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Vive Pro 2 Specs: 5K 120Hz LCD, New 120° Lenses, SteamVR Tracking ($799 headset only, $1399 full kit)


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Spasticus

Link to article about it.

 

I'm curious how this will be for IL2. High res + decent FOV seems nice, but the price is high, no wireless without even more expenses and I was hoping for foveated rendering. Also, how annoying are lighthouses to use? 

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rowdyb00t

I’m still with the Vive pro. Just can’t trade in the OLED for lcd. The color is worth it and with the gear Vr lens mod, it’s hard to beat. 
  The light houses are simple. I’m currently using only one now until I get my new house finished and it works fine. Easy set up. 

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30speed
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Spasticus said:

how annoying are lighthouses to use? 

 

they take up space, that's really the only annoyance. Was using them for my VivePro.

 

Now I'm on G2, no need for light houses, solid inside-out tracking.

 

Vive Focus3 is all-in-one with inside-out tracking, which is great, but $1,400 price tag for the same experience as VivePro2 is a bit of a stretch.

 

The main improvement to G2 is the wider FOV and 250x250 more pixels... the pixels is pixels, i doubt you will notice the difference. But wider FOV = yes, please..

 

Edit:  oh, and no more WMR! Yesss...

 

 

 

Edited by 30speed
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chiliwili69

I have been atteding the ViveCON today, the VivePro2 rumours were true. Specs https://www.vive.com/eu/product/vive-pro2/specs/

 

2448x2448 per eye should be amazing.

LCD panels are OK for me. (Index is quite OK in colors)

FOV is up to 120º. According to HTC they are horizontal. So it should be nice, but Index FOV is about 130...

The freq is 90 or 120Hz, but the 90 is only using wireless adapter.

The audio is the same than previous VivePro, and IMHO they are inferior to the Index headphones.

It works with previous BaseStation 1.0 or 2.0.

The design is like the previous VivePro. (I liked more the sleek design of the new Vive Focus 3!)

 

With all that, I decided to pre-order for 809€ (promo-code 60€ still to be applied).

 

This new device has to be properly tested. If it is better overall than my current Index I will sell the Index.

 

My main concern is how well the DSC is gogin to work to compress all those pixels at 120Hz. My only option is try it myself.

 

Let´s see is Valve go for the Index 2 soon!!!

 

 

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
Posted (edited)

Of course the leaks were true guys, I've told you! :biggrin: The Vive Pro 2 is a direct upgrade to the Index...

 

Resolution 4896x2448 Vs 2880x1600. 

FOV (horizontal) 120° (untested) Vs 108°.

New-gen LCD screens with very poppy colors like G2, and pretty good blacks, and I'm sorry to say that, but the Index LCDs just can't present the same palette especially blacks.

The lenses are to get checked by us critically: No Fresnel lens could keep up with the gearvr lens so far.

Different sound drivers - these I will check very very critically indeed. I don't think they can match Index/G2 speakers. But I know how to tune EQs to get that DB605 roaring.

I've heard from a bird that the compression is completely loss-less. There's a chip in the headset just for that, and it gets compressed already at GPU level. ;)

The Wireless extension I won't get for now, as I've heard that it runs at lower resolution (unconfirmed so far). I wonder what the compression can do regarding this. If there's one that transmits better, I may get one.

 

I'll receive a Vive Pro 2 beginning of June and will put it to the test. Then rate the Pros and Cons against the other headsets without mercy.

 

Interesting times indeed!

 

P.s. Tyriel Wood isn't getting the HMDs so he's been quite salty. At the end of his 1hr+ stream he admitted that, but mentioned he'd" hope to strike a deal with them but they probably prefer somebody else" (quote).

P.p.s. promo code is VIVETASTIC, you'd have to re-order it quickly @chiliwili69 and put it in during ordering process. Many people are still undecided, so the earlier the better.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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chiliwili69
25 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

P.p.s. promo code is VIVETASTIC, you'd have to re-order it quickly @chiliwili69 and put it in during ordering process. Many people are still undecided, so the earlier the better.

 

Thanks, but I pre-ordered directly in the Vive european page and the solicited promo-code was sent through email, but it didn´t work when I used it in the ordering process. I have opened a ticket with support so I suppose they will deduct or reimburse the promo-code.

