Vive Pro 2 Specs: 5K 120Hz LCD, New 120° Lenses, SteamVR Tracking ($799 headset only, $1399 full kit)

[SCG_Redcloud111]

@SCG_motoadve Performance is bad? What is your rig? I have a 4.8ghz CPU and a 3080. I leave games on Extreme (120ghz) in Vive console, then adjust super sampling between 3100 or up to 3400. (In, MSFS I have to go lower than this.) And I leave Steam Throttling on auto, which means (I think) reprojection always kicks in when needed. Anyway, I have not had any stuttering or hitching in any games except MSFS, which required some work to find the right combination of in game settings, but it didn’t take long. 

[SCG_motoadve]

i7 8700K, @ 5.0ghz ,GTX 2080 Ti, Crosswind pedals, Virpil joystick with extensions, Warthog throttle

[SCG_Redcloud111]

I assumed you did full uninstall of WMR or Pimax software? I also did a clean SteamVR uninstall and reinstall. I can't speak to the 2080ti. I never had one. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

5 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

First tests I am liking it, looks  more alive then HP Reverb G1, unfortunately  IL2 looks a bit weird, hope developers fix it soon.

Performance is terrible though, how do I make it work at 45 FPS? Mine is at Ultra and my PC is not linking it at all.(System in my signature)

Pro 2 has better performance than mixed reality because of a smaller framebuffer needed due to the instant LH tracking, while mixed reality with more latency in tracking requires a larger one so you don't look into the black when turning quickly. So it should perform better. Please look at my sticky thread here, I've added a section on proper installation there. I could also check it out later if required, check WhatsApp 

 

P.s. I've just read the following posts.. It's true though that the 2080ti may be a bit struggling, depending on title and resolution a 3080ti/3090 is up to 40% quicker and a 3080 close to it at up to 30%. Especially at ultra-high resolutions the 3090 for example keeps accelerating away regardless of drag on the performance Autobahn. Well.....most performance tests are done below 4K resolutions, and we're talking of 6K-7K (for example 6600x3300) here, and even at 90Hz - not just at 60Hz like the 8K TVs. We need to remember the dimensions. It might be due to this that your performance breaks in at high resolutions, I'm afraid. <- this is a link. Anyway, let's figure out how to get the best settings until you can snipe a 3000 GPU which are difficult to get due to low stock at the moment. And then later you can upgrade to a 3080 or 3080ti as well, or get a new system, and can really put that performance to use right away!

 

I don't think the CPU matters much as long as it can push enough Hz.

 

I'll change my recommendation to use Motion Compensation later as well. I forgot to consider the large jump the 3000 series had made.

Edited June 12, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

8 hours ago, SCG_redcloud111 said:

@dburne Yeah, my positivity is holding up after a weekend of going through all the major games I play. Across the board, I am consistently just playing, rather than thinking how I can improve the visuals or frame rates, which is something that has plagued me since I began VR with a laptop running a 1060 three years ago. I have also added a wire pulley system (again, thanks to the urging of @SCG_Fenris_Wolf) and, in terms of modding the headset itself, have only added a very thin VR cover, which I reinforced with a bit more cushion on the forehead. Now it provides the proper FOV, fits snug, and doesn’t hurt. My setup means that with standing games I actually find myself totally immersed. I completely restarted NMS because it so good, as well as HLAlyx. And for sims? I can honestly say that I can now even play MSFS 2020 and fly from Biggin Hill, over London, to London City with acceptable frames and enough visual clarity to make it worthwhile. BTW, that game will demonstrate how amazing VR is over the next few years’ hardware increases. I literally spent two hours flying over my boy-hood hometown spotting landmarks. Other sit down games like Squadrons and Elite Dangerous look spectacular with the increased resolution, as well as run smooth. And, again, blacks look good to me and glare not a problem (although in ED, glare is there in the cockpit if you look for it. I believe the brain will filter this out with time.) The one game I haven’t really tested other than to see what the cockpit looks like and what IDing is like (both much better than Pimax) is IL2. But I can see already the flickering is gone that always plagued my Pimax, and the resolution bump is worth it. 

 

Again, the only real requirement now for me to do room scale is to make sure my room is very cool because you will sweat!

 

 

Yeah I hope to be able to test DCS, Alyx, Squadrons,  and Medal of Honor this weekend. I may squeeze in some MSFS 2020 at some point if any time left.

