Spotting

[[DBS]TH0R]

The following values were based off this online calculator: https://pxcalc.com

@1PL-Husar-1Esk your monitor specs give a dot pitch of 0.2316 mm, which is similar to the typical 27" 2560x1440 I've had until recently - with dot pitch of 0.2335 mm.

 

With it, I've found that VR guys almost consistently out spotted me in MP and even when I knew the direction where the contact was, I had a hard time squinting while trying to search for the target myself.

 

Now I am running a 32" of the same resolution - 2560x1440, which has dot pitch of 0.2767 mm. I still have to spend time with it and test how well it compares, but already I find it much easier to spot contacts and keep track of them. This evening I had no trouble eyeballing stuff around me and was first to point out new contacts.

 

For reference, my baseline for pixel size (pitch) is a 24" 1080p screen which has 0.2767 mm. On it, text reading is easy and there is no need for anything than 100% MS Windows scaling.

Edited September 11, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[LColony_Kong]

Would be super great if the devs could implement compensation so that all resolutions get equivalent spotting

[sturmkraehe]

To some extend and while taking note of the now outdated graphics the spotting in IL2 1947 was spot on ...

 

ok, I formulated it for the sake of getting a pun as I know there had been some justified critics towards IL2 1947 spotting (missing Spit wings) but it was not bad at all. It was a not so bad balance between being able to spot and missing out. Spotting competence relied to some good extend on practice. When close enough tracking was no issue.

 

One could dispute if spotting was a tad too easy but what we have now is the extreme opposite. And it is punishing people without proper hardware. And before the point "flight sims are always hardware hungry" is brought up: There is a difference between the need of a joystick for which appropriate joysticks for moderate prices can be purchased and a screen sufficient for spotting as large screens are much more expensive far from moderate.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

There is something that needs a tweak or two with the spotting if people running 1440p screens go to 1080p and lower graphical quality so they can see something. Like you are punished for having good hardware. 

 

I can see contacts with variable success, but the need to wear glasses does not help. A squinting game and that is very tiring. Lowering from 1440p to 1080p and dropping graphical detail helped some, on a 32" screen. 

 

In CloD spotting is pretty much a nice match of playability vs realism. The balance is good, even I run all settings maxed out and native resolution. I can enjoy the game in all it's glory without gimping the SA. No need to degrade visuals so you can see. 

 

 

 

 

 

[[DBS]TH0R]

2 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

There is something that needs a tweak or two with the spotting if people running 1440p screens go to 1080p and lower graphical quality so they can see something. Like you are punished for having good hardware.

 

Resolution alone isn't that important, it is screen size i.e. pixel size that matters. I've flown some more after switching to 32" 1440p from 27" 1440p and so far I've yet to see a downside. My spotting has definitely improved.

 

With this said I would recommend staying clear of 1440p screens on anything less than 30" and sticking with 1080p if running 24" or 27" screens. Else you will hurt your spotting ability.

 

Most of the guys I've seen commenting having no issues are running 40" or 50" TVs or screens. Now I know why.

Edited September 13, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[Hoss]

My old Gateway 24" 1920x1200 1080p monitor gave up the ghost one night playing IL2, next day I found a 32" LG with 2560x1440 at 144hz.  And I can say without a doubt I was amazed at how well I could see things especially other aircraft against the ground moving.  Ground targets were much easier to find too. I don't kill all the visual bells and whistles just to play the game, that would piss me off more than anything else.  I like it to look nice, realistic and as natural as I think it should be.  I do more ground attack anyway, but I don't do it at low altitudes, I'm up in the clouds and look down to see if there are bad guys there.  This monitor is great for that. However, I have turned up my digital vibrance in nvcp, I don't mess with the RGB settings. It does enhance the colors and I can pick the different color of the plane against the ground clutter.  It's default is 50, I have it set to 52, you can go either way with it one or two notches and see which one works for you.  I like the way it pumps up the washed out color of the game.  It's not a mod, so you can go in any server you wish. 

 

Hoss

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by 352nd_Hoss

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

For me it helped a bit when  calibrated the colors of the display and the use of a small program to keep that profile active. IL-2 overrides profiles for some darned reason so necessary. 

