Help when flying Spitfire XIV Fighting AI Ace Level MC 202!

[Weegie]

I'm the world's worst pilot and a terrible shot..........I know it too old and slow

 

Flying the Spit IX I can kick the Foglore's ass every time, if anything too easy, but the XIV the roles are usually reversed

 

I pay attention to flying it co-ordinated, use Boom and Zoom, and try to fight in the vertical as opposed to turning.

 

Rolling onto the bandit rather than turning helps. However I always find I need to turn at some point and then I'm toast, it doesn't bleed airspeed, it haemorrages then below 180 your spam in the can.

 

The Foglore also seems to be almost superhuman as an AI, pulling G, turning and airspeed or as an AI ace is its perfomance credible?

 

Anybody help or should I just give up and take up knitting?

[Lusekofte]

29 minutes ago, Weegie said:

I'm the world's worst pilot and a terrible shot.

Hold your horses. That title I earned after all these years of hard work

AI in this game is quite good in the start of battle. As an enemy, as wingmen not so much. 
my problem is a stiff neck , too little space where my rig is to use the body for looking backwards and VR. Those damn ai knows it and I will be toast if I can’t follow them. They are pretty accurate shooters too. 
Mig you keep at it they will if not fixed start turning and be less aggressive. That is the boring part. Do not feel bad, choose a lesser difficulty that Italian airplane with German quality steel in front is a masterpiece the 205 was probably among top five ww2 fighters

[Dragon1-1]

The Folgore is actually a pretty good turner, and the reason Spit IX works against it is that it's really not hard to outturn damn near anything with it. It would have been a really good fighter overall if the guns were worth a damn. Don't have the XIV, but you need to fly it like a completely different fighter.

[Charon]

I gave this a try.

 

The first attempt I stuck to pure B&Z. The Spit XIV is 70-100kph faster at all altitudes, with a far better climb rate, so if you're disciplined it should be impossible to lose. However, winning in this way is hard. The 202 is maneuverable enough that you'll usually be forced to take deflection shots, and the Spitfire is a very poor platform for that, especially with the c-type wing. With a Mustang I'd feel more comfortable firing longer bursts at difficult presentations, but in the Spitfire ammo just goes so fast.

 

I did eventually bring him down, but it took about 30 minutes of careful work. The strategy I used was basically just repeated high-speed spiral climbs. I stayed on International power (1h: 2600rpm and +9 boost) most of the time, and once I had an altitude advantage would tighten up the turn, aiming to roll inverted over the Macchi and drop onto him as he ran out of energy. You need a decent amount of altitude for this. Too little and you'll pass underneath him. Take your shot, probably a deflection shot, and extend out at high speed. Repeat. If he opts for a Split-S, you can follow, but avoid blacking out. I didn't try to follow him through turns in this fight.

 

The second and third times I stuck to turn-fighting, which you can also win. In the duel this proved the faster way to end the fight, although it might have left me more vulnerable if other planes were about. The Spitfire has a ton of elevator authority and you will bleed all your speed if you abuse it by pulling too hard. However, in a more gentle, sustainable turn at about 200-220mph you do still go around the circle pretty fast, and I was able to slowly out-rate him. I'm not sure how this would have worked against a human opponent.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Charon

[Weegie]

Thank you all, for the advice and assistance, I appreciate the sentiments

 

@Lusekofte so I'm not alone then kind of you to say so

 

@Charon good of you to help a "no hoper" and take the time, I'll try the tatics.

 

In a fight using the Mustang I usually win, although with the poor punch it takes me a while.

 

When duelling with the XIV I too used International power, but with the ocassional foray into emergency when he got on my tail, then I was sometimes able to run away if I caught him early enough on my six.

 

Guess I'll stick at it, intrigued that you were able to turn fight the Foglore in the XIV, obviously I need a lot more patience and practice.

 

Good of you all to offer positive advice and help

[Lusekofte]

3 hours ago, Weegie said:

In a fight using the Mustang I usually win, although with the poor punch it takes me a while.

Flew coop with mates in p 51 and I found those 0,50 cal’s to be very ineffective 

I am really not sure this is correct

Edited October 24, 2023 by Lusekofte

[Weegie]

Not going to argue @Lusekofte I've had the game a long time, but I got more fun out of just learning how to fly, take off and land the various aircraft.