Going to set global res at 150% and work down on resolution in game profile from there till I get smooth 45 fps.

 

I did a 4 versus 4 quick mission last night and occasionally it would dip below 45 and then the artifacting got pretty rough. But that was at 140%- 37772x3772. It was gorgeous though.

Edited June 12, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Redcloud111]

Yeah, I am guessing the target is closer to 3100. I haven’t tested this in Il2, in terms of spotting and IDing, along with frames. 

[dburne]

Nice feature for those like me that prefer other sound solutions.

The Vive Pro headphones can easily be removed and replaced with included caps. Helped lighten it just a little also.

https://www.vive.com/hk/support/vive-pro-hmd/category_howto/removing-the-headset-earphones.html

[dburne]

VIVE Software 2.0.17.3/2.1.17.3 – Beta Release Notes
Released June 12^th 2021

Vive Pro 2

[Firmware]

• Updated firmware to improve device performance and stability

Vive Console

[General]

• Fixed flicking loading scene upon app launch (ex. Mona Lisa)

[Vive Pro 2]

• Enabled “High” option in display setting when using wireless adapter
• Fixed error code URL to correct product page
• Fine-tuned error code 224 mechanism for more cases
  If you are using NV card and still experiencing 224 error code after reduced the plugin monitors, please report here for more support

[Vive Lens]

• Fixed Grip button no function when using remote desktop mode

 

Edit: Be aware it resets your Vive Console settings to default.

Edited June 12, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Redcloud111]

@dburne How does Above and Beyond run on the VP2?

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, SCG_redcloud111 said:

@dburne How does Above and Beyond run on the VP2?

 

Will advise a little later in the day.

 

[dburne]

It appears this new beta update of the Vive software has fixed the flashing screen issue while loading in IL-2.

Also just ran a 4 against 4 quick mission at 80% resolution (3616x3616), it handled it pretty well and was gorgeous.

Will have to check some PWCG campaign flying next.

[Varibraun]

41 minutes ago, dburne said:

it handled it pretty well and was gorgeous.

 

Thanks Don.  I am going to be very interested to see what you think vs. the G2 and how worthwhile you think it would be for those of us who would have to buy the whole setup.  I believe @SCG_Fenris_Wolf felt it was more of a "side-grade," in which case I will just hold my pennies for the next step up from Valve/HP/etc. at what it would cost me.   Thanks to everyone for keeping us updated with your honest impressions here, these are the most important reviews for me!

[dburne]

Ok so seems downsampling at least in DCS is not working properly. For example I set global resolution to default which is like 4kx4k, and reduce the per game resolution to more like 3100x3100 - still get the same bad performance.

However if I reduce the global resolution to like 3100x3100, and leave per game at the same, my performance goes up and I can maintain the min of 45 fps - again at least in DCS. I will have to double check this in IL-2 .

 

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

Thanks Don.  I am going to be very interested to see what you think vs. the G2 and how worthwhile you think it would be for those of us who would have to buy the whole setup.  I believe @SCG_Fenris_Wolf felt it was more of a "side-grade," in which case I will just hold my pennies for the next step up from Valve/HP/etc. at what it would cost me.   Thanks to everyone for keeping us updated with your honest impressions here, these are the most important reviews for me!

 

 

Whilst so far I am liking mine pretty good - I can tell you if one already has the Reverb G2 and would have to buy the whole Vive Pro 2 kit with the LIghthouse tracking, no that would not be worth it.

 

The better fov is nice, the slight increase in clarity is nice but not that much nicer. 

Now if one already has the Lighthouse tracking system like say an Index owner, then yeah may be worth serious consideration. Plus it would be a nice bump in clarity over an Index.  Especially if one also enjoys other VR games like some of us. For this reason I think I am going to be very pleased with the Vive Pro 2. Can take the place of both my Index and Reverb G2.

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Redcloud111]

Don't forget Pimax owners. From 5k+ definite upgrade. 

[dburne]

Looks like I am going to settle in around 3600 per eye for my Vive Pro 2 and IL-2.

It looks just fantastic and I can maintain min of 45 fps Motion Compensation.

DCS is not faring so well, can not run it but around 3000 or so per eye and maintain 45 fps. 

