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HP Reverb Second Generation 2020


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I definitely use MSAA x2 as I much prefer it to FXAA, even though I get better performance with FXAA even x4.

With FXAA U can maintain 90 fps much more of the time, not all but certainly more.

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Ok so in my quest to get back to 90 Hz rather than 60 Hz, and knowing I did not want to lower graphics settings in the game, I set a custom resolution in Steam VR for IL-2. I set it to 84% which gives me 2056x2008 in each eye. Still respectable.

 

Loaded up my next PWCG Spit Mk IX campaign in Bodenplatte. Low altitude patrol - 5k ft - clouds light and scattered.

This may be the winner for me. I was able to maintain 90 FPS the vast bulk of the time, about the only time I saw it drop into reprojection briefly was when I was on runway taking off - right after takeoff it went up to 90 fps and stayed there for the most part. And really the image still looked sharp and great to me, obviously this lower res is still quite above the res of my Rift S. And this running 2x MSAA which I much prefer over FXAA. Had some great combat in this mission, where I downed 5 ea FW 190 A-8's.  And the image still looks fantastic, in fact not sure I can even perceive the difference in the lower resolution.

 

90 Hz just feels so much better to me than 60 Hz. So think I am just going to stick around this resolution and fly at 90 Hz. 

Nice to know with these high resolution headsets one can reduce resolution a little depending on system and still get great performance with nice graphics. Then as technology continues to improve grow back into the higher resolutions.

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6 hours ago, dburne said:

I definitely use MSAA x2 as I much prefer it to FXAA, even though I get better performance with FXAA even x4.

With FXAA U can maintain 90 fps much more of the time, not all but certainly more.

MSAA explodes in demand the higher your base resolution is. Its hit on performance scales accordingly with your total fillrate.

 

So on a 1080p, which is 2 Mio pixels, it's almost nothing.

On 1440p, which is 3.7 Mio pixels, it's getting to be a bit more. 

 

At 9.5 Million pixels, we're talking about other dimensions...

 

 

While MSAA is less performance hungry than SuperSampling, it doesn't allow for tiny steps like 120%. It's 2x or nothing. So in effect, since we can't drive 200% Supersampling with 19 Mio pixels anyway, I consider a 1.2 or 1.3 SuperSampling the better choice.

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

MSAA explodes in demand the higher your base resolution is. Its hit on performance scales accordingly with your total fillrate.

 

So on a 1080p, which is 2 Mio pixels, it's almost nothing.

On 1440p, which is 3.7 Mio pixels, it's getting to be a bit more. 

 

At 9.5 Million pixels, we're talking about other dimensions...

 

 

While MSAA is less performance hungry than SuperSampling, it doesn't allow for tiny steps like 120%. It's 2x or nothing. So in effect, since we can't drive 200% Supersampling with 19 Mio pixels anyway, I consider a 1.2 or 1.3 SuperSampling the better choice.

 

For whatever reason to me MSAA looks better than SS. Always has , so may be just how my eyes perceive it.

I am half blind also so that may play a little part.

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It's hardly comparable.

 

You enable MSAA 2x with SS 1x , and compare this to SS 2x, the latter will look much better - but cost way more performance. So it's really apples and oranges in some ways.

 

An issue with MSAA is that is softens up the contacts more. But an issue with SS is that contacts at range don't scale properly. So both make it harder to spot once you go past a certain strength.

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On 11/27/2020 at 10:36 PM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Well, day 2 of using my G2 and it's broken. Flashing screens and garbled images. 

Ah sht. 

Loose connection? Cable healthy? What happened running up to that?

 

Please let us know how support acts and how you'll solve it, crossing fingers for ya.

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On 11/26/2020 at 11:36 PM, dburne said:

Latest AMA update from HP on the Reverb G2.

There is mention in there on an apparent issue with X570 motherboards.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/k0uyb6/ama_with_hp/

 

My G2 arrives on tuesday 🤞, i have an x570 motherboard so getting a little twitchy now,  but at least after reading this post there are workarounds hopefully they will fix this issue soon. 

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Depends on which X570 MB you have.  Asus is having more problems than others.  

 

I'll definitely be in the market for a new face gasket.  Sounds like multiple companies will be making both exact replacements and modified (closer to the face, prescription, etc.) gaskets.  I'd love to get it closer to the face, but I'd rather do it with a commercial replacement than modding up some foam tape.  😉

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I'm not sure anyone can answer this question, but...