 

Air combat experience is minimal and mostly with a few of the allied aircraft, in comparison to the Spitfire I found the P51's punch a lot weaker although effective. Using the MK IX one hit is usually enough to cripple the Foglore, but with the P51B I needed at least 2 passes.

 

Besides I refer you to the first line of my first post ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

The issue with the .50 Browning is that we lack the Armor Piercing Incendiary ammunition that was widely used by the USAAF.

[Lusekofte]

7 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The issue with the .50 Browning is that we lack the Armor Piercing Incendiary ammunition that was widely used by the USAAF.

Thanks. I just noticing that strafing a train like they did late war with good effect, judging by  gun cam’s   Is totally meaningless in this game

Edited October 24, 2023 by Lusekofte

[ZachariasX]

10 hours ago, Weegie said:

When duelling with the XIV I too used International power, but with the ocassional foray into emergency when he got on my tail, then I was sometimes able to run away if I caught him early enough on my six.

The Mk.XIV is far, far superior to the Folgore. What you cannot do with that Spit is accept a slow speed one circle turn fight. Just don’t. Even the real Griffon Spit14 will struggle at that due to its weight. In the game, the elevator controls of the Spit14 are implemented in a completely bogus way, further nerfing any close in combat ability of the aircraft. Stay fast, stay two circle and stay above him and with your firepower you can make short work of the Folgore. Stay fast. Stay high, the 14 climbs like a rocket. I mean that.

 

But agree, the 14 is no fun the way it is made in this game and bears little resemblance in piloting compared to the real aircraft. Given this misconception is sold twice, equally bogus, that is a tragedy in itself.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I still think the .50 doesnt do enough structural damage.

 

But I still can score 10 kills with a Mustang because of pilot kills. 

 

It is what it is. Lets not derail the topic.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

The Mk.XIV is far, far superior to the Folgore. What you cannot do with that Spit is accept a slow speed one circle turn fight. Just don’t. Even the real Griffon Spit14 will struggle at that due to its weight. In the game, the elevator controls of the Spit14 are implemented in a completely bogus way, further nerfing any close in combat ability of the aircraft. Stay fast, stay two circle and stay above him and with your firepower you can make short work of the Folgore. Stay fast. Stay high, the 14 climbs like a rocket. I mean that.

 

But agree, the 14 is no fun the way it is made in this game and bears little resemblance in piloting compared to the real aircraft. Given this misconception is sold twice, equally bogus, that is a tragedy in itself.

 

Let's please remember forum rule #18. ?

[giftgruen]

Mhmm - never flought a Spit neither a Folgore so far.

However - sounds to me more or less similar to fighting an I16 with a 109F4.

 

I also am a "single player fun flyer" only.

In the beginning of my Me109-fights I also tried to turn with bandids.

Escpecially with I16s this is exactly the wrong way to to it, how I learned in the meanwhile.

 

In the meanwhile no AI I16 will shoot me down in a 109F4 any more ( exception: if I dont see him coming in - but that has nothing to do with the plane type )

 

Just stay patient! You need to know what your strengths are - and about the weakness of the bandit.

 

So - stay fast, keep distance, keep your energy level high. Zoom in only if your energy advantage is big enough.

If you do it right and with patience - he will never even get his guns on you.

 

The rest is simply to get him before running out of ammo. ( maybe easier for a 109F due to 'centric' MG & cannon )

Good deflection shooting practice .-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Weegie]

Closing this out and reporting what worked for me. All the advice was a big help so thank you all.

 

I started with the Foglore both at 3000 meters head on, full fuel in both aircraft. I had the E Wing, mirror and 150 Octane (not that I needed it)

 

As he past I pulled the nose up and commenced a 2 circle fight, IAS around 200mph. As suggested I try to turn outside his circle and stay above him, the big no, no is to haul on the stick, then you loose all your airspeed, the elevator need to be treated very gently. I used my rudder or climbed and rolled to turn, that didn't seem to sacrifice nearly as much airspeed.

 

Then staying above him its a boring rate fight as you both loose height and end up at low altitude, stay patient, wait for the oppotunity to haul him into the sights. Keep the airspeed above 200, if you start to get slow widen the turn or disengage. Flying staight and level or climbing you're almost always guaranteed to outrun him.

 

The entire engagment took me around 20 minutes or a bit more and the whole time I used International Power (2600/+9)

 

The advice was much appreciated and the kindness of response.

 

The XIV is great, but fighting with it requires a completely different technique to the IX.

