Game version 4.007 discussion: Ju 87 D-3 in 4K, new options and camera controls, control rods DM and ect.

[Stoopy]

18 minutes ago, JAGER_Batz said:

The reshade was what made the game beautiful with more vivid colors and more definition, now I have to go back to standard gray, and colors without brightness....?‍♂️

 

What MP servers have it turned off at this point?

 

[JAGER_Batz]

12 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

What MP servers have it turned off at this point?

 

At this moment the ones that have more players online Wol, Combat Box is still released

[RedKestrel]

55 minutes ago, blitze said:

 

@Jason_Williams, @Han This. 

4.006 brought about initially great improvements with spotting and at the old FOV Id-ing of targets for me.  This went backwards at either the 4.006d or e revision, with the change of the FOV for VR users.

 

Even though they have a good implemented new Zoom function to placate the people demanding it after 3Dmigoto was broken with the new rendering architecture, actual visibility has gone back to the problems of the past where I can hardly spot a target at 2kms out in most lighting situations and following / tracking targets is difficult.

 

I do like the improved world scale at the new FOV and the new Zoom, well it should placate the 3Dmigoto folks but yes. Things have gone backwards.  That and the new 4.007 update has gone and rewritten the default snap views so that I have to troll through each aircraft in 2D and rework the pilot head position to be how I had them set up.

 

I would very much hope that we get the current FOV and zooms but with the 4.006c visibility.  That would be ideal.

 

Also note the change in FOV was implemented in 4.006d without testing but I think the return to poor contact visibility was 4.006e

 

Nothing to do with Cinema-graphic Camera setting either.

I noticed no differences in spotting between 4.006 and 4.006e. Have not tried 4.007 yet. But you should try the sharpen filter on for contact spotting, and the landscape filter blurred IMO. At 1080p, 4X FXAA and Sharpen on, I found spotting much improved. 

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

53 minutes ago, JAGER_Batz said:

The reshade was what made the game beautiful with more vivid colors and more definition, now I have to go back to standard gray, and colors without brightness....?‍♂️

It's simulation, not cartoon.

[69th_Panp]

13 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Well I've now actually flown online since the update and I gotta say, I feel like visibility has gone backwards big time. I know after 4.006 I felt like I could spot planes very well against any backdrop, the ground, etc. This was a very welcome change. We just flew an SCG flight on combat box and all of us were commenting on how we couldn't spot anything, each-other, contacts, everything seemed to be just blurring into it's background, even IDing when zoomed was harder as things just didn't seem to pop or have the contrast that I'd gotten used to with 4.006.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this?

I have to agree with you Wulfe, I find it just as difficult to spot now as pre 4006 

 

Rudidlo 

you should not comment on things you have not tried 

49 minutes ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

It's simulation, not cartoon.

Lots of people like the colors and dont like the flat drab stock colors that you may like.

reshade is no different than changing the gama below or above the stock levels in the CFG files that people have used since 4003

Reshade just makes it easy to do WHILE in the game!

Add a little color to your life and try it 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by 69th_Panp

[357th_KW]

Fortunately there’s now a server option to prevent people from playing with Migoto and Reshade - so if it bothers anyone just go play on such a server.  Problem solved.

[JAGER_Batz]

1 hour ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

It's simulation, not cartoon.

[edited]
And can't a game have colors? only the cartoon can?
Without the reshade the game has weak colors, without definition, like a unfocused image

Edited June 11, 2020 by SYN_Haashashin
Do not label people like that

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Thanks, when it was damaged did it also push the trim to full deflection one way? Or just removed the ability to change it?

It stayed in the position, it was. I think it is a quite reasonable simulation, that something has broken and is blocked now, so you can't change trim anymore.

[TAIPAN_]

15 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

It stayed in the position, it was. I think it is a quite reasonable simulation, that something has broken and is blocked now, so you can't change trim anymore.

 

Yeah it's pretty great the amount of detail we have.

 

Not sure what happened to my trim in the case where it moved and I could still control it - I probably held it down unconsciously while dogfighting it's kind of where my thumb rests..

 

I've got the KG 12 grip VKB stick, and there's nowhere really to rest your thumb except on the hat switch. I'll have to be more careful...