I'm expecting my ReverbG2 ( replacing my Pimax5K0 in early December, but like many others have had no luck purchasing a Nvidia 3070 or AMD 6800 graphics card and by the look of things may not be able to do so for a while ( perhaps a long while...) So I wonder if anyone knows if my old 1080card will suffice until that time with a sufficient FPS ( say about 30-40) to male it worthwhile to give the Reverb a try or and I say this with a great deal of sadness ,leave it in the box until such a time when the buying frenzy for the new uber-cards subsides ? ( may I add that I am happy that my Reverb will be among the second batch shipped as I watch those who got the first ones work out the kinks & find the best settings etc., while the rest of us patiently ( because we have to,,,) wait.)🙄

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@Blitzen I am very much enjoying my Reverb G2 on my aging EVGA Titan X Hybrid GPU. It only has DisplayPort 1.2 which means I can only run at 60Hz, which is fortunately an option I was able to set in Windows Mixed Reality. My only other VR headset was a Quest 1 that was limited to 72 Hz, and I don't notice the drop to 60 Hz in my G2, probably because the G2 much better clarity. With my current IL2 and SteamVR settings I am able to get a consistent 58-60 FPS on Combat Box and FinnishVirtualPilots (I find MP servers to be more demanding on my hardware than Quick Missions, and I rarely fly SP).

 

I am going to get an RTX 3000 series card as soon as I can find one, but my Titan X Hybrid is still a pleasure to fly in VR with the G2.

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3 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I'm not sure anyone can answer this question, but...

I'm expecting my ReverbG2 ( replacing my Pimax5K0 in early December, but like many others have had no luck purchasing a Nvidia 3070 or AMD 6800 graphics card and by the look of things may not be able to do so for a while ( perhaps a long while...) So I wonder if anyone knows if my old 1080card will suffice until that time with a sufficient FPS ( say about 30-40) to male it worthwhile to give the Reverb a try or and I say this with a great deal of sadness ,leave it in the box until such a time when the buying frenzy for the new uber-cards subsides ? ( may I add that I am happy that my Reverb will be among the second batch shipped as I watch those who got the first ones work out the kinks & find the best settings etc., while the rest of us patiently ( because we have to,,,) wait.)🙄

 

Happily, you can answer this question! SteamVR has all the tools you need. Method:

  • Note the total number of pixels in the SteamVR "resolution per eye" screen for your Pimax. Let's imagine it's 2787 x 3291 per eye.
  • Compare to the number of pixels needed for the Reverb G2. Users are reporting a SteamVR setting of 2160 x 2160 is quite acceptable.
  • Adjust the resolution slider in SteamVR to be closer to the Reverb total pixels. Maybe 1990 x 2350 pixels per eye.
  • Set up your Pimax to give a frame rate that you think is acceptable, at graphics options that are acceptable on your 1080.

Basically you are running your Pimax at the same total pixel count as the Reverb G2. This will tell you if your rig can power the G2 at a speed that is acceptable to you. Remember that you can use 45hz interpolated mode to get to 90, or you can set the G2 to 60hz mode. Some pilots are fine with the 60hz mode, others don't like it.

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I had no problem running in 60 Hz mode maintaining 60 fps the whole time.

However it just felt off to me, hard to explain I could just feel the difference in the lower refresh, and 90 Hz just feels better to me.

 

Nice thing with the Reverb G2 you can also adjust resolution down from native a little to help, and still have a great resolution.

So I elected to lower some to try and maintain 90 fps more of the time.

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14 hours ago, dburne said:

However it just felt off to me, hard to explain I could just feel the difference in the lower refresh, and 90 Hz just feels better to me.

 

I tried running it at 60hz but the white flicker was way too intrusive. It felt like I was sitting in a room with a malfunctioning fluorescent neon light.

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15 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

Happily, you can answer this question! SteamVR has all the tools you need. Method:

  • Note the total number of pixels in the SteamVR "resolution per eye" screen for your Pimax. Let's imagine it's 2787 x 3291 per eye.
  • Compare to the number of pixels needed for the Reverb G2. Users are reporting a SteamVR setting of 2160 x 2160 is quite acceptable.
  • Adjust the resolution slider in SteamVR to be closer to the Reverb total pixels. Maybe 1990 x 2350 pixels per eye.
  • Set up your Pimax to give a frame rate that you think is acceptable, at graphics options that are acceptable on your 1080.

Basically you are running your Pimax at the same total pixel count as the Reverb G2. This will tell you if your rig can power the G2 at a speed that is acceptable to you. Remember that you can use 45hz interpolated mode to get to 90, or you can set the G2 to 60hz mode. Some pilots are fine with the 60hz mode, others don't like it.