[Riderocket]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:38 AM, Weegie said:

The Foglore also seems to be almost superhuman as an AI, pulling G, turning and airspeed or as an AI ace is its perfomance credible?

 

The AI uses the same flight model as the player, each plane only has 1 FM

[Weegie]

7 hours ago, Riderocket said:

 

The AI uses the same flight model as the player, each plane only has 1 FM

 

I'm aware that there is only one FM, but thanks for pointing it out.

 

I guess the AI though is able to extract every last ounce of performance from the model at ace level, that only the very best human pilots could.

 

I seen a few comments in the past regarding the Foglore specifically, that at AI ace it can be a challenging opponent, at least initially.

 

I'm now trying to take him on with the XIVe, which, on my first encounters, appears to be slightly higher strung than the XIV.

 

Still having lots of fun

[giftgruen]

Generally, (imho) "duelling 1 vs 1"  is not the only way to play this game, and probably also not the 'correct' one  ( whatever 'correct' means )

Some planes are not done for this and do not shine in 1 vs 1 scenariois.

 

On german side, the Fw190 is such a plane that is not really done for dogfighting.

In my first Fw190 career "trials" I tried to fly my missions with the 190 like I was used to do it with a 109.

I came to the opinion that the 190 is crap. 

 

However - I knew - I must be wrong cause other players love her.

And - well - not the 190 was crappy - it was me

 

A 190 is not a plane to fight single enemy fighters. She is okay - but doesn't really shine.

You need to fly her in a different way - and you need to accept as a pilot that the 'mission scope' is moving with a 190.

Instead of searching single enemy fighters and dogfight them until they are down ( which works well in a 109 )

in a 190 you need to search your advantage, fly "through" the furball, use your firepower and run away after.

No dogfights. No duels. Just killing - and run if you miss.

 

Flown like this, the 190 is a beast. As a dogfighter - she isn't.

 

What I want to say:  Duel situations are only one aspect of fighter usage.

I don't know the Spits all too well, but maybe you miss their "mission scope" ?

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by giftgruen

[vadupleix7]

05.11.2023 в 02:18, Weegie сказал:

 

I'm aware that there is only one FM, but thanks for pointing it out.

 

I guess the AI though is able to extract every last ounce of performance from the model at ace level, that only the very best human pilots could.

 

I seen a few comments in the past regarding the Foglore specifically, that at AI ace it can be a challenging opponent, at least initially.

 

I'm now trying to take him on with the XIVe, which, on my first encounters, appears to be slightly higher strung than the XIV.

 

Still having lots of fun

Firstly, in the Spit14 you should be able to outturn ANY plane piloted by AI, excluding Spitfire V and IX. There's not even the need to aim for specific airspeed or geometry, you can just ride the stall and use rudder accordingly. Hope this gives you some confidence. Do note that Spit14 has the tendency to tighten the turn by itself, so remember to ease the stick after a strong pull.

 

In terms of AI vs human in the same plane, I can easily outturn the same plane piloted by ace AI (try for yourself), both in horizontal and climbing turns. So I'd say that AI does not extract all the capabilities of the airframe.

[ZachariasX]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:18 AM, Weegie said:

I'm now trying to take him on with the XIVe, which, on my first encounters, appears to be slightly higher strung than the XIV.

Just don't give in to temptations and pull the circling AI plane into the sights early. Stay around 180 mph or so and just fly your circle. You will constantly catch up on him. He will fly the smaller circle, being a lighter aircraft, meaning when you catch up, you would end up having him right above your head. Only when you are close you pull to get a firing solution.

 

But given the Spit14 is so much faster and climbs so much better, it is much quicker to climb above him and then dive into his circle. Doing so, you roll into position. This will give you so much excessive energy that you can directly close up to him while pulling him inside your sights. You have to practise a bit to get a sense of how much altitide you need for that as you don't want to pull too many g's while taking a shot at him. At his best turn he'll do anything between 2 and 3 g's, meaning you acn't be too much faster to not exceed 4.5 (or so) g's that don't wear down your pilots fitness. Double speed, four times the g's...

[Barnacles]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:38 PM, Weegie said:

I'm the world's worst pilot and a terrible shot..........I know it too old and slow

 

Flying the Spit IX I can kick the Foglore's ass every time, if anything too easy, but the XIV the roles are usually reversed

 

I pay attention to flying it co-ordinated, use Boom and Zoom, and try to fight in the vertical as opposed to turning.