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

1 hour ago, JAGER_Batz said:

[edited]
And can't a game have colors? only the cartoon can?
Without the reshade the game has weak colors, without definition, like a unfocused image

Yes, games has colors. I can see a lot of them in Sturmovik.

[dburne]

I must be a bit color blind, cause to me the colors in IL-2 GB look fantastic.

Which is good for me as I prefer not to run any mods.

[Guest deleted@210880]

Three things that span this update and the one before:

 

1) Very happy with the change in hit sounds, I jump everytime and it is most unsettling. Love it.

 

2) I was sceptical of the damage modelling changes originally, but some time in Single Player has shown the changes work really well, at least for fighter on fighter of which  most of my experience has been since the changes.

 

3) I'm glad reshade has been able to be set as a server option to be blocked. I used to use it a long long time ago to add a bit of colour, vignette and head-motion-blur (it can do it to a lesser extent than the ingame) and so I am sad for those who currently enjoy the eye-candy improvement a bit of vibrance can bring, but after having seen how it can be manipulated, shockingly so really, it is so good to have the option to block it. That difference in being spotted or not really means life or death online, and that means fun or not sometimes, and I'm sure that the vulching/base camping types really benefit from that sort of trick.

 

The alt vision option, map icon and now this will all unfortunately together split the server users up even further, and indeed there's currently no server that satisfies my preferences, but sadly I think it had to be done regarding reshade from seeing the exploit potential.

 

Now if you can just have nav lights as a server option too...

 

 

...(I jest)

 

 

 

 

[Mika_87]

I havent been able to play game much after last update so i am sorry if i ask something stupid. Is there option to use zoom and views like before update? I mean that zoom level stays even i turn my "head"? Also i would like that if i turn my head that view stays. Now when i release hat on my joystick it get back on default position.

[US103_Baer]

Control rod jamming seems way over-modeled in Flying Circus and just another way to die for Entente pilots on top of heavily skewed wing-shedding post-4.006 which massively favours the Fokker D7, Dr1 Pfalz and Bristol.

 

Control jams are occurring in around 20-30% of online engagements we tested. Another squadron had control jams in their Bristols every sortie!

It can only take a single bullet fired from very long range (see below) to jam an elevator full down, meaning certain death for Entente pilots who don't have the luxury of parachutes.

 

This is ONE 7.92mm round being fired from probably 600-700m at a diving Spad. How does that knock out the Spad? Seriously. 

(I'm assuming the minor 0.2 damage round is not related, but even if it is, the question remains)

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by US103_Baer

[VR-DriftaholiC]

17 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I noticed no differences in spotting between 4.006 and 4.006e. Have not tried 4.007 yet. But you should try the sharpen filter on for contact spotting, and the landscape filter blurred IMO. At 1080p, 4X FXAA and Sharpen on, I found spotting much improved. 

@RedKestrel @blitze

 

In my testing FXAA reduced spotting distance by 4-5KM of a JU52 against the sky vs No AA

[Yogiflight]

17 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

I've got the KG 12 grip VKB stick, and there's nowhere really to rest your thumb except on the hat switch. I'll have to be more careful...

I am flying with the european version of the Gladiator, so the same grip, just everything else is cheaper than the Gunfighter with KG 12. I removed the handholder, as I don't need it and there was no handholder at the original grip, either. So I can fly with my thumb below the coolie hat, only when I want to shoot, I take it up above the coolie hat.

Apart from that I have nothing really dangerous set to my coolie hat, except 0° for dropping bombs.

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, US103_Baer said:

Control rod jamming seems way over-modeled in Flying Circus and just another way to die for Entente pilots on top of heavily skewed wing-shedding post-4.006 which massively favours the Fokker D7, Dr1 Pfalz and Bristol.

 

Control jams are occurring in around 20% of online engagements we tested. Another squadron had control jams in their Bristols every sortie!

It can only take a single bullet fired from very long range (see below) to jam an elevator full down, meaning certain death for Entente pilots who don't have the luxury of parachutes.

 

This is ONE 7.92mm round being fired from probably 600-700m at a diving Spad. How does that knock out the Spad? Seriously. 

(I'm assuming the minor 0.2 damage round is not related, but even if it is, the question remains)

 

 

From what i could see thouse % of damage are more tied to part that got hit and not to be considered as HP % for example, so if right part is hit even small % damage is critical and bring down airplane.