Alonzo-Many thanks for your sage advice!

For some reason or another I had my slider resolution slider waaaaaay up and so slid it down to your suggested setting ( which for me was almost all the way to the left.) This alone with my Pimax rig gave a noticeable difference in game....in a good way.Resolution was perhaps 5-10% better for objects & landscape resolution. FPS was a bit better at about 30-40 during game play, which not great but good enough .  SDE seemed a bit less noticeable as well but as you know this is hard to really quantify this...it could be a placebo effect but what appears better maybe is better? So many thanks every little bit helps!

Now may I ask ( because I’m not sure...) does this mean I should look forward to using the Reverb G2 with what I’ve got as long as I can live with 30-40 FPS? I hope so because it may be a while before supply catches up demand for new more reasonably priced graphic cards....🙄

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4 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Alonzo-Many thanks for your sage advice!

For some reason or another I had my slider resolution slider waaaaaay up and so slid it down to your suggested setting ( which for me was almost all the way to the left.) This alone with my Pimax rig gave a noticeable difference in game....in a good way.Resolution was perhaps 5-10% better for objects & landscape resolution. FPS was a bit better at about 30-40 during game play, which not great but good enough .  SDE seemed a bit less noticeable as well but as you know this is hard to really quantify this...it could be a placebo effect but what appears better maybe is better? So many thanks every little bit helps!

Now may I ask ( because I’m not sure...) does this mean I should look forward to using the Reverb G2 with what I’ve got as long as I can live with 30-40 FPS? I hope so because it may be a while before supply catches up demand for new more reasonably priced graphic cards....🙄

 

Hmm, sounds strange. I'll be very honest: I have seen really bad advice given on these forums regarding VR settings and Pimax in particular, so it may be that you followed some of that advice and got into a weird place with your settings. When I had an Artisan, I used these settings:

  • NVidia control panel all default, except "Prefer maximum power"
  • PiTool Normal FOV, 1.0 quality, 120hz mode, brainwarp/smoothing off, parallel projection off (I think PP off is still good - the developers made a zoom fix)
  • SteamVR vertical pixels approx 2000
  • In-game settings Balanced, 100km distance, sharp landscape, 3x landscape distance, shadows off, Sharpen on, HDR/SSAO off, dynamic resolution OFF

I was surprised but in my own usage of the headset, I preferred 120hz mode but with the smoothing off. That felt better than 72 or 90 but it's personal preference. If you don't mind a bit of ghosting, you could also try 72hz mode with smoothing on, and the game will run at 36 FPS and frame-double to 72. (Or you can try 90hz mode and use doubling from 45).

 

The fact that you saw an improvement in objects/resolution when you decreased the SteamVR slider makes me think you had dynamic resolution set to 'on' in game. What that does is decrease the render resolution when your computer isn't hitting the frame rate target. Unfortunately it just looks like total crap. You're better off decreasing the SteamVR slider instead until you get a frame rate that works for you.

 

The other mistake a lot of people make is to be subjective about their frame rate. "Seems much better!" No! Use science! Chili has a good benchmarking thread, or you can make your own benchmark. I made a short flight recording of a fight over a town, with me shooting down a bandit and then doing some silly flying near the deck. Probably a worst-case performance situation. Then, I used FRAPS to show me the average FPS when I play back that flight recording (with the headset sitting on my chair, recentered, and not moving during the playback). Now I know, for example, that I can still hit 80 FPS for my Valve Index with the settings I have chosen.

 

The crux of your question, though, is "can I look forward to my Reverb G2 with my current hardware?" I would answer that as "if you can tune your settings so you are happy with your Artisan with about 2000 vertical pixels in SteamVR, you will be happy with the Reverb G2." It's a very high resolution headset so you don't need to super-sample it like a lot of other headsets, so in a weird way the requirements are actually reduced for the G2 (and apparently the 8KX -- it looks great with zero supersample).

 

The other thing is with GPUs, it is probably worth back-ordering a GPU if you really want it. I back-ordered a 3080 like six weeks ago and thought it was never going to materialize, and had decided to go with a 6800XT instead (which also cannot be bought!). But then the 3080 arrived so I bought it and sold off my old card. So if you want a new GPU you may find the back-order queues move faster than you fear, and you could get a card this side of Christmas.