[QB.Beno]

@453=Kinninmont

 

If you spent $1000 on a 2k monitor you should also try playing with the monitor settings as they are quite powerful. I havn't played for a while so I'm forgetting some of it but if you crank up the brightness a lot and the contrast a little it helps with spotting a lot. Play with the colours a bit too. My monitor could control gamma too, I would change it on the fly depending if map was overcast or not, winter or summer. I remember spending months playing with setting to find the best set-up for my rig. It is frustrating that there is no perfect settings for all but also it's kinda cool because in real life you had to also find your own way to get an advantage. I never complained much about spotting as I never really struggled with it once I worked it out, only when there was updates which shifted my sweet spot of settings did I struggle to spot, but I always was able to find new settings.

 

Also are you guys named after 453 raaf the famous spitfire sqn? If so I'd love to join if I ever start flying again! No.453 was a great sqn.

[LColony_Kong]

Personally I find it rather baffling that the games scaling algorithm is not scaled based on resolution, as this seems like a fairly obvious problem and it has been complained about for literally years, even before the most recent spotting changes.

 

There are 3 primary resolutions that people play games at these days 1080p, 1440p, and 2160p. So at the very least the scaling should be adjusted via a simple multiplier with 1080p as the baseline. Although I imagine an infinite number of resolutions could be accommodated by simply adjusting the scaling factor by dividing the players resolution by 1080p and then applying that multiple. So if someone is playing at some oddball resolution like 1800p, the game would simply multiply the 1080 scaling at every applicable range by 1.66. So if at 1080p an airplanes dot consists of 4 pixels, it would consist of 8 at 4k and, 5.33 at 1440p.

Edited September 19, 2021 by LColony_Red_Comet

[JG700_Benek]

The game had terrible spotting before the changes now its only very poor :D. Biggest problem is the fact that the background you looking at is not static and the contact does not have contour like in real life -when you look at smth moving it clearly stands out from the background. What we get ingame is all bad for tracking as more shadows  are appearing with more zoom, more/different trees, contact looks different depending on zoom (LOD) or changes colour - all in one if you stop looking at it you pretty much lost it unless it is against the sky or you very much zoomed in. Personally I just laugh on how bad that is the devs should just look how its done in Cliffs of Dover the Tobruk part and copy it.

 

From my experience the best thing you can do to help you is to run HDR on (otherwise you will not see vehicles on the ground or planes over forrest etc.), AA x 8 if you can and shadows either off or extreme, also make sure your head tracking is as smooth as it can be. For the last part I am using open track and PS3 eye cam and I can highly recommend getting latest version of open track and using their driver for PS3 cam and also changing the filter in Open Track for Hamilton. Accela which is mainly used causes stutter if lots of smoothing is used. In game I have camera smothness set to 20.

 

 

[[DBS]TH0R]

@JG700_Benek before the contacts didn't render on wide FOV. At least this isn't a problem any more. If you have a large monitor or TV.

 

Having smooth head tracking is a must, since we're searching for pixels in this sim.

Edited September 19, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@JG700_Benek Will definitely test the new OpenTrack version. Using DelanClip/PS3 Eye/OpenTrack combo. Thanks for the info!

[216th_Jordan]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:49 PM, JG300_Winterz said:

And it's way easier ingame than in real life for me aswell.

 

In many situations it really is, but against the ground there is a problem that small contacts just get swallowed in the pixel mesh. When flying glider IRL I was confused how short the distances were I usually spotted them - not more than a few km. That said spotting a plane against the ground was way easier, even in bad lighting.

 

Only real change that could help here is a major engine upgrade though, low angle ground graphics jitter when moving is a real problem.

[LLv34_Flanker]

1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Only real change that could help here is a major engine upgrade though, low angle ground graphics jitter when moving is a real problem.

Absolutely this. Shimmering, jagged lines and pixelation at range do not help. 

[JG700_Benek]

3 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Will definitely test the new OpenTrack version. Using DelanClip/PS3 Eye/OpenTrack combo. Thanks for the info!

@LLv34_Flanker when you install libraries using Zadig you will have to not use libusb-win32 as it is now not working. Working lib is libusb-K (u need it for webcam to use open track driver) not the one the state one opentrack site.