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

I wish you luck, others have reported similar difficulties!

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dburne
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Spasticus said:

Link to article about it.

 

I'm curious how this will be for IL2. High res + decent FOV seems nice, but the price is high, no wireless without even more expenses and I was hoping for foveated rendering. Also, how annoying are lighthouses to use? 

 

I very recently got the Index kit which has the 2.0 Lighthouses and Knuckles controllers.

I had already planned how I would set up the two cameras in my space and ordered tripods for them.

It was really quite simple to set up and I have not touched them since. Thankfully they do not use USB ports just simply plug into a wall outlet which is nice.

 

Granted I really like the simplicity of inside/out tracking like I had with Rift S and what I have now with Reverb G2, but that Lighthouse tracking is really so superior in every way. No worries on room lighting either. So I use my Reverb G2  for my flight and racing sims, and the Index for those made for VR games that utilize the controllers.

 

Being as I already have the Lighthouse tracking setup, I may end up also getting the Vive Pro 2 headset as well. Have not quite decided on that one yet. Being as there are already a couple in here that have ordered I will likely wait and see what they think about it. 

Edited by dburne
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Jade_Monkey

Pulled the trigger as well.

 

I have the index and I've really been feeling the poor colors and the screen door effect lately, particularly when looking beyond the cockpit into the landscape.

 

I get to keep my lighthouse and controllers and upgrade the headset. Happy camper.

 

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

On compatibility of the wireless module:

 

Screenshot_20210512-091946.thumb.png.cde916fea4a2df65fc3006425ba1b032.png

 

3264x1632 is still larger than the Index' native resolution. So even for that, pretty nice imo.

I hope that'll expand further as well though, and we need a breakout cable to quickly and easily switch between wired and wireless.

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SCG_redcloud111

Thanks to @SCG_Fenris_Wolfbeing on top of all this, I got my order in last night with promo code. Fingers crossed this will be good enough to make me put away my Pimax.

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dburne

Ok I caved... ugh.

Time to finally sell my 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra I reckon.

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

By the way guys, the article is wrong. It states the 120° FOV was diagonal. It is in fact horizontale, and thus has a larger FOV than the Index' 108° horizontal, by around 12° in total. 

 

Alvin Wang is HTC's president. Most of the English press got that wrong.

 

So, to put it into perspective, the Vive Pro 2 should feature around 140 to 145° FOV diagonal (assuming we got 90° vertically). 

 

 

Why they didn't market that number, only they know.... :coffee:

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dburne
28 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

By the way guys, the article is wrong. It states the 120° FOV was diagonal. It is in fact horizontale, and thus has a larger FOV than the Index' 108° horizontal, by around 12° in total. 

 

Alvin Wang is HTC's president. Most of the English press got that wrong.

 

So, to put it into perspective, the Vive Pro 2 should feature around 140 to 145° FOV diagonal (assuming we got 90° vertically). 

 

 

Why they didn't market that number, only they know.... :coffee:

 

👍

Even better.

Hoping this unit can replace my Reverb G2 and I can be rid of those pesky nuances of WMR.

I already have the great Lighthouse 2.0 system from my Index.

Going back to one headset is appealing for sure.

 

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coconut
2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

So, to put it into perspective, the Vive Pro 2 should feature around 140 to 145° FOV diagonal (assuming we got 90° vertically). 

No. It would give you a diagonal FOV of 126.87 degrees.

2.0 * deg(atan(hyp(tan(0.5 * rad 90.0), tan(0.5 * rad 120.0))))

 

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Dagwoodyt
2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

👍

Even better.

Hoping this unit can replace my Reverb G2 and I can be rid of those pesky nuances of WMR.

I already have the great Lighthouse 2.0 system from my Index.

Going back to one headset is appealing for sure.

 

I am tempted to pre-order but am stuck with a 1080 Ti and i7 6800k. So it looks to me like I would not get any benefit from the Vive Pro 2. My experiences using WMR with both flavors of the Samsung O were frustrating so the fact that the VP2 uses lighthouses is a definite plus.

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chiliwili69
3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It states the 120° FOV was diagonal. It is in fact horizontale, and thus has a larger FOV than the Index' 108° horizontal, by around 12° in total.