So in DCS it is definitely more a side grade over Reverb G2. Cept the extra fov of the VP2 is nice.

 

Still all in all pleased with the VP2. Hope to get to test some other games later on this evening.

Much more testing to do.

[dburne]

8 hours ago, SCG_redcloud111 said:

@dburne How does Above and Beyond run on the VP2?

 

Ok just spent a little over an hour in Medal of Honor Above and Beyond, started a new campaign. I had just finished one last week so it was still fresh in my mind.

I thought I would try it at the default global SS of 150% (3916x3916 per eye).

This is at Ultimate setting in Vive software and 90 Hz.

 

First the loading screen was a little swimmy - like water ripple running over it, kinda weird.

Once in game though it was fine. Keep in mind I have a beefy rig with a 3090 GPU.

It was indeed gorgeous and I did not seem to have any performance issue, it looked really good.

However not sure I could quantify how much better it was than in my Reverb G2, as it looked really good in it running at it's native 3172x3172 per eye. The little better horizontal FOV was nice. And of course the Lighthouse tracking with Index Knuckles controllers was supreme over the Reverb G2 controllers and tracking.

 

I think I would tell any Reverb G2 owner. If you already have the Lighthouse tracking system and controllers , you might like the Vive Pro 2.

If you had to buy the whole kit, you probably would kick yourself as it is just not a huge improvement in image quality over the Reverb G2, especially for that kind of money.

I do think the sweet spot in my VP2 is a little better than in my Reverb G2.

 

If one already has an Index with the Lighthouse 2.0 system, it is kind of a no brainer. Get the VP2 headset only, and sell the Index headset only.

Or if one is still on first generation like the Oculus CV1 or HTC Vive - then yeah it may be worth the bucks to get the VP2 Kit - but not just for flight sims, in that

case get the Reverb G2. But for the VR enthusiasts that enjoy other made for VR games, the VP2 with Lighthouse is nice.

 

 

[ICDP]

I ordered a VP2 from Amazon using 1 day free delivery. So I spent the past few days getting it setup and did a lot of A + B comparisons against my 8KX. Here are some of the conclusions. For referrence my IPD is 63 as measured by an optician and I also wear prescription glasses for short sightedness. I have no issues wearing my glasses in either the VP2 or the 8KX and the VP2 even has room at the closest eye relief setting.

 

 

What were HTC thinking?
Almost every review of the VP2 I have read says the same thing, get a thinner face foam. Why HTC went with this thick layer of foam is beyond comprehension. I bought a set of various face foams in 6mm, 10mm and 12mm. The 10mm aftermarket foam is perfectly comfortable, blocks out more light and gives a significant increase in both vertical and horizontal FOV. So for the rest of this mini review the thinner after market face pad was used.

Stock VP2 foam
86 VFOV
106 HFOV

VP2 with 10mm Facefoam
96 VFOV
116 HFOV

8KX

98 VFOV

140 HFOV (normal setting)

8KX was at 100% SS in Steam VR and 1 on Render Quality within PiTool settings. Normal Fov was used(140 deg Horiz).

VP2 was set 100% SS in Steam VR and to Ultra (4896x2448, 90Hz) in Vive Console display settings.

I did try increasing SS on both HMDs but overall it did not change the perceived clarity beyond these settings.

 

Comfort vs 8KX
Here the VP2 wins by virtue of it being lighter but really both HMDs are actually very comfortable and the weight distribution is very good. Both feature a very comfortable built in comfort strap that I have had no issues with during proglonged VR gaming. So a minor win for the VP2.

As a test I moved my thin face foam from the 8KX onto the VP2.  This foam has a very nice extended cushioned section that is has a fairly rigid base under the cushion. This extended part rests on top of your forehead and helps keep the weight of the HMD more evenly distributed. I found it fits perfectly on the VP2 and has made a big difference in comfort for me. If you can get one I recommend it as the HFOV and VFOV are still identical to the aftermarket thinner facefoam.

 

You can get one here and if I am selling the 8KX I will be getting a new one for my VP2. **Make sure to chose the 11mm standard versio**n.

https://pimax.com/product/replacement-face-foam-for-the-pimax-vr-comfort-kit/

 

 

IPD Adjustment
Both the VP2 and 8KX have mechanical IPD adjustment dials. The VP2 goes from 57mm - 70.5 mm and allows for very fine and precise adjustments using the mechanical dial.

