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Valve Index vs Reverb G2, my view (with through the lens pictures)


chiliwili69
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Well guys, today arrived my G2 after a long wait (pre-order 7th-July) but also a lot of reading before along the year.

 

I already tested the G1 on the summer of 2019 and decided to keep the Index for a number of reasons shown here.

 

My expectations was to have a device with the same resolution at the center but a better sweet spot than G1 (image don´t blurr when looking to the edges), a bit more FOV than G1, same audio than Index, etc, etc. And also a heavy load to my GPU (1080Ti) due to the new default resolution of the G2 (at 100% you move 19.5 million pixels).

 

I have been playing at 100% for an hour with all kind of QMB (Spit, P-51, Albatros) with no clouds and just FXAAx2 which doesnt load GPU. The fps varies from 60 to 90 fps depending of where I was looking for. But my interest was not in the fps (this is solvable by a better GPU), my interest was on the overall view of FOV, sweetspot and comfort.

 

FOV: I notice a lower FOV, this is a bad thing. It is really noticeable. Both vertically and horizontally. I am really missing the Index view here.

Sweetspot: It improved from the G1, but it is still not comparable to the Index. This is a bad thing. It is really noticeable. This is really a pitty.

Comfort: It is really lighter, and there is less weight on the cheeks, but in order to get the maximum FOV I forced it a bit more and then it start to be less confortable. Here I miss the regulation of distance to the lenses of the Index.

Audio: It is as good as the Index. Which is more than enough for me.

 

The visual in the center is very good, crystal clear. But I was expecting better FOV and sweetspot.

 

On the performance side, the Index has an 80Hz mode, which is quite good (I have been always using the 80Hz mode), so it is less demanding for CPU and obiously for GPU.

 

Keeping the G2 I will acquire a better GPU, but keeping teh Index I will enjoy a better FOV and sweetspot, although the comfort is not perfect (I did a wheightcompesantion). And with the Index I have not to upgrade the GPU.

 

It is not going to be as obvious as I thought. Need to think and test more.

 

Edited: Here I wanted to show you the lenses size difference between Index and Reverb, which I think it is a factor influencing the sweetspot and FOV. (lenses technology in theory are both from Valve).

You will also see that the G2 has more foam surface resting in your face, which distribute the pressure better.

Index-G2.thumb.jpg.b56ab2618263771d0a76074098df8c0e.jpg

 

Edited: I took some pictures through the lens using Index (216%) and G2 (100%) which is 19.5Mpixels for both. All settings maxed out with FXAAx2, no SSAO, no HDR.

Also compared with the resolution of FullHD and 4K monitor.

 

B25_combo.png.f94ca49a1ed26f1f9191c9d89dbfd786.png

 

b-25-cabin-combo.png.b5b1f4f8a949ea53cc340ab4dbf5db81.png

 

452734714_IL-2combo.thumb.png.1dfa162decc1093fe003e672281f3dbf.png

 

IL-2cabin_combo.thumb.png.6d6b540cedab37dc965c5ce98ec948a0.png

 

TrainStation_combo.thumb.png.2fd0546865102d9ccc289227465c0957.png

 

You can download the native pictures from here.

Edited by chiliwili69
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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

Thanks for your impression,

 

I have modded the G2 to be closer eye-to-lens-wise, so here's my updated add-on to it:

 

The FOV is almost as large as the Index' but doesn't beat it.

The G2's sweetspot (clarity) is larger than without mod. 

The Comfort, it's lighter, but it lacks the eye-relief. Less comfortable.

The Audio is just as good as you said, exactly similar to the Index.

 

The G2's screens: Picture quality is much better. The picture is much sharper. The colors pop more. There are no godrays at all (massively oversteered on the Index).

 

Edit: Clarification

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

Well guys, today arrived my G2 after a long wait (pre-order 7th-July) but also a lot of reading before along the year.

 

I already tested the G1 on the summer of 2019 and decided to keep the Index for a number of reasons shown here.

 

My expectations was to have a device with the same resolution at the center but a better sweet spot (image don´t blurr when looking to the edges), a bit more FOV, same audio than Index, etc, etc. And also a heavy load to my GPU (1080Ti) due to the new default resolution of the G2 (at 100% you move 19.5 million pixels).