 

I would not keep my expectations too high. FOV is a very controversial thing and depends of face shape. You really don´t know that until you tried.

 

My personal experience with the previous VivePro (here) was not perfect and saw that a good portion of what is was rendered was not visible. I hope that the VivePro2 will not suffer the same.

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chiliwili69
On 5/12/2021 at 12:41 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I've heard from a bird that the compression is completely loss-less

 

Theoretically you loss, but for the human eye is visually loss-less. And thats the reason why it need much less space the image. 

As per what I read, the DSC compression algorithm subsample with the color depth of the images (normlly it is 8 bit per RGB color in computer graphics and VR). I dind´t know it is wisely used in phones, TVs etc.

If this really reduce the load of GPUs, I really don´t know why nobody have use it before in VR so we could use lower GPUs in top HMDs. This Nvidia blog is just from last September.

It is amazing what the DSC does, from the NVIDIA blog sample here an original image of 24 bits per pixel to a DSC compressed 8 bits per pixel.

The bottom image needs 3 times less of space or bandwidth.

24bpp_NoCompress-1.png.37043e41c985ef979102bcd4d7df5ad2.png

 

out_8bpp_3_1compress-1.png.e1661fc1589c34beb78fb1523789b0d4.png

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
Posted (edited)

If I'd say now my jaw didn't drop to the floor getting to know this I'd be lying. Thanks for the information @chiliwili69!

1 hour ago, coconut said:

No. It would give you a diagonal FOV of 126.87 degrees.




2.0 * deg(atan(hyp(tan(0.5 * rad 90.0), tan(0.5 * rad 120.0))))

 

I didn't calculate, thanks. :lol: We can just speculate, as chili said, all we know is the FOV horizontally is 120°.  We don't know the vertical. That'd be interesting to know too... The lenses seemed spherical, but does the distance add more degrees as they are not canted? It should not, right?

 

So then we would possibly go:

 

2.0 * deg(atan(hyp(tan(0.5 * rad 120.0), tan(0.5 * rad 120.0))))

 

What do you think @coconut? I'm on the mobile atm at family meetings, I can't check anything properly myself atm, just guess around until later tonight ;)

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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dburne
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If I'd say now my jaw didn't drop to the floor getting to know this I'd be lying. Thanks for the information @chiliwili69!

I didn't calculate, thanks. :lol: We can just speculate, as chili said, all we know is the FOV horizontally is 120°.  We don't know the vertical. That'd be interesting to know too... The lenses seemed spherical, but does the distance add more degrees as they are not canted? It should not, right?

 

So then we would possibly go:

 

2.0 * deg(atan(hyp(tan(0.5 * rad 120.0), tan(0.5 * rad 120.0))))

 

What do you think @coconut? I'm on the mobile atm at family meetings, I can't check anything properly myself atm, just guess around until later tonight ;)

 

Vive Pro 2 = 2448x2448 per eye. 4896x2448 overall.

FOV is just listed as up to 120 degrees.

 

https://www.vive.com/us/product/vive-pro2/specs/

Edited by dburne
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6./ZG26_Saker

I pre-ordered but I have no base stations. Will I be fine with 1 2.0 base station for IL2/dcs and do I need to buy a controller to get through setup?

 

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chiliwili69
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Saker said:

Will I be fine with 1 2.0 base station for IL2/dcs and do I need to buy a controller to get through setup?

 

I have been just using only 1 basestation for IL-2 during 2 years with my Index and zero problems at all.

If you really force your neck like an owl then the headset is occluded, but I am not an owl, and the WWII pilots with the tied belts were also not owls.

 

I also have not controllers. You don´t need them for IL-2.

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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6./ZG26_Saker
2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I have been just using only 1 basestation for IL-2 during 2 years with my Index and zero problems at all.

If you really force your neck like an owl then the headset is occluded, but I am not an owl, and the WWII pilots with the tied belts were also not owls.

 

I also have not controllers. You don´t need them for IL-2.

 

Ok, thanks I will try without a controller. I just ordered a single 2.0 base station.

 

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dburne
33 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Saker said:

Ok, thanks I will try without a controller. I just ordered a single 2.0 base station.

 

 

Back when I got my first VR headset - Rift CV1 - that was my line of thinking as well.

Then I decided to give controllers a go, loved them and discovered some way cool made for VR games.