The 8KX has a much inferior IPD adjustment mechanism that is nowhere near as precise and takes a fair bit of messing with to get it right. IPD range is 60mm - 70mm on the 8KX.

 

Refresh Rate
This VP2 will do 90Hz or 120Hz in native resolution. Though to be honest even top end GPUs will not be able to drive this amount of pixels in any even reasonably demanding game. The Pimax 8KX can drive 90Hz, 75Hz and 60Hz in native resolution and this is a big area the Pimax has an advantage. Getting 60Hz at native resolution without reprojection makes much less demands on your PC and is good enough FPS for many to feel smooth lag free gameplay.

 

SDE
Not a lot in it here, a marginally slight edge to the VP2 and you really have to look for SDE on both HMDs

 

 

Sweet Spot
The sweetspot on both HMDs are quite similar, it does take a small bit of adjusting when you first put either HMD on but I had no issues finding the sweet spot in either HMD. Please be aware that for sweetspot I am only referring to the point where you can look directly ahead and get the image as sharp as it will get with little or no fuss.

 

 

FOV
The Pimax 8KX wins here hands down in actual visible area, it is not even close though this exceptional FoV comes with some very big trade-offs.

* Distortions on the 8KX are always there (maybe the last 10 degrees of the edges) but it can depend on the user how much of a distraction this can be. Some people like myself can live with this and in normal Fov these distortions are reduced significantly. But they are always there to a certain degree.
* The 8KX is very blurry on the periphery of your vision, even when you move your eyes to refocus on the edge of the screens.

Having said that the FoV of the VP2 is perfectly adequate and in fact I would give it a win here and will go into the reason for this below.

 

 

Clarity vs 8KX (I will break clarity down into 2 sections)
In terms of clarity there is little to choose between the two, both give a very nice clear image but the VP2 does have a slightly smoother edge to the pixels though not in a bad way. It helps to give a slight level of anti-aliasing which results in marginally less artifacting on sharp edges.

NOTE: VP2 needs an Nvidia RTX or an AMD 6000 series GPU to allow native resolution. Older generation GPUs will be stuck with upscaling from a smaller resolution. Please bear this in mind before you consider purchasing a VP2 as this will significantly impact image clarity.

 

Edge to Edge Clarity
Before I tried the VP2 I would have said the edge to edge clarity of the 8KX was good, now I would rate it as average at best. To test this I would always look directly at the green monster on the shelf in the Steam VR Home. Then without moving my head I would move my eyes to see where text or objects became obvioulsy blurry.

 

This is where the VP2 wins hands down, it has a significantly bigger area that remains sharp and readable. Using ROV FOV tool I simply looked at the degree markings on the floor during the HFOV test and measured where the text or lines became blurry and unreadable.

 

In the VP2 I could clearly read the 90 degree marking lines and even a bit beyond. I would say around 105% FOV or more is still clearly readable in the VP2, though not as clear as the centre of the view but still readable.

The 8KX by comparison was losing sharpness at 60 deg FoV even though the full FoV was 140 degrees. For me it was so much of a difference it rendered (pardon the pun) the higher FoV in the 8KX less important than I thought it would. So the VP2 has a smaller fov but a much larger percentage of it was clear and readable.

 

Another test I did was load up the Il2 Fw190A3 in VR and check the gauges. Without moving my head I scanned the cockpit with my eye movement only and this doctored screenshot (not through the lense) gives a rough approximation of where the gauges begin to get blurry in the 8KX. The two gauges on the bottom right and bottom left cannot be seen without moving your head in the 8KX. In the VP2 all the gauges are readable without moving your head.

 

NOT THTOUGH THE LENSE SHOT

 

This advantage cannot be understated and I cannot understand how some reviewers say the VP2 has a low edge to edge clarity. It really does show you cannot go by what reviewers say, it is a try before you buy thing wth VR and always will be. Oh no, you can stop reading now if you want

 

Immersion
This is a hard one to pick an outright winner for but I would give the nod to the Pimax 8KX by a small margin and that margin being the extra FoV. Even if the VP2 has much better edge to edge clarity the Pimax does give a better sense of imerssion due to the wider (even if blurrier) FoV and the canted screens giving a marginally more wrapped around effect. Pimax HMDs use canted displays do help give that wrap around feel but they are ultimately a curse because they are a major cause of distortions. In many cases a game requires Parallel Projections enabled in PiTools settings due to double vision caused by canted (angled) displays. This causes massive FPS loss in some games, for excample Elite Dangerous and Half Life Alyx. Thankfully most games work fine wihtout the need for parallel projections.

