Zen3 Ryzen 5000 serie

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Seems I will go MSI X570 Aorus series on my new build, mini ITX format. On that slapping on the 5900X with AIO liquid cooler, propably Cooler Master. 

 

For memory I will go G.SKILL again, no issues with previous build. Just gonna check the QVL of the mobo to get the best memory keeping If at 1:1.

 

GPU will be the new Big Navi, no question about it. It seems to be a good card if the quick peek has no indication. 

 

PSU will be 850W minimum, always can live with headroom. Case from Fractal Design mostlikely. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by LLv34_Flanker

[jollyjack]

9 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

 ........ The case is pure vanity; I've never bought an LED case. This will be my first case without a CD/DVD/BluRay since 1990s. So many USB 3 points . . .

 

 

But you won't need IL2 anymore, this UFO flies itself !

 

[messsucher]

6 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

Seems I will go MSI X570 Aorus series on my new build, mini ITX format. On that slapping on the 5900X with AIO liquid cooler, propably Cooler Master. 

 

For memory I will go G.SKILL again, no issues with previous build. Just gonna check the QVL of the mobo to get the best memory keeping If at 1:1.

 

GPU will be the new Big Navi, no question about it. It seems to be a good card if the quick peek has no indication. 

 

PSU will be 850W minimum, always can live with headroom. Case from Fractal Design mostlikely. 

 

I wanted to make mini ITX build last time, but thought it is not quite the time yet. Probs next machine will be mini ITX. Fractal Design makes good cases for the money.

[Gambit21]

Will these “mini” cases accommodate these huge cards?

 

My Cooler Master is HUGE. I have more room than I need but cooling is awesome. I wasn’t going to change my case, (because why?) just replace some fans. The case is the worst place to waste money IMO.

 

That said, thinking a bit...it would be nice to downsize this thing a bit if I can budget it in.

[cardboard_killer]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

Will these “mini” cases accommodate these huge cards?

 

My first thought is where does all the heat go? I suppose they must be liquid cooled in order to keep the cpu from catching fire?

2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

The case is the worst place to waste money IMO.

 

True considering all the cheap options out there; however, I think that the reverse is also true--a case is the worst place to save money, too. Nothing worse than trying to fit large componants into spaces too small from them, and slicing a finger open on a sharp edge that was needlessly left sharp.

[Gambit21]

I think I’ll stick with my huge case.

[Jaws2002]

8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

The case is the worst place to waste money IMO

 

  Nah... that would be the RGB. ?

[Gambit21]

7 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

  Nah... that would be the RGB. ?

 

Yep

[messsucher]

28 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Will these “mini” cases accommodate these huge cards?

 

My Cooler Master is HUGE. I have more room than I need but cooling is awesome. I wasn’t going to change my case, (because why?) just replace some fans. The case is the worst place to waste money IMO.

 

That said, thinking a bit...it would be nice to downsize this thing a bit if I can budget it in.

 

Some do, some don't, need to be checked case by case. The reason why I did not do mITX was bad mobo selection and higher temps. When there are better price/quality mobos and a bit better temperatures I will make mITX build. Though, for some normal use temps are fine but not fine for demanding gaming.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

I will not get a true mini case, but a tad bigger to get enough clearance and airflow. Even so the case will be smaller and easier to place, re-designing my cockpit altogether. This first one I built was more or less a basic training

[jollyjack]

Built 4 PCs now, all different cases, no mini. 

 

Cases are well thought of today regarding airflow.

I've chosen a Fractal last year; 3 reasons. A large GPU card wouldn't fit in the other cases, and with a watercooler setup the radiator gets in the way,

if you cannot mount it at the front (blowing outwards).

All the fans now blow outwards, air intake is all along the bottom, and i got an extra dust filter layer inserted covering all intake area. So far no dust in the case for over a year ....

 

What i really hate is these modern designs where every cable has to be black. Miss the red and yellow; Not easy to see where the 12 and 5 volts are heading.