 

Don't get me wrong flight sims are my main love but I do so enjoy the occasional foray into some made for VR games.

But I am retired and have plenty of free time.

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6./ZG26_Saker
4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Back when I got my first VR headset - Rift CV1 - that was my line of thinking as well.

Then I decided to give controllers a go, loved them and discovered some way cool made for VR games.

 

Don't get me wrong flight sims are my main love but I do so enjoy the occasional foray into some made for VR games.

But I am retired and have plenty of free time.

As soon as I read the 2nd sentence I was already going to reply that I don't have time for other games lol.

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coconut
15 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I didn't calculate, thanks. :lol: We can just speculate, as chili said, all we know is the FOV horizontally is 120°.  We don't know the vertical. That'd be interesting to know too... The lenses seemed spherical, but does the distance add more degrees as they are not canted? It should not, right?

The horizontal FOV is combined across both eyes. This is not the case for the vertical FOV. 90 degrees vertical FOV is what I would expect, 100 at most.

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GER_GD

Hello,

how can i get the promo code?

VIVETASTIC is not working ....

 

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
Posted (edited)

Yes, across both eyes. But as they are not canted, hence each eye has to have 120° as well. This is because physically they don't add more FOV across two viewports unless you tilt them.

 

For example, if we consider the right lens, and they are parallel, we'd just get a higher FOV if we drew the point of reference to measure the angle from to the left of the right viewport, towards center of the nose so to speak, which we can't.

 

Mathematically sound at first sight, but not physically. Were basically describing the trick the Index and Pimax headsets used, which this doesn't.

 

The lenses here looked completely spherical in the presentations (which was HTC's standard, always, so the overlap at the nose was always the same as the periphery to the side.

7 minutes ago, GER_GD said:

Hello,

how can i get the promo code?

VIVETASTIC is not working ....

 

It might have changed, you would need to sign up to the newsletter. Best ask on Reddit. :)

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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GER_GD
2 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Yes, across both eyes. But as they are not canted, hence each eye has to have 120° as well. This is because physically they don't add more FOV across two viewports unless you tilt them.

 

For example, if we consider the right lens, and they are parallel, we'd just get a higher FOV if we drew the point of reference to measure the angle from to the left of the right viewport, towards center of the nose so to speak, which we can't.

 

Mathematically sound at first sight, but not physically. Were basically describing the trick the Index and Pimax headsets used, which this doesn't.

 

There lenses here looked completely spherical in the presentations (which was HTC's standard, always, so the overlap at the nose was always the same as the periphery to the side.

It might have changed, you would need to sign up to the newsletter. Best ask on Reddit. :)

Danke!!

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ICDP
Posted (edited)

I just pre-ordered even though I really don't need it.  Order said end of June.

 

I have an 8KX that is perfectly excellent with minimal distortions and good clarity (I was lucky) but I am just sick of Pimax as a company.  I orderd the Deluxe Modular Audio Speakers and they were meant to be ready last year.  Then in Feb I got an email saying "expect tracking soon" and nothing for months.  Now today we were emailed that they have only just entered the testing phase despite being told they had entered the testing phase in January, then April, then... well you get the point.  Pimax as a company are a joke but the hardware is great if you get lucky.

 

The weird thing is I have used VR maybe twice in the past few months.

Edited by ICDP
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Dagwoodyt

"*GeForce® RTX 20 Series (Turing) or AMD Radeon™ 5000 (Navi) generations or newer required for Full Resolution mode."

 

Everyone needs to be aware of certain fine print before getting too excited.

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WIS-Redcoat
Posted (edited)

The new FOV is tempting, but I was more than happy to finally get rid of the base stations setup around the room.  I had two faults (had to RMA both) back in my index days.  I might give this a pass and keep my G2 unless the FOV and HTC clunkiness (I liked my vive pro, but it had its issues) are proven out.  

 

Always good to see new headsets however.

Edited by WIS-Redcoat
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coconut
10 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Yes, across both eyes. But as they are not canted, hence each eye has to have 120° as well. This is because physically they don't add more FOV across two viewports unless you tilt them.

Or unless you shift them to the side, so that the eyes aren't looking straight into the middle of the screen. You can have a 90deg horizontal field of view that you rotate 15 degrees without rotating the screens. The downside is that the far out parts of the screen get a finer angular resolution, where it's not needed.