 

Again, though, IL2 in VR is very CPU dependent. So a GPU upgrade might get you less than you think. To check that you need to reduce that SteamVR slider even more (to like 1500 vertical pixels) to 'simulate' having a more powerful GPU. Then you can see if your rig can supply frames to the card fast enough. I run my Index at 80hz even though I could theoretically do 90 because every little bit of help you can give the CPU is important in this game.

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3 hours ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

I tried running it at 60hz but the white flicker was way too intrusive. It felt like I was sitting in a room with a malfunctioning fluorescent neon light.

Hello. First time poster on the forum. Great place to learn all things IL-2.

I also have a G2 headset and I agree that running on 60Hz does not feel like a good option. I am willing to sacrifice quite a bit of picture quality to avoid that flickering.

 

Since I just bought IL-2 during the Steam sale I am fiddling around with the setting to try and find a good compromise. I thought that my 3090 would walk all over this "older" graphics engine, but adding clouds seems to be very taxing on the system. I guess my 3700x will be the next component to upgrade.

 

Overall I am still very happy with the experience though. This is my first try with a flight sim in VR and it is pretty amazing just flying around.  

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12 minutes ago, espn74 said:

Hello. First time poster on the forum. Great place to learn all things IL-2.

I also have a G2 headset and I agree that running on 60Hz does not feel like a good option. I am willing to sacrifice quite a bit of picture quality to avoid that flickering.

 

Since I just bought IL-2 during the Steam sale I am fiddling around with the setting to try and find a good compromise. I thought that my 3090 would walk all over this "older" graphics engine, but adding clouds seems to be very taxing on the system. I guess my 3700x will be the next component to upgrade.

 

Overall I am still very happy with the experience though. This is my first try with a flight sim in VR and it is pretty amazing just flying around.  

 

 

:good:

 

Welcome aboard!!

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53 minutes ago, espn74 said:

I thought that my 3090 would walk all over this "older" graphics engine, but adding clouds seems to be very taxing on the system. I guess my 3700x will be the next component to upgrade.

 

 

check out this topic, the last 2 pages, it's got some pretty nice info on the AMD upgrades and how it impacts the IL2 fps' in VR.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

check out this topic, the last 2 pages, it's got some pretty nice info on the AMD upgrades and how it impacts the IL2 fps' in VR.

 

 

Thank you. It looks like the Zen3 is a good match for IL-2. Too bad the 3090 was easy to get hold of in comparison...

 

 

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Agreed, I found seeing my keyboard and peripherals easier with my Quest 1. Someone else shared this mod video earlier in this thread, I think:

 


Edit: He posted this improved solution, which I may try:

 

 

Edited by Charlo-VR
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On 11/29/2020 at 12:50 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Ah sht. 

Loose connection? Cable healthy? What happened running up to that?

 

Please let us know how support acts and how you'll solve it, crossing fingers for ya.

 

I thought at first but I was no harder on the cable then my Index. First it worked in 90hz then I switched it to 60hz to test. A day later it wouldn't switch back into 90hz. At this point I thought it was a software bug. After much troubleshooting for no reason really it started working at 90hz and then shortly after one eye went dead and the working eye was garbled. Switched it back to 60hz and the screens completely stopped working. HP has had it for a week now, they were quick to send a return box. 

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1 hour ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

 

I thought at first but I was no harder on the cable then my Index. First it worked in 90hz then I switched it to 60hz to test. A day later it wouldn't switch back into 90hz. At this point I thought it was a software bug. After much troubleshooting for no reason really it started working at 90hz and then shortly after one eye went dead and the working eye was garbled. Switched it back to 60hz and the screens completely stopped working. HP has had it for a week now, they were quick to send a return box. 

Someone stated going above 86% volume cause too much power draw which might cause damage to the displays along with resistance of cable lenght.....undervoltage!

Once i recieve mine unit i'll settle it to 70%volume just in case.

So many issues and faulty units reported that it scares me.

Mine should arrive in january which could be a good thing at the end, i hope HP is removing flaws trough production.

Also there was a reddit thread stating UK batches are being shipped back to HP factory in order to remove G2 flaws!

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I had seen that as well, and also there was information about the HDaudio drivers by Nvidia being incompatible and the reason for the USB-c issues. I'll know better later once I can test it tonight.

 

I've already done both "fixes".

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55 minutes ago, dburne said:

I did the fix for the virtual displays but really see no difference on my end.

As far as the HD Audio I do not install that with my display drivers.

Others reported that too, seems it was OP's case only.

Others by default when switching from DV load drops to 3%, when using it it goes up to 30-40%

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It really does seem like there are a lot of software issues with the G2 and WMR. "Please render 19 million pixels to achieve full sweet-spot on your device." Uh, what? "Disable the 3 extra virtual desktops that eat 40% of your GPU." Er, exqueeze me?