 

[Livai]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:13 PM, Voyager said:

@coconut Yes. That said, the 3950X launched at $750, so the 5950X launching at $800 is a relatively small cost increase over the last one. 

 

The 16 core chips were always going to be expensive because they require two top quality chips, so they could do two 5800X parts for what it takes to build one 5950X.

 

The 12 cores generally only use one top quality chip and one low quality chip. So it's not as big a resource delta from the 5800X

 

The price is because AMD finally merged the L3-Cache and +$50 more is not much. The 3950x had 4x 16MB but the 5950x has 2x 32 MB. The 5800x even better has 1x 32MB compared to the 3800, 2800, 1800 Series with 2x 16 MB.  A larger L3-Cache always increase the cost.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Livai

[Jaws2002]

Looks like i was wrong. AMD did increase the speed of the memory fabric of the Zen 3 and they now recomend DDR4 PC 4000 as the sweet spot for best performance. Looks like we get 200MHz uplift in infinity fabric speed and we can use 400 MHz faster memory, without hitting the upper limit of the infinity fabric.

 

https://wccftech.com/amds-ryzen-5000-zen-3-desktop-cpus-memory-overclocking-ddr4-4000-mhz-sweet-spot/

Tempting. ?

Higher boost clock, 20% higher ipc, shared cache for reduced latency, and now faster infinity fabric..

 No question, this Zen generation is going to be better than Intel at everything. 

Gaming, mulithreading performance, single threading performance, power efficiency. 

[Voyager]

On 10/8/2020 at 1:42 PM, R3animate said:

 

..Do IPC improvements not apply to AVX workloads? 

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf @chiliwili69 @Gambit21

 

So I've just discovered that my Coffee Lake based laptop and Zen 2 desktop have about the same number of DX11 draw calls per clock, but 3DMark doesn't make those results searchable yet: 

 

I'm trying to find out if that holds across more than just my two chips though, but if it does hold, I think that may explain why Zen 2 is behind Intel for flight sims, and could be what we need to test for Zen 3 and Rocket Lake when they go live. 

 

[cardboard_killer]

As the week draws to a close, the pieces of my new computer sit at the shop while being put together by the computer elves. Which me

ans I am without a computer to run games for a week.

 

Still, a good opportunity to reorganize and clean up the old computer before giving it to my brother to replace his aging machine. Thank god for USB 3; so much faster than 2.0

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

@cardboard_killer Not having a game capable computer at all now ? A laptop to pay bills etc. Feels kind of odd, but have been without a computer before, no big deal. Satisfied my gaming needs with the PS4 Pro and Destiny 2. Used to play that game a lot.. ?

 

 

[cardboard_killer]

5 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

@cardboard_killer Not having a game capable computer at all now ? A laptop to pay bills etc. Feels kind of odd, but have been without a computer before, no big deal. Satisfied my gaming needs with the PS4 Pro and Destiny 2. Used to play that game a lot.. ?

 

 

 

Stupid question, bu how do you do the @cardboard_killer effect to call out me?

 

Thanks,

CK

[robbiec]

On 10/15/2020 at 5:35 PM, Jaws2002 said:

Looks like i was wrong. AMD did increase the speed of the memory fabric of the Zen 3 and they now recomend DDR4 PC 4000 as the sweet spot for best performance. Looks like we get 200MHz uplift in infinity fabric speed and we can use 400 MHz faster memory, without hitting the upper limit of the infinity fabric.

 

https://wccftech.com/amds-ryzen-5000-zen-3-desktop-cpus-memory-overclocking-ddr4-4000-mhz-sweet-spot/

Tempting. ?

Higher boost clock, 20% higher ipc, shared cache for reduced latency, and now faster infinity fabric..

 No question, this Zen generation is going to be better than Intel at everything. 

Gaming, mulithreading performance, single threading performance, power efficiency. 