 

For me the change is night and day in terms of smoothness also check neck displacement in opentrack options if you didnt before . 

Edited September 21, 2021 by JG700_Benek

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Thanks for info. Last time I installed OpenTrack it was an executable. Do I need to uninstall the camera drivers prior usin this new system?

[FTC_Zero]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:20 PM, JG700_Benek said:

@LLv34_Flanker when you install libraries using Zadig you will have to not use libusb-win32 as it is now not working. Working lib is libusb-K (u need it for webcam to use open track driver) not the one the state one opentrack site.

 

For me the change is night and day in terms of smoothness also check neck displacement in opentrack options if you didnt before . 

libusb-win32 does work for me and yes neck displacement makes it feel more natural, I think I have set it to 10cm

[453=Kinninmont]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:14 PM, QB.Beno said:

@453=Kinninmont

 

If you spent $1000 on a 2k monitor you should also try playing with the monitor settings as they are quite powerful. I havn't played for a while so I'm forgetting some of it but if you crank up the brightness a lot and the contrast a little it helps with spotting a lot. Play with the colours a bit too. My monitor could control gamma too, I would change it on the fly depending if map was overcast or not, winter or summer. I remember spending months playing with setting to find the best set-up for my rig. It is frustrating that there is no perfect settings for all but also it's kinda cool because in real life you had to also find your own way to get an advantage. I never complained much about spotting as I never really struggled with it once I worked it out, only when there was updates which shifted my sweet spot of settings did I struggle to spot, but I always was able to find new settings.

 

Also are you guys named after 453 raaf the famous spitfire sqn? If so I'd love to join if I ever start flying again! No.453 was a great sqn.

I have been experimenting with the settings. I have an extremely good monitor. I got the Samsung Odyssey G7 31' with 2k settings but I play it on 1080 for the FPS. It is too bad on my FPS on the 2k monitor settings. I will be getting a new vid card so should be able to play on native 2k settings soon.

 

As for 453. Yes, we are based on the 453 RAAF squadron. We are an Aussie squadron and we also honor a lot of the actual pilots by taking their names as part of our naming structure but I am pretty easy when it comes to callsigns. Kinninmont was a real 453 pilot. 

 

If you are interested, shoot me an email on bridgeburners@live.com

[JG700_Benek]

I can add to the spotting issue one more bad thing, it seems that contacts disappear for 1 sec and reappear. It is happening to the very far barely visible contacs which are displayed as dark grey/black little dot and many times I've seen this dot goes blank and then appear dark again. It is something similar to the Rheinland cities being rendered white only when you look at them (and earlier the trucks which only appeared when zoomed in) and when you not looking they are not being fully rendered. I suspect that there is something similar done to contacts I mean the ones you are not supposed to see are sometimes not rendered which if its true is total crap ?.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

A small report. Flew with a squadmate on Finnish. We have very similar monitors more or less. Difference was that I used native resolution 1440p and he 1080p. There was a furball with multiple planes over a town. Squaddie could spot all 7 planes in it. My maximum was 2! And they were faint. For squadmate clear as day. We had same in game settings and no thing forced thru GPU control panels. 

 

So basically you are either gimped by using native resolution or just not getting it.. ? 

[Diggun]

19 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Difference was that I used native resolution 1440p and he 1080p.

This is a problem I have also noticed, running at native 1440p contacts simply don't appear for me when they are obvious to others at 1080 or in VR. Obviously I'd rather run at native resolution, but it does seem that I'm hamstringing myself by doing so...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

21 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

A small report. Flew with a squadmate on Finnish. We have very similar monitors more or less. Difference was that I used native resolution 1440p and he 1080p. There was a furball with multiple planes over a town. Squaddie could spot all 7 planes in it. My maximum was 2! And they were faint. For squadmate clear as day. We had same in game settings and no thing forced thru GPU control panels. 

 

So basically you are either gimped by using native resolution or just not getting it.. ? 

I'm using native res on my monitor 3440x1440, and almost all of  squad members are  using 1080p , I'm the one usually who spot first long distance contacts when we fly together. 

[Diggun]

5 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I'm using native res on my monitor 3440x1440,

Would you be so kind as to share settings please?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

sur

1 hour ago, Diggun said:

Would you be so kind as to share settings please?

sure , when I be at my desk. 