 

I have been playing at 100% for an hour with all kind of QMB (Spit, P-51, Albatros) with no clouds and just FXAAx2 which doesnt load GPU. The fps varies from 60 to 90 fps depending of were I was looking for. But my interest was not in the fps (this is solvable by a better GPU), my interest was on the overall view of FOV, sweetspot and comfort.

 

FOV: I notice a lower FOV, this is a bad thing. It is really noticeable. Both vertically and horizontally. I am really missing the Index view here.

Sweetspot: It improved from the G1, but it is still not comparable to the Index. This is a bad thing. It is really noticeable. This is really a pitty.

Comfort: It is really lighter, and there is less weight on the cheeks, but in order to get the maximum FOV I forced it a bit more and then it start to be less confortable. Here I miss the regulation of distance to the lenses of the Index.

Audio: It is as good as the Index. Which is more than enough for me.

 

The visual in the center is very good, crystal clear. But I was expecting better FOV and sweetspot.

 

On the performance side, the Index has an 80Hz mode, which is quite good (I have been always using the 80Hz mode), so it is less demanding for CPU and obiously for GPU.

 

Keeping the G2 I will acquire a better GPU, but keeping teh Index I will enjoy a better FOV and sweetspot, although the comfort is not perfect (I did a wheightcompesantion). And with the Index I have not to upgrade the GPU.

 

It is not going to be as obvious as I thought. Need to think and test more.

 

 

 

Not sure why you were expecting better FOV than Index.

It was known G2 would pretty much be the same as G1.

Other than Pimax , Index still has best FOV.

G2 does have a 60 Hz mode, but some don't care for it including me. Yeah it would have been nice if it had an 80 Hz mode.

Edited by dburne
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If you don't mind me asking, what IPD are you at, and do you think the Index would fit glasses? 

 

As a 71mm, size 61 hat, with some epic correction, I'm definitely outside the 95% percentile for most headset ergonomics... 

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10 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I have modded the G2 to be closer eye-to-lens-wise

 

Yes, I saw you did it in the other thread. you said:

 

"I tried it, and it does increase the FOV considerably.

However, I don't like that it's sweatier than the original one. The skin cannot breath as much in this one. 

It's also way more difficult to dial in to the sweetspot. But once there, the clarity is great"

 

Here (other thread comment) when you talk about sweetspot it seems you refer to sweetspot as position of the headset where you get focused image. 

 

But in the comment of this post you refer to sweetspot as clarity. I suposse you refer to the other definition of sweetspot (focused from edge to edge).

 

I will need to do this mod in order to make a correct comparison.

 

I have seen a 3D printing mod for the G2 which is what HP should provide with the G2 for people who want to be closer to the lenses.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4666466

But this is only the plastic thing. I will need to put the foam which will not be as good as the original (which is good, like the Index)

 

But I would like to try the the VR cover from the Odyssey as well, just to test it myself.

10 hours ago, dburne said:

Not sure why you were expecting better FOV than Index.

It was known G2 would pretty much be the same as G1

 

I was not expecting a better FOV than Index, I knew it was lower (I saw tons of videos and chats about that). But I was expecting to be less noticeable vs the Index.

5 hours ago, Voyager said:

If you don't mind me asking, what IPD are you at, and do you think the Index would fit glasses? 

 

As a 71mm, size 61 hat, with some epic correction, I'm definitely outside the 95% percentile for most headset ergonomics... 

 

My IPD is 66mm. And me head is normal. And my face pretty.  

 

The G2 IPD range is 60 to 68.

The Index IPD range is 58 to 70.

 

I don´t wear glasses (only for reading) but not for VR. I have tried my reading glasses with both the G2 and Index and both are OK to be used with glasses since both leaves space enough between the lenses and the eye. In the G2 is fixed (which is bad for non glasses users) and in the Index you can regulate it.

 

But for VR is better to use prescrition lenses adapter.

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I don't have either Reverb flavor, but I had both Odyssey versions and found WMR to be irritating to use. Frequently there would be a glitch at startup so that the cockpit would move with me. By doing just the right head turning motions the error would correct itself but the phenomenon was always annoying. With the Index I have two base stations mounted on my monitor which I consider a much better set up. Only issue is a brief gray out if I accidentally touch the monitor or if the Index needs to update firmware version.

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Once I got worked through the initial nuances of working with WMR and Steam VR, I got the hang of it and so far not having any issue with them with my Reverb G2.

It was quite the learning curve though at least for me.