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Previously it was 3600/1800 (mClk/fClk) as the sweetspot and the best Ryzen gains have always been through memory. I have to B-Dies here that are good for 3200 - 14-14-14-31 that are OK also at 3600 - 16-17-17-39 so will have to see if I can tempt them up to the lofty heights of 4000 @18/19 something, something, something. Might crack the 60K-MB/s but I'd like to see the latency side dropped from 70ns to mid 60s as well. 

The question is, is the Infinity Fabric boost part of the ipc gain or an addition that you can hunt down? 

2 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Stupid question, bu how do you do the @cardboard_killer effect to call out me?

 

Thanks,

CK

@cardboard_killer use @[username] S! 

[cardboard_killer]

Trying"

@robbiec

to test

 

Thanks again!

CK

Edited October 17, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

As robbiec said, type the @ sign and name after it. Also make sure a list of names open up after typing @ then chiose correct one and it should stay highlighted.

 

As of the new rig, might go now to Ryzen 5000-series or just skip to Zen4. Not in an exact hurry..gives more leeway to save up for a killer rig. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by LLv34_Flanker

[Jaws2002]

I'm entertaining the idea of overclocking my 3600MHz kit to see if i can get it to 4000MHz. 

 I have to get my burned motherboard back from Gigabyte first. ?

They had it for over three weeks.

I already hate laptops and small phone screens. 

[cardboard_killer]

1 minute ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

As robbiec said, type the @ sign and name after it. As of the new rig, might go now to Ryzen 5000-series or just skip to Zen4. Not in an exact hurry.. 

 

I tried typing the name, but that didn't work. I had to let the computer prompt the name and use it; plain typing did not do it.

[von_Tom]

On 10/10/2020 at 9:30 PM, Jaws2002 said:

 

  Nah... that would be the RGB. ?

 

Heresy!

 

Burn him at the stake!

 

von Tom

[Jaws2002]

Ryzen 5950x benchmarked while running at over 5GHz.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-5ghz-benchmarks

Some impressive scores as well....temptations....

[ZachariasX]

Impressive indeed.

 

The sheer magnitude of Intels 10 nm disaster is showing in the sale of the SSD department to Hynix. In 2018, when the sheer mess of that node became apparent, Intel lost a 1 billion $ per year client for their flash business in 2018. The residual business does not make the flash department viable anymore. It just adds to the nice feeling you have when you are forced to buy Intel SSD on X299 platforms like myself... So it sold it out for 2 billion $, while forcing Hynix to buy Intels flash factory in Dalian as well for another 7 billion $, a factory that is rented back to Intel for the next couple of years until it has to be decommissioned, as fabs have limited operational time before they cannot be upgraded anymore economically. On the surface, this is probably a nice play to even out cratering business numbers such that they are not that evident. Hynix pays a lot (and is forced to buy an assembly shack) to get the enterprise segment along with the knowhow and the patents. Still, it might be a good way for Hynix to put the foot in the door that way.

 

Intel surely has some dire times ahead. Will be interesting to see how the company will be morphing over the next one or two years before they will have cometitive parts out again.

 

Until maybe a month ago, I though about upgrading to the 10980XE, but as things look now... by next spring it makes much more sense to change the whole rig for whatever AMD can offer. Maybe by then one can actually buy the recent GPU's...

[CanadaOne]

6 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Ryzen 5950x benchmarked while running at over 5GHz.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-5ghz-benchmarks

Some impressive scores as well....temptations....

 

Nice, but that would run about $1300+ with a cooler. 

 

Would love to have one of those with a 3080. 

[Jaws2002]

Maximum boost clocks achieved by this upcoming zen3 CPUs in this Geekbench benchmarks.

 

from Geekbench

R7 5800X - 4.84 GHz

R9 5900X - 4.94 GHz

R9 5950X - 5.04 GHz

 

AMD spec

R7 5800X - 4.7 GHz

R9 5900X - 4.8 GHz

R9 5950X - 4.9 GHz

 

 

 

 

 

[HunDread]

Not sure how to interpret this. 