 

Rolling onto the bandit rather than turning helps. However I always find I need to turn at some point and then I'm toast, it doesn't bleed airspeed, it haemorrages then below 180 your spam in the can.

 

The Foglore also seems to be almost superhuman as an AI, pulling G, turning and airspeed or as an AI ace is its perfomance credible?

 

Anybody help or should I just give up and take up knitting?

Try not taking 100% fuel, at full load the spit xiv is a bit unbalanced, making it harder to turn. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

9 hours ago, vadupleix7 said:

Firstly, in the Spit14 you should be able to outturn ANY plane piloted by AI, excluding Spitfire V and IX. There's not even the need to aim for specific airspeed or geometry, you can just ride the stall and use rudder accordingly. Hope this gives you some confidence. Do note that Spit14 has the tendency to tighten the turn by itself, so remember to ease the stick after a strong pull.

 

What's happening is computerized gimmickry, it's not the Spitfire tightening the turn, it's the pilot training wheels increasing the physical pull on your stick as airspeed drops and elevator forces are relieved.  You can observe the stick beginning to physically moving back as the speed drops below specific values.  That's unfortunately something we're stuck with playing a game, flight control de-synchronization between your flight model and physical stick in certain regions of the envelope, training wheels.   One way to overcome it is practice and find where the limit is for that specific aircraft, than quit pulling your stick too far past that limit in a fight, it can be disrupting and spoil a fight especially in Spits where it happens with sudden and with strong effect, enough to tumble you out of a turn or blow all your airspeed.

[Weegie]

Thank you all for the advice

 

I've got quite a few suggestions now to try

 

@giftgruen That's the conclusion I've come to with the XIV, I'm in the opposite camp, although I've flown the 190 I've only used it briefly for combat, the Spit XIV appears similar to your description, best suited to Boom & Zoom using it's terrific acceleration and climb capability. My idea was initially to fly against AI to get experience on dogfighting 101, as time spent in the PvP environment (with my current skill level), is Spawn_Die_repeat ?

 

@ZachariasX I found using your earlier advice that I could achieve success with the XIV and taking more time is appreciated. Thing is I expected the XIVe to behave identically to the XIV, but it feels even more of a handful. That could be my imagination, I've not tried back to back testing, it could be I just need more familiarization

 

@vadupleix7 I'll give your suggestion a try and flying straight with the XIV enables me to run away easily (unless I've slowed in a turn and given the Foglore a large energy advantage). In a straight line either XIV is a beast, its the turning that kills me, my skill level isn't good enough yet to take snap shots against turn fighter like the Foglore. I'll also try a Quick mission in the same aircraft against ace AI, guess I'm even worse than I thought

 

@Barnacles I saw that somewhere else again with the XIV I'm fine with a fuel load, but I'll certainly try reducing the fuel in the "e" to see if it helps. I read something about fuel in the wing tanks resulting in poor handling and to use around 80% max, I think.

 

@[CPT]Crunch I'll need some time to figure that out, if I ever do, gone above my head for now but I'll try to figure it out.

 

Apart from not being flamed for asking, I also really appreciate your genuine efforts to assist to impart advice and experience

[Irishratticus72]

On 11/6/2023 at 4:06 PM, giftgruen said:

Generally, (imho) "duelling 1 vs 1"  is not the only way to play this game, and probably also not the 'correct' one  ( whatever 'correct' means )

Some planes are not done for this and do not shine in 1 vs 1 scenariois.

 

On german side, the Fw190 is such a plane that is not really done for dogfighting.

In my first Fw190 career "trials" I tried to fly my missions with the 190 like I was used to do it with a 109.

I came to the opinion that the 190 is crap. 

 

However - I knew - I must be wrong cause other players love her.

And - well - not the 190 was crappy - it was me

 

A 190 is not a plane to fight single enemy fighters. She is okay - but doesn't really shine.

You need to fly her in a different way - and you need to accept as a pilot that the 'mission scope' is moving with a 190.

Instead of searching single enemy fighters and dogfight them until they are down ( which works well in a 109 )

in a 190 you need to search your advantage, fly "through" the furball, use your firepower and run away after.

No dogfights. No duels. Just killing - and run if you miss.

 

Flown like this, the 190 is a beast. As a dogfighter - she isn't.

 

What I want to say:  Duel situations are only one aspect of fighter usage.

I don't know the Spits all too well, but maybe you miss their "mission scope" ?

 

109 is a boxing ring master.

