussion

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Post 12 here though not sure it works anymore: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11817-graphic-options-poll/

 

If you drop down from ultra to balanced you'll notice the difference. Just look down around the pit at ultra and then again at balanced. There's a very noticeable grainy film over your eyes at ultra settings. 

 

I did try to drop from ultra to balanced and did not notice grainy film. Maybe with some hardware its more noticiable, I have Nvidia 660ti card and Dell U2414h display?

It should be clear that options for SSAO+Bloom have to be added if people have problems with it.

 

And I think a proper explanation of each preset by the Devs would be usefull and needed. What are the the detailed differences between them?

Edited by Zami

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S!

 

 Well as you look at the file, there are only a few options which could be having options like On/Off. While the workaround worked people could enjoy clear graphics with even the cloud issue gone..

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Exactly. We just want to be able to make some simple amendments using what's already in the config files. People aren't looking for some competitive advantage or are trying to game the game. We just want our game to look as good as possible and the current Dev design choice is actually doing the opposite and is making the game look worse for a lot of people. Like the unlock fiasco this was a poor business decision to have made and needs to be fixed. There literally is no downside to having GUI options for SSAO, bloom, hdr, etc. 

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S!

 

 And as long as there are only those seen in config files, not a problem. For example there could be a small info window popping up, like a tool tip, when you select an option telling what it does. Easier for devs to link those settings to the GUI or later some player hacks it open? Official support vs not so official..I would take the official support. 

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This is very easy to hit attacking plane if it's approaching from the rear.

You need attack from above and aside, starting from 900..1500m, don't sit on bomber's 6 o'clock.

That is the trick.

Haven't killed him in first dive? Climb aside again to the same start attack position in above and aside. And dive again.

Don't hold behind the target.

 

Or

 

You may be a marksman - set convergence to 1000m and kill him by short bursts from stable position in 900..1100m behing him.

Yes, true, but how the AI gunners manage to hit you with marksman accuracy when their plane is doing evasive manoeuvers, banking sharply in every direction, is beyond me...

When they have a stable platform, I think their accuracy is ok, but definitely not when a plane is taking hard evasive actions, and the gunners keep that kind of accuracy!

 

Try it for yourself by taking over a gunner's position during an attack, when your AI pilot is trying to take evasive actions. I doubt you can hit ANYTHING around, even if it is 50 meters away...

Edited by Alex911

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Are there any log file in this game, I got a couple of ctd just when my stats in SP are given, And I loose my preshious xp points :) Kidding I just think it is annoying .

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I still run your DieBys ...... ;)

S~ Bear,

We'll catch up one day. Maybe a reunion?

Flyby out

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Exactly. We just want to be able to make some simple amendments using what's already in the config files. People aren't looking for some competitive advantage or are trying to game the game. We just want our game to look as good as possible and the current Dev design choice is actually doing the opposite and is making the game look worse for a lot of people. Like the unlock fiasco this was a poor business decision to have made and needs to be fixed. There literally is no downside to having GUI options for SSAO, bloom, hdr, etc. 

 

And we DID had this option but it was cut down to presets for testing pourposes and now that the game is released I thougt it will be easy to go back to the previous functional advanced settings

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It was not cut out for testing purposes, at least according to the developers. According to their announcement it was cut out because 1) they did not want to support people who messed up their settings, and 2) because flight simming is an emotive and competitive arena and it is unfair to give people the means to "cheat" in multiplay.

 

Since neither of these issues is likely to go away, there may be no changes in this area.

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1) is nonsense as I bet they didn't have to support all those people who tweaked the settings using the workaround they just closed. Also do they really think people will struggle with GUI tick boxes with SSAO off, low, medium, high? They really must think we're complete idiots if that's the case. All other PC games rate our intelligence a little higher fortunately. 

 

2) is nonsense as well. They've stated numerous times that single players make up the bulk of the community. Are they trying to make things fair for the poor little AI or something? Why not let single-players make the game look exactly how they want it too? Even with multiplayer allowing users to switch off SSAO, turn down bloom and HDR will not make much of a difference at all. Other things completely outside of their control make for more difference such as a good monitor, top quality stick, track ir, etc. 

 

This is all somebody on the Dev side deciding for all of us how the game we paid for should look and it's not right. They've twice spent time and money making sure of this so they do seem set on it. If we want this to change it's up to us to continue to make our feelings clear on the matter. 