 

Few days ago I did not see any AMD CPUs on top of this chart now the 5600X quite considerably beats the intels. 

 

EDIT: adding link: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by HunDread

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, HunDread said:

Not sure how to interpret this. 

 

Few days ago I did not see any AMD CPUs on top of this chart now the 5600X quite considerably beats the intels. 

 

EDIT: adding link: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

It seems odd that there are almost 3500 performance benchmarks performed on a chip that's not even available commercially yet, more than chips that have been on the market for a while. These are supposed to be benchmarks run with the passmark software right?

[HunDread]

1 minute ago, RedKestrel said:

It seems odd that there are almost 3500 performance benchmarks performed on a chip that's not even available commercially yet, more than chips that have been on the market for a while. These are supposed to be benchmarks run with the passmark software right?

 

Yea I guess so. Not exactly an expert here I just usually look up this site for CPU comparisons.

[Jaws2002]

8 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

It seems odd that there are almost 3500 performance benchmarks performed on a chip that's not even available commercially yet, more than chips that have been on the market for a while. These are supposed to be benchmarks run with the passmark software right?

I think that's some kind of score. When you click on the 5600x it shows one single sample tested.  The score looks impressive.

[RedKestrel]

1 minute ago, Jaws2002 said:

I think that's some kind of score. When you click on the 5600x it shows one single sample tested.  The score looks impressive.

Ah, I see now. Thanks. It certainly is impressive, especially considering the price difference. We'll have a better picture when more people start testing them but even as an upper limit in a best case scenario that's pretty damn good.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, Voyager said:

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf @chiliwili69 @Gambit21

 

So I've just discovered that my Coffee Lake based laptop and Zen 2 desktop have about the same number of DX11 draw calls per clock, but 3DMark doesn't make those results searchable yet: 

 

I'm trying to find out if that holds across more than just my two chips though, but if it does hold, I think that may explain why Zen 2 is behind Intel for flight sims, and could be what we need to test for Zen 3 and Rocket Lake when they go live. 

 

Exactly!

 

I'm the first who'd switch to team Red in a heartbeat if it finally beat Intel in single core performance for IL-2, but currently they don't. 

 

People on these forums aren't aware of it and only watch the dx12 synthetics, this thread is testament to it. 

 

It's absolutely unclear if Zen3 can even beat Coffee Lake in single core performance in IL-2's VR compartment....

[Jaws2002]

Therer's a whole world out there, outside VR Il-2. 

  And out there intel has become a joke. They were milking anyone who wanted more than four cores dry for years. They were selling the same repackaged crap for years.

That's why everyone is happy that AMD beat them. 

  It doesn't matter if in combinations of old, obsolete software, like il-2 +VR, Intel is ahead.

People got tired of being taken for fools.

 

[IckyATLAS]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I'm the first who'd switch to team Red in a heartbeat if it finally beat Intel in single core performance for IL-2, but currently they don't. 

 

It's absolutely unclear if Zen3 can even beat Coffee Lake in single core performance in IL-2's VR compartment....

I will wait for independent single core benchmarks, but there are some info that may hint at a victory from team red.

If the do sustain 4.9 Ghz single core stock frequency as they say and be OCed at say 5.1 or 5.2 Ghz then considering the number of instructions per clock cycle which is higher than Intel's they should mathematically be much better than Intel. Wait and see.

The next CPU from Intel due 1st quarter 2021 may be still a 14 nm a little improved CPU. Maybe if they can run it at 5.5 Ghz stock on all cores they could win again. 

But if so there will be nothing left against the Zen4 CPU due end 2021 which may be running at 5 nm. In any case this time the lead seem to be in hands of AMD.

One reason I may switch to AMD is the backward compatibility of the AMD chipsets with new CPU's, something Intel practically never did. And I am fed up with this continuous motherboard change needed with Intel. SO if I can get a guarantee that the motherboard I will buy for the Zen3 will be compatible with Zen4 then I have no reasons left to switch to AMD.