190 is a pub carpark master.

[Barnacles]

18 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

What's happening is computerized gimmickry, it's not the Spitfire tightening the turn, it's the pilot training wheels increasing the physical pull on your stick as airspeed drops and elevator forces are relieved.  You can observe the stick beginning to physically moving back as the speed drops below specific values.  That's unfortunately something we're stuck with playing a game, flight control de-synchronization between your flight model and physical stick in certain regions of the envelope, training wheels.   One way to overcome it is practice and find where the limit is for that specific aircraft, than quit pulling your stick too far past that limit in a fight, it can be disrupting and spoil a fight especially in Spits where it happens with sudden and with strong effect, enough to tumble you out of a turn or blow all your airspeed.

In this game they've chosen to model your stick inputs as some stick position simulates a consistent force. It's a design choice and it's not "training wheels". It's just without FFB sticks with variable centring you'll have to make a compromise somewhere. 

So yeah that's what is happening but it's not really objective or fair to imply it's the game being dumbed down, or to represent to a new player that it's some shortfall with 1C's product. No more than having your view to be able to zoom is. We don't generally have 1:1 FFB sticks the same way we don't have true retinal resolution VR headsets with 170 degrees of vision. Somehow the game has to simulate what happens in real life.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Barnacles

[Barnacles]

13 hours ago, Weegie said:

 

 

I saw that somewhere else again with the XIV I'm fine with a fuel load, but I'll certainly try reducing the fuel in the "e" to see if it helps. I read something about fuel in the wing tanks resulting in poor handling and to use around 80% max, I think.

< Yeah, the centre of gravity shifts at different rates, I think the wing tanks will be empty
 

 

I'll need some time to figure that out, if I ever do, gone above my head for now but I'll try to figure it out.

<

What it means is that because WW2 planes do not usually have "powered" control surfaces, at higher speeds the force of the air will start to push the control surfaces back to centre. Different sims simulate this different ways, IL2 has chosen to interpret the amount you deflect your stick as the amount of force you want to apply, DCS for example has a 1:1 position, but in both ways the stick in the 3D cockpit will move without you moving your stick sometimes. 

It's not a "difficulty setting" you can turn off or the game dumbing itself down, it's just they have to simulate it one way or the other.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Barnacles

[Weegie]

@[CPT]Crunch & @Barnacles

 

That's a revelation, I never knew of the different approaches taken with the different sims.

 

It's not intuitive (for me) to have selected physical stick position to equate to virtual stick forces IMHO, seems more logical to equate physical stick position to.........well......virtual stick position.

 

I can understand the decision, but without being aware, as pointed out, it can lead to mystifying behaviour with certain airframes in some situations and is almost certainly responsible for the drastic speed reduction I couldn't understand

 

It would be great if the choice of virtual applied force or virtual stick position could be selected within the game to reflect physical stick position, but probably impractical.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Weegie

[Barnacles]

40 minutes ago, Weegie said:

@[CPT]Crunch & @Barnacles

 

That's a revelation, I never knew of the different approaches taken with the different sims.

 

It's not intuitive (for me) to have selected physical stick position to equate to virtual stick forces IMHO, seems more logical to equate physical stick position to.........well......virtual stick position.

 

I can understand the decision, but without being aware, as pointed out, it can lead to mystifying behaviour with certain airframes in some situations and is almost certainly responsible for the drastic speed reduction I couldn't understand

 

It would be great if the choice of virtual applied force or virtual stick position could be selected within the game to reflect physical stick position, but probably impractical.

I don't know of any game which lets you choose between the two. It would definitely be good to choose. Some people have stick extentions and that probably makes more sense in the 1:1 style that DCS has. Some people have short sticks with strong springs which maybe makes more sense with il2's style. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Barnacles

[ZachariasX]

39 minutes ago, Weegie said:

It would be great if the choice of virtual applied force or virtual stick position could be selected within the game to reflect physical stick position, but probably impractical.

The way they have it now is that with being a bit "elastic" there, you can somewhat simulate the feeling of controls that are not harmonized on a desktop stick that is perfectly harmonized; like in the Spit a very light and responsive elevator, but somewhat hard aileron forces.

[Weegie]

@Barnacles I have 2 sticks, a Real Simulator force stick (akin to the F-16) and a VKB displacement stick with an extension.

 

When flying jets on DCS I always used the force stick but with warbirds it became tiring as there were long periods where the stick had to be held at extreme positions. The VKB dispalcement stick is very light by comparison.