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Yes, I saw you did it in the other thread. you said:

 

"I tried it, and it does increase the FOV considerably.

However, I don't like that it's sweatier than the original one. The skin cannot breath as much in this one. 

It's also way more difficult to dial in to the sweetspot. But once there, the clarity is great"

 

Here (other thread comment) when you talk about sweetspot it seems you refer to sweetspot as position of the headset where you get focused image. 

 

But in the comment of this post you refer to sweetspot as clarity. I suposse you refer to the other definition of sweetspot (focused from edge to edge).

 

I will need to do this mod in order to make a correct comparison.

 

I have seen a 3D printing mod for the G2 which is what HP should provide with the G2 for people who want to be closer to the lenses.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4666466

But this is only the plastic thing. I will need to put the foam which will not be as good as the original (which is good, like the Index)

 

 

Exactly. I have adopted the imprecise language of the masses who can't tell their toes from their fingers, to have a common, mowled down language.

 

It's hard to dial in the sweetspot: You must adjust the headset more precisely so your pupilles are in the exact location.

 

The sweetspot is larger: The range of clarity to the edge of the lenses is much larger when you rotate your eyeballs in the headset.

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9 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

So what is the visuals like in index vs G2 in actual gameplay in IL-2?

 

Here I will answer regardeless of the GPU one could have. If I keep the G2 I will buy a better GPU for sure, and this fact will not influence my decission. Money is not in the equation.

My comparison will be based just on visuals, not fps (since the fps achieved on G2 are really lower).

I will compare the G2 at 100%, which is 19.5 million pixels. An insane amount of pixels. (I still need to fully understand why they need such a extreme internal supersampling factor over the physical resolution display, it is a factor of 1.5 for each axis.  Perhaps it is due the smaller size of the Valve lenses)

I will compare the Index at 130%, which is 11.7 million pixels. Beyond that it is not worth more SS. (The Index uses a 1.4 factor of internal supersampling over the physical panel)

 

The gauges on the G2 are really really defined, I would say something really close to a 4K monitor. With the Index are less defined, something like a 1080p monitor.

 

The close targets are better defined and identified with the G2, you see more details of the objects. Very far objects are smaller dots but also identfiable. 

 

But all above is when you look in the center of the vision, if you move your eyeballs out of the center of the vision then the bluriness became more apparent in the G2 (samller sweet spot). And this is something will not be solved by the FOV mod.

 

Smaller sweet spot and FOV, makes me to move more the head instead of just move the eyeballs. This is really critical when checking six.

 

Color are also a bit more vivid in the G2, but the colors in the Index are also perfect for me. This is not an aspect that worries me too much.

 

But since an image is 1000 words worth, I will try to take some through the lens pictures this weekend as I used to do.

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17 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Here I will answer regardeless of the GPU one could have. If I keep the G2 I will buy a better GPU for sure, and this fact will not influence my decission. Money is not in the equation.

My comparison will be based just on visuals, not fps (since the fps achieved on G2 are really lower).

I will compare the G2 at 100%, which is 19.5 million pixels. An insane amount of pixels. (I still need to fully understand why they need such a extreme internal supersampling factor over the physical resolution display, it is a factor of 1.5 for each axis.  Perhaps it is due the smaller size of the Valve lenses)

I will compare the Index at 130%, which is 11.7 million pixels. Beyond that it is not worth more SS. (The Index uses a 1.4 factor of internal supersampling over the physical panel)

 

The gauges on the G2 are really really defined, I would say something really close to a 4K monitor. With the Index are less defined, something like a 1080p monitor.

 

The close targets are better defined and identified with the G2, you see more details of the objects. Very far objects are smaller dots but also identfiable. 

 

But all above is when you look in the center of the vision, if you move your eyeballs out of the center of the vision then the bluriness became more apparent in the G2 (samller sweet spot). And this is something will not be solved by the FOV mod.

 

Smaller sweet spot and FOV, makes me to move more the head instead of just move the eyeballs. This is really critical when checking six.

 

Color are also a bit more vivid in the G2, but the colors in the Index are also perfect for me. This is not an aspect that worries me too much.

 

But since an image is 1000 words worth, I will try to take some through the lens pictures this weekend as I used to do.