[US103_Baer]

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

From what i could see thouse % of damage are more tied to part that got hit and not to be considered as HP % for example, so if right part is hit even small % damage is critical and bring down airplane.

Of course, but what's the right part for 1 bullet fired at 600m+ range that then brings down the whole plane? Pilot head, yes. Elevator...I seriously doubt it.

Come on. It's nonsense. Did you see the Dr1 damage report?

Edited June 12, 2020 by US103_Baer

[CountZero]

3 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

Of course, but what's the right part for 1 bullet fired at 600m+ range that then brings down the whole plane? Pilot head, yes. Elevator...I seriously doubt it.

Come on. It's nonsense. Did you see the Dr1 damage report?

No i didnt, but i could see even P-51s drop from sky just for scrach on wing and smalL % of damage shown, so i guess it works same in FC.

[TAIPAN_]

42 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I am flying with the european version of the Gladiator, so the same grip, just everything else is cheaper than the Gunfighter with KG 12. I removed the handholder, as I don't need it and there was no handholder at the original grip, either. So I can fly with my thumb below the coolie hat, only when I want to shoot, I take it up above the coolie hat.

Apart from that I have nothing really dangerous set to my coolie hat, except 0° for dropping bombs.

 

Thanks, I might try it! hope I don't get a sore arm though since stick is on my desk. But can at least try

[RedKestrel]

2 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

@RedKestrel @blitze

 

In my testing FXAA reduced spotting distance by 4-5KM of a JU52 against the sky vs No AA

I would guess no AA would always be ideal because nothing is 'aliased away', but if I put it on that setting the game is too jagged, and that hurts my spotting too since I find it harder to pick out movement...

 

[ATA_Vasilij]

Hi devs, will be somehow attempt to solve the issue with skins on the planes? When you choose different than the default one, when switching external view, first appear the default, than in a second is loaded the choosed one. Its quite disturbing.

 

And I offer to disable the FOV info in upper corner with fps. I would appreciate option to disable fov to be displayed with.

 

thanks

[US103_Baer]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

No i didnt, but i could see even P-51s drop from sky just for scrach on wing and smalL % of damage shown, so i guess it works same in FC.

 

Rather different ammunition being used. How does a single small steel jacket bullet jam the elevator of a Spad 600m away. The msg read "Elevator control broken". Well, no. It was jammed in down position actually.

What could that magic bullet possibly hit to do that? And even if such a non-redundant component exists, what is the chance of hitting it?

[SCG_Wulfe]

44 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

 

Rather different ammunition being used. How does a single small steel jacket bullet jam the elevator of a Spad 600m away. The msg read "Elevator control broken". Well, no. It was jammed in down position actually.

What could that magic bullet possibly hit to do that? And even if such a non-redundant component exists, what is the chance of hitting it?

 

I have to say I agree with this. I have also noticed that controls get taken out way too easily. I have to assume that the cables are all modeled with a some sort of hit box over them and any bullet that enters this space is taking out the indicated control cable. The problem is that a bullet could often graze/glance off of steel cable without actually severing it. (More often than not). Really I think the easiest implementation of these odds is a odds based randomizer attached to severed cable outcomes. (This is especially the case when we are talking about rifle caliber machine gun bullets.)

Edited June 12, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Birdman]

2 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

Of course, but what's the right part for 1 bullet fired at 600m+ range that then brings down the whole plane? Pilot head, yes. Elevator...I seriously doubt it.

Come on. It's nonsense. Did you see the Dr1 damage report?

If you have a track send it to the devs

[IRRE_Axurit]

The ability to choose different zoom levels is nice, but the zoomed image remains of poor quality. It looks like a magnification of pixel mash.

I am unable to recognize a 109 from a spitfire at 500m !!

We attacked a port in stukas at 4000m, my colleagues on screen were choosing the boats to hit, and I could not differentiate the boats from the docks.

 

I really don't find the new zoom system balances VR / noVR players

The zoom images of 3d Migoto were sharp, and we could easily distinguish the shapes, the game can not match this quality?

 

The rest is very good, I can't wait to try this P47, and I hope that the next one will be the Hurricane.