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It was not cut out for testing purposes, at least according to the developers. According to their announcement it was cut out because 1) they did not want to support people who messed up their settings, and 2) because flight simming is an emotive and competitive arena and it is unfair to give people the means to "cheat" in multiplay.

 

Since neither of these issues is likely to go away, there may be no changes in this area.

The main reason was the first one, during early acces they wanted to have reports of actual bugs and not wasting time with reports of people that messed up the settings. So ..testing pourposes it was. Dont be unreasonable  ;)

 

Also from that developer diary : "Note, that current presets are temporary"

Edited by URUAker

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The main reason was the first one, during early acces they wanted to have reports of actual bugs and not wasting time with reports of people that messed up the settings. So ..testing pourposes it was. Dont be unreasonable  ;)

 

Also from that developer diary : "Note, that current presets are temporary"

 

I am not being unreasonable ;) I am simply quoting directly from the developers' statements. You can find them yourself if you want. "Current presets are temporary" simply means that the exact settings of each pre-set will be altered as development proceeds. The only other interpretation that makes sense as English is that they will be removed entirely, which is also not going to happen.

 

We had the same problem of forum members believing what they want to believe, rather than what they are explicitly told, with the unlocks decisions. The developers said quite clearly what they were going to do and then when they did it nearly everyone acted surprised.

 

Personally I agree that having custom settings is a requirement for a modern PC game and I hope that 1CGS will change their mind.

 

I am more concerned about the features that we were explicitly told would be in the SP campaign - historic units, historic awards - which were then cut without, afaik, any explanation, leaving the SP campaign devoid of any human interest linking the missions.

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Lol it was a pun about your knickname. :)

And yes Zak told me that they don´t have plans to change the presets system yet.

But LOFT did say presets were temporary, but didn´t say when were they going to change it.

Right now my PC is really struggling to run BOS so i need the custom settings to squeeze every fps out of the game, once I can run the game with decent fps (even at 1440 * 900 in a 24" monitor) then i will be concerned about the campaign features.

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This is all somebody on the Dev side deciding for all of us how the game we paid for should look and it's not right. They've twice spent time and money making sure of this so they do seem set on it. If we want this to change it's up to us to continue to make our feelings clear on the matter. 

 

No offense, but the idea that they don't have the resources to answer questions about each video option makes a lot more sense than the gibberish you posted here.

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No offense, but the idea that they don't have the resources to answer questions about each video option makes a lot more sense than the gibberish you posted here.

 

Every other pc game with post processing has managed to implement these options. These options aren't hard to understand.  Want to have another run at understanding it all? No offence but you seem to be struggling to keep up here. 

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Every other pc game with post processing has managed to implement these options. These options aren't hard to understand.  Want to have another run at understanding it all? No offence but you seem to be struggling to keep up here. 

 

You got a lot of software customer support experience?  I do.  You'd be amazed at the simple things that people have trouble understanding.

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Understood but when they're tick boxes in the GUI it's not possible to "break" the game. If somebody switches SSAO from off to high and they don't like the effect all they have to do is switch it back to off again. I would hope that this is something any pc gamer can do. The general public might be prone to all sorts of craziness but for somebody who's gone to the trouble of getting a pc for gaming and getting BOS setup on it a few extra graphical options really shouldn't faze them. They can be tucked away in an advanced section so the knuckle draggers don't accidentally touch them even. 

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Understood but when they're tick boxes in the GUI it's not possible to "break" the game. 

 

It has nothing to do with breaking the game, it has to do with having to answer questions from people having problems.  When you develop your own flight sim you'll get to make the same sort of decisions.  In the meantime, you might want to stop making up nutty reasons for these decisions when the stated reasons actually make a lot more sense (even though you don't like them).

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You mean people who unpacked the GTP files and used the cfg backdoor (which worked for many months since the introduction of the presets) all contacted customer support and the devs were so annoyed, that they now just closed this backdoor?

 

I don't know, but seems more likely that they just reacted to the posts discussing this option which just came up a few days ago on the Russian (and then these) forums. Would also fit with their recent decisions regarding time acceleration. People posted here that they use 16x to advance in the campaign, boom next thing you know they reduce it to 2x only. Same deal basically.

 

Also they still have not even added presets to RoF and only offer custom settings. The users there must be exponentially more experienced with basic graphic settings basically every game has noaways.

Edited by Matt

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Also they still have not even added presets to RoF and only offer custom settings. The users there must be exponentially more experienced with basic graphic settings basically every game has noaways.