 

Perhaps I should try the force stick with IL2 to see how that works out, knowing the methodolgy that IL2 implemeted into the game

 

Every day a school day, learning all the time, indebted to you all for the insight

[Barnacles]

15 minutes ago, Weegie said:

@Barnacles I have 2 sticks, a Real Simulator force stick (akin to the F-16) and a VKB displacement stick with an extension.

 

When flying jets on DCS I always used the force stick but with warbirds it became tiring as there were long periods where the stick had to be held at extreme positions. The VKB dispalcement stick is very light by comparison.

 

Perhaps I should try the force stick with IL2 to see how that works out, knowing the methodolgy that IL2 implemeted into the game

 

Every day a school day, learning all the time, indebted to you all for the insight

I've never had an FFB stick. Maybe that'll effect the way the sim works? 

[von_Tom]

On 11/6/2023 at 4:06 PM, giftgruen said:

 

I don't know the Spits all too well, but maybe you miss their "mission scope" ?

 

 

This.

 

Personally I fly every fighter as a bboom and zoom fighter.  It's just that some allow slightly more of a turn time before disengaging, and turning sharply is usually reserved for when I'm in trouble.

 

The advantage of the V and IX is that they can turn inside other aircraft with relatively close energy states and it maintains a decent turn rate as that energy state drops.  The XIV does 360 degrees just as fast but at a higher speed and with a larger turning circle.  The turn times do not reflect the turning circumference.

 

This is where it gets tricky because if you try to fly the XIV in a horizontal turn like a V or IX you end up either tightening up the turn (which it was known to do - the stick then has to be pushed forward) or you end up with a  high AOA to drag that heavy nose around and either stall or have to disengage to get energy.

 

The trick with the XIV (my opinion) is to either completely ignore horizontal combat (and I recommend ignoring horizontal combat in all aircraft unless you're stuck with it) or, if you're stuck in that sort of fight, to fly in an elliptical shape around the outside of the enemy's turn then turn in for a shot before repeating.

 

If it doesn't work, disengage and climb for the heavens, then come back.

 

von Tom

 

 

[migmadmarine]

28 minutes ago, Barnacles said:

I've never had an FFB stick. Maybe that'll effect the way the sim works? 

I have a G920 (never actually flown the sim with a spring stick) and it definitely effects some aspects like trim quite distinctly.  Aircraft with adjustable stabilizers are very comfortable to fly as the point of equilibrium shifts to meet the central point of the stick's throw. With most aircraft's trim however inputting trim just moves the neutral feeling point in the stick. So if I need to maintain 1/4 stick forward to keep level flight, and I trim the aircraft, I still need to hold that stick position, but I won't be fighting the stick forces to do it. I probably need to position the stick mount better, this can be a bit uncomfortable for the wrist over time. 

[Weegie]

55 minutes ago, Barnacles said:

I've never had an FFB stick. Maybe that'll effect the way the sim works? 

 

The Real Simulator stick isn't a FFB, it's a "dumb" stick, there is no feedback from the game.

 

It just replaces movment like most sticks, with force. The amount of force required for full scale deflection is adjustable, so you can adjust it to require a strong pull, or a lighter one. It is very accurate, with very little crosstalk between the axes. By that I mean if I pull back on a displacement stick I inadvertantly introduce some input on the roll axes, using the force stick there is hardly any interaction unless you want there to be. But if you need to pull to 100% (or close to it) for an extended period it's quite tiring, even at lower poundages.

 

There is some small movement in the stick, like the F-16 stick it's modelled on.

 

I'll try it later and see how I get on and report back

[Barnacles]

17 minutes ago, Weegie said:

 

The Real Simulator stick isn't a FFB, it's a "dumb" stick, there is no feedback from the game.

 

It just replaces movment like most sticks, with force. The amount of force required for full scale deflection is adjustable, so you can adjust it to require a strong pull, or a lighter one. It is very accurate, with very little crosstalk between the axes. By that I mean if I pull back on a displacement stick I inadvertantly introduce some input on the roll axes, using the force stick there is hardly any interaction unless you want there to be. But if you need to pull to 100% (or close to it) for an extended period it's quite tiring, even at lower poundages.

 

There is some small movement in the stick, like the F-16 stick it's modelled on.

 

I'll try it later and see how I get on and report back

Oh I see. Nevertheless I'd be interested in how it feels.