 

Glare and Godrays
Here the 8KX wins easily , it has almost no Godrays. The VP2 on the otherhand has a lot of them in high contrast areas. In HL2 for example lightbulbs in dark areas will give off noticeable beams that can be distracting. Having said that it is not unbearable and I would not consider it a deal breaker unless all you play are dark games with high contrast scenes. In HL2 it is still more than bearable for example. Though of course others may consider this a deal breaker.

 

Mura
I would have put money on the fact that my 8KX did not suffer from Mura... and I would have lost it. When I did an A B comparison using the outside section of the Steam VR Home I noticed a very slight mura on the 8KX that was obvious when you saw it. The VP2 by comparison was much cleaner and gave no noticeable mura effects. Hoestly it is not a horrible effect in the 8KX but the VP2 only served to demonstrate it existed and when I game it is not a thing that will distract me but the VP2 wins here.

 

 

Colours, contrast and black levels
The colours on the VP2 have a bit more saturation but not to an unrealistic level. Overall I would say the VP2 colours are a bit more vivid and the black levels are a bit better on the VP2. Though neither is going to give you the blacks of an OLED, though the VP2 is better overall... marginally I would say.

 

Audio
This is an area where most if not all reviewers say the VP2 is poor. I have decent headphones at home and I was not expecting much from the VP2 based on the reviews I read. So when I tried the VP2 headphones I was pleasantly surprised that the audio was perfectly fine, not great but certainly not bad either. I much prefer the on ear headphones solution than the off ear ones and I have not tried the Index audio extensively but I have no issues with the audio of the VP2. Though I would expect Index owners to be somewhat disappointed. The 8KX standard off ear audio is simply atrocious and always has been. It was nice to play games with some decent audio and the VP2 wins hands down compared to the 8KX.

 

Tracking
Both HMDs use the Valve Lighthouse tracking system. I have v 1.0 Lighthouses and Vive Index controllers and this is easily the best tracking system for VR. There are no issues with loss of tracking, or with centering etc.

 

 

Software and ease of setup/use
The VP2 software is quite basic and limited if you are used to the PiTools that comes with a Pimax. Though to be honest I believe the Pimax only has such in depth options to compensate for the poor tolerences during fitting of the screens. Having to play around for days to get the Pimax screens adjusted for vertical and horizontal "offset" to reach peak clarity is a pain in the butt. So here is where the Vive software wins, because install and setup was a breeze. Both the Pimax and the VP2 rely on Steam VR, so once you have them setup the functionality is essentially the same. PiTools does allow for some more in depth per game customisations. VP2 wins for play and go, Pimax wins for range of options.

Conclusions
I could go into price of each HMD but let's be honest neither is exactly the budget choice and if you are looking at these then you obvioulsy have money to burn. Even a full Index with lighthouses and controllers will set you back over £900 UK. If you have Lighthouses and Index controllers then overall by a small margin, I would recommend the VP2 over the 8KX.

 

Overall it comes down each individuals personal preferences as to what factors are important but for me the one area the Vp2 simply excels at in comparison to the 8KX is the edge to edge clarity.

 

On paper the Pimax 8KX has a much higher FoV but as I showed above, only 60 - 66 degrees of that FoV is readable compared to around 100 degree of the VP2. For me* this was a moment of clarity (another intended pun) in why I will be using the VP2 as my goto VR Headset.

 

Ultimately there are some wins and losses for each HMD here but my choice is the VP2 purely on edge to edge clarity and audio.  If you hate God rays and like the lower Hz modes on the Pimax then you will be perfectly happy with an 8KX.

 

*Please understand head/face shape is a major factor in VR and cannot be understated.

 

I hope this review is useful to some who are considering a VP2 as their next VR purchase. It is expensive but overall my tests and conslusions are that it is a great HMD for both sims and roomscale VR.

Edited June 15, 2021 by ICDP

[dburne]

Excellent review @ICDP and I agree with most of those points, thanks for all your great feedback.