 

Or their experience with RoF is the reason we now have 3 presets in BoS.

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Yet every other pc game can somehow manage to give their players these options without collapsing under the weight of puzzled and confused people desperately crying out for support. Strange that. 

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Yet every other pc game can somehow manage to give their players these options without collapsing under the weight of puzzled and confused people desperately crying out for support. Strange that. 

 

Actually, the most recently released flight sim (Cliffs of Dover) collapsed pretty quickly.  Strange that...

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You're doing a good job jumping from "conclusion" to "conclusion" and selectively quoting posts.

 

 

Or their experience with RoF is the reason we now have 3 presets in BoS.

Again, nope, simply because they had custom settings and no presets in BoS for the first months, after more than a year of developement and (at BoS early access stage) 4+ years of experience with RoF. Then they changed it to presets on in BoS after a while and still use custom graphics for RoF, even without adding any presets.

 

How can their experience with RoF have anything to do with that in this case.

 

 

Actually, the most recently released flight sim (Cliffs of Dover) collapsed pretty quickly.  Strange that...

Because of custom graphic settings no doubt!

Edited by Matt

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OK, that's 3 times in a row tonight that I've flown a bf-109 escort mission and landed, clicked on Finish, got the 'Waiting for mission results' popup and CRASH!

Bloody annoying!

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Actually, the most recently released flight sim (Cliffs of Dover) collapsed pretty quickly.  Strange that...

 

Because of custom graphic settings? what are you smoking?

 

besides collapse is a subjective view, it was more the rug pulled from under it by the same people funding this project.

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Again, nope, simply because they had custom settings and no presets in BoS for the first months

 

 

Wrong.  BoS has had presets from day 1.  Keep in mind that day 1 was only a few days ago.  Their experience with RoF is that of a live product with lots of customers that need help.  

 

In any case, I get it, you don't like presets.  I don't really like presets.  But I also see why they might feel that they need to do it.  It certainly makes more sense that some crazy BS about the developers wanting to control blah...blah...blah...

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besides collapse is a subjective view, it was more the rug pulled from under it by the same people funding this project.

 

More like the rug was repossessed after multiple warnings of failure to pay the rent ;) but I guess that is a subjective view as well :biggrin:

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Because of custom graphic settings? what are you smoking?

 

I have no idea what caused the collapse, but I did find it pretty funny that he made a point that other games haven't collapsed when the most recent flight sim actually did collapse.

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Actually, the most recently released flight sim (Cliffs of Dover) collapsed pretty quickly.  Strange that...

 

That doesn't make any sense. CloD hardly collapsed due to custom graphic settings. They did a whole heap of other things wrong but not that. Also my point was every other PC game has these options - I'm not restricting this to flight sims. Every type of game out there has these options and they seem to do ok. There's no reason BOS can't do ok too.

 

Also what is more likely to generate requests for support from users - the presence of additional graphical options or officially launching the game without any sort of manual? The devs seem pretty much fine to do one of those things and leave new players checking out stuff on the forum and working things out for themselves to muddle through. These would be the same people that the devs don't think are able to work out standard custom graphic settings. If they're trusting people to get to grips with the game themselves they should trust them to play around with some standard graphic options.

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Some crash diagnostics.

All 3 crashes happened at the 'Waiting for mission results' point BUT the mission stats WHERE added to my totals. The exception is occurring after the data is stored.

A 4th mission (Campaign) succeeded and the difference was that I didn't land. Whether that's a factor I know not.

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Also what is more likely to generate requests for support from users - the presence of additional graphical options or officially launching the game without any sort of manual? The devs seem pretty much fine to do one of those things and leave new players checking out stuff on the forum and working things out for themselves to muddle through. These would be the same people that the devs don't think are able to work out standard custom graphic settings. If they're trusting people to get to grips with the game themselves they should trust them to play around with some standard graphic options.

 

Apples and oranges.  The fact that there is no manual is a pretty good indication that money is very tight.  If they don't have money in the budget for a manual, they definitely don't have money to pay people to respond to lots of questions about graphics settings.  

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Come on... not enough money in the budget for a manual? So they're completely bankrupt right now? Somebody working full time on a manual could have put something together pretty quickly if it was deemed by the devs to be a critical item. Might not have been super detailed like the manuals that ED release with all their planes but it would have at least been a decent quick start guide with all the main info for each airplane, engine running guides, instrument locations, etc. Somebody could have knocked that together in a week or two tops. And they had more than a year to get this done in too. They clearly didn't think it was that critical an item in the grand scheme of things. If the level of support needed to answer queries was so important to them that they decided to spend time & money culling custom graphic settings to save on support surely they would also have invested some time in some kind of a manual to help alleviate a lot of other support queries as well? Helping themselves to lower their burden of support doesn't seem very high on their agenda to me - they seem ok to direct people to the forums for support and graphical settings could easily fall under that category.