[Props]

I also run at 1440 resolution on a 27" IPS monitor and do not want to lower it to 1080p, though I have experimented with it and did notice a slight improvement in spotting. 1080p looked Ok, but I really appreciate the higher resolution overall so I just suck it up for now. I've played with a number of setting across the board with my monitor, Nvidia settings, and game settings and feel I have the system set at the best possible settings for spotting with my current equipment. Most of the settings I am using have come from the helpful folks here on forum and I appreciate those inputs.

 

I wasn't going to bring this up, but I have noticed a dip in my ability to discern contacts at a distance since the last update and hotfix. Before I felt I had a pretty good setup and was spotting contacts at some very long distances and especially under me over terrain (which is always difficult). But the last few days since the updates it has been much more difficult. Things look a little bit washed out and distant contacts just aren't there the way they were before. Even closer contacts are harder to see at certain angles where I had no problems before. I suppose I could change some color settings and up the gamma a hair, but my cockpit is already darker than I care for in certain light conditions due to my current gamma and shadow settings. 

 

Maybe my eyes just got worse overnight in my old age;-), but I wonder if it has a little to do with the new lower vis tracer visuals? I admittedly used the old visuals to locate the furballs and individual DFs in the distance and now I can barely see them even up close and personal. Anyone else notice this.

[[DBS]TH0R]

@Props it is small pixel size that is hurting your spotting. I should know as I've been running the same 1440p @27" diagonal size for the last cca 3 years.

 

Now with the same 1440p resolution but enlarged pixel size due to 32" diagonal I can spot for days. Still not easy, as it shouldn't be, but the game is obviously not tailored for small pixel pitch size and cannot compensate for it.

 

With 1440p I've found that you really need to be rested before flying. Meaning that on Friday evening if tired from a long working week your spotting ability is trash.

 

PS: I am also running Samsung G7, like @453=Kinninmont albeit on native resolution since my rig can take it.

Edited September 28, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[FTC_Zero]

I resently upgraded to 2k, but your opinion about 1440p seems all over the place. Is it really so bad running it 1440p instead of 1080p?

 

Spotting was always tricky, but how difficult in comparision i dunno. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by ZeroCrack01

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

9 hours ago, Diggun said:

Would you be so kind as to share settings please?

[KEY = graphics]
	3dhud = 0
	adapter = 0
	bloom_enable = 0
	canopy_ref = 0
	desktop_center = 1
	detail_rt_res = 1024
	draw_distance = 1.00000
	far_blocks = 1
	fps_counter = 1
	fps_limit = 0
	full_height = 1440
	full_width = 3440
	fullscreen = 0
	gamma = 0.90000
	grass_distance = 0.00000
	hdr_enable = 1
	land_anisotropy = 2
	land_detail = 3
	land_tex_lods = 3
	max_cache_res = 1
	max_clouds_quality = 2
	mgpu_compatible = 0
	mirrors = 0
	msaa = 1
	multisampling = 1
	or_ca = 0.00000
	or_dummy = 0
	or_enable = 0
	post_sharpen = 1
	preset = 2
	prop_blur_max_rpm_for_vr = 155
	rescale_target = 1.00000
	shadows_quality = 3
	ssao_enable = 0
	vsync = 0
	win_height = 1440
	win_width = 3440
[END]

 

[[DBS]TH0R]

3 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

I resently upgraded to 2k, but your opinion about 1440p seems all over the place. Is it really so bad running it 1440p instead of 1080p?

 

Spotting was always tricky, but how difficult in comparision i dunno. 

 

It is not the resolution that matters, but the pixel size which is dependent on monitor diagonal size. For example: 24" 1080p screen will have the same pixel size as 32" 1440p one. 1440p on 27" screen equals a significant hit when talking pixel size - which in return makes for worse spotting ability. Sure the game will look sharper. But we're searching for dots here.

 

1440p is the ideal solution nowadays, as you don't have to run the very latest hardware in order to reach the desired performance requirements for 4K i.e. 3840 × 2160.