 

[Voyager]

2 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Therer's a whole world out there, outside VR Il-2. 

  And out there intel has become a joke. They were milking anyone who wanted more than four cores dry for years. They were selling the same repackaged crap for years.

That's why everyone is happy that AMD beat them. 

  It doesn't matter if in combinations of old, obsolete software, like il-2 +VR, Intel is ahead.

People got tired of being taken for fools.

 

 

It depends on your usecase. My I7-4770K ran everything except Il-2 and DCS VR well. My 3800X runs them better, but still not good enough for heavy use.

 

At this point I'm going to be watching what happens in the CPU/GPU world. I suspect that Rocket Lake, if what I think is going on with Dx11 VR is true, may actually be worse in VR than Comet Lake. Though, I may want to see about getting a Zen 3 chip anyways, and test it myself, as I suspect I'm probably one of the very few people on the forums likely to get one anyways.

 

Not sure really. Right now I'm got some barriers to VR play, that have significantly limited my ability to play in it, in general. 

[Jaws2002]

On 10/22/2020 at 1:18 PM, HunDread said:

Not sure how to interpret this. 

 

Few days ago I did not see any AMD CPUs on top of this chart now the 5600X quite considerably beats the intels. 

 

EDIT: adding link: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

 

Another Zen3 CPU showed up in Pass Mark cpu database.

 

 The new Ryzen 9 5950x just put the lid on the single core performance stack, with a score of 3693 points. In multithreading benchmark it got a very respectable 45563 score.

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html 

 

The guys at videocards are saying the cpu held over 5GHz throughout most of the benchmark.

[robbiec]

On 10/25/2020 at 4:26 PM, IckyATLAS said:

I will wait for independent single core benchmarks, but there are some info that may hint at a victory from team red.

If the do sustain 4.9 Ghz single core stock frequency as they say and be OCed at say 5.1 or 5.2 Ghz then considering the number of instructions per clock cycle which is higher than Intel's they should mathematically be much better than Intel. Wait and see.

The next CPU from Intel due 1st quarter 2021 may be still a 14 nm a little improved CPU. Maybe if they can run it at 5.5 Ghz stock on all cores they could win again. 

But if so there will be nothing left against the Zen4 CPU due end 2021 which may be running at 5 nm. In any case this time the lead seem to be in hands of AMD.

One reason I may switch to AMD is the backward compatibility of the AMD chipsets with new CPU's, something Intel practically never did. And I am fed up with this continuous motherboard change needed with Intel. SO if I can get a guarantee that the motherboard I will buy for the Zen3 will be compatible with Zen4 then I have no reasons left to switch to AMD.

 

Zen3 will be the last on the AM4 platform. Hold off if you can to the backend of 21 till AM5 arrives. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

@Jaws2002 

Well, this is nice. But it doesn't seem to be the denominator for good performance in IL-2's VR. (Yes, I don't care about anything else).

 

In IL-2's VR section the i7 7700K at 4.9GHz here seriously outperforms the Ryzen 7 3800X , which is rated higher on the PassMark CPU ST score.

 

 

So that means, for this game, the PassMark CPU ST score is a "false" benchmark. We need to find the correct one.

 

 

Someone suggest API Overhead DX11 Single Thread. I ran that at 2 860 367 draw calls. Could you run your Ryzen 3950X through that please? 

 

 

Hmm I'm really waiting eagerly for Zen3 now. It might finally be time to find something that slaps this old 7700K around enough that I can upgrade.

Edited October 26, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[robbiec]

14 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Someone suggest API Overhead DX11 Single Thread. I ran that at 2 860 367 draw calls. Could you run your Ryzen 3950X through that please? 

Hmm I'm really waiting eagerly for Zen3 now. It might finally be time to find something that slaps this old 7700K around enough that I can upgrade.

 

I have a 3900X and it scored 1 925 137 topping out at 4499Mhz - Quite a ways off your i7