I keep seeing this "19.5 million pixels" and I'm not getting it. 2160 x 2160 x 2 = 9.3 million and I have to say I thought THAT would bring my 1080ti to its knees. 
The Oculus Q2 is 1832 x 1920 = 3.5 million pixels and its performance on my card was inferior to the G2, despite pushing nearly 60% less pixels, so one might understand my amazement at the G2's performance.
Now I see "19.5 million" and I don't believe it. I don't think 19.5 million pixels are actually being rendered, it has to be some sort of pre-render malarkey. I can see no way in hell a 1080ti could deliver that in my G2, regardless of game settings and/or magical re-projection drivers.

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1 hour ago, J3Hetzer said:

I keep seeing this "19.5 million pixels" and I'm not getting it. 2160 x 2160 x 2 = 9.3 million and I have to say I thought THAT would bring my 1080ti to its knees. 
The Oculus Q2 is 1832 x 1920 = 3.5 million pixels and its performance on my card was inferior to the G2, despite pushing nearly 60% less pixels, so one might understand my amazement at the G2's performance.
Now I see "19.5 million" and I don't believe it. I don't think 19.5 million pixels are actually being rendered, it has to be some sort of pre-render malarkey. I can see no way in hell a 1080ti could deliver that in my G2, regardless of game settings and/or magical re-projection drivers

 

Everything is perfetly logical. No contradictions at all.

 

First at all I will not talk about the Quest2 since it relies on an USB cable to transmit the graphical info and it has to compress-decompress the data. So this might influence in the CPU load and the final result will have worse latencies than other devices using proper DP cables. That´s why I didn´t include the Quest2 in the benhcmarks, it is a pseudo-PCVR, and hence not comparable.

 

Regarding how capable an 1080Ti is. The total number of pixels matter and also the complexity of the scene to render. The CPU passes the calculated geometry to the GPU (the location of a set of polygons) and then the GPU calculate the color of every pixel of your monitor or VR device. So, in an less dense scene there less polygon, so less work to be done by the GPU as well.

 

That´s why my 1080Ti with the G2 at 100%SS (total 19.5 million pixels) run flawlessly at 90fps at high alttitude clear sky dogfights. The geometry is so simple but you are handling 19.5 million pixels.

But in the SYN_Vander benchmark with hundreds of objects in a low flight  my 1080Ti is only at 45fps.

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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SCG_Fenris_Wolf
1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

But all above is when you look in the center of the vision, if you move your eyeballs out of the center of the vision then the bluriness became more apparent in the G2 (samller sweet spot). And this is something will not be solved by the FOV mod.

 

 

It is solved by the FOV mod, however the simple Samsung Odyssey+ VRcover mod comes with a different range of issues:

Sweaty facial cushion (I like the Index style cloth much more). I can see borders of the screens when looking straight ahead.

 

So this is also no solution yet. A 3D printed gasket with original cloth cushion may help.

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On 12/17/2020 at 11:45 PM, Sgt_Joch said:

So what is the visuals like in index vs G2 in actual gameplay in IL-2?

 

As promised I took some through the lens pictures with the Index and G2. And also compared them to monitor in FullHD and 4K.

I used 19.5 Mpixels for both devices (this means in terms of SteamVR SS 216% for Index and 100% for G2), although in the Index there is no extra details beyond 150%SS.

As I told you, both devices give you more details than a FullHD monitor, but both are inferior to a 4K monitor. Here we should point out that the monitor views has not been supersampled, so probably a more refined images can be obtained in the monitor views if some supersampling (DSR), but here I just wanted to compare them to the native monitor images of just FullHD and just 4K.

 

Overall the G2 view is a bit better than the Index. There is less SDE but not really noticeable to my eyes.

I really don´t know what device I am going to keep. The Index is not as bad as I thought comparing to the new G2. 

 

Basically six advantages:

- Better FOV (I have 3D printed the mod fo G2, still need to test properly but initial impression is that Index FOV is still better)

- Better Sweetspot (clarity from edge to edge)

- Much less GPU demanding

- Can run in 80Hz (less CPU demand)

- No flickering when loading mission (I discover that with the G2, In the Index there is zero flickering)

- No WMR sfotware (Index only requires SteamVR)

 

With no other new VR devices in the horizon it is still a difficult choice. Ideally Valve could release just an upgraded Index with a bit more resolution, and perhaps less weight!

 

Here just post two pictures, but there are more in the original post above.