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Come on... not enough money in the budget for a manual? So they're completely bankrupt right now? Somebody working full time on a manual could have put something together pretty quickly if it was deemed by the devs to be a critical item. Might not have been super detailed like the manuals that ED release with all their planes but it would have at least been a decent quick start guide with all the main info for each airplane, engine running guides, instrument locations, etc. Somebody could have knocked that together in a week or two tops. And they had more than a year to get this done in too. They clearly didn't think it was that critical an item in the grand scheme of things. If the level of support needed to answer queries was so important to them that they decided to spend time & money culling custom graphic settings to save on support surely they would also have invested some time in some kind of a manual to help alleviate a lot of other support queries as well? Helping themselves to lower their burden of support doesn't seem very high on their agenda to me - they seem ok to direct people to the forums for support and graphical settings could easily fall under that category.

 

No actually the ROF manual which has just been updated yet again, is over 150 pages long took several months to design, write, proofread, create custom images for, and localize into 5 languages and it did cost us a few bucks. However, it is not difficult to navigate the menus and get flying in BOS. Pretty standard stuff and as you pointed out some items were streamlined. What you seem to be looking for is lots of additional information and graphics and stuff that is not absolutely necessary to operate the game and such detailed info and images as witnessed in the ROF manual is quite labor intensive. And with the breakneck development schedule and constant changes to the GUI and code etc. I decided to wait to produce a detailed manual. There are thousands and thousands of users already up and flying with little in the way of support requests for how to operate the sim. The early adopters are already well versed in how this sim works. As we find more customers that may not be that familiar with flight-simming then a manual becomes more important.

 

Compare the ROF manual with any other IL-2 manual and you will see the detail in which we will go into when we do it. BOS is not a study sim like DCS titles so the need for a detailed systems manual is not as urgent.

 

We'll eventually have a detailed user manual on par with the ROF manual, which few people read or print out anyways, but we'll still do it.

 

Jason

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Critics are always righteous and fans who aren't bothered by our decisions are delusional and vice versa. This is why the community it so toxic these days. It's a game guys. The only person who should loose sleep over this game are the people who make it. Lighten up.

 

Jason

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There are thousands and thousands of users already up and flying with little in the way of support requests for how to operate the sim. The early adopters are already well versed in how this sim works. As we find more customers that may not be that familiar with flight-simming then a manual becomes more important.

 

This was actually my point as it was in relation to graphical presets that I brought up the absence of a manual or quick start guide. You trust that people can get up to speed themselves with the game itself which I agree is not massively complex. But at the same time it is a high fidelity flight sim and there's a learning curve. If you trust you users to do that then I would think you could trust us to handle a few extra graphic options to allow us to tweak the game to how we like it. 

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This was actually my point as it was in relation to graphical presets that I brought up the absence of a manual or quick start guide. You trust that people can get up to speed themselves with the game itself which I agree is not massively complex. But at the same time it is a high fidelity flight sim and there's a learning curve. If you trust you users to do that then I would think you could trust us to handle a few extra graphic options to allow us to tweak the game to how we like it. 

 

Well I have been told by several people recently that it isn't a high fidelity sim so I'm confused! Which is it? LOL I've explained clearly why there is no detailed manual yet. Why there is no manual yet has nothing to do with why Loft decided to streamline the graphics options. Please don't try to conflate the two separate issues for the sake of being argumentative.

 

Jason

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I wonder why Battlefield and Call of Duty have advanced graphics options, those companies probably invest more into market research then you spend on this entire game. Also it's probably 50% played by 12 year olds, and still they consider it fine to have graphics settings. :happy:

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Critics are always righteous and fans who aren't bothered by our decisions are delusional and vice versa. This is why the community it so toxic these days. It's a game guys. The only person who should loose sleep over this game are the people who make it. Lighten up.

 

Jason

 

No, it's because a lot of people would apparently rather argue about it than play it.... That's why I read more than I post and try to fly more than I read the forum. Maybe everyone that is so upset will get all their toys soon and go back to playing instead of griping.  :rolleyes:

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