[Bilbo_Baggins]

12 hours ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

 

It appears there's a separate issue regarding the rear fuselage structural strength seeming somewhat over-modelled.. this has been mentioned on a few threads now..  most aircraft in-game seem to able to retain structural integrity in that position regardless of how much gunfire they take..  only a collision or ground impact seems to be a likely cause of detachment.

 

 

You're right, the fuselage structural strength now just doesn't make sense. Even the tiny P38 twin fuselages take extraordinary damage when testing. The big caliber weapons NS-37mm and MK108 are just not doing the damage they should be. Nothing like the evidence below anyway:

 

Blenheim fuselage blown apart https://i.imgur.com/Bonc5bD.mp4

 

Spitfire fuselage cut in half https://i.imgur.com/7hiQvJq.mp4

Edited June 12, 2020 by Bilbo_Baggins

[unreasonable]

13 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I have to say I agree with this. I have also noticed that controls get taken out way too easily. I have to assume that the cables are all modeled with a some sort of hit box over them and any bullet that enters this space is taking out the indicated control cable. The problem is that a bullet could often graze/glance off of steel cable without actually severing it. (More often than not). Really I think the easiest implementation of these odds is a odds based randomizer attached to severed cable outcomes. (This is especially the case when we are talking about rifle caliber machine gun bullets.)

 

I think that a probability calculation + randomizer is what we have now, just as the wing "spars" are not hit boxes either.  Han did not mention control rod hit boxes.  So if they are getting hit too frequently they should be possible to adjust easily enough. 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

 

I think that a probability calculation + randomizer is what we have now, just as the wing "spars" are not hit boxes either.  Han did not mention control rod hit boxes.  So if they are getting hit too frequently they should be possible to adjust easily enough. 

I do believe wing spars do have their own hit boxes. Iirc one of the devs mentioned that they added hitboxes to various elements like engine cylinders, etc. Not 100% what has a hitbox and what doesn't though.

Maybe it's just that they model it and not have a hitbox? Idk, I just remember reading about cylinders being modeled with the DM update.

[unreasonable]

5 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

I do believe wing spars do have their own hit boxes. Iirc one of the devs mentioned that they added hitboxes to various elements like engine cylinders, etc. Not 100% what has a hitbox and what doesn't though.

Maybe it's just that they model it and not have a hitbox? Idk, I just remember reading about cylinders being modeled with the DM update.

 

@AnPetrovich has told us that spars in FC do not have hit boxes, and why, (to avoid extra hit recognition processing) but this might be only for FC, since most non-FC planes have fewer wings? 

 

The SPAD XIII.C1 in FC has 10 hit-boxes for the top wing, including 7 wing's sections, two ailerons, and one top fuel tank. If we want to put additional hit-boxes for the spars, we have to add 14 new hit-boxes: two for each section of the wing. Otherwise, if we add only two hit-boxes (one per spar), we won't be able to detect which exactly section of the spar (wing) should be broken, and also there will be a possibility to wrongly "hit" the spar in the area where the section of the wing has already been lost (this is not a critical issue since the wing is broken and the airplane goes down, but... still weird).

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, unreasonable said:

 

@AnPetrovich has told us that spars in FC do not have hit boxes, and why, (to avoid extra hit recognition processing) but this might be only for FC, since most non-FC planes have fewer wings? 

 

The SPAD XIII.C1 in FC has 10 hit-boxes for the top wing, including 7 wing's sections, two ailerons, and one top fuel tank. If we want to put additional hit-boxes for the spars, we have to add 14 new hit-boxes: two for each section of the wing. Otherwise, if we add only two hit-boxes (one per spar), we won't be able to detect which exactly section of the spar (wing) should be broken, and also there will be a possibility to wrongly "hit" the spar in the area where the section of the wing has already been lost (this is not a critical issue since the wing is broken and the airplane goes down, but... still weird).

Ah ok, didnt realize you were talking about FC specifically. Maybe none of the aircraft have hitboxes idk, I just remember reading about cylinders now being modeled so I figured they added some hitboxes.

[unreasonable]

31 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Ah ok, didnt realize you were talking about FC specifically. Maybe none of the aircraft have hitboxes idk, I just remember reading about cylinders now being modeled so I figured they added some hitboxes.