 

B25_combo.png.f1f49e970784ea5a8bccb1dca3017e4c.png

 

IL-2cabin_combo.thumb.png.d1c7375b22fe0e09f9a72dc4192e707d.png

 

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2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

As promised I took some through the lens pictures with the Index and G2. And also compared them to monitor in FullHD and 4K.

I used 19.5 Mpixels for both devices (this means in terms of SteamVR SS 216% for Index and 100% for G2), although in the Index there is no extra details beyond 150%SS.

As I told you, both devices give you more details than a FullHD monitor, but both are inferior to a 4K monitor. Here we should point out that the monitor views has not been supersampled, so probably a more refined images can be obtained in the monitor views if some supersampling (DSR), but here I just wanted to compare them to the native monitor images of just FullHD and just 4K.

 

Overall the G2 view is a bit better than the Index. There is less SDE but not really noticeable to my eyes.

I really don´t know what device I am going to keep. The Index is not as bad as I thought comparing to the new G2. 

 

Basically six advantages:

- Better FOV (I have 3D printed the mod fo G2, still need to test properly but initial impression is that Index FOV is still better)

- Better Sweetspot (clarity from edge to edge)

- Much less GPU demanding

- Can run in 80Hz (less CPU demand)

- No flickering when loading mission (I discover that with the G2, In the Index there is zero flickering)

- No WMR sfotware (Index only requires SteamVR)

 

With no other new VR devices in the horizon it is still a difficult choice. Ideally Valve could release just an upgraded Index with a bit more resolution, and perhaps less weight!

 

Here just post two pictures, but there are more in the original post above.

 

Thanks for the comparison, very useful!

 

I come from a Rift-S, so there the G2 is clearly better (although the worse sweetspot still bothers me!), but when you have an Index I doubt if you should update.

 

Perhaps to add:

 

G2 pro: No extra sensors needed (inside out tracking)

G2 con: Controller tracking is not very good. I (and my kids) tried some other games like VR archery etc and we noticed tracking is lost every now and then, very annoying. This is known 'feature'. Not important for Flight/Race simmers, but still you should be aware.

 

Edited by SYN_Vander
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13 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

Thanks for the comparison, very useful!

 

I come from a Rift-S, so there the G2 is clearly better (although the worse sweetspot still bothers me!), but when you have an Index I doubt if you should update.

 

Perhaps to add:

 

G2 pro: No extra sensors needed (inside out tracking)

G2 con: Controller tracking is not very good. I (and my kids) tried some other games like VR archery etc and we noticed tracking is lost every now and then, very annoying. This is known 'feature'. Not important for Flight/Race simmers, but still you should be aware.

 

 

While I agree the G2 controller tracking is not as good as say my Rift S, I was able to manage to play both Half Life Alyx and Medal of Honor - both complete play throughs, without any major problems. Initially Oculus new inside/out tracking with the Rift S and Quest was not great however they were able to improve it via software updates. Perhaps HP might be able to do the same, who knows.

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44 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

While I agree the G2 controller tracking is not as good as say my Rift S, I was able to manage to play both Half Life Alyx and Medal of Honor - both complete play throughs, without any major problems. Initially Oculus new inside/out tracking with the Rift S and Quest was not great however they were able to improve it via software updates. Perhaps HP might be able to do the same, who knows.

Let’s hope so and I have to agree, Half Life Alyx seemed to work better with the controllers for some reason, but could be coincidence.

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Thanks for all this detailed information!

I just went through the whole decision matrix on this and end up ordering a Index over the Reverb. For me, it was the tracking performance and the cost difference. Because I already have a Vive, the Index is actually the cheaper option as I can reuse my controllers and base stations. While it isn't as good image quality as the Reverb (as the images above clearly show) it will be much better than my Vive.

 

Cheers, Happy holidays!

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Well guys. Decission has been made. After some more testing of the visuals, FOVs, mods, etc. The G2 was returned today to the retailer through RMA. 

 

The percentage of decission weight for every reason for keeping Index are:

 

35%  for Better FOV (I tested 3D printed the mod fo G2, it really doesn´t increase the FOV or improve sweetspot)

35% for  Better Sweetspot (clarity from edge to edge)

10% for no messy WMR software (Index only requires SteamVR)

10% for being able to run in 80Hz (less CPU demand)

8%  for much less GPU demanding (this is easily solvable with a 3080, but it is a factor)

1% for being able to play with no lights on.