Edited September 28, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[LColony_Kong]

They could easily fix both the contrast problem and the resolution problems for people not on 1080p or running massive displays at 4k. There should be a scaling multiplier that adjusts the games scaling/lod algorithm by dividing the players resolution by 1080 and then applying that multiple. 

 

The contrast problem, which is mainly due to pix-elation agaisnt the background, could be fixed by coloring contacts over a certain distance with darker colors than a 1 to 1 render would be.

 

 

The reason we dont have contrast in game against the ground is mainly due to the resolution of these games not being high enough to display all the information that the image theoretically is trying to give the player. Instead of a smooth aircraft outline like you would have in real life where we dont see in pixels, the colors of the individual pixels are averaged because they have to fit the given resolution. This means that things blend in alot more than they would IRL for a given set of conditions.

 

 

 

Example: (in order, top image is always the original before I adjusted the pixel colors to be darker. )

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by LColony_Red_Comet

[Diggun]

13 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

24" 1080p screen will have the same pixel size as 32" 1440p one.

This argument is so compelling to me (and something that I simply hadn't considered before), that I've just ordered a 32" 1440p screen to replace my 27" one. This could solve all my spotting woes! 

[Props]

I am aware of the pixel size/density effect on spotting. Back in the day on '46 I was running a 19" CRT (wow that's like ancient history now;-) and ran the game at a lower resolution specifically for spotting and it really paid off online. I have been considering a 32" monitor for a while, wading through all the reviews online, and waiting for one of the good ones to show up at one of the PC stores here in Ecuador as something that large is cost prohibitive to have shipped here. 

 

Yesterday things didn't look so bad and I had a good day in the career I'm currently running so I agree about a good nights rest! 

[[DBS]TH0R]

8 hours ago, Diggun said:

This argument is so compelling to me (and something that I simply hadn't considered before), that I've just ordered a 32" 1440p screen to replace my 27" one. This could solve all my spotting woes! 

 

It sure helped me with spotting. Hope it does the same for you.

 

Just one thing: when comparing diagonal sizes and pixel pitch, if going with ultrawide like 21:9 then 32" won't have the same pixel size as 16:9 32" screen.

 

If in doubt use any of the many available calculators online, such as this one: https://www.pxcalc.com

 

EDIT: 32" is a big step up from 27", so curved screen might be of use. I adopted to it very quickly (G7 has a 1000R curve, which is a lower radius from the usual 1800R).

Edited September 29, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[Diggun]

22 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Hope it does the same for you.

Well, Thor, if you're ever in my neck of the woods I owe you a beer. Or beverage of your choice. Monitor arrived today, and it's night and day in terms of spotting. The single biggest improvement since I stopped playing on a 15' laptop. Thank you so much for your wisdom! 

[[DBS]TH0R]

Happy to read this. You're welcome! ?

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[Roland_HUNter]

Guys...buy a new monitor.
I had a Samsung S22B150N. I couldn't see anything when others could.
I tried every trick, nothing worked for me....
Now I bought a AOC 24G2U5 Monitor, the planes are pierce my eyes I can see the planes even above the forest...and with lower monitor Response time 1-5 ms ....oh my so much easier to react, aim....
500% worth it, to buy a new monitor.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@[DBS]TH0R If you ever go to Britain, make sure to hook up with Diggun. He is one helluva chap! We had a great time with him in Cambridge, time flew past.

 

To the monitors..I am using a Samsung LC32JG5QQUXEN monitor at the moment. Have used AOC before and ASUS ROG Swift. Just so damn hard to determine which 32" to get..

[[DBS]TH0R]

Once this situation finally settles down, and Flying Legends starts again - I definitely plan on going to UK again. Will keep this in mind.

 

I can only recommend Samsung G7 32" with 1000R curve. VA panel (dark blacks) with TN speeds.

Edited October 7, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[Talisman]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:57 PM, [DBS]TH0R said:

Happy to read this. You're welcome! ?

 

 

Has he just had a leak?

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[Lolrawr]

The graphics engine is straight up busted. Not only for planes but for ground units too. They flicker and are hard to ID and sometimes disappear.

I'd rather install malware than boot up this game for an extra second, waste of time squinting at the screen.

 

Buying this game is like buying a car without wheels. Well you got 99% of a car, why are you crying for some rubber? you can't have it all.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Lolrawr