Personally I don't believe it will have 120deg vertical FOV, all headsets I've heard of seem happy with 90-ish. If that's what HTC were planning they do, surely they would make more noise about it.

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
Posted (edited)

Correct, but not just this, it means one also wouldn't look through the sweetspot anymore and have reduced clarity. So that would not make much sense.

 

Personally I'm hoping for a mix between the 8KX and G2. Focusing on the issues (you can find problems with ANY VR headset atm) : The former had atrociously bad colors, no geometrical stability at all, no presence feeling at all, and the latter a very inefficient distortion profile, confined FOV, and both have software stacks straight out of hell. If the VP2 has the G2's colors and blacks, geometrical stability, feeling of presence like the Cosmos/Index, a proper distortion profile due to the lens design, a 120° H FOV (let vertical be 100 or 110, I'll still be happy), the direct plug'n'play of the Index, and then we add Eye-Relief and the highest native resolution/PPI on the market by far into that equation,... I mean, what's going to challenge that, then it's been a good deal to me. And HTC builds rugged headsets, best built quality of any VR manufacturer, you run them into the wall and they still work. That black/purple turtle comes straight out of Mario Kart.

 

So, fingers crossed this doesn't come with any radical surprises.

 

I'll be critical as always. If it glares at me like the Index you'll get to know.

 

 

P.S. Historically, Vive HMDs (and the Index too) had higher vertical FOV than horizontal. It's save to assume that the vertical FOV will be around 120° as a minimum.

P.P.S. I'll just hop into the HMD FOV Testroom once it's here, then we'll know. 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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dburne

Interestingly whilst my purchase receipt stated my card would not be charged until the headset had shipped, my card was charged in full this morning.

No big deal for me as I have the funds available, just was not expecting it yet.  Pretty sure they stated shipment would be sometime in June.

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chiliwili69
8 hours ago, dburne said:

my card was charged in full this morning.

 

I paid with paypal and the charge was made just two days after purchase.

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dburne
5 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I paid with paypal and the charge was made just two days after purchase.

 

Yeah seems this is related to PayPal, I used it as well. Those that use just credit card direct are paying when it ships.

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chiliwili69
On 5/13/2021 at 6:34 PM, chiliwili69 said:

As per what I read, the DSC compression algorithm subsample with the color depth of the images

 

I have been thinking more about the DSC tech for VR. It seems little is written.

 

The current DisplayPort 14a bandwidth is 25.8 Gbps (bits per second).

 

If we think abou the bandwidth needed for the G2, that is:

 

2160x2160x2= 9.33 Million pixels for both eyes

You have 3 RGB 8-bit colors per pixel, so 24 bit per pixel. That is 24x9.33=224 Million bits

At 90Hz, then you have 224 x 90 = 20.1 Gbps, which is below (but near) the limit of the DP 1.4a used in latest GPU cards.

 

So, if we go to the numbers of the HTC Vive Pro2 we have:

 

2448x2448x2 = 12 Million pixels. Then 24 bits per pixels is  287 million bits, and at 120Hz we have 34.5Gbps which is above the DP 14a limit.

 

So this is the reason why they will use the DSC technology to compress-decompress the image when it is sent from the GPU to the displays of the headset.

 

Using for example a 3:1 compression ratio the requirement will be just 11.5 Gbps which is half the bandwidth required by the G2.

 

This is OK for bandwidths, but my doubt is about the GPU load.

The GPU will need to render the 12 Million pixels at 120Hz. My doubt is if the render is done with 24bit-depth color or with 8bit-depth color.

I understand that it will be done with 8-bit color, otherwise the GPU load will be huge.

 

We still need to see what are the internal supersampling factors used for the VivePRo2 in order to compare the GPU load with the G2 equivalent.

 

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dburne
Posted (edited)

I would imagine for flight sims probably be better to run them at 90 Hz  on the VP2 due to how demanding they are in VR.

Top end rigs might be able to get away with 120 Hz with Motion Smoothing forced on to run at 60 fps.

I am expecting I will end up running 90 Hz with Motion Smoothing on and forced to 45 fps as I do now so I can have some pretty high graphics settings.

Edited by dburne
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