1%  for no flickering when loading mission (I discover that with the G2, In the Index there is zero flickering)

 

On the other side, I will not enjoy the awesome view of the G2 in the center or also the less weight of the device.

 

I don´t count the controllers thing since I just play IL-2 VR, perhaps in future will acquire controllers.

 

I had a lot of enthusiasm for the G2 (those MRTVs and others made a big hype).

I have analyzed all in detail and it is a clear decission. Although the Reverb G2 with controllers is a good set for the price.

So, it seems Index is going to be my only headset until 2022...

Edited by chiliwili69
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I sure am loving my Reverb G2.

I would have liked to have tried Index, just imho the cost is too steep and I really like the simplicity of the inside/out tracking which I got first with the Rift S and now with the Reverb.

I am so loving the resolution of the Reverb G2.

You really should get controllers and have a go with Half Life Alyx, best made for VR game I have seen to date. I also have been tempted to get the Index just for this game.  I believe you get it free with your Index.

Medal of Honor Above and Beyond would be a close second imho. I had a play through with both of these with my Reverb G2 and they were gorgeous.

 

I know what ya mean though, hard to tear away from IL-2. It will always be my main go to game by far. I just like some diversity from time to time. And now I have added MSFS 2020 to the mix. Too many games, not enough time! And I am retired.

 

 

 

Edited by dburne
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10 hours ago, dburne said:

You really should get controllers and have a go with Half Life Alyx, best made for VR game I have seen to date

 

Yes, I gave a try to Alyx before I returned the G2. It was free with the Index s you said.

My 13yr son tried first and he was guiding me afterwards. It is very well done and the visual and inmersion was freaking amazing. I just played for an hour and it was fun and very scary.

Medal of Honor will be also a title to try in future when I will have controllers again. Basically because I was trying to play Call of Duty with my son in co-op, and I couldn´t be efficient with the xbox controller. I don´t know if Medal of Honor allows co-ops mode, for example my son in another PC or Xbox with monitor/TV and me with VR. I would love to play with him in a game and be as close as possible to him.

 

And MFS2020 is also in my list to try.

Edited by chiliwili69
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I thought G2 will finally be what i want VR to be (improved clarity and nos SDE), in combination with rtx3080.

I'm ok if g2 have rift s FoV (i've prdered gasket mod for g2) and tracking isn't much of an issue for me....but what worries me is sweet spot, if it's comparable to rift S i'll be ok, if not than i have a problem.

So many ppl complaining about g2 sweet spot and so many different opinions, we'll see how my head shape affects that, i have 64mm ipd and with rift S i get ~70% sweet spot which is great. 

Anyway my G2 was sent to me yesterday so in a week i'll find out 🤷

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1 hour ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

I thought G2 will finally be what i want VR to be (improved clarity and nos SDE), in combination with rtx3080.

I'm ok if g2 have rift s FoV (i've prdered gasket mod for g2) and tracking isn't much of an issue for me....but what worries me is sweet spot, if it's comparable to rift S i'll be ok, if not than i have a problem.

So many ppl complaining about g2 sweet spot and so many different opinions, we'll see how my head shape affects that, i have 64mm ipd and with rift S i get ~70% sweet spot which is great. 

Anyway my G2 was sent to me yesterday so in a week i'll find out 🤷

 

According to IL-2 the G2 has a slightly larger FOV than Rift S. It showed I had 90 degree in Rift S and 94 degree in Reverb G2.

I really can not tell a difference though. Same with sweet spot, they both seem close to the same to me. However I am half blind so probably not the best

to judge.

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10 hours ago, dburne said:

 

According to IL-2 the G2 has a slightly larger FOV than Rift S. It showed I had 90 degree in Rift S and 94 degree in Reverb G2.

I really can not tell a difference though. Same with sweet spot, they both seem close to the same to me. However I am half blind so probably not the best

to judge.

That's nice to hear, i'm sure you would notice otherwise despite your eye sight condition.

Many reviews and opinions out there, i guess it's largely affected by previous headset they owned, individual IPD and head shape......some suspect HP didn't put same lenses in all G2's (older/newer version) so that guy from MRTV Sebastian is going to test it in coming days (others will send him their headsets).

 

Mine coming in Monday, hope to be pleased as you are Don 😁

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2 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

That's nice to hear, i'm sure you would notice otherwise despite your eye sight condition.