 

Hopefully these are all just teething problems. HP marketing said a lot of stuff about collaborating with Valve to ensure close WMR/Steam integration, at the moment it looks like a lot of hot air.

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3 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

It really does seem like there are a lot of software issues with the G2 and WMR. "Please render 19 million pixels to achieve full sweet-spot on your device." Uh, what? "Disable the 3 extra virtual desktops that eat 40% of your GPU." Er, exqueeze me?

 

Hopefully these are all just teething problems. HP marketing said a lot of stuff about collaborating with Valve to ensure close WMR/Steam integration, at the moment it looks like a lot of hot air.

 

 

I think the three extra virtual desktop thing is just smoke and mirrors, I tried it and made no difference.

But mine was already showing a default value of 0.

 

I will say though been flying PWCG all day at full 100% resolution in the G2 and it is gorgeous, and Motion Smoothing seems to be doing a good job.

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

I will say though been flying PWCG all day at full 100% resolution in the G2 and it is gorgeous, and Motion Smoothing seems to be doing a good job.

 

Hmmm. I get good performance in multiplayer with my Index 80hz and 8086K @ 5.1ghz, 3080 graphics card, but I don't consider 45hz to be acceptable for warbird dogfights at close ranges, I find the ghosting pretty bad. For the jet simulator I play instead at 60hz frame doubled to 120, not least because the CPU takes a beating and sometimes even exceeds 16ms per frame (=60hz). I guess the only option is to get the best stuff I can reasonably afford, and sell it off if I don't think it's good enough. I see me wasting money if I go Index to Reverb and back to a (hypothetical) Index G2, though.

 

Argh. Variable refresh VR displays when? Maybe that's not a good idea, I dunno.

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11 hours ago, dburne said:

I will say though been flying PWCG all day at full 100% resolution in the G2 and it is gorgeous

 

So then you say that running at 100% the image is better than at 50%? at the center? at the edges? or overall?

I assume that if you run at 100% you will not need MSAA at all (so you unload GPU). Maybe just 2xFXAA for some edges.

 

FYI, I was running the Index at 52%SS (1452x1612) which is almost exactly the same resolution that the Index physical display, and the image quality was really worse than at 100%.

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10 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

So then you say that running at 100% the image is better than at 50%? at the center? at the edges? or overall?

I assume that if you run at 100% you will not need MSAA at all (so you unload GPU). Maybe just 2xFXAA for some edges.

 

FYI, I was running the Index at 52%SS (1452x1612) which is almost exactly the same resolution that the Index physical display, and the image quality was really worse than at 100%.

 

I tried to get the G2 running at 100% RR with a RTX3070. It was possible to have "high" settings with motion smoothing on, shadows off and cloud quality medium. I used a quick mission with heavy clouds, so I need more testing of different situations the next days.

 

I turned off MSAA and didn't really see a difference compared to 2x. So in my opinion FXAA should be enough to reduce jagged edges/lines.

 

My main problem with running 50% RR are the details of distant objects, e.g.

 aircraft more than 500m away get very pixelated. The ground gets very blurry from altitude so it's hard to see houses and vehicles.

 

For the cockpit itself I don't see much difference (which might be caused by the "low" texture resolution), also not for close objects (aircraft 200m away).

 

I also wouldn't say it has big impact on sweet spot, but it's my first VR so I'm not qualified to judge that.

Overal I'm pleased with the sweet spot and most of the time I might not have the ideal IPD setting or headset placement (how high or low it is sitting). 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

So then you say that running at 100% the image is better than at 50%? at the center? at the edges? or overall?

I assume that if you run at 100% you will not need MSAA at all (so you unload GPU). Maybe just 2xFXAA for some edges.

 

FYI, I was running the Index at 52%SS (1452x1612) which is almost exactly the same resolution that the Index physical display, and the image quality was really worse than at 100%.

 

I would say overall. And no, I have turned off MSAA. Running mostly at 45 fps but the motion smoothing seems to be doing a very good job.

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Do we know if the IL2 / SteamVR / WMR (etc) tools apply a "render mask" ?

 

Basically, if you render a rectangle and then map it into the VR screens, many pixels will be completely ignored. Here, the pixels in green will not be used at all by the VR headset:

 

Demo.jpg

 

These images look to me like they've already been warped, pre-warp the green is an even larger portion of the image. If the mask is set correctly, the game can skip those pixels, saving quite a lot of performance.

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