 

I wasn't - just assuming that what applied to FC applied generally, since FC and BoX got the new DM at the same time, but I can see how the devs might have had to make certain exceptions.

 

Anyway - it only matters if you want to be able to see when hit location lines up with the internal, hidden "hit box" location. In the case of FC spars it does not, but this hardly ever matters as you cannot usually see exactly where your hits are landing anyway. So rolling a dice for a virtual "spar" hit works just as well. I would have thought it would for control rods etc. 

 

When people talk about "hit boxes" they sometimes mean the actual volumes that are used for real time 3D hit recognition, and sometimes for the 3D model which is used to generate the probabilities of hitting the virtual hit box used in the DM. 

 

Interesting to learn a little more about how the DM actually works, but at the end of the day dogfight it is only the result that matters.

Edited June 13, 2020 by unreasonable

[US103_Baer]

19 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I have to say I agree with this. I have also noticed that controls get taken out way too easily. I have to assume that the cables are all modeled with a some sort of hit box over them and any bullet that enters this space is taking out the indicated control cable. The problem is that a bullet could often graze/glance off of steel cable without actually severing it. (More often than not). Really I think the easiest implementation of these odds is a odds based randomizer attached to severed cable outcomes. (This is especially the case when we are talking about rifle caliber machine gun bullets.)

 

Right! And then add redundant cables so even if one is damaged another remains. My understanding is that there were a few points where both cables would come together so if this place was hit you'd lose both, but the chances of that would be extremely tiny.

 

Unfortunately gameplay is showing that it is happening very frequently.

 

[airsheep_VR]

On 6/11/2020 at 5:22 PM, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

It's simulation, not cartoon.

No, it is just a game. Vr is simulation

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

37 minutes ago, airsheep_VR said:

No, it is just a game. Vr is simulation

VR is not simulation without G forces.

[SCG_motoadve]

4 hours ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

VR is not simulation without G forces.

We dont have G forces, or motion platforms most of us but...

Some stuff is super realistic in VR and helps for real world training also, such as formation flying, for this definitely a simulator.

Feeling of depth, altitude are there too, not even close to a desktop monitor, with the HP Reverb which has the highest resolution, you see every single instrument clearly and scale is 1:1 absolutely amazing, its like you own every airplane , and can be inside its cockpit, not just look at the cockpit like in a monitor, you are inside.

[blitze]

Anyone commenting on my previous observation - please note that I have done testing with FXAA on and off as well as MSAA.

 

I don't blindly comment and my observations are based on settings that were utilized in previous versions sop that there is a constant reference point to draw upon.

 

Spotting and visual clarity across a number of resolutions has gone backwards since 4.006c for me.

[Mika_87]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:26 AM, Mika_87 said:

I havent been able to play game much after last update so i am sorry if i ask something stupid. Is there option to use zoom and views like before update? I mean that zoom level stays even i turn my "head"? Also i would like that if i turn my head that view stays. Now when i release hat on my joystick it get back on default position.

 

got it working with f9

Edited June 14, 2020 by Mika_87

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

The cumulative impact of the 4.006 and 4.007 DM changes have made Flying Circus a "non play experience". Spray and pray has supplanted skill. It has disproportionately impacted Entente aircraft, but it's taken what should be an interesting take on WWI dogfighting and turned it into Yahtzee (pure RNG).

 

Pretty frustrating, nothing in RoF was ever this bad. It's turning off this nearly 10 year veteran customer and many others.

[airsheep_VR]

10 hours ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

The cumulative impact of the 4.006 and 4.007 DM changes have made Flying Circus a "non play experience". Spray and pray has supplanted skill. It has disproportionately impacted Entente aircraft, but it's taken what should be an interesting take on WWI dogfighting and turned it into Yahtzee (pure RNG).

 

Pretty frustrating, nothing in RoF was ever this bad. It's turning off this nearly 10 year veteran customer and many others.

I feel something like that in GB too. I have no chance to escape from a fight, some hit=engine fire or lost controls, bail out. Russian wooden planes sustain much more damage than German ones. But it is just a feeling, and maybe historically accurate, I don't know. With the vr handicap that the new patch caused (performance drop and zoom issue) I feel I'm a bit disappointed of playing as much as I used to.

No offense, this is still a good game.