Many reviews and opinions out there, i guess it's largely affected by previous headset they owned, individual IPD and head shape......some suspect HP didn't put same lenses in all G2's (older/newer version) so that guy from MRTV Sebastian is going to test it in coming days (others will send him their headsets).

 

Mine coming in Monday, hope to be pleased as you are Don 😁

 

I have many hours in it now, probably at least a couple hundred if not more, and yeah I am more than pleased with the G2.

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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

Yeah same here, its edge to edge clarity and resolution is definitely better than the Index'. And it doesn't disturb with godrays.

 

It doesn't beat the Vive Cosmos Elite with GearVR lenses though. That's still the king of clarity (and comfort), while having the same screens like the Index.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Not scientific finding: Love the ReverbG2 a big improvement in every way from the Pimax 5k+ which I had used for nearly 2 years,even using a old 1080 graphics card which I’ll have until availability of new graphics becomes more widespread.

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chiliwili69
Posted (edited)
On 12/31/2020 at 5:00 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

its edge to edge clarity

 

Resolution of G2 is better as demonstrated by the pictures, but I really don´t understand how you can say that the edge-to-edge clarity is better in the G2 than in the Index.

Have you compared then A to B, and B to A? 

Put 100%SS and just close one eye and move just the eyeball from upper to lower edge and from right to left edge. You will see that the clarity is not the same than in the center.

I have tried all kind of position of the headset with the mod and without mod, tried everything here, and I am not new to VR.

 

I made a quick search and I see I am not alone:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/kdof70/hp_reverb_g2_small_sweet_spot/

 

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Gaming-Accessories/Reverb-G2-edges-are-blurry/td-p/7890776

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/505069-hp-reverb-g2-first-impressions-in-war-thunder/

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/228523-hp-reverb-g2-announced-next-gen/page/53/?tab=comments#comment-4512265

 

Is there someone else who have an Index AND a G2 and can provide valuable feedback?

 

 

Just searching a bit more it seems that there is more and more people with sweetspot problem in the G2.

I would say that sweetspot (defined as clarity from edge-to-edge when moving only eyeballs) is better in the G2 than in the G1, but far from the larger sweetspot of the Index.

 

It seems that the MRTV guy is going to investigate this mysterious thing:

 

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

It's definitely better for me.

 

I also had horrible godrays in the Index, and it was much heavier.

 

 

The best edge to edge clarity I have ever seen had the Vive Cosmos Elite with GearVR lenses. Yes. I'm still wondering why I gave that away, as it was also the absolute king of comfort. You wouldn't believe it until you've seen it.

 

I think the Mrtv guy is onto something. See: I had a fantastic Pimax 5K+, while my 8KX didn't fit the bill - a tiny sweetspot, no edge to edge clarity, didn't fit my face at all.

 

I believe this is due to assembly tolerances just as much as it is due to facial shapes. Lenses 1mm off, bam you'll be out of focus. Half a degree turned - eyestrain hello.

 

Just return and return until you have a nice unit. We have multiple VR users in SCG and we have good reports on the G2 and unfortunately a bad one. 

 

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FTC_Mephisto

Thank you for the great review and analysis. I changed from Index (since 2019) to G2 now mainly due to higher resolution / increase in sharpness. In terms of the sweet spot I had no issues with G2 and subjectively it is not worst then Index. The reduction in FOV was very apparent, but it was not as bad as I expected and I concluded that I will get used to is. Checking six requires now more body movement as compared to Index. Furthermore I only use VR for flying and while Valve Index is probably a much better ecosystem for VR in general G2 is a better choice for my use case. G2 weight is substantially better and makes a difference for long sessions. After using G2 for a while I really cannot fly with my Index due to perceived decrease in sharpness of the image. I felt the same as I moved from the first generation Rift to Rift S / Index. For me G2 is the next step. 

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Just received a G2. Very small central sharp area ("sweet spot"). Am gonna have to play with it and see if the headset is actually usable for me. This is the 5th headset I've had on my face and the only conclusion I can come to is that these things are very personal. Rift and Rift S were great for me, good edge to edge clarity. Index is great, but heavy, decent edge-to-edge clarity and wider FOV. The Pimax Artisan was pretty bad for me, blurry stereo overlap was very noticeable. And now the G2. I noticed the small central sharp area immediately.

 

Maybe I just got used to the Index and I need to play with the G2 a bit. But right now it seems like a shocking waste of pixels and GPU horsepower. There's no point rendering the outer two thirds at full resolution because the blurriness wastes them all. Gasket mod might help, I tried no gasket and getting my eyes closer did help a bit.