Also agree on the foam used stock, first thing I did was take that off and put my Kiwi cover on.

I too was surprised at the edge to edge clarity I am getting with the VP2. I find it definitely a little better in that regard than the Reverb G2.

I have spent most of yesterday and today gaming with it. I have now stored away my Reverb G2 and Index Headset in their respective boxes. Which is good as I was getting quite the spaghetti factory of cables going on in my floor here last couple of days with three headsets worth of cabling lol.

 

I think unless something unforeseen happens at this point I am going to be well pleased going back to one headset for all my games with the VP2. 

 

 

[chiliwili69]

On 6/11/2021 at 10:12 PM, dburne said:

Like the Index, the VP2 headset reeks of quality

 

I am glad to see you are happy with the VP2. Congrats.

 

Regarding quality, I think the Index is still a bit above VP2, both use plastic but the Index is less bulky and more compact overall. Also, I find the regulations (IPD, distance to lense) a bit more precise in the Index.

On 6/11/2021 at 10:40 PM, dburne said:

Wow, stunning. It handled it ok but again, not a lot of activity.  One enemy aircraft and some ground targets. I was able to maintain the 45 fps.

 

I don´t understand the above sentence well. You said that "it handled it OK" but later you say you were "able to mantain 45fps".

 

So you were not at 90fps. So you use HTC Motion Compensation. So that is not "OK" at least for me. It introduces many glitches and artifacts,

[chiliwili69]

On 6/10/2021 at 7:17 PM, dburne said:

Edit:

Some interesting info on Vive Pro 2 from HTC:

https://babeltechreviews.com/the-rtx-3070-ti-launch-review-featuring-the-vive-pro-2/5/?amp=1

 

“Motion Compensation is the same as Motion Smoothing. The new lens and display requires our own motion compensation, and VIVE Console is the software that is driving the displays, so motion compensation is built into that. 

 

I think HTC is saying that Motion Compensation does the same job than Motion Smoothing. And later they say "our own", meaning that they use their own technology to do that.

Independently of that I never used any kind of Motion Smoothing techniques with the Index at 80Hz (I didn´t need it since I was 99% of time at 80fps), but now, whne I tried Motion Compesation in IL-2, it is definetely a non-go for my. Many artifacts.

[ICDP]

For some reaosn I get no motion compensation option in mine, even with an RTX 3080.  I assume there are some other performance issue sin IL2 because my VP2 can only get 30 FPS at the same settings my Pimax 8KX was getting 60 FPS.

[chiliwili69]

1 minute ago, ICDP said:

For some reaosn I get no motion compensation option in mine, even with an RTX 3080

 

Try to update 3080 drivers, VP2 firmware and use SteamVR non-beta.

1 minute ago, ICDP said:

For some reaosn I get no motion compensation option in mine, even with an RTX 3080

 

Try to update 3080 drivers, VP2 firmware and use SteamVR non-beta.

[ICDP]

It was so important you quoted it twice ?

 

Thanks Chili

[chiliwili69]

On 6/12/2021 at 4:00 PM, dburne said:

Also just ran a 4 against 4 quick mission at 80% resolution (3616x3616)

 

What number are that?

 

In some previous posts you said 140% was 3772x3772

On 6/12/2021 at 5:57 PM, dburne said:

Plus it would be a nice bump in clarity over an Index.

 

Just to be precise with the words. Even if english is not my native language.

 

The VP2 provides much sharper view of the objects due to the higher resolution panel. You can have a idea of that with the through the lens pictures I took when comparing G2 and Index.

 

But I think the term "clarity" refers more to the quality of the lenses and how they provide a non-blurred, non-aberrated vision of the scene which is displayed in the panels.

Here I think (to my eyes, other may differ) that the Index lenses do a superior job than the VP2 (even you are in the tinny eye box).

10 hours ago, ICDP said:

The Pimax 8KX can drive 90Hz, 75Hz and 60Hz in native resolution and this is a big area the Pimax has an advantage.  Getting 60Hz at native resolution without reprojection makes much less demands on your PC and is good enough FPS for many to feel smooth lag free gameplay.

 

Yes, this is a big advantage. It is a pitty that the VP2 has not a 60, or 75 or 80Hz mode.