 

 

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chiliwili69
5 hours ago, Alonzo said:

these things are very personal

Exactly.

Flight sims are a hobby, so best is to try the headset and see which one cover better the individual preferences.

5 hours ago, Alonzo said:

But right now it seems like a shocking waste of pixels and GPU horsepower. There's no point rendering the outer two thirds at full resolution because the blurriness wastes them all

I also thought exactly the same. At 100% (recommended by HP) it is amssive amount of pixels (19.5 millions) and only a fraction of them are crystal clear.

 

The lenses theoretically uses the same tech than Index and therefore they were designed to give a good edge-to-edge clarity.

I could think that maybe there is some bug in the rendering process or appliying the couneter-distorion profiles or something else. 

 

What it is still a mistery is why there are some people that have the issue and others no. This is nothing to do with head size or IPD. It can be seen with just one eye.

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15 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

What it is still a mistery is why there are some people that have the issue and others no. This is nothing to do with head size or IPD. It can be seen with just one eye.

 

MRTV is teasing a video for Friday. He has like 6+ G2s that people have sent in for testing. Maybe there is a discovery.

 

I just compared the Index and the G2 in the ROV test room, one after another. The central sharp area of the G2 is really amazing. It may be that flying with that headset is overall better, even though I need to "look with my head" a little more than the Index. I've ordered a 3D print and thin face pad to see if getting my eyes ~15mm closer to the lenses can help a little. I really want to like the G2, in some short testing I found it easier to track and reacquire targets in a dogfight. More testing tomorrow, I think, including some back-to-back tests between the G2 and the Index.

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21 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

MRTV is teasing a video for Friday. He has like 6+ G2s that people have sent in for testing. Maybe there is a discovery.

 

I just compared the Index and the G2 in the ROV test room, one after another. The central sharp area of the G2 is really amazing. It may be that flying with that headset is overall better, even though I need to "look with my head" a little more than the Index. I've ordered a 3D print and thin face pad to see if getting my eyes ~15mm closer to the lenses can help a little. I really want to like the G2, in some short testing I found it easier to track and reacquire targets in a dogfight. More testing tomorrow, I think, including some back-to-back tests between the G2 and the Index.

 

I came to G2 from VivePro with GearVR mod, which is the best combo of ANY headset as far as the inky blacks, clarity, lack of god rays, and 100% lens wide sweet spot (similar feedback to Fenris' above).  However, after using G2 for couple of weeks I got so used to the resolution bump, dramatically reduced shimmering, awesome texture details, etc, etc.. that once I put the VivePro back on it I couldn't stand the low resolution anymore and the god awful shimmering of everything... 

 

Give it couple of weeks, you'll come around.

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1 hour ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

I came to G2 from VivePro with GearVR mod, which is the best combo of ANY headset as far as the inky blacks, clarity, lack of god rays, and 100% lens wide sweet spot (similar feedback to Fenris' above).  However, after using G2 for couple of weeks I got so used to the resolution bump, dramatically reduced shimmering, awesome texture details, etc, etc.. that once I put the VivePro back on it I couldn't stand the low resolution anymore and the god awful shimmering of everything... 

 

Give it couple of weeks, you'll come around.

 

:good:

 

G2 absolutely rocks. I am just awe struck with all my flight sims in it.

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5 hours ago, dburne said:

:good:

 

G2 absolutely rocks. I am just awe struck with all my flight sims in it.

 

I think I'm slowly coming around. Now I'm trying to decide between cranking the settings and accepting 45 FPS mode, and lowering the settings (all the way to balanced on my rig) for the smooth 90. One issue that with multiplayer, my 8086K @ 5.1ghz just isn't enough, I'd need a 5900X. But my 3080 is frankly struggling -- I was running High settings, High clouds, no shadows, and G2 at 65% and it wasn't giving me 90 FPS all the time even in QMB.

 

What balance has everyone settled on for the G2?

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Charlo-VR

In SteamVR I use100% in General with 70% in the Video settings for IL-2. That generally keeps me in 80-90 fps in MP. I was bounced more often when I was in 45 fps mode in MP, as if I couldn't see as clearly so didn't spot bogeys as easily. Now I usually see them before they shoot me down

Edited by Charlo-VR
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