10 hours ago, ICDP said:

I cannot understand how some reviewers say the VP2 has a low edge to edge clarity.  It really does show you cannot go by what reviewers say, it is a try before you buy thing wth VR and always will be.

 

This is very true. I remember Ben from Road_to_VR said it has a bad edge-to-edge clarity. Perhaps is up to the geometry of our eye (iris, retina, cornea, etc). I didn´t regret of having got my VP2 on pre-order, so I can judge myself the device for my own preferences.

 

With the G2 it happened a similar thing, some people said it has a bad edge-to-edge clarity but others were fine.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

1 hour ago, ICDP said:

For some reaosn I get no motion compensation option in mine, even with an RTX 3080.  I assume there are some other performance issue sin IL2 because my VP2 can only get 30 FPS at the same settings my Pimax 8KX was getting 60 FPS.

Hmm yeah what Chili said. Also it's important to make sure you have properly wiped everything Pimax-related from the system, from the AppData folder as well, and reinstall SteamVR, removing all its configs like SteamVR.vrsettings as well. 

Redcloud had similar issues and wiping Pimax thoroughly, including registry entries using Geek Uninstaller, solved the challenges he encountered.

 

Edit Addendum: Pimax Experience / PiTool seem to inject a lot of stuff to force and auto-change this and that again. And that vagueness and undocumented injections and forced variables seem to be a problem.

Edited June 14, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I think HTC is saying that Motion Compensation does the same job than Motion Smoothing. And later they say "our own", meaning that they use their own technology to do that.

Independently of that I never used any kind of Motion Smoothing techniques with the Index at 80Hz (I didn´t need it since I was 99% of time at 80fps), but now, whne I tried Motion Compesation in IL-2, it is definetely a non-go for my. Many artifacts.

 

 

That has not been the case for me, either with the Reverb G2 or with the Vive Pro 2. As long as I can maintain the min of 45 fps ( this is crucial). It is when one can't that it gets pretty rough. Steam VR Motion Smoothing does it a little better than HTC Motion Compensation though.

I am not willing to give up so much in the graphics department to be able to maintain 90 fps and no motion compensation.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

3 hours ago, ICDP said:

For some reaosn I get no motion compensation option in mine, even with an RTX 3080.  I assume there are some other performance issue sin IL2 because my VP2 can only get 30 FPS at the same settings my Pimax 8KX was getting 60 FPS.

 

Fwiw, 150% Steam VR resolution which is default for me with the Vive Pro 2 is way to high for IL-2. That is like 3900x3900.

I reduced mine down to around 3300 per eye.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dburne

[ICDP]

Got the motion compensation option working by opting out of Steam VR beta and it reminded my why I hate motion compensation.  Artifacting and distortions/ripple on the prop disk etc.  Totally unusable for me eve at 45 FPS.  Also for some reason 100% SS in Steam VR is 2860x2860 now, it seems to flucutate each time I open the app.  I will stick with 76% which is just above native at 2492x2492 but might try lower to turn of motion compensation.

Edited June 14, 2021 by ICDP

[dburne]

36 minutes ago, ICDP said:

Got the motion compensation option working by opting out of Steam VR beta and it reminded my why I hate motion compensation.  Artifacting and distortions/ripple on the prop disk etc.  Totally unusable for me eve at 45 FPS.  Also for some reason 100% SS in Steam VR is 2860x2860 now, it seems to flucutate each time I open the app.  I will stick with 76% which is just above native at 2492x2492 but might try lower to turn of motion compensation.

 

Odd - Motion Compensation working on my end with Steam VR Beta. I am also running Beta of Vive Console.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Redcloud111]

4 hours ago, ICDP said:

it reminded my why I hate motion compensation.  Artifacting and distortions/ripple on the prop disk etc

Yeah, I have tried it several times with the VP2. Don't like it at all. Too much watery distortions. I would rather have the very slight blur when I turn my head ...

[SCG_motoadve]

Just now, SCG_redcloud111 said:

Yeah, I have tried it several times with the VP2. Don't like it at all. Too much watery distortions. I would rather have the very slight blur when I turn my head ...

Prop is not an issue but when firing nose guns it looks terrible.

I think the problem is 90Hz, I ran my HP Reverb @60Hz, smooth with no reprojection ON.

If I try to ran VP2 without motion compensation , I get lots of ghosting and is not smooth.

[SCG_Redcloud111]

Yeah, you may need a 3080. 

[dburne]

Maybe I am not as sensitive to it as some others I don't know. But I find if I can at least maintain the min of 45 fps for Motion Compensation it is not all that bad to me. If it drop below, yeah it is pretty bad.

Granted I think Steam VR Motion Smoothing does a better job. But if I can set my settings to where I can maintain 45 fps I am ok.

[SCG_motoadve]

18 minutes ago, dburne said:

Maybe I am not as sensitive to it as some others I don't know. But I find if I can at least maintain the min of 45 fps for Motion Compensation it is not all that bad to me. If it drop below, yeah it is pretty bad.

Granted I think Steam VR Motion Smoothing does a better job. But if I can set my settings to where I can maintain 45 fps I am ok.

Its because you have a 3090

[chiliwili69]

38 minutes ago, SCG_redcloud111 said:

Yeah, you may need a 3080

 A 3080 doesn´t solve the problem. At least for me.

31 minutes ago, dburne said:

Granted I think Steam VR Motion Smoothing does a better job

 

When I tried Motion Smoothing in the past I remember the artifacts were more subtle. 

 

Motion compensation is really below SteamVR MS.

 

Try just Kuban novorosik map 4vs4 with some clouds around.

[SCG_Redcloud111]

I mean, I use the VP2 without HTC’s motion compensation. With the 3080, all the games I have tried on Extreme with 3100 to 3400 resolution run very smooth, except for MSFS 2020, which I have to lower the resolution. I am still waiting to see if we can turn off the automatic reprojection. Even when I choose Throttling - Fixed, I still have reprojection. I am hoping this will change at some point.

Edited June 14, 2021 by SCG_redcloud111

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 A 3080 doesn´t solve the problem. At least for me.

 

When I tried Motion Smoothing in the past I remember the artifacts were more subtle. 

 

Motion compensation is really below SteamVR MS.

 

Try just Kuban novorosik map 4vs4 with some clouds around.

 

Yes I already said Vive Motion Compensation is a little below Steam VR Motion Smoothing. 

[dburne]

Gave a try in both IL-2 and DCS with Motion Compensation off.

Seems I get a better experience and as long as maintain 45 fps it is pretty smooth.

Going to leave it off for a bit.

[chiliwili69]

15 hours ago, SCG_redcloud111 said:

With the 3080, all the games I have tried on Extreme with 3100 to 3400 resolution run very smooth, except for MSFS 2020, which I have to lower the resolution.

 

I have only used IL-2 to test VP2. (I have not other VR games in my PC apart from Alyx, but I have not controllers).

 

Yesterday night I was doing another Index vs VP2 testing session of 3 hours and I saw that the Vive Console software updated and also the firmware.

I don´t know if this is the practice or they have changed something but finding the sweetspot is easier now in the VP2. In fact, yesterday was the first time that pass through my mind keeping the VP2, but it is still early to decide.

 

I have seen that the default resolution ( having 100%SteamVR) has been changed from 3092x3092 to 2900x2900. The table is now as below:

 

 

So, at 100% SS SteamVR, the VP2 is less demanding than the G2 at 100%. it is 16.8 million pixels vs 19.5 million pixels.

 

You say you have been using 3100 to 3400, so it means you have been using from 114% to 140% SteamVR.  So it is from from 19.5 to 23 million pixels.

 

If you do that with a 3080 in IL-2 (even with no clouds) you are almost always below 90fps, which produce objects double images (clearly seen in houses or planes).

 

I tried 150% (the recommended HTC resolution) and there is not way to achieve 90fps. (only looking to clear sky).

Then I tried 100% and I was at 90fps most of the time in Lapino Winter 4x4 QMB and no clouds.

But when I put a clouds (only cloudy) then I was too frequently below 90.

 

The visual degradation from 150% to 100% is not noticeable in the center, but edges seems to be a bit more blurry. But difficult to tell objectively.

 

My question to you is: Are you at 90 fps in IL-2?  if yes, what are your setting and scenarios?

 

 

12 hours ago, dburne said:

Seems I get a better experience and as long as maintain 45 fps it is pretty smooth.

 

45fps is not smooth in a 90Hz display. Please, take a look of the edges of the houses and planes when you flight close to them. There is a double image effect telling you